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Update on Uvalde Police Response

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A New York Times examination of the police response, based on dozens of interviews with law enforcement officials, children who survived, parents who were witnesses outside and experts on policing, found that breakdowns in communication and tactical decisions that were out of step with years of police preparations for school shootings may have contributed to additional deaths, and certainly delayed critical medical attention to the wounded.

A tactical team led by Border Patrol officers ultimately ignored orders not to breach the classroom, interviews revealed, after a 10-year-old girl inside the classroom warned 911 dispatchers that one of the two teachers in the room was in urgent need of medical attention.

The report that the incident commander at least initially had no police radio emerges as the latest important detail in what has been a shifting official account of the police response that has at times proved to be inaccurate on key points about the May 24 shooting.

Spokesmen for the Texas Rangers and the U.S. Justice Department, the two agencies now investigating the response, have said they would not be able to reach final conclusions until all interviews had been conducted and all available video and other evidence had been reviewed.

Officers who arrived at the scene, coming from at least 14 agencies, did not go into the classrooms as sporadic gunfire could be heard inside, nor after 911 calls began arriving from children inside.

“There is a lot of bodies,” a 10-year-old student, Khloie Torres, quietly told a 911 dispatcher at 12:10 p.m. — 37 minutes after the gunman began shooting inside the classrooms — according to a review of a transcript of the call. “I don’t want to die, my teacher is dead, my teacher is dead, please send help, send help for my teacher, she is shot but still alive.”

She stayed on the line for about 17 minutes. Around 11 minutes into the call, the sound of gunfire could be heard.

The officers who finally breached the locked classrooms with a janitor’s key were not a formal tactical unit, according to a person briefed on the response. The officers, including specially trained Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and a sheriff’s deputy, formed an ad hoc group on their own and gathered in the hallway outside the classroom, a tense space where they said there appeared to be no chain of command.

They were done waiting for permission, one of them said, according to the person, before they moved toward the classroom where the gunman waited. They continued even after one of them heard a command crackling in his earpiece: Do not breach. (Continued)
 
They entered the room and killed the gunman.

The actions by Chief Arredondo and the array of officers he suddenly directed — which grew to number more than 140, from local, state and federal agencies, including state troopers, sheriff’s deputies, constables and game wardens — are now the subject of overlapping investigations by the Texas Rangers, the Justice Department and the local district attorney’s office.

Chief Arredondo did not respond to requests for comment. Neither did the chief of the Uvalde Police Department, Daniel Rodriguez, or the county sheriff, Ruben Nolasco. The Texas Department of Public Safety, which is overseeing the Rangers’ investigation and had a large presence of state police at the scene, referred questions to the district attorney’s office, which did not comment.

“I think they’re unfair to accuse anybody until we know all the facts,” said Uvalde County’s top executive, Bill Mitchell. “We have agencies coming out and saying there were mistakes. How do we know, days after, what mistakes?”

The fact that control of such a complex and prolonged scene of violence fell to the head of a police force with six members who are employed by the local school board seemed unusual in the aftermath of the tragedy. But it was in keeping with the way such events are expected to be handled in their early stages, according to policing experts and the leaders of school district police departments around Texas.

In cases where a shooting drags on, and more experienced departments establish themselves at the scene, control may sometimes be handed over to a larger department. That did not happen in Uvalde, officials have said.

School district police departments have jurisdiction over school campuses — in Uvalde, there are eight — as well as anywhere that school buses travel.

“If we should have a situation like that, we would go in, handle the situation, stop the kill, and at that point we would probably look to the state or the feds to assist us with the forensics,” said Chief Solomon Cook of the Humble Independent School District Police Department, in the suburbs of Houston.

But while the presence of a school district police chief atop the hierarchy at Robb Elementary was not out of the ordinary, other elements of the response in Uvalde struck Chief Cook as concerning. One was the need to use a janitor’s keys to ultimately gain entry to the classrooms. “All my people carry keys,” said Chief Cook, who is president of the state’s association for school district police chiefs.

Another was the uncertainty about whether Chief Arredondo had been receiving messages from police dispatchers about the children still in the classrooms pleading for help.

“We have direct communication with the P.D. dispatch, and we’re about the size of Uvalde,” said Chief Bill Avera, who runs a force of four school district officers, including himself, that covers eight campuses in Jacksonville, Texas.

A review of the response in Uvalde shows that the school acted almost immediately after the gunman hopped a fence and approached Robb Elementary after crashing a pickup truck and firing shots outside.

Adam Pennington, an 8-year-old student, was in the front office when the school received what appeared to be the first alert. “A phone call came in and said a man jumped the fence holding a gun,” said Adam, who said he hurried to shelter under a table.

An employee on the campus used a cellphone to open a district security app, selecting a red “lockdown” button and a second button warning that there was an active shooter, according to David Rogers, the chief marketing officer for Raptor Technologies, the company that provides the security app.

That warning tool was part of an extensive effort to enhance security in the Uvalde school district, which also included two-way radios for “key staff,” two new school district police officers and requirements that all classroom doors remain locked.

But Chief Arredondo had no police radio when he arrived, according to the latest information gathered in the investigation, and the door to the classroom where most of the killing occurred, Room 112, was unlocked when the gunman arrived.

The lockdown alert was sent at 26 seconds past 11:32 a.m., about two minutes after the initial 911 call from outside the school. It triggered an immediate mass distribution of emails, text messages and notifications that included blaring alarms sent to the cellphones of other school employees, Mr. Rogers said.

Less than a minute later, the gunman was already inside the school.

Khloie Torres had been watching a movie with her fourth-grade classmates in Room 112 when her teacher, Irma Garcia, told the class to go into lockdown. Ms. Garcia turned off the movie, and then rushed toward the classroom door to lock it. But she struggled to find the right key for the door. Gunfire could be heard in the hallways.

Ms. Garcia finally got hold of the right key, but the gunman was already there. “He grabbed the door, and he opened it,” Khloie said. Ms. Garcia tried to protect her students. The gunman began firing.
Khloie hid under a table, listening to more gunshots. “You’ll die,” the gunman said to the room.
He shot one of Khloie’s best friends, Amerie Jo Garza, and the other teacher in the class, Eva Mireles. Then the gunman said “Good night,” Khloie said, and began firing at students across the classroom.

One child shouted, “I’m shot,” catching the attention of the gunman. He came back to the spot where the child was lying and shot the student again, killing him, Khloie said.

Chief Arredondo arrived at 11:35 a.m., as the first officers began moving into the hallway outside the classroom door. Two minutes later, a lieutenant and a sergeant from the Uvalde Police Department approached the door, and were grazed by bullets.

Shortly after that, Chief Arredondo placed a phone call from the scene, reaching a police department landline. He described the situation and requested a radio, a rifle and a contingent of heavily armed officers, according to the law enforcement official familiar with the initial response, who described it on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to publicly disclose the details.

The decision to establish a perimeter outside the classroom, a little over five minutes after the shooting began, shifted the police response from one in which every officer would try to confront the gunman as fast as possible to one where officers treated the gunman as barricaded and no longer killing. Instead of storming the classroom, a decision was made to deploy a negotiator and to muster a more heavily armed and shielded tactical entry force.

“They made a poor decision, defining that as a hostage-barricade situation,” said Bill Francis, a former F.B.I. agent who was a senior leader on the bureau’s hostage rescue team for 17 years. “The longer you delay in finding and eliminating that threat, the longer he has to continue to kill other victims.”

Inside, the gunman moved between the two adjoining classrooms. After he left her room, Khloie said, she called out quietly: “Is anybody OK? Is anybody hurt?”

“Yeah,” one classmate replied.

“Just be quiet, so he doesn’t come back in here,” Khloie remembered responding. Another child asked for help getting Ms. Garcia’s body off her.
 
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A boy in her class, Khloie said, was worried that the gunman would find them. “He won’t find us,” she told him.
Shortly after noon, nearly half an hour after the first police officers had arrived, Khloie began dialing 911. She said she called over and over again.

By then, the first tactical teams had arrived, along with officers carrying long guns. Scores of other officers were outside the school, keeping frantic parents away and starting to remove children from other classrooms, pulling some through windows. In video taken outside the school, Border Patrol agents could be seen donning specialized equipment at around 12:15 p.m.


Parents were seen pleading with officers outside the Uvalde, Texas, elementary school where a gunman killed 19 students and two teachers while he remained inside for more than an hour.

Six minutes later, several shots were heard, the sound coming from inside the classroom.
Mayor Don McLaughlin of Uvalde said in an interview with CNN on Thursday that the gunman did not answer his telephone when a negotiator tried to call him.

In the hallway outside the classrooms, a throng of heavily armed law enforcement officers anxiously awaited instructions. But frustrations were growing, particularly among members of a Border Patrol tactical unit, according to the person who was briefed on the team’s response.

“No one entity or individual seemed to have control of the scene,” the person said. “It was chaos.”
The sense of frustration among tactical team members was corroborated by two officials familiar with their debriefing.

After more than an hour, the ad hoc group of officers who had arrived ready to attack the gunman was growing impatient, and decided to move in.

One of the members — equipped with an earpiece and small microphone — quietly announced over the radio that the group was preparing to go into the classrooms. At that point a voice responded, telling them not to breach the doors.
They ignored the directive.

As the agents entered, the gunman appeared to be ready for them, the person said. He fired. They fired back, with at least one bullet striking him in the head. A bullet fragment also grazed the head of one of the Border Patrol agents.


As soon as the agents announced over the radio that the gunman had been killed, attention turned to treating the wounded. The agents helped set up a triage system, as more officers and emergency medical workers descended on the classrooms, trying to stabilize the children who had been shot but were still alive. At one point during the siege, one of the two children who called 911 had reported that at least eight or nine of the children in the two classrooms were still alive.

Khloie and her surviving classmates were rushed from the classroom. The bodies of 19 children were recovered, along with those of the two teachers. Seventeen people, including a third teacher, were wounded.

“I don’t understand why somebody did not go in,” said Khloie’s mother, Jamie Torres. Children and teachers would have still been shot, she said, “but it would have been way less than 21.”


 
Very poor overall police response, but apparently NOT the case where all of the cops staged in the hallway were cowards...as so many initially declared...without a clear understanding of the facts.

Command screwed up big time...head(s) should roll there, careers for the fumblers should come to a screeching halt, at a minomum. But much of the criticism of ALL of the LEO presence appears now to be misplaced...as some of us theorized early on.

Not that any of the ACAB bomb throwers will surface to eat their strongly worded critiques.
 
Very poor overall police response, but apparently NOT the case where all of the cops staged in the hallway were cowards...as so many initially declared...without a clear understanding of the facts.

Command screwed up big time...head(s) should roll there, careers for the fumblers should come to a screeching halt, at a minomum. But much of the criticism of ALL of the LEO presence appears now to be misplaced...as some of us theorized early on.

Not that any of the ACAB bomb throwers will surface to eat their strongly worded critiques.
I’m not giving them a pass for hanging in the hallway waiting orders from absent leaders.
 
What was the point of having a negotiator if there was no communication with the officer in charge?
 
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This whole story is going to be so damn amended and changed that in a month NO ONE will be able to tell what the phuque happened at the school that day....and that is just the way those responsible and those in charge want it.
I can guarantee you one thing though........Guns and their accessibility by the public will NOT be considered an issue. This is just one more act in the national disgrace we call The Second Amendment. More school murders are on the horizon.......a great argument for no "year 'round" schooling.....give the LEOs 3 months to refresh their tactics...and states more time to finance their mental health programs!
 
I’m not giving them a pass for hanging in the hallway waiting orders from absent leaders.
Oh for crying out loud, police forces, much like military units operate, and NEED to operate, with a central command(er). Otherwise, there will be even more potential confusion and loss of life in a deadly situation.

The leader(s) weren't absent anyway and they were actually giving orders. Orders that were faulty, but orders that the LEO's were under obligation to adhere to.

Yes, the leader(s) were incompetent and should be promptly removed from a command that they obviously, in retrospect, didn’t have the stones to execute per their training and preparation.

The passage of time and probably a growing awareness that the leader(s) were incompetent led some of the LEOs to take matters into their own hands, which under the circumstances was very appropriate. But if everyone does their own thing in a future similar scenario and more mayhem ensues as a result, something tells me you will be sure to critique that effort too.

Put the heat on the faulty party, not on everyone.
 
Oh for crying out loud, police forces, much like military units operate, and NEED to operate, with a central command(er). Otherwise, there will be even more potential confusion and loss of life in a deadly situation.

The leader(s) weren't absent anyway and they were actually giving orders. Orders that were faulty, but orders that the LEO's were under obligation to adhere to.

Yes, the leader(s) were incompetent and should be promptly removed from a command that they obviously, in retrospect, didn’t have the stones to execute per their training and preparation.

The passage of time and probably a growing awareness that the leader(s) were incompetent led some of the LEOs to take matters into their own hands, which under the circumstances was very appropriate. But if everyone does their own thing in a future similar scenario and more mayhem ensues as a result, something tells me you will be sure to critique that effort too.

Put the heat on the faulty party, not on everyone.
For crying out loud, they could hear the GD shots. They should be fired and leadership criminally charged.
 
Oh for crying out loud, police forces, much like military units operate, and NEED to operate, with a central command(er). Otherwise, there will be even more potential confusion and loss of life in a deadly situation.

The leader(s) weren't absent anyway and they were actually giving orders. Orders that were faulty, but orders that the LEO's were under obligation to adhere to.

Yes, the leader(s) were incompetent and should be promptly removed from a command that they obviously, in retrospect, didn’t have the stones to execute per their training and preparation.

The passage of time and probably a growing awareness that the leader(s) were incompetent led some of the LEOs to take matters into their own hands, which under the circumstances was very appropriate. But if everyone does their own thing in a future similar scenario and more mayhem ensues as a result, something tells me you will be sure to critique that effort too.

Put the heat on the faulty party, not on everyone.
And you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The training is to go get the shooter, not sit around and wait for orders. I can probably give the Border Patrol and Game Warden guys a break because they probably have not had the same training, but anyone, I mean ANYONE in the Uvalde School District Police Force knew what they were supposed to do.

The training is clear: Time is of the essence. The “first priority is to move in and confront the attacker.”

“A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field."


 
That's WHY they defied orders and breeched the room. Leaders should be fired, yes. The others, not at all.
It's sad it took 40 mins for 4 LEO's to realize the CO's were horrifically wrong. Falling back on I was just following orders isn't much of an excuse here. Those gun shots and screams if children dying is going to haunt them. Going to need some serious PTSD counseling.
 
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And you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The training is to go get the shooter, not sit around and wait for orders. I can probably give the Border Patrol and Game Warden guys a break because they probably have not had the same training, but anyone, I mean ANYONE in the Uvalde School District Police Force knew what they were supposed to do.

The training is clear: Time is of the essence. The “first priority is to move in and confront the attacker.”

“A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field."


You are the one that doesn't know what you are talking about...you are getting geeked up by reacting to Tweets...not necessarily facts.

Command should have instructed to breech, yes. But they didn’t. They were still commanding NOT to breech when one or more brave officers defied orders and did breech.

The training and preparation is always predicated on a command and control, follow orders basis. It has to be that way, otherwise chaos would reign. The failure wasn't with the 19 officers gathered in the hallway, it was with the leadership.

What type of zoo could you potentially have if 19 officers were all doing their own thing, apart from any direction? Sheer madness.
 
Oh for crying out loud, police forces, much like military units operate, and NEED to operate, with a central command(er). Otherwise, there will be even more potential confusion and loss of life in a deadly situation.

The leader(s) weren't absent anyway and they were actually giving orders. Orders that were faulty, but orders that the LEO's were under obligation to adhere to.

Yes, the leader(s) were incompetent and should be promptly removed from a command that they obviously, in retrospect, didn’t have the stones to execute per their training and preparation.

The passage of time and probably a growing awareness that the leader(s) were incompetent led some of the LEOs to take matters into their own hands, which under the circumstances was very appropriate. But if everyone does their own thing in a future similar scenario and more mayhem ensues as a result, something tells me you will be sure to critique that effort too.

Put the heat on the faulty party, not on everyone.

This is utter and complete BS. Every police officer in this country has a standing order to go towards and neutralize an active shooter and not to wait for backup. Not one single officer there can use the excuse that they sat on their ass and hid because they were given a command to cower. Multiple police experts have stated since the shooting that officers on the scene had an obligation to disobey such an order, if indeed it was ever actually given. If you want to grant these cops that excuse, there were multiple officers at the scene before the chief arrived. They chose to take cover like all the others.
 
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Also, how does anyone buy the nonsense put out by Texas authorities? First that the chief gives an order for every officer to stand down. Second, that he didn't know that the kids were still calling 911 almost an hour later because he didn't have a radio.

How does his order to stand down reach the officers if he doesn't have a radio? Do none of the many officers there with radios not walk over to him and tell him that there are still kids inside? Is the chief not within earshot of an officer with a radio? All of this is contrived BS to feed to a brainwashed public that is desperate for a way to forgive their so called heroes in blue. They'd rather resume the fantasy that the policeman is your friend than face the truth.
 
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You are the one that doesn't know what you are talking about...you are getting geeked up by reacting to Tweets...not necessarily facts.
What are you even talking about? Are you going out of your way to prove that you're a moron?

It's a twitter thread of an NY Times reporter going through the guidelines provided to officers of the Uvalde School District (and surrounding jurisdictions) directly from an "active shooter" training day from two months ago, one of two such training sessions in the last year.

"Tweets...not necessarily facts"...... You're trying to claim these guidelines aren't real?
 
The delay between when the gunman entered and when cops finally reacted is on the record.

Anyone defending local police for their inaction is ignoring the obvious, imo.

Some posters in this thread must have a relative in law enforcement.
 
That's WHY they defied orders and breeched the room. Leaders should be fired, yes. The others, not at all.
Every UCISD officer on the scene should be fired. You don't wait for orders to do your damn job. Their own training was to confront a gunman immediately. They stood out in the hallway and could hear him firing shots and did nothing. The Uvalde school district police NEVER did their damn jobs. Not one of them. It was the Border Patrol agents and a county deputy who finally said "f**k this", ignored a direct order, and killed the shooter. The ONLY ones who did their jobs.

Khloie Torres, a terrified 10 year old, was braver than every officer who stood in that hallway for an hour and did nothing.
 
They entered the room and killed the gunman.

The actions by Chief Arredondo and the array of officers he suddenly directed — which grew to number more than 140, from local, state and federal agencies, including state troopers, sheriff’s deputies, constables and game wardens — are now the subject of overlapping investigations by the Texas Rangers, the Justice Department and the local district attorney’s office.

Chief Arredondo did not respond to requests for comment. Neither did the chief of the Uvalde Police Department, Daniel Rodriguez, or the county sheriff, Ruben Nolasco. The Texas Department of Public Safety, which is overseeing the Rangers’ investigation and had a large presence of state police at the scene, referred questions to the district attorney’s office, which did not comment.

“I think they’re unfair to accuse anybody until we know all the facts,” said Uvalde County’s top executive, Bill Mitchell. “We have agencies coming out and saying there were mistakes. How do we know, days after, what mistakes?”

The fact that control of such a complex and prolonged scene of violence fell to the head of a police force with six members who are employed by the local school board seemed unusual in the aftermath of the tragedy. But it was in keeping with the way such events are expected to be handled in their early stages, according to policing experts and the leaders of school district police departments around Texas.

In cases where a shooting drags on, and more experienced departments establish themselves at the scene, control may sometimes be handed over to a larger department. That did not happen in Uvalde, officials have said.

School district police departments have jurisdiction over school campuses — in Uvalde, there are eight — as well as anywhere that school buses travel.

“If we should have a situation like that, we would go in, handle the situation, stop the kill, and at that point we would probably look to the state or the feds to assist us with the forensics,” said Chief Solomon Cook of the Humble Independent School District Police Department, in the suburbs of Houston.

But while the presence of a school district police chief atop the hierarchy at Robb Elementary was not out of the ordinary, other elements of the response in Uvalde struck Chief Cook as concerning. One was the need to use a janitor’s keys to ultimately gain entry to the classrooms. “All my people carry keys,” said Chief Cook, who is president of the state’s association for school district police chiefs.

Another was the uncertainty about whether Chief Arredondo had been receiving messages from police dispatchers about the children still in the classrooms pleading for help.

“We have direct communication with the P.D. dispatch, and we’re about the size of Uvalde,” said Chief Bill Avera, who runs a force of four school district officers, including himself, that covers eight campuses in Jacksonville, Texas.

A review of the response in Uvalde shows that the school acted almost immediately after the gunman hopped a fence and approached Robb Elementary after crashing a pickup truck and firing shots outside.

Adam Pennington, an 8-year-old student, was in the front office when the school received what appeared to be the first alert. “A phone call came in and said a man jumped the fence holding a gun,” said Adam, who said he hurried to shelter under a table.

An employee on the campus used a cellphone to open a district security app, selecting a red “lockdown” button and a second button warning that there was an active shooter, according to David Rogers, the chief marketing officer for Raptor Technologies, the company that provides the security app.

That warning tool was part of an extensive effort to enhance security in the Uvalde school district, which also included two-way radios for “key staff,” two new school district police officers and requirements that all classroom doors remain locked.

But Chief Arredondo had no police radio when he arrived, according to the latest information gathered in the investigation, and the door to the classroom where most of the killing occurred, Room 112, was unlocked when the gunman arrived.

The lockdown alert was sent at 26 seconds past 11:32 a.m., about two minutes after the initial 911 call from outside the school. It triggered an immediate mass distribution of emails, text messages and notifications that included blaring alarms sent to the cellphones of other school employees, Mr. Rogers said.

Less than a minute later, the gunman was already inside the school.

Khloie Torres had been watching a movie with her fourth-grade classmates in Room 112 when her teacher, Irma Garcia, told the class to go into lockdown. Ms. Garcia turned off the movie, and then rushed toward the classroom door to lock it. But she struggled to find the right key for the door. Gunfire could be heard in the hallways.

Ms. Garcia finally got hold of the right key, but the gunman was already there. “He grabbed the door, and he opened it,” Khloie said. Ms. Garcia tried to protect her students. The gunman began firing.
Khloie hid under a table, listening to more gunshots. “You’ll die,” the gunman said to the room.
He shot one of Khloie’s best friends, Amerie Jo Garza, and the other teacher in the class, Eva Mireles. Then the gunman said “Good night,” Khloie said, and began firing at students across the classroom.

One child shouted, “I’m shot,” catching the attention of the gunman. He came back to the spot where the child was lying and shot the student again, killing him, Khloie said.

Chief Arredondo arrived at 11:35 a.m., as the first officers began moving into the hallway outside the classroom door. Two minutes later, a lieutenant and a sergeant from the Uvalde Police Department approached the door, and were grazed by bullets.

Shortly after that, Chief Arredondo placed a phone call from the scene, reaching a police department landline. He described the situation and requested a radio, a rifle and a contingent of heavily armed officers, according to the law enforcement official familiar with the initial response, who described it on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to publicly disclose the details.

The decision to establish a perimeter outside the classroom, a little over five minutes after the shooting began, shifted the police response from one in which every officer would try to confront the gunman as fast as possible to one where officers treated the gunman as barricaded and no longer killing. Instead of storming the classroom, a decision was made to deploy a negotiator and to muster a more heavily armed and shielded tactical entry force.

“They made a poor decision, defining that as a hostage-barricade situation,” said Bill Francis, a former F.B.I. agent who was a senior leader on the bureau’s hostage rescue team for 17 years. “The longer you delay in finding and eliminating that threat, the longer he has to continue to kill other victims.”

Inside, the gunman moved between the two adjoining classrooms. After he left her room, Khloie said, she called out quietly: “Is anybody OK? Is anybody hurt?”

“Yeah,” one classmate replied.

“Just be quiet, so he doesn’t come back in here,” Khloie remembered responding. Another child asked for help getting Ms. Garcia’s body off her.
Arredondo should have nothing to worry about. tic

How could he be nominated to the city council, a week after this debacle happened?????

Is someone, maybe the mayor, covering for him?????

Something sounds extremely corrupt here, and we have 21 people dead.

Draw your own conclusions, I guess.
 
This is utter and complete BS. Every police officer in this country has a standing order to go towards and neutralize an active shooter and not to wait for backup. Not one single officer there can use the excuse that they sat on their ass and hid because they were given a command to cower. Multiple police experts have stated since the shooting that officers on the scene had an obligation to disobey such an order, if indeed it was ever actually given. If you want to grant these cops that excuse, there were multiple officers at the scene before the chief arrived. They chose to take cover like all the others.
Bullcrap. They went to the shooter, but he was in a locked room, there, they were commanded not to breech because of a faulty understanding of the actual scenario.

Command screwed up, not the other officers. Several of you are conflating pieces and parts of various protocols and policies, infammatory tweets, statements made by others, etc, but failing to understand the dynamics and specific timeline of that particular event.
 
Bullcrap. They went to the shooter, but he was in a locked room, there, they were commanded not to breech because of a faulty understanding of the actual scenario.

Command screwed up, not the other officers. Several of you are conflating pieces and parts of various protocols and policies, infammatory tweets, statements made by others, etc, but failing to understand the dynamics and specific timeline of that particular event.
How did they get orders from a chief who had no radio?
 
What are you even talking about? Are you going out of your way to prove that you're a moron?

It's a twitter thread of an NY Times reporter going through the guidelines provided to officers of the Uvalde School District (and surrounding jurisdictions) directly from an "active shooter" training day from two months ago, one of two such training sessions in the last year.

"Tweets...not necessarily facts"...... You're trying to claim these guidelines aren't real?
What ISN'T included in those tweets relative to the active shooter training received? The protocol that is to be followed when the determination is made the subject was barricaded.

Yes, the commander erroneously concluded that it was a "barricade" event and reacted accordingly. That he was wrong then led to much wasted time and additional mayhem.

But...once that determination was made, even though it was later determined to be faulty, it guided the subsequent decisions...at least for what sounds like the next 30 to 40 minutes.

Therefore, taking just the quote about the training received instructing the officers to seek and neutralize the threat is misleading...because the situation had been declared something different by command...with a different protocol to be followed.

Yet you guys continue to key in on phrases that were not applicable to that scenario, at that time.
 
Glad we’re still debating police response and not how shooter got in or got weapons. Yay texas cops bad!

Are we still touting “the cops saved their own kids first” also?
 
Bullcrap. They went to the shooter, but he was in a locked room

Lol, funny. They absolutely did not. It is well established at this point.

This is no different than how police have acted in the vast majority of active shooter incidents in the past 20 years. There have been exceedingly few examples of officers actually engaging active shooters who have superior firepower.

Most often they put on their Meal Team Six gear and LARP around safely away from the shooter. One cop at the Parkland HS massacre was filmed taking a full minute to put on his bulletproof vest. They can often be seen barking orders at civilians who have little to no involvement in the situation but they need to show someone, anyone, who's boss.

Face the facts. Scott Peterson is the role model for cops in these active shooter situations. He hid just as most of them do.
 
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What ISN'T included in those tweets relative to the active shooter training received? The protocol that is to be followed when the determination is made the subject was barricaded.

Yes, the commander erroneously concluded that it was a "barricade" event and reacted accordingly. That he was wrong then led to much wasted time and additional mayhem.

But...once that determination was made, even though it was later determined to be faulty, it guided the subsequent decisions...at least for what sounds like the next 30 to 40 minutes.

Therefore, taking just the quote about the training received instructing the officers to seek and neutralize the threat is misleading...because the situation had been declared something different by command...with a different protocol to be followed.

Yet you guys continue to key in on phrases that were not applicable to that scenario, at that time.
So, they couldn’t hear the gun fire that was clearly heard by pretty much everyone else and on the 911 calls? Only them and the commander?
 
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So, they couldn’t hear the gun fire that was clearly heard by pretty much everyone else and on the 911 calls? Only them and the commander?
I never said they couldn't hear the gunfire. I am pretty confident that they did and that is likely why some of them ultimately broke ranks and breeched. They realized that the command was screwing up and they then stepped out of order so to speak and breeched.
 
Lol, funny. They absolutely did not. It is well established at this point.

This is no different than how police have acted in the vast majority of active shooter incidents in the past 20 years. There have been exceedingly few examples of officers actually engaging active shooters who have superior firepower.

Most often they put on their Meal Team Six gear and LARP around safely away from the shooter. One cop at the Parkland HS massacre was filmed taking a full minute to put on his bulletproof vest. They can often be seen barking orders at civilians who have little to no involvement in the situation but they need to show someone, anyone, who's boss.

Face the facts. Scott Peterson is the role model for cops in these active shooter situations. He hid just as most of them do.
From what I am reading, they DID go the sound of the gunfire, encountered a locked door and were commanded not to breech.

If you think that something else happened, provide a link, because i am not seeing that. The articles linked in this thread support what i am saying, not what you are saying.
 
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What ISN'T included in those tweets relative to the active shooter training received? The protocol that is to be followed when the determination is made the subject was barricaded.

Yes, the commander erroneously concluded that it was a "barricade" event and reacted accordingly. That he was wrong then led to much wasted time and additional mayhem.

But...once that determination was made, even though it was later determined to be faulty, it guided the subsequent decisions...at least for what sounds like the next 30 to 40 minutes.

Therefore, taking just the quote about the training received instructing the officers to seek and neutralize the threat is misleading...because the situation had been declared something different by command...with a different protocol to be followed.

Yet you guys continue to key in on phrases that were not applicable to that scenario, at that time.
From the International Associations of Chiefs of Police:

It is the policy of this agency in active shooter situations where ongoing deadly force is reasonably likely to be employed by a suspect—and delay in taking law enforcement action could result in injury or death—that immediate action by officers at the scene is necessary when such actions are deemed reasonable to prevent further injuries or loss of life.

The officers at the scene are obligated by their training and oath to take IMMEDIATE action to prevent loss of life...even at risk to their own lives. They were stymied by a locked door.
 
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