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Update on Uvalde Police Response

So much wrong with this. Read the linked articles.
I've read the got damn linked articles dude. I've freaking quoted from them.

You're the post 23 "You are the one that doesn't know what you are talking about...you are getting geeked up by reacting to Tweets.. ." guy in this thread. .
 
It seems really stupid for Texas school boards to even have their own police forces, but especially stupid for those school district police forces to have control over active shooter situations. No way they can be as trained or experienced as local police.

It’d be like FSU campus police giving orders to a Tallahassee special response team. Those guys were basically rent-a-cops who spent all their time dealing with underage drinking and petty theft.
 
I've read the got damn linked articles dude. I've freaking quoted from them.

You're the post 23 "You are the one that doesn't know what you are talking about...you are getting geeked up by reacting to Tweets.. ." guy in this thread. .
There's a pretty good reason why you're on an island in this discussion.

You're defending the indefensible.
 
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The Uvalde police department threatening the mother with a probation violation if she talked to the media is stunning - but par for the course from this police department.

The fact that these are the communications when the PD hired a public relations firm bottles* the mind.
 
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It seems really stupid for Texas school boards to even have their own police forces, but especially stupid for those school district police forces to have control over active shooter situations. No way they can be as trained or experienced as local police.

It’d be like FSU campus police giving orders to a Tallahassee special response team. Those guys were basically rent-a-cops who spent all their time dealing with underage drinking and petty theft.
But the thing is, this "police force" was apparently specifically created for this exact type of situation, it was a response to several other mass shootings in Texas. I'll defer if I'm wrong about this one, but I'm pretty certain I've read that in the last week.
 
All the 911 calls from the kids in the rooms, all the shots being fired throughout the time he was “a barricaded subject” that shouldn’t be breached, etc. Incompetence is the kindest label you could put on this shit show. I get the command argument (although holy shit how did it take 70+ minutes for someone to grow some backbone and common sense), but to me the most clear sign of LEO’s fear for their own safety over their sworn oath was in the first few minutes of the situation.

This part from the timeline is the most damning. Subject enters building at 11:33am. At 11:35am, seven officers enter the building and because the door is locked they end their pursuit and decide to wait. Two minutes later at 11:37am - 11:44am the shooter resumes shooting (16 rounds) in the classroom but they still decide to wait. At this point, the “barricaded subject” theory is bullshit. It’s only been four minutes since the subject initially entered the building and he’s still shooting. It’s an active shooter situation and the officers froze. I’m sure the people on the receiving end of those 16 bullets were wondering why the seven police that showed up just two minutes before were playing grab ass out in the hall.


From the article:

“The suspect then entered the school via the door at 11:33 a.m. and went to the adjoining classrooms 111 and 112, where he continued shooting, McCraw said.

Two minutes later, seven officers arrived to the school and approached the locked classrooms where the gunman had barricaded himself. Two of the officers were shot by the suspect from behind the door and suffered graze wounds, McCraw said.

The gunman fired 16 more rounds inside the locked classrooms between 11:37 and 11:44 a.m., and more officers continued to arrive to the hallway, McCraw said.”

 
All the 911 calls from the kids in the rooms, all the shots being fired throughout the time he was “a barricaded subject” that shouldn’t be breached, etc. Incompetence is the kindest label you could put on this shit show. I get the command argument (although holy shit how did it take 70+ minutes for someone to grow some backbone and common sense), but to me the most clear sign of LEO’s fear for their own safety over their sworn oath was in the first few minutes of the situation.

This part from the timeline is the most damning. Subject enters building at 11:33am. At 11:35am, seven officers enter the building and because the door is locked they end their pursuit and decide to wait. Two minutes later at 11:37am - 11:44am the shooter resumes shooting (16 rounds) in the classroom but they still decide to wait. At this point, the “barricaded subject” theory is bullshit. It’s only been four minutes since the subject initially entered the building and he’s still shooting. It’s an active shooter situation and the officers froze. I’m sure the people on the receiving end of those 16 bullets were wondering why the seven police that showed up just two minutes before were playing grab ass out in the hall.


From the article:

“The suspect then entered the school via the door at 11:33 a.m. and went to the adjoining classrooms 111 and 112, where he continued shooting, McCraw said.

Two minutes later, seven officers arrived to the school and approached the locked classrooms where the gunman had barricaded himself. Two of the officers were shot by the suspect from behind the door and suffered graze wounds, McCraw said.

The gunman fired 16 more rounds inside the locked classrooms between 11:37 and 11:44 a.m., and more officers continued to arrive to the hallway, McCraw said.”

Not all Heroes wear capes.
 
And AGAIN...for all of you that are reading right past, or not reading at all, the command on the scene determined, erroneously, that it was NOT an active shooter situation, but a "hostage/barricade" situation.

That has a different prescribed response and protocol. You can quote anyone you want, but every time you do you are highlighting that you are not comprehending what exactly happened there.
There is no barricade/hostage situation with an active shooter.

The first officers on the scene were NOT in touch with command - "command" has said quite clearly, he didn't have a radio. They entered the school 2-3 minutes after the gunman. They backed away when they took fire. Ten minutes later, more officers take fire. They AGAIN retreat. They heard gunshots from the room 50 minutes after he entered the building. Their training and duty are crystal clear - they should have advanced on the active shooter, regardless of orders, regardless of the risk to their lives, to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible. Getting SHOT AT and hearing continuing gunfire is the f'n DEFINITION of active shooter. In an elementary school faced with an active shooter, LEO's on scene took fire and retreated. Twice. Then refused to enter the room for 80 minutes where he continued to fire his weapon. You can't wash that away with your irrelevancies.
 
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There is no barricade/hostage situation with an active shooter. The first officers on the scene were NOT in touch with command - "command" has said quite clearly, he didn't have a radio. They entered the school 2-3 minutes after the gunman. They backed away when they took fire. Ten minutes later, more officers take fire. They AGAIN retreat. They heard gunshots from the room 50 minuts after he entered the building. Their training and duty are crystal clear - they should have advanced on the active shooter, regardless of orders, regardless of the risk to their lives, to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible. Getting SHOT AT and hearing continuing gunfire is the f'n DEFINITION of active shooter. In an elementary school faced with an active shooter, LEO's on scene took fire and retreated. Twice. Then refused to enter the room for 80 minutes where he continued to fire his weapon. You can't wash that away with your irrelevancies.

Agree. There’s simply no defending the timeline I posted above at the beginning of the incident.
 
I already addressed that to the extent that i can...it is probably BECAUSE they heard the gunshots that they came to the realization that the declaration of a "hostage/barricade" situation was incorrect...leading some of them to ultimately take matters into their own hands.
All that time later? I mean they were in the building for an hour.
 
The kids in that room messed up. Should have known police have no duty to safe u and that a cop life isn't worth the risk of theirs.
Kids needed to rush the shooter.
---Sarcasm.
 
The Uvalde police department threatening the mother with a probation violation if she talked to the media is stunning - but par for the course from this police department.

The fact that these are the communications when the PD hired a public relations firm bottles* the mind.
We all knew that we'd get here eventually. Protecting reputations, keeping jobs, and avoiding possible charges is now the most important thing to the local law enforcement agencies. Any investigation of this massacre cannot be run locally.
 
Oh for cripes sake. You know exactly what I was saying and claiming, that "official law enforcement sources" have been lying and changing their stories from day one of this thing. Are you disputing that?

But how Cop of you, It's actually the REPORTERS who are/were incompetent and didn't do their jobs in Uvalde. Take a look at the real villains/scandal here America. The RePOrTerS.
The real villain was shot and killed.
 
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There is no barricade/hostage situation with an active shooter.

The first officers on the scene were NOT in touch with command - "command" has said quite clearly, he didn't have a radio. They entered the school 2-3 minutes after the gunman. They backed away when they took fire. Ten minutes later, more officers take fire. They AGAIN retreat. They heard gunshots from the room 50 minutes after he entered the building. Their training and duty are crystal clear - they should have advanced on the active shooter, regardless of orders, regardless of the risk to their lives, to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible. Getting SHOT AT and hearing continuing gunfire is the f'n DEFINITION of active shooter. In an elementary school faced with an active shooter, LEO's on scene took fire and retreated. Twice. Then refused to enter the room for 80 minutes where he continued to fire his weapon. You can't wash that away with your irrelevancies.
No, it shouldn't have been declared a barricade/hostage situation, but it was. And you are glossing over the fact that all 19 officers were not there in the first couple of minutes.

It is entirely possible for a situation like that to turn on a dime. Anyone encountering heavy, overpowering gunfire is of course going to retrench and retreat to get a better position, etc. They ran to the shooter initially and were greeted with more firepower than they had, at first.
 
But the thing is, this "police force" was apparently specifically created for this exact type of situation, it was a response to several other mass shootings in Texas. I'll defer if I'm wrong about this one, but I'm pretty certain I've read that in the last week.
Could be, but I think they have 4 officers. I can’t imagine they are as trained or experienced as officers who deal with nasty people every day. I just don’t think the school police chief should’ve been in charge of the situation.
 
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No, it shouldn't have been declared a barricade/hostage situation, but it was. And you are glossing over the fact that all 19 officers were not there in the first couple of minutes.

It is entirely possible for a situation like that to turn on a dime. Anyone encountering heavy, overpowering gunfire is of course going to retrench and retreat to get a better position, etc. They ran to the shooter initially and were greeted with more firepower than they had, at first.
Rule is engage shooter even if outgunned. If he's busy shooting at u. It means he isn't shooting at unarmed civilians.
 
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No, it shouldn't have been declared a barricade/hostage situation, but it was. And you are glossing over the fact that all 19 officers were not there in the first couple of minutes.

It is entirely possible for a situation like that to turn on a dime. Anyone encountering heavy, overpowering gunfire is of course going to retrench and retreat to get a better position, etc. They ran to the shooter initially and were greeted with more firepower than they had, at first.

You’re ignoring the facts in my post. SEVEN officers were there within 2 minutes of the gunman entering the school. 2 minutes after their arrival, the gunman was still firing shots in the classroom (16 rounds). Those seven officers stood around the hall while because the door was locked. In the INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY scenario that the chief had somehow been able to evaluate and come to the decision this was a barricaded subject scenario and communicated to all in his command in those 2 minutes, that decision should have gone out the window as the situation turned back into an active shooter situation the second he started shooting those 16 rounds.

You’re trying awfully hard to give those seven officers that were first on the scene an easy out of “I was just following orders.”
 
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No, it shouldn't have been declared a barricade/hostage situation, but it was. And you are glossing over the fact that all 19 officers were not there in the first couple of minutes.

It is entirely possible for a situation like that to turn on a dime. Anyone encountering heavy, overpowering gunfire is of course going to retrench and retreat to get a better position, etc. They ran to the shooter initially and were greeted with more firepower than they had, at first.
So - a call for banning the semi-automatic weapons of choice as well as high capacity magazines. We're getting somewhere.

The officers who were there in the first minutes have a sworn duty and the training to advance on an active shooter. Period. They failed to do so. Period. You keep posting irrelevancies to try and bury that. The children in those classrooms were the ones facing "heavy, overpowering gunfire". With lives at stake, the officers prioritized their own safety over that of 10 year old children. That can not be defended and you're looking worse with every post.
 
It is entirely possible for a situation like that to turn on a dime. Anyone encountering heavy, overpowering gunfire is of course going to retrench and retreat to get a better position, etc. They ran to the shooter initially and were greeted with more firepower than they had, at first.
You're admitting here you haven't read or absorbed what's been pointed out to you over and over in this thread per the guidelines these officers were supposed to follow when it comes to an active shooter school situation.
 
How in the first couple of minutes were the officers supposed to be able to breech a locked classroom?

This wasn't the movies where the good guy shoots at the lock and the door flies open. Ironically, these locks are designed to keep shooters out.
 
This is just not true. The officers in question gave original statements and have not made any other statements. The only thing that changed daily is the reporting and the little bits of info that are coming from sources that are NOT the officers in question. You are reacting to headlines that are designed to elicited reactions.
The first sentence of the NY Times article is: A New York Times examination of the police response, based on dozens of interviews with law enforcement officials, children who survived, parents who were witnesses outside and experts on policing, found that breakdowns in communication and tactical decisions that were out of step with years of police preparations for school shootings may have contributed to additional deaths, and certainly delayed critical medical attention to the wounded.

Looks like they interviewed some of law enforcement officers involved.
 
How in the first couple of minutes were the officers supposed to be able to breech a locked classroom?

This wasn't the movies where the good guy shoots at the lock and the door flies open. Ironically, these locks are designed to keep shooters out.
Through the windows.
 
How in the first couple of minutes were the officers supposed to be able to breech a locked classroom?

This wasn't the movies where the good guy shoots at the lock and the door flies open. Ironically, these locks are designed to keep shooters out.

You’re one stubborn sob I’ll give you that. Here, let me write what you should because you can’t find the ability to do so.

“I’ll admit the initial response by the responding officers was likely dereliction of duty as there was an ongoing shooter situation and their lack of action within the first few minutes of the event was cowardly and self serving. It’s hard to say exactly when the extremely and much maligned decision by experts everywhere to transition this to a barricaded subject scenario happened. However, it’s obvious that the ”chain of command” dictated the approach for much longer than it should have - as evidenced by the fact that a small group of LEO’s broke command to end the siege 75 minutes after it started. The entire situation will be a case study in inadequate law enforcement response and while these labels can’t be universally applied to all LEO’s on the scene, there was cowardice, lack of training, indecisiveness, and poor judgement by responding agencies on display that day.”
 
How in the first couple of minutes were the officers supposed to be able to breech a locked classroom?

This wasn't the movies where the good guy shoots at the lock and the door flies open. Ironically, these locks are designed to keep shooters out.
In a school active shooter incident, school admin would be ready to immediately cooperate with LEO's. And first-on-site LEO's should know who to contact...immediately...to obtain any plans for the school and a master key for any locked doors. There is a box in our office that contains all the resources any law enforcement officer would need to confront a shooter. A police force formed for the purpose of protecting schools from an active shooter - the major reason for their existence - would know that. There should have been an officer at that door within minutes with a key preparing to enter. According to reports, the team that entered the room had to get a key from a janitor.

You do not know what you're talking about. You should stop.
 
In an active shooter situation...yes, you would be correct. Well, technically, it is not their sole job, but it is the #1 priority, we agree on that.

But...that the situation was declared to be a hostage/barricade situation, no, you are not correct.

This has been explained now about 10 times and is also explained in the articles linked in this thread. Do you not understand the distinction?
So a barricade situation was made up to save their cowardly asses. This does not exist in this type of situation. They just had training 2 months earlier. I am afraid you don't seem to understand the distinction. This was a kill the shooter by any and all means situation.
 
In a school active shooter incident, school admin would be ready to immediately cooperate with LEO's. And first-on-site LEO's should know who to contact...immediately...to obtain any plans for the school and a master key for any locked doors. There is a box in our office that contains all the resources any law enforcement officer would need to confront a shooter. A police force formed for the purpose of protecting schools from an active shooter - the major reason for their existence - would know that. There should have been an officer at that door within minutes with a key preparing to enter. According to reports, the team that entered the room had to get a key from a janitor.

You do not know what you're talking about. You should stop.
I would think the Chief of the school police would be given a master key. I had master keys when I was teaching, I'm sure there were other people in the building with keys. The whole thing reeks, I don't think we've been told the whole truth and I'm not sure, short of a lawsuit, we will ever get the truth. If I were a parent of a child in that room I'd do everything I could to force a full investigation.
 
Interesting note on Lib TV a few minutes ago. There is some loophole in Texas law that allows for footage to be held back if a person is never convicted of a crime? So, the cops in Texas will have the option of trying to hide the video of the slaughter and it's aftermath because the gunman died.
 
The real villain was shot and killed.
Oh, look at Doobi trying to furiously kick sand around. Yeah, the guy killed the kids and teachers. The goal is to prevent the next one, instead of just giving up Ts and Ps, and saying there is nothing we can do. Doobi is running the NRA playbook today. Deflect. Delay.
 
Interesting note on Lib TV a few minutes ago. There is some loophole in Texas law that allows for footage to be held back if a person is never convicted of a crime? So, the cops in Texas will have the option of trying to hide the video of the slaughter and it's aftermath because the gunman died.
I feel that video should never get out.
 
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