US workforce in 5 years

[ihhawk]

Im curious the thoughts from the right and left on what the US workforce will look like in 5 years. I feel that this is a disaster about to happen.

There is going to be an oversupply of uneducated labor looking for work and a shortage of jobs. This is only going to affect the poors and minorities.

The black unemployment rate and wages will be a major issue after Obama leaves office.

 

[LuteHawk]

The demise of the blue collar worker will continue
unabated as major corporations like Caterpillar Inc.
export jobs overseas. Look at the clothing industry,
even Tommy Hilfiger has his stuff made overseas.
When major companies can pay minimum wages
to workers in other nations, then U.S. workers get
nothing.

 

[naturalmwa]

What do you think is going to happen in the next 5 years that will produce this change? Are you thinking the TPP trade agreement or other?

 

[IMCC965]

1970's all over again if this Worker program isn't nixed.

 

[Aegon_Targaryen]

It's hard to say, the true unemployment rate is over 20% easily. The technical skills in the country aren't keeping up with the technology in regards to workers who have the necessary skills. The Big banks got bigger and are now an even bigger threat should they fall. Government is showing several signs that it simply cannot support itself.

There are most definitely reasons to believe that in 5 years it could get worse.

 

[fredjr82]

I assume that once the Republicans win the WH in 2016 and control everything they'll be able to right the ship. They have all these wonderful ideas on how to improve everything

.

 

[ihhawk]

The immigration executive orders. The newly legal immigrants that are not educated will be fighting for the same jobs as the AA in the country.

 

[hawkitd]

Originally posted by fredjr82:
I assume that once the Republicans win the WH in 2016 and control everything they'll be able to right the ship. They have all these wonderful ideas on how to improve everything

Likely, yes.

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by montross:
The immigration executive orders. The newly legal immigrants that are not educated will be fighting for the same jobs as the AA in the country.

Doesn't the immigration order actually help prevent your scenario as businesses now have to pay them the minimum wage above the table? Sounds like a bump in the minimum wage would solve all your concerns.

 

[22*43*51]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by montross:
The immigration executive orders. The newly legal immigrants that are not educated will be fighting for the same jobs as the AA in the country.

Doesn't the immigration order actually help prevent your scenario as businesses now have to pay them the minimum wage above the table? Sounds like a bump in the minimum wage would solve all your concerns.

They cannot get paid minimum wage if they are not employed. These jobs you speak of do not exist.

Linked Again

 

[jscott78]

Considerably more independent contractors as insurance and employer contributions to a retirement plan continue to cut into profits. If conservatives are in power, this will be seen as just the nature of the work place evolving and good for business. If Dems are still in charge of the white house, it will be Hillary's fault with a smidge of Obama blame on the side.

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by montross:
The immigration executive orders. The newly legal immigrants that are not educated will be fighting for the same jobs as the AA in the country.

Doesn't the immigration order actually help prevent your scenario as businesses now have to pay them the minimum wage above the table? Sounds like a bump in the minimum wage would solve all your concerns.

They cannot get paid minimum wage if they are not employed. These jobs you speak of do not exist.

Linked Again

By that logic its not the immigration executive order that is at issue. If immigrants were here for work since 2000, then they were doing those jobs off the books, right? Now they are on the books. That is an advantage for US workers, which means the executive order solves for part of montross's complaint.

 

[linkshero]

Originally posted by LuteHawk:
The demise of the blue collar worker will continue
unabated as major corporations like Caterpillar Inc.
export jobs overseas. Look at the clothing industry,
even Tommy Hilfiger has his stuff made overseas.
When major companies can pay minimum wages
to workers in other nations, then U.S. workers get
nothing.

As he was back in 1989. Not many clothing companies produce domestically. There are a few, including a lot of the military supply companies. To give you an idea, Tailgate Clothing Co used to use a domestic supplier (that supplier did a lot for Army, Navy, ...) and many people complained about their Collegiate T shirts being $50-55 back in the early 2000's. Ironically, Tshirts are one thing that can still be found domestically, in the Carolina's, but that is because they can be produced primarily without much cut and sew (manual labor).

There was a period where the US apparel industry was trying to produce in Mexico, but NAFTA pretty much imploded that whole process.

 

[22*43*51]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by montross:
The immigration executive orders. The newly legal immigrants that are not educated will be fighting for the same jobs as the AA in the country.

Doesn't the immigration order actually help prevent your scenario as businesses now have to pay them the minimum wage above the table? Sounds like a bump in the minimum wage would solve all your concerns.

They cannot get paid minimum wage if they are not employed. These jobs you speak of do not exist.

Linked Again

By that logic its not the immigration executive order that is at issue. If immigrants were here for work since 2000, then they were doing those jobs off the books, right? Now they are on the books. That is an advantage for US workers, which means the executive order solves for part of montross's complaint.


On the books, off the books there are still more laborers than jobs. If they're illegal and off the books then they are taking the job from a citizen who is on government assistance.

Decrease the labor pool. Increase job opportunities and make companies compete for labor through wages.(as opposed to engorging the labor pool and forcing an arbitrary minimum wage)

Unemployment decreases - tax dollars are rerouted to education, SS and infrastructure. Winning.

Why is this such a hard concept.

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by montross:
The immigration executive orders. The newly legal immigrants that are not educated will be fighting for the same jobs as the AA in the country.

Doesn't the immigration order actually help prevent your scenario as businesses now have to pay them the minimum wage above the table? Sounds like a bump in the minimum wage would solve all your concerns.

They cannot get paid minimum wage if they are not employed. These jobs you speak of do not exist.

Linked Again

By that logic its not the immigration executive order that is at issue. If immigrants were here for work since 2000, then they were doing those jobs off the books, right? Now they are on the books. That is an advantage for US workers, which means the executive order solves for part of montross's complaint.


On the books, off the books there are still more laborers than jobs. If they're illegal and off the books then they are taking the job from a citizen who is on government assistance.

Decrease the labor pool. Increase job opportunities and make companies compete for labor through wages.(as opposed to engorging the labor pool and forcing an arbitrary minimum wage)

Unemployment decreases - tax dollars are rerouted to education, SS and infrastructure. Winning.

Why is this such a hard concept.

I'm not disagreeing with this. What I'm pointing out is that Obama's DACA executive order didn't make this situation worse, it made it better. Now all those on the book workers are paying the taxes and working at the prevailing wage and contributing as you advocate they should. The visa expansion makes it worse.

 

[22*43*51]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

I'm not disagreeing with this. What I'm pointing out is that Obama's DACA executive order didn't make this situation worse, it made it better. Now all those on the book workers are paying the taxes and working at the prevailing wage and contributing as you advocate they should. The visa expansion makes it worse.

Every illegal immigrant that crossed our southern border yesterday, today and tomorrow(next week, next year etc.) will also continue to dilute the wage pool.

Are you even more upset about that?

Again, you seem to be more concerned about the people who are actually trying to follow our immigration law.


There's my point fred.

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

I'm not disagreeing with this. What I'm pointing out is that Obama's DACA executive order didn't make this situation worse, it made it better. Now all those on the book workers are paying the taxes and working at the prevailing wage and contributing as you advocate they should. The visa expansion makes it worse.

Every illegal immigrant that crossed our southern border yesterday, today and tomorrow(next week, next year etc.) will also continue to dilute the wage pool.

Are you even more upset about that?

Again, you seem to be more concerned about the people who are actually trying to follow our immigration law.


There's my point fred.

Sure am, I specified the type of DACA illegal I'm for integrating. The type the executive order was aimed at, which was the topic we were discussing. The problem identified by montross wasn't millions of new people flooding over the border, but the millions of people who have lived here for a decade who are now being integrated by Obama's executive order.

Its my understanding that the flow of new illegals over the border problem you describe has already largely been eliminated. Confirm or deny? If not, you have my support in stemming that tide.

 

[22*43*51]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:


Its my understanding that the flow of new illegals over the border problem you describe has already largely been eliminated.

What in the world has changed at our southern border that would ever make you suspect that?

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:


Its my understanding that the flow of new illegals over the border problem you describe has already largely been eliminated.

What in the world has changed at our southern border that would ever make you suspect that?

I thought we beefed up enforcement significantly over the last decade. Didn't we build a lot of walls and employ drones and cameras and more border guards and more deportations?

 

[22*43*51]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:


Its my understanding that the flow of new illegals over the border problem you describe has already largely been eliminated.

What in the world has changed at our southern border that would ever make you suspect that?

I thought we beefed up enforcement significantly over the last decade. Didn't we build a lot of walls and employ drones and cameras and more border guards and more deportations?

Some individual states have done different things, but it is no small task for such a large geographical boundary. Some have tried to call up national guard(Texas), some have tried different forms of ID.(Arizona) You probably have even seen stories of red-neck militia groups trying to lend a hand.

By and large it is the same situation it has always been. It wouldn't be cheap and would require federal coordination.(too big to handle at the state level.)

No not cheap, or easy at all. But, the cost of caring for a swollen population that cannot provide for themselves isn't cheap, or easy either.

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:


Its my understanding that the flow of new illegals over the border problem you describe has already largely been eliminated.

What in the world has changed at our southern border that would ever make you suspect that?

I thought we beefed up enforcement significantly over the last decade. Didn't we build a lot of walls and employ drones and cameras and more border guards and more deportations?

Some individual states have done different things, but it is no small task for such a large geographical boundary. Some have tried to call up national guard(Texas), some have tried different forms of ID.(Arizona) You probably have even seen stories of red-neck militia groups trying to lend a hand.

By and large it is the same situation it has always been. It wouldn't be cheap and would require federal coordination.(too big to handle at the state level.)

No not cheap, or easy at all. But, the cost of caring for a swollen population that cannot provide for themselves isn't cheap, or easy either.

Admittedly its not a topic I know a great deal about, but I don't think its exactly as you describe here either. Since 9/11 the border security has improved at the federal level a great deal it would appear.

 

[22*43*51]

Interesting. I'm no expert either, though the ramp up does seem to be trailing surges in the past few years.

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Interesting. I'm no expert either, though the ramp up does seem to be trailing surges in the past few years.

That might just be showing successful progress on an abating problem, no? I mean you wouldn't expect there to be an unlimited supply of poor immigrants paying thousands of dollars to a coyote for repeated unsuccessful attempts. What seems clear is that the past two administrations have been moving in the direction you and I want to secure the border for the past decade or so.

The immage of masses flowing over the border and into our factories replacing American workers doesn't seem to be correct. The reality is most of those illegal workers lived here for years and have families and are not criminals (other then being where we don't want them). BHO's executive order lessons their impact on the economy IMO. Its also my opinion that that population can't, shouldn't be and wont be deported. So its time to make the executive order permanent and integrate those people into American society. Its just practical.