Veterans can now teach in Florida with no degree. School leaders say it 'lowers the bar'

EasyHawk

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We’ve been lowering the bar for decades.
This is true, and in my opinion (and I am not a teacher but my no pics wife is so I do get her perspective) it started with the "No Child Left Behind." Until special ed kids are put back in special ed classes and behavior disorder kids are put in behavior disorder rooms, and TAG kids are put together in TAG classes (or if there aren't enough, at least with higher end students), I don't see it improving. Now in almost all classes, my wife has all of these together. Sometimes she will have a para or two (often assigned to just one student, but sometimes just there for a group of special ed kids). But how does one teacher bring the special ed kids along, challenge the TAG/high end kids, deal with behavior disorder kids, and challenge/teach for the B/C type kids, not to mention the ones that don't care. The end result often seems to be bringing everyone down. This is middle school, so in high school there are certainly college prep classes, etc.
 

Finance85

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Oct 22, 2003
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a retired colonel would have had the required education. That's the part you're missing. I used to work with the troops to teachers office twenty years ago in Florida. It's a great program and one we probably should boost. But that's not what this bill does. THIS bill says anyone who was in the military at anytime "OR" their spouses can get a teaching certificate whether or not they have a bachelor's degree or not. That means a stay at home Mom, who's only qualifiications to teach are that her husband or "A stay at home Dad who's wife" was in the military at some point gets to educate my children on something they know extremely little about. That is a problem.

I'd be ok with working with them to help veterans get that education and qualification much more easily, I just don't like the idea of giving them a 5 year certificate with no requirement of educational background to teach whether or not they have any knowledge of that subject or not.
No, a retired colonel doesn't have the required education based on standards in most states. It's not just having subject matter expertise, the states of FL and NC require classes in teaching methods. There is value in those classes.

Yes, I realize this bill drastically lowers the requirements even more than previous proposals. That's why I said it sucks.
 

kc78

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No, a retired colonel doesn't have the required education based on standards in most states. It's not just having subject matter expertise, the states of FL and NC require classes in teaching methods. There is value in those classes.

Yes, I realize this bill drastically lowers the requirements even more than previous proposals. That's why I said it sucks.
That's not true about Florida law. The alternative certification requirement allows people without education degrees to become teachers. They just have to have a bachelor's degree in the subject matter they're looking to teach in, pass one of the two required certification tests and they can start teaching with a temporary certificate. Teachers can then teach for up to three years while they work on the other requirements.

I do believe that this program also "requires" the veterans to start working towards meeting the requirements, but it gives them a full 5 year certificate to do so without any of the training requirements other than passing the cert test.
 

ft254

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a retired colonel would have had the required education. That's the part you're missing. I used to work with the troops to teachers office twenty years ago in Florida. It's a great program and one we probably should boost. But that's not what this bill does. THIS bill says anyone who was in the military at anytime "OR" their spouses can get a teaching certificate whether or not they have a bachelor's degree or not. That means a stay at home Mom, who's only qualifiications to teach are that her husband or "A stay at home Dad who's wife" was in the military at some point gets to educate my children on something they know extremely little about. That is a problem.

I'd be ok with working with them to help veterans get that education and qualification much more easily, I just don't like the idea of giving them a 5 year certificate with no requirement of educational background to teach whether or not they have any knowledge of that subject or not.

It's caviler to believe one has the qualifications to educate children and that includes parents that home school.

I least trust anyone associated with the military, particularly in this political climate.
 
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Finance85

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That's not true about Florida law. The alternative certification requirement allows people without education degrees to become teachers. They just have to have a bachelor's degree in the subject matter they're looking to teach in, pass one of the two required certification tests and they can start teaching with a temporary certificate. Teachers can then teach for up to three years while they work on the other requirements.

I do believe that this program also "requires" the veterans to start working towards meeting the requirements, but it gives them a full 5 year certificate to do so without any of the training requirements other than passing the cert test.
It is true. You just said it. The certificate is temporary until the teaching methods classes are completed.

We agree the new proposal is bad.
 

kc78

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It is true. You just said it. The certificate is temporary until the teaching methods classes are completed.

We agree the new proposal is bad.
Yes, but you still get to teach with just the bachelor's degree. And nobody has ever really had a problem with that proposal. It requires that you understand what you're teaching, it understands that you may be a bit green in teaching pedagogy, but that the outside experience you bring balances that out while still expecting you to grow those skills.

This program is different. You simply need 60 hours of any school, and you get to teach for a full five years before you have to prove you've done anything. That's where I have a problem.
 

Tom Paris

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This is true, and in my opinion (and I am not a teacher but my no pics wife is so I do get her perspective) it started with the "No Child Left Behind." Until special ed kids are put back in special ed classes and behavior disorder kids are put in behavior disorder rooms, and TAG kids are put together in TAG classes (or if there aren't enough, at least with higher end students), I don't see it improving. Now in almost all classes, my wife has all of these together. Sometimes she will have a para or two (often assigned to just one student, but sometimes just there for a group of special ed kids). But how does one teacher bring the special ed kids along, challenge the TAG/high end kids, deal with behavior disorder kids, and challenge/teach for the B/C type kids, not to mention the ones that don't care. The end result often seems to be bringing everyone down. This is middle school, so in high school there are certainly college prep classes, etc.
Then add that grades don’t really matter at middle school either. I learned this year that, since we don’t mail report card - parents are supposed to view them online - maybe 10% of the parents even login to look at their kid’s grades!! Parents. Aren’t. Looking. At. Report Cards. We’re babysitters.
 
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Finance85

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Oct 22, 2003
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Yes, but you still get to teach with just the bachelor's degree. And nobody has ever really had a problem with that proposal. It requires that you understand what you're teaching, it understands that you may be a bit green in teaching pedagogy, but that the outside experience you bring balances that out while still expecting you to grow those skills.

This program is different. You simply need 60 hours of any school, and you get to teach for a full five years before you have to prove you've done anything. That's where I have a problem.
As I said, we agree.
 
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Hey kids, meet your new math teacher!

newFile-1.jpg
 

tarheelbybirth

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We’re babysitters.
No, we're not. I don't teach for grades. I'm teaching to see students grow. To get them excited about the subject. If I can do that, the grades won't matter - they take care of themselves. First week of school, I go step-by-step how I will evaluate their work and show them how it will be documented. Then I tell them that if I get a question about a grade, I'm going to show them the exact same thing. At that point, my role in the conversation will be done and it will be between them and their "controlling authority".
 
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EasyHawk

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Then add that grades don’t really matter at middle school either. I learned this year that, since we don’t mail report card - parents are supposed to view them online - maybe 10% of the parents even login to look at their kid’s grades!! Parents. Aren’t. Looking. At. Report Cards. We’re babysitters.
Yes, she has the exact same situation. And grades and assignments are always available on infinite campus, but VERY few parents care or look until a kid isn't going to be able to play in a football game or basketball game or go to a track meet due to an F. Then suddenly the teachers are expected to drop everything and get the student to a D- so no game is missed. And kids that don't care a bit the whole time up until the cutoff all of the sudden want extra credit or help after school or during prep periods. It has gotten insane. Parents emailing saying there is no way the F can be in the grade book, there has to be a special assignment or extra credit.
 
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BioHawk

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I don't have any desire to "own the libs". I don't know where you get that from. Wait... you must think that owning you means I own other libs. I only own you because it's easy, and nearly everyone else owns you as well.

The county where I live is roughly 79% GOP. That means the GOP candidate for local elections will win the election. That means that state house and state senate GOP candidates will win the election.

As far as statewide races, I voted for DeSantis for Governor. If you google Andrew Gillum, even you might agree that Gillum is a complete disaster. I've called out DeSantis a number of times, and I call out Matt Gaetz more than anyone but Chis. I'm not surprised your extremely partisan self can't remember that because it doesn't fit for narrative, and hurts your ability to cherry pick.

My mom (RIP) was a school teacher. One of my best friends is an assistant principal at an elementary school. We need qualified teachers.

I'm not defending this idea, but I would like to point out it's not new. When I lived in NC, a good friend there was a retired Army Colonel who became a math teacher. Florida has floated the idea of letting people with advanced degrees with majors other than Education become teachers if they have subject matter expertise.
Gillum is a disaster but he still almost beat DeSantis. Also, Gillum isn't a fascist. Now, DeSantis is one election away from ending the Republic as we know it. Granted, it will be more difficult to do to the nation what he has done to Florida, but he has a Supreme Court to rubber stamp any law he wants so the situation has never been set up better for a fascist to take control of the government and get fascist policies implemented.
 
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kc78

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I do need to come back and clarify a few things I'd said earlier, as I've since learned I was misinformed.

Let's be clear. This is a bad idea that attempts to fix a problem entirely created by Florida's continued attack on educators for well over 20 years. That said, many of the claims I've seen are false.

1. It is not open to spouses.
2. It does require some level of competency as you must be able to pass the subject level certification exam.
3. It does require "some" college (Minimum of 60 hours).

Those are still not good requirements, but it's not as bad as I originally saw or feared.

Here's the link to the full details.

Military Veterans Certification Pathway
 
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Joes Place

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1. It is not open to spouses.

LOLWUT?

The Florida legislature expanded opportunities for military personnel, veterans and their spouses to join the education profession through passage of the “Don Hahnfeldt Veteran and Military Family Opportunity Act” (Chapter 2018-007, L.O.F.). Effective July 1, 2018, the act provides the opportunity to request waivers of initial certification and certification examination fees for active duty military personnel, honorably discharged veterans and their spouses

An MCFW remains valid for up to five years upon determination of eligibility
, after which time an educator may submit a new request for review according to eligibility requirements in effect upon submission of the request for a new waiver.
 

kc78

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Nov 25, 2002
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LOLWUT?

The Florida legislature expanded opportunities for military personnel, veterans and their spouses to join the education profession through passage of the “Don Hahnfeldt Veteran and Military Family Opportunity Act” (Chapter 2018-007, L.O.F.). Effective July 1, 2018, the act provides the opportunity to request waivers of initial certification and certification examination fees for active duty military personnel, honorably discharged veterans and their spouses

An MCFW remains valid for up to five years upon determination of eligibility
, after which time an educator may submit a new request for review according to eligibility requirements in effect upon submission of the request for a new waiver.
That's a different program. That's the fee waiver program that's been in place since 2018. The new program which just went into effect is open only to military. It's confusing language in the way they put it up, but that's because they shoe-horned this into the page that already existed and didn't do a very good job. But the new program is NOT open to spouses. It says it right in the requirements.


  • Minimum of 48 months of military service with an honorable/medical discharge
  • Minimum of 60 college credits with a 2.5 grade point average
  • Passing score on a Florida subject area examination for bachelor’s level subjects
  • Employment in a Florida school district, including charter schools
Before applying for this pathway, complete a waiver request for the Military Certification Fees Waiver (MCFW).

The online application for the Temporary Military Veterans Certificate is open:https://flcertify.fldoe.org/datamart/login.do

  • Military spouses and families are not eligible for this certification pathway.
 

Jim Grizzly

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There’s this whole concept called pedagogy that it seems most in this thread aren’t familiar with.
 

tarheelbybirth

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Apr 17, 2003
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THIS bill says anyone who was in the military at anytime "OR" their spouses can get a teaching certificate whether or not they have a bachelor's degree or not. That means a stay at home Mom, who's only qualifiications to teach are that her husband or "A stay at home Dad who's wife" was in the military at some point gets to educate my children on something they know extremely little about.
That is not what's allowed. The earlier forms of the bill allowed spouses to get the certification IF they had a bachelor's degree or higher in the area of instruction. That appears to have been stripped out and the bill now only authorizes veterans...who need at least 60 hours of college-level courses and 48 months of military service.
 
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tarheelbybirth

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This program is different. You simply need 60 hours of any school, and you get to teach for a full five years before you have to prove you've done anything. That's where I have a problem.
They do have to be supervised by a veteran teacher for, I believe, two years and their students have to score well for the certification to be extended. My problem with the whole idea is that they will NOT stay. I've been doing this for 30 years, my no-pic wife for 34, and we've seen these kinds of lateral entry teachers many, many times. I know one who made it past ten years and most didn't last five. There are a lot who didn't last a year. You hear lateral entry or alternative pathway and the first thought is "we need an office pool on the date they quit". Programs like this are used in place of treating teachers like professionals and paying them adequately to retain them. This is a "put a warm body in the position" program.
 
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Tom Paris

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No, we're not. I don't teach for grades. I'm teaching to see students grow. To get them excited about the subject. If I can do that, the grades won't matter - they take care of themselves. First week of school, I go step-by-step how I will evaluate their work and show them how it will be documented. Then I tell them that if I get a question about a grade, I'm going to show them the exact same thing. At that point, my role in the conversation will be done and it will be between them and their "controlling authority".
In the minds of parents? Many? Hell yes we are. Not in OUR minds.