Voter ID

[theiacowtipper]

Yet another example of the potential for abuse when ID is required to vote. Alabama enacts ID laws, then closes drivers license stations in black and democratic counties.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a38461/alabama-voter-id-dmvs/

 

[slieb85]

Shocking. I'm sure that there will be some on here soon to tell us it's super easy to get a driver's license...

 

[hawkland14]

As ciggy would say I would believe the story if It were from a reputable source. Esquire is nothing more than a liberal hack magazine.

 

[thewop]

Voter ID should be required, ID should not be made more difficult to obtain. It's that simple.

 

[theiacowtipper]

OK, how about a few more links. We see the Republican agenda becoming more clear. Congressional committees that, admittedly are figureheads for the National Committee to bring down politicians. Systematic disenfranchisement of typically democratic constituencies.

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/09/voter_id_and_drivers_license_o.html

From this one, we'll bring in mobile license stations. Yeah right.
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/09/state_says_closing_driver_lice.html

“Every single county in which blacks make up more than 75 percent of registered voters will see their driver license office closed. Every one.."

https://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/al...-in-counties-with-75-black-registered-voters/

From Republicans, nothing to see here, we'll make it right. There's absolutely nothing to the fact that we are targeting non-white areas and closing their easiest access to voter id. We'll bring in a mobile van, probably from 1-2 in the afternoon every fourth Tuesday.

 

[Lone Clone]

Voter ID should be required, ID should not be made more difficult to obtain. It's that simple.

It's too simple for simpletons to understand.

 

[TexMichFan]

The information below is to add a little balance to the OP post. This drivers license issue is pretty much a straw man argument IMHO.

On the funding issue the closer of the bureaus was not an action of the state legislature but was decided by state law enforcement officials in response to budget cuts. The closures of the 33 offices were done across 32 counties so to single out this as a racial issue is just a tad disingenuous. They closed all satellite offices for drivers licenses not just the ones where "black people live".

Voter ID Implementation
During the 2011 Regular Legislative Session the Legislature approved House Bill 19. Governor Robert Bentley signed the bill and it was subsequently assigned Act Number 2011-673.

Beginning with the June 3, 2014 primary election, Act 2011-673 requires an Alabama voter to have a specific type of photo identification at the polls in order to vote. If a voter does not have one of the approved forms of photo ID as stated in the law, then he or she may receive a free Alabama photo voter ID from various locations including the Secretary of State's Office, local county board of registrars' offices, and a mobile location to be determined by the Secretary of State's Office.

To download the application for a free photo voter ID, click here.

Valid ID at the Polls
A voter can use any of the following forms of photo ID at the polls starting June 3, 2014:

• Valid Driver's License
• Valid Non-driver ID
• Valid Alabama Photo Voter ID
• Valid State Issued ID (Alabama or any other state)
• Valid Federal Issued ID
• Valid US Passport
• Valid Employee ID from Federal Government, State of Alabama, County Government, Municipality, Board, Authority, or other entity of this state
• Valid student or employee ID from a college or university in the State of Alabama (including postgraduate technical or professional schools)
• Valid Military ID
• Valid Tribal ID

If a voter possesses any of these forms of ID, he/she is not eligible to receive a free Alabama photo voter ID card. The voter must bring one of these photo IDs to the polls on Election Day or place a copy of the ID in absentee ballot materials.

A voter who is required to present valid photo identification but who does not do so will be allowed to vote a provisional ballot as provided for by law.

In addition, a voter who does not have a valid photo ID in his or her possession at the polls shall be permitted to vote if the individual is positively identified by two election officials as a voter on the poll list who is eligible to vote and the election officials sign a sworn affidavit so stating.

 

[Jan Itor]

The information below is to add a little balance to the OP post. This drivers license issue is pretty much a straw man argument IMHO.

On the funding issue the closer of the bureaus was not an action of the state legislature but was decided by state law enforcement officials in response to budget cuts. The closures of the 33 offices were done across 32 counties so to single out this as a racial issue is just a tad disingenuous. They closed all satellite offices for drivers licenses not just the ones where "black people live".

Voter ID Implementation
During the 2011 Regular Legislative Session the Legislature approved House Bill 19. Governor Robert Bentley signed the bill and it was subsequently assigned Act Number 2011-673.

Beginning with the June 3, 2014 primary election, Act 2011-673 requires an Alabama voter to have a specific type of photo identification at the polls in order to vote. If a voter does not have one of the approved forms of photo ID as stated in the law, then he or she may receive a free Alabama photo voter ID from various locations including the Secretary of State's Office, local county board of registrars' offices, and a mobile location to be determined by the Secretary of State's Office.

To download the application for a free photo voter ID, click here.

Valid ID at the Polls
A voter can use any of the following forms of photo ID at the polls starting June 3, 2014:

• Valid Driver's License
• Valid Non-driver ID
• Valid Alabama Photo Voter ID
• Valid State Issued ID (Alabama or any other state)
• Valid Federal Issued ID
• Valid US Passport
• Valid Employee ID from Federal Government, State of Alabama, County Government, Municipality, Board, Authority, or other entity of this state
• Valid student or employee ID from a college or university in the State of Alabama (including postgraduate technical or professional schools)
• Valid Military ID
• Valid Tribal ID

If a voter possesses any of these forms of ID, he/she is not eligible to receive a free Alabama photo voter ID card. The voter must bring one of these photo IDs to the polls on Election Day or place a copy of the ID in absentee ballot materials.

A voter who is required to present valid photo identification but who does not do so will be allowed to vote a provisional ballot as provided for by law.

In addition, a voter who does not have a valid photo ID in his or her possession at the polls shall be permitted to vote if the individual is positively identified by two election officials as a voter on the poll list who is eligible to vote and the election officials sign a sworn affidavit so stating.

But that doesn't help theiowacoawmolester's agenda. You take that back.

 

[aflachawk]

Yet another example of the potential for abuse when ID is required to vote. Alabama enacts ID laws, then closes drivers license stations in black and democratic counties.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a38461/alabama-voter-id-dmvs/

The potential for abuse is there on every side of every issue and done by people of all affiliations. I just think it's better to make sure the person voting is actually that person.

 

[jscott78]

Yet another example of the potential for abuse when ID is required to vote. Alabama enacts ID laws, then closes drivers license stations in black and democratic counties.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a38461/alabama-voter-id-dmvs/

More evidence that conservative ideas are a rot that is ruining this nation.

 

[TexMichFan]

More evidence that conservative ideas are a rot that is ruining this nation.

Yep, ID's are the bane of every civilization and lead to their downfall.

 

[thewop]

The information below is to add a little balance to the OP post. This drivers license issue is pretty much a straw man argument IMHO.

On the funding issue the closer of the bureaus was not an action of the state legislature but was decided by state law enforcement officials in response to budget cuts. The closures of the 33 offices were done across 32 counties so to single out this as a racial issue is just a tad disingenuous. They closed all satellite offices for drivers licenses not just the ones where "black people live".

Voter ID Implementation
During the 2011 Regular Legislative Session the Legislature approved House Bill 19. Governor Robert Bentley signed the bill and it was subsequently assigned Act Number 2011-673.

Beginning with the June 3, 2014 primary election, Act 2011-673 requires an Alabama voter to have a specific type of photo identification at the polls in order to vote. If a voter does not have one of the approved forms of photo ID as stated in the law, then he or she may receive a free Alabama photo voter ID from various locations including the Secretary of State's Office, local county board of registrars' offices, and a mobile location to be determined by the Secretary of State's Office.

To download the application for a free photo voter ID, click here.

Valid ID at the Polls
A voter can use any of the following forms of photo ID at the polls starting June 3, 2014:

• Valid Driver's License
• Valid Non-driver ID
• Valid Alabama Photo Voter ID
• Valid State Issued ID (Alabama or any other state)
• Valid Federal Issued ID
• Valid US Passport
• Valid Employee ID from Federal Government, State of Alabama, County Government, Municipality, Board, Authority, or other entity of this state
• Valid student or employee ID from a college or university in the State of Alabama (including postgraduate technical or professional schools)
• Valid Military ID
• Valid Tribal ID

If a voter possesses any of these forms of ID, he/she is not eligible to receive a free Alabama photo voter ID card. The voter must bring one of these photo IDs to the polls on Election Day or place a copy of the ID in absentee ballot materials.

A voter who is required to present valid photo identification but who does not do so will be allowed to vote a provisional ballot as provided for by law.

In addition, a voter who does not have a valid photo ID in his or her possession at the polls shall be permitted to vote if the individual is positively identified by two election officials as a voter on the poll list who is eligible to vote and the election officials sign a sworn affidavit so stating.

Wow, that seems totally reasonable. What am I missing?

 

[jscott78]

Yep, ID's are the bane of every civilization and lead to their downfall.

Look, at some point one of your guys is going to let slip that all this is political, just like your boy did recently regarding the Hillary Benghazi witch hunts. It's just in your nature to do this.

 

[Chewback]

As ciggy would say I would believe the story if It were from a reputable source. Esquire is nothing more than a liberal hack magazine.

You mean if it's not reported by The Blaze it didn't happen.

 

[TexMichFan]

Look, at some point one of your guys is going to let slip that all this is political, just like your boy did recently regarding the Hillary Benghazi witch hunts. It's just in your nature to do this.

Of course it is political. Just like for your side it is political if people can just show up with a name and vote.

 

[TexMichFan]

Wow, that seems totally reasonable. What am I missing?

Not missing anything. This is another Democratic voting generation crisis talking point.

 

[theiacowtipper]

The information below is to add a little balance to the OP post. This drivers license issue is pretty much a straw man argument IMHO.

On the funding issue the closer of the bureaus was not an action of the state legislature but was decided by state law enforcement officials in response to budget cuts. The closures of the 33 offices were done across 32 counties so to single out this as a racial issue is just a tad disingenuous. They closed all satellite offices for drivers licenses not just the ones where "black people live".

Voter ID Implementation
During the 2011 Regular Legislative Session the Legislature approved House Bill 19. Governor Robert Bentley signed the bill and it was subsequently assigned Act Number 2011-673.

Beginning with the June 3, 2014 primary election, Act 2011-673 requires an Alabama voter to have a specific type of photo identification at the polls in order to vote. If a voter does not have one of the approved forms of photo ID as stated in the law, then he or she may receive a free Alabama photo voter ID from various locations including the Secretary of State's Office, local county board of registrars' offices, and a mobile location to be determined by the Secretary of State's Office.

To download the application for a free photo voter ID, click here.

Valid ID at the Polls
A voter can use any of the following forms of photo ID at the polls starting June 3, 2014:

• Valid Driver's License
• Valid Non-driver ID
• Valid Alabama Photo Voter ID
• Valid State Issued ID (Alabama or any other state)
• Valid Federal Issued ID
• Valid US Passport
• Valid Employee ID from Federal Government, State of Alabama, County Government, Municipality, Board, Authority, or other entity of this state
• Valid student or employee ID from a college or university in the State of Alabama (including postgraduate technical or professional schools)
• Valid Military ID
• Valid Tribal ID

If a voter possesses any of these forms of ID, he/she is not eligible to receive a free Alabama photo voter ID card. The voter must bring one of these photo IDs to the polls on Election Day or place a copy of the ID in absentee ballot materials.

A voter who is required to present valid photo identification but who does not do so will be allowed to vote a provisional ballot as provided for by law.

In addition, a voter who does not have a valid photo ID in his or her possession at the polls shall be permitted to vote if the individual is positively identified by two election officials as a voter on the poll list who is eligible to vote and the election officials sign a sworn affidavit so stating.

Went to the link that described the process to get an Alabama voter ID. It appears, in most cases, that people will have to have a photo ID to get a voter ID. How man people have a non-photo ID that will contain their full name and DOB? How many people who don't already have a driver's license or other state ID will have a federal ID or passport?

In order to process your application you must provide the following information:

(All of the following information can be contained in one document.)

1) a photo identification document or a non-photo identification document is acceptable if it contains your full legal name and date of birth;

2) documentation showing your date of birth;

3) documentation showing that you are an Alabama registered voter (can be electronically verified by the processing office);


4) documentation showing your name and address as reflected in your voter registration record (can be electronically verified by the processing office).

 

[Lone Clone]

Went to the link that described the process to get an Alabama voter ID. It appears, in most cases, that people will have to have a photo ID to get a voter ID. How man people have a non-photo ID that will contain their full name and DOB? How many people who don't already have a driver's license or other state ID will have a federal ID or passport?

In order to process your application you must provide the following information:

(All of the following information can be contained in one document.)

1) a photo identification document or a non-photo identification document is acceptable if it contains your full legal name and date of birth;

2) documentation showing your date of birth;

3) documentation showing that you are an Alabama registered voter (can be electronically verified by the processing office);


4) documentation showing your name and address as reflected in your voter registration record (can be electronically verified by the processing office).

No, that's not what it says at all. Did you miss "a non-photo identification document is acceptable"?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Of course it is political. Just like for your side it is political if people can just show up with a name and vote.

Except...you know...that's kinda the way it's been since...forever.

What's most telling here is that the ALEA increased fees this year in order to bring in more revenue...which would allow them to keep more offices open. The Alabama legislature then cut the ALEA's budget by the amount the higher fees were expected to bring in thus forcing the closures.

 

[TexMichFan]

Went to the link that described the process to get an Alabama voter ID. It appears, in most cases, that people will have to have a photo ID to get a voter ID. How man people have a non-photo ID that will contain their full name and DOB? How many people who don't already have a driver's license or other state ID will have a federal ID or passport?

In order to process your application you must provide the following information:

(All of the following information can be contained in one document.)

1) a photo identification document or a non-photo identification document is acceptable if it contains your full legal name and date of birth;

2) documentation showing your date of birth;

3) documentation showing that you are an Alabama registered voter (can be electronically verified by the processing office);


4) documentation showing your name and address as reflected in your voter registration record (can be electronically verified by the processing office).

I guess in your haste you decide not to share this part of the website you visited.

Examples of Non-Photo ID Documents that can be used to obtain a free Alabama Photo Voter ID card
All must contain full legal name and date of birth

• Birth Certificate *
• Hospital or nursing home record
• Marriage Record *
• State or Federal Census Record
• Military Record
• Medicare or Medicaid document
• Social Security Administration Document
• Certificate of Citizenship
• Official school record or transcript

Here is the link for people who want to see the whole site and not just the cherry picked parts.

http://www.alabamavoterid.com/getFreePhotoVoterID.aspx

 

[TexMichFan]

Except...you know...that's kinda the way it's been since...forever.

What's most telling here is that the ALEA increased fees this year in order to bring in more revenue...which would allow them to keep more offices open. The Alabama legislature then cut the ALEA's budget by the amount the higher fees were expected to bring in thus forcing the closures.

If they increased fees to keep the offices open and then cut the budget be the amount of the higher fees were expected to bring wouldn't the budget be the same as it was?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

If they increased fees to keep the offices open and then cut the budget be the amount of the higher fees were expected to bring wouldn't the budget be the same as it was?

Yeah...that's kinda the point.

You understand the math, right? Let's say the budget was $10.00 with fees accounting for $6.00 and state funding covering the other $4.00. They are not able to keep all their offices open so they increase fees with the idea of raising their budget to $11.00. Their fees would now bring in $7.00 and their overall budget is $11.00. They can use that extra revenue to maintain the status quo. Then the legislature looks at that and says "We're going to cut your funding to $3.00". So now the ALEA raised their fees to cover threatened services and the legislature has put them right back where they started.

Get it? It looks a lot like the legislature wants to make sure that offices get closed.

 

[TJ8869]

Yet another example of the potential for abuse when ID is required to vote. Alabama enacts ID laws, then closes drivers license stations in black and democratic counties.

Taken as a whole rather than cherry-picking the Black Belt counties, the 31 DMV office closings impact whites more than they impact blacks. They impact rural residents more than they impact urban residents. And - here's something you probably wouldn't have guessed - they impact Republican voters more than they impact Democratic voters.

That's a pretty diabolical scheme the Republicans hatched there, disenfranchising their own base.

 

[TexMichFan]

Yeah...that's kinda the point.

You understand the math, right? Let's say the budget was $10.00 with fees accounting for $6.00 and state funding covering the other $4.00. They are not able to keep all their offices open so they increase fees with the idea of raising their budget to $11.00. Their fees would now bring in $7.00 and their overall budget is $11.00. They can use that extra revenue to maintain the status quo. Then the legislature looks at that and says "We're going to cut your funding to $3.00". So now the ALEA raised their fees to cover threatened services and the legislature has put them right back where they started.

Get it? It looks a lot like the legislature wants to make sure that offices get closed.

Now where do you find that is what they did?

 

[whatsup12579er]

The drivers license station in my town is open like 1 day a week and closed over the lunch hour. The nearest one that is open 5 days a week is a 40 minute drive. Shockingly, I have a drivers license! How did I obtain the unobtainable? I am a responsible adult and planned a day that I could go to get one from my local office even though their hours suck.

 

[gusto79]

The drivers license station in my town is open like 1 day a week and closed over the lunch hour. The nearest one that is open 5 days a week is a 40 minute drive. Shockingly, I have a drivers license! How did I obtain the unobtainable? I am a responsible adult and planned a day that I could go to get one from my local office even though their hours suck.

You did that because you need to drive. Would you go through that trouble just to vote?

 

[CeMar_Clone]

Taken as a whole rather than cherry-picking the Black Belt counties, the 31 DMV office closings impact whites more than they impact blacks. They impact rural residents more than they impact urban residents. And - here's something you probably wouldn't have guessed - they impact Republican voters more than they impact Democratic voters.

That's a pretty diabolical scheme the Republicans hatched there, disenfranchising their own base.

I thought this article was strange for claiming that every county had a DMV office. Iowa has closed many and has no where near 99 DMV offices. I think due to technology, they are going to continue to get closed. So I looked at Alabama, and almost half their counties have now been closed. This is not a black thing, it most likely is an urban rural thing, the smaller offices are being shut down. The story is complete BS.

Apparently the argument that the Democrats are putting forth is that their voters are so hapless, they can not get an ID.

 

[whatsup12579er]

You did that because you need to drive. Would you go through that trouble just to vote?

So voting isn't very important to you? It wasn't much trouble really. I just had to take 30 seconds to figure out how I was going to obtain my license. It is what responsible adults do.

When I turned 18 I went to the courthouse to register to vote so I could vote in the presidental election taking place a couple weeks later. Again, I went out of my way to make sure I could vote. It is called being responsible. It is not a difficult thing to do.

Especially in today's age if you don't have the proper documentation to vote, you are not a responsible member of society and probably shouldn't be voting anyway because there is no way you can be informed.

 

[Lone Clone]

Taken as a whole rather than cherry-picking the Black Belt counties, the 31 DMV office closings impact whites more than they impact blacks. They impact rural residents more than they impact urban residents. And - here's something you probably wouldn't have guessed - they impact Republican voters more than they impact Democratic voters.

That's a pretty diabolical scheme the Republicans hatched there, disenfranchising their own base.

Actually, that makes me think there might be a conspiracy. That sounds dumb enough to be something the Republicans would do.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The information below is to add a little balance to the OP post. This drivers license issue is pretty much a straw man argument IMHO.

On the funding issue the closer of the bureaus was not an action of the state legislature but was decided by state law enforcement officials in response to budget cuts. The closures of the 33 offices were done across 32 counties so to single out this as a racial issue is just a tad disingenuous. They closed all satellite offices for drivers licenses not just the ones where "black people live".

Voter ID Implementation
During the 2011 Regular Legislative Session the Legislature approved House Bill 19. Governor Robert Bentley signed the bill and it was subsequently assigned Act Number 2011-673.

Beginning with the June 3, 2014 primary election, Act 2011-673 requires an Alabama voter to have a specific type of photo identification at the polls in order to vote. If a voter does not have one of the approved forms of photo ID as stated in the law, then he or she may receive a free Alabama photo voter ID from various locations including the Secretary of State's Office, local county board of registrars' offices, and a mobile location to be determined by the Secretary of State's Office.

To download the application for a free photo voter ID, click here.

Valid ID at the Polls
A voter can use any of the following forms of photo ID at the polls starting June 3, 2014:

• Valid Driver's License
• Valid Non-driver ID
• Valid Alabama Photo Voter ID
• Valid State Issued ID (Alabama or any other state)
• Valid Federal Issued ID
• Valid US Passport
• Valid Employee ID from Federal Government, State of Alabama, County Government, Municipality, Board, Authority, or other entity of this state
• Valid student or employee ID from a college or university in the State of Alabama (including postgraduate technical or professional schools)
• Valid Military ID
• Valid Tribal ID

If a voter possesses any of these forms of ID, he/she is not eligible to receive a free Alabama photo voter ID card. The voter must bring one of these photo IDs to the polls on Election Day or place a copy of the ID in absentee ballot materials.

A voter who is required to present valid photo identification but who does not do so will be allowed to vote a provisional ballot as provided for by law.

In addition, a voter who does not have a valid photo ID in his or her possession at the polls shall be permitted to vote if the individual is positively identified by two election officials as a voter on the poll list who is eligible to vote and the election officials sign a sworn affidavit so stating.

OK. I'll admit that this makes it seem not quite as bad as I thought. Thanks for doing the work.

This doesn't change my mind on why the GOP is pushing for voter IDs, you understand. But the specific Alabama situation now looks less blatant. Unless I am missing something.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that they made the budget cuts with the aim of having licensing locations cut without leaving obvious fingerprints. It's still the case that making people get IDs preferentially impacts the poor and minorities. So even if you don't overtly close places to get IDs in black and poor neighborhoods, just by having fewer places to get IDs probably exaggerates the impact on those demographics.

 

[bullshiznitz]

So the democrats argument is that minorities are too lazy or inept to accomplish the same exact process (obtaining a DL) as their fairer skinned counterparts, making this law discriminatory? So, they're basically saying minorities are less capable than white people. This is their argument, and then they have the gall to call republicans racist?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

So the democrats argument is that minorities are too lazy or inept to accomplish the same exact process (obtaining a DL) as their fairer skinned counterparts, making this law discriminatory? So, they're basically saying minorities are less capable than white people. This is their argument, and then they have the gall to call republicans racist?

No.

Stupid people might make this argument, though.

 

[bullshiznitz]

No.

Stupid people might make this argument, though.

You made the argument in the post above that obtaining a license preferentially impacts minorities. Not just the poor, but specifically pointed out minorities and more specifically blacks. Why are these demographics preferentially impacted by a law applied to all races and sexes equally?

 

[TexMichFan]

OK. I'll admit that this makes it seem not quite as bad as I thought. Thanks for doing the work.

This doesn't change my mind on why the GOP is pushing for voter IDs, you understand. But the specific Alabama situation now looks less blatant. Unless I am missing something.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that they made the budget cuts with the aim of having licensing locations cut without leaving obvious fingerprints. It's still the case that making people get IDs preferentially impacts the poor and minorities. So even if you don't overtly close places to get IDs in black and poor neighborhoods, just by having fewer places to get IDs probably exaggerates the impact on those demographics.

Since you can get a voter ID card at each county board of registrars' office there is a place in each county where you can go.

Trying to make you think you can only go to these 4 places in the whole state was a silly argument.

 

[TJ8869]

The 30 counties that are losing their DMV have a significantly lower population density than the rest of Alabama. Those 30 counties have a higher percentage of white residents than the rest of Alabama and a lower percentage of black residents than the rest of Alabama. And in the 2012 election those 30 counties voted for Mitt Romney at a higher percentage than the rest of Alabama.

So clearly the closing of the DMV offices is discriminatory. It discriminates against rural white Republican voters.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Now where do you find that is what they did?

It's what they did. I'm speculating as to the why...that's why I said, "It looks a lot like the legislature wants to make sure that offices get closed."

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

You made the argument in the post above that obtaining a license preferentially impacts minorities. Not just the poor, but specifically pointed out minorities and more specifically blacks. Why are these demographics preferentially impacted by a law applied to all races and sexes equally?

Do you honestly not understand this and can't reason it out?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

The 30 counties that are losing their DMV have a significantly lower population density than the rest of Alabama. Those 30 counties have a higher percentage of white residents than the rest of Alabama and a lower percentage of black residents than the rest of Alabama. And in the 2012 election those 30 counties voted for Mitt Romney at a higher percentage than the rest of Alabama.

So clearly the closing of the DMV offices is discriminatory. It discriminates against rural white Republican voters.

You missed one metric. A middle class rural voter is going to have much less difficulty driving a longer distance to get a driver's license than a poor rural voter. Let's see that breakdown for these counties.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Since you can get a voter ID card at each county board of registrars' office there is a place in each county where you can go.

Any idea who appoints the board members for each county?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Since you can get a voter ID card at each county board of registrars' office there is a place in each county where you can go.

Trying to make you think you can only go to these 4 places in the whole state was a silly argument.

I never made an argument that there were only 4 places. Did someone else?

Very simply, having fewer places to get the ID makes it harder to get an ID. Duh.

But does it make it equally harder for all people? No. Another duh.

If I have one of the remaining places close to me and you don't it's harder for you than for me. If I have a car and you don't, same thing. If I have a job that's easy to take time off during the hours IDs are available and you don't, again, easier for me, harder for you. If the lines are 3 hours long, maybe my employer is OK with that, but maybe yours isn't. If I'm already IDd with driver's license or passport or whatever, there's less chance I'll show up and be told I have to get some document and return.

We can go on for a long time on these. Statistically speaking, if things are even just a little harder, a small percentage of the affected demographic will give up or fail to complete the task. That's just reality.

So the only question is whether the demographics that are more negatively affected are more likely to vote D or R. What do you think?

You can say "it's not my fault" as some have done, and that's true. But so what?

You can say "it's their own fault" as many have done, and that may be true for some, but often isn't. And even if it is true, so what?

As has been pointed out so often that no one can really deny it, so-called voter fraud isn't much of a problem. But the "solution" - requiring IDs - is a problem. And when you reduce the opportunity to get the required ID, you exacerbate the problem.

If this solution did NOT preferentially depress likely D voters, do you think the GOP would be pushing for it? Sure, some individual Rs would like the idea. Frankly, even though voter fraud is a trivial problem, I would be happy to eliminate it, too. But would the party be making a fuss about it if it helped Ds? Surely you don't believe that.

Note that when libs like me offer to compromise on having an ID if we also agree to make sure everyone who wants to vote and is eligible to vote gets an ID, our cons change topics. That would mean likely D voters aren't harmed. Heck, it might even encourage a few more to show up and vote. That is NOT what the GOP wants.