ADVERTISEMENT

Wadley

so you guys are willing to toss these guys under the bus or listen to what they are saying?








there may be truth in it all. let us listen to them.

By all means, listen to them. But also ask questions. That's the part that is missing. Todd Brommelkamp, PHARTY, Chad Lestikow, Morehouse, The fraud Rob Howe and so on need to do their job and ask the tough questions to these guys. Why are you completely changing your tune? Is it true you tried to get your brother a scholly? Did anyone else witness these events? Do your Fu c king jobs you hacks. Maybe there is an explanation. Maybe we find out these guys are full of sh it.
 
Here is a kid that I believe the coaches rode very hard and likely for good reason. The kid needed the additional weight and drive to play running back in the Big Ten. Because he was pushed so hard he became a star. There are a lot of HS age kids that don't like their parents so much. Later they will thank them.
 
I think it's much more subtle than that. I believe the players that have spoken out about the things they experienced and I'm disappointed that it could happen at Iowa. I'm not surprised though not because I think the football program is full of racists but because it's our tendency to get comfortable with what we are doing without recognizing that others may experience it totally different than we intended. I think KF's response has been nearly perfect now that he has to take a hard look at what's been happening. Things like the twitter ban or what music is played in the weight room can be easy fixes once those in power understand the importance. The worst possible response would be to dig in and double down and push back as you say.
Nicely put! Yeah ... the problem is that many folks simply aren't reflective on their actions and/or how their actions might be perceived by others. Kirk himself quickly acknowledged that the experiences of his black players fell somewhat within his "blindspot." The clear message there is that Kirk was acknowledging that his players were experiencing a form of discrimination ... even though the spirit of Iowa's policies weren't intended to be discriminatory whatsoever.

Despite any lack of intentionality ... it's still easily recognizable that what the players experienced was REAL (an institutionalized form of discrimination). The good news is that it is also something that can be pretty easily addressed. Kirk already encourages reflection as it relates to football-related things ... so it's not hard for this to extend to explicit practices on how the coaches interact/interface with the players. Of course, if we're unable to walk in another man's shoes ... we need to the other man to explain to us how things are from their perspective. In the past, this wasn't happening because of the power-differential between the players and the coaches. However, with the new advocacy program for the players - headed by both parents and former players - that hopefully will empower the players to communicate so that the coaches can receive that much-needed feedback.
 
Nicely put! Yeah ... the problem is that many folks simply aren't reflective on their actions and/or how their actions might be perceived by others. Kirk himself quickly acknowledged that the experiences of his black players fell somewhat within his "blindspot." The clear message there is that Kirk was acknowledging that his players were experiencing a form of discrimination ... even though the spirit of Iowa's policies weren't intended to be discriminatory whatsoever.

Despite any lack of intentionality ... it's still easily recognizable that what the players experienced was REAL (an institutionalized form of discrimination). The good news is that it is also something that can be pretty easily addressed. Kirk already encourages reflection as it relates to football-related things ... so it's not hard for this to extend to explicit practices on how the coaches interact/interface with the players. Of course, if we're unable to walk in another man's shoes ... we need to the other man to explain to us how things are from their perspective. In the past, this wasn't happening because of the power-differential between the players and the coaches. However, with the new advocacy program for the players - headed by both parents and former players - that hopefully will empower the players to communicate so that the coaches can receive that much-needed feedback.

yes, 1000 times yes. I think we will see that players are much more willing to speak up and to do it within the team rather than on social media in the future because of this experience. It's been interesting to me that the twitter ban was lifted and there were lots of tweets from current players. Now there are almost none. I'm sure part is from being tired from working their asses off in camp but I also think that part is because they are working together in private to fix the things that need to be fixed.
 
The poster wondered if KF felt betrayed by the players and I think he probably feels even more betrayed by Doyle.
I don't think "betrayed" would be the correct word. I think what happened at Iowa is what is happening all over this country, and that's a lack of understanding the backgrounds of those who grew up differently than you. I think KF felt some of the stories with Doyle touched too close to racism, and that's why he was let go.
I think KF and Doyle are classic old school coaches. Their "my house, my way" mentality has run it's course with modern day athletes. I think their policies and procedures affected young black men in the program to feel slighted against because of their color. I also do not think that was their intention. Conversations are happening between coaches and players to better this, and that's the only way we can all improve as humans. This is why I dont' think KF should be let go. Give him a chance to learn and do better. Do I think BF or KF are racist, I do not. Being a "dick" as a coach isn't a fireable offense.
With all that said, if we are going to push being understanding on one side (players), we need to do the same for the other. When I say understand, I mean understand the difference between what Daniels and other players are pushing for, and what DJK and Wadley are pushing for. These are not the same. With the dawn of social media, a claim is now interpreted as guilt, and that's not fair either. KF has to sit there and take all of these accusations, and isn't allowed to defend himself. AW knows this. DJK knows this. KF is in a no win situation, whether he responds or sits still, he's guilty in the eyes of many, no matter the outcome. I still believe many in this country think the Duke Lacrosse team raped that girl.
 
My dream is that each player is important, valued, heard but also challenged to do greater things than they even think possible. I think that the program can have high standards and expectations but go about requiring effort without creating an environment where players feel like they have to walk on egg shells.

Happy people work harder in almost any line of work so why should Iowa Football be any different? I think we will be better for it when some changes to how things have been done in the past.

This is some "parenting with no discipline" stuff.

"Hello and Welcome to Iowa football fall camp. Our goal here is to make sure everyone in this room is happy. We will accept you for who you are and how you wish to act during your time here in Iowa City."

That how you wish to see it??
 
I don't think "betrayed" would be the correct word. I think what happened at Iowa is what is happening all over this country, and that's a lack of understanding the backgrounds of those who grew up differently than you. I think KF felt some of the stories with Doyle touched too close to racism, and that's why he was let go.
I think KF and Doyle are classic old school coaches. Their "my house, my way" mentality has run it's course with modern day athletes. I think their policies and procedures affected young black men in the program to feel slighted against because of their color. I also do not think that was their intention. Conversations are happening between coaches and players to better this, and that's the only way we can all improve as humans. This is why I dont' think KF should be let go. Give him a chance to learn and do better. Do I think BF or KF are racist, I do not. Being a "dick" as a coach isn't a fireable offense.
With all that said, if we are going to push being understanding on one side (players), we need to do the same for the other. When I say understand, I mean understand the difference between what Daniels and other players are pushing for, and what DJK and Wadley are pushing for. These are not the same. With the dawn of social media, a claim is now interpreted as guilt, and that's not fair either. KF has to sit there and take all of these accusations, and isn't allowed to defend himself. AW knows this. DJK knows this. KF is in a no win situation, whether he responds or sits still, he's guilty in the eyes of many, no matter the outcome. I still believe many in this country think the Duke Lacrosse team raped that girl.

I totally agree that there is a huge difference between DJK, Akrum and everyone else mostly being the agenda behind them like you said. I think KF's response was great and true. I think he truly didn't know that this is how so many players felt and that he deeply regrets they left the program feeling that way. I believe that change is hard for KF but once he sees the benefit, he's very open to make changes, even huge ones, to make the program better.

I used betrayed because I think that KF and Doyle are friends as well as colleagues. I think KF let Doyle do what he wanted trusting him. I think many players saw that relationship and didn't think it would do any good to say anything because of how close the two were.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obviously Oblivious
This is some "parenting with no discipline" stuff.

"Hello and Welcome to Iowa football fall camp. Our goal here is to make sure everyone in this room is happy. We will accept you for who you are and how you wish to act during your time here in Iowa City."

That how you wish to see it??

We live in a world now where public schools let kids take a test multiple times until they get a grade they like. The school administrators don't want kids feeling any pressure or anxiety about anything. I am not sure which employers will pay employees not to be prepared to do jobs correctly the first time, but maybe there are some out there that will.
 
1 - he made me the butt of a joke
2 - he swore at me
3 - my coach said something to the media for which I cannot tell you the context of his response
4 - they made me eat to gain weight / they wanted me to gain weight (oh and that was a black thing)

How can somebody read this and give it any credibility in light of real issues around the country?
 
This is some "parenting with no discipline" stuff.

"Hello and Welcome to Iowa football fall camp. Our goal here is to make sure everyone in this room is happy. We will accept you for who you are and how you wish to act during your time here in Iowa City."

That how you wish to see it??

Don't be so overdramatic. No one is arguing that the players should get to do whatever they want whenever they want without any rules.

"Hello and Welcome to Iowa football fall camp. Our goal here is to make sure everyone in this room is pushed to reach his maximum potential to benefit this team. At Iowa, there are requirements of each of you as an individual and of each of you as a teammate. We expect that you will meet and exceed those requirements as you fulfill your obligation to leave the jersey in a better place."
 
I don't know all the allegations that have been floating around about Iowa, but the vast majority of them have been based on Doyle. Other players from what I have heard said Kirk gets it, and he is not the problem. DJK and Akrum are (as far as I know) the only players slamming Kirk. Is it a coincidence that both DJK and Wadley spent time in Kirk's doghouse? "My opinion" is these two have an axe to grind with Kirk and (not that it matters), I take little stock as to what they have to say.
 
1 - he made me the butt of a joke
2 - he swore at me
3 - my coach said something to the media for which I cannot tell you the context of his response
4 - they made me eat to gain weight / they wanted me to gain weight (oh and that was a black thing)

How can somebody read this and give it any credibility in light of real issues around the country?

The joke was a little insensitive and I don’t have an issue with that complaint or even swearing. As a coach - I have had to calm way down over the last 15 years and I am a better coach now because of it. Still get after players and yell... but choosing wording that players respond to.

The problem I have is the rest of his statement that is contradictory to everything he has posted since graduation and someone who steals money isn’t credible either. Are there real issues in the program? Yup! However, Akrum and DJK are discrediting all of positive change and constructive criticism being received by credible sources.

It is no different than rioters hijacking the message that non-violent protestors are trying to get across.
 
You could have just said you don't understand how contracts work and saved yourself some time.

Both sides were advised by attorneys. There was an employment contract. To justify no payout there had to be cause shown. Obviously Doyle and attorneys would have fought that vigorously and it would be drawn out over a year or two, and you would have easily had hundreds of thousands eaten up in legal fees. It's called cutting your losses on both sides.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Randall Stanhope
Don't be so overdramatic. No one is arguing that the players should get to do whatever they want whenever they want without any rules.

"Hello and Welcome to Iowa football fall camp. Our goal here is to make sure everyone in this room is pushed to reach his maximum potential to benefit this team. At Iowa, there are requirements of each of you as an individual and of each of you as a teammate. We expect that you will meet and exceed those requirements as you fulfill your obligation to leave the jersey in a better place."
Lol these guys couldn't even handle an opening statement like that, clearly...

They want what they want and when they don't get it... it's the blame game.
 
Many of the other accounts are credible. However, some accounts such as Wadley and DJK are over the top, which brings into question the credibility of the account as well as the credibility of the player, especially when the player has been accused of stealing from fans and a recent anonymous allegation that the player may have sexually assaulted a female student during his time at Iowa.

DJK's issues also are well known. He had a felony drug conviction and multiple other run ins with the law at Iowa.

Just to set the record straight, DJK was never convicted of a felony drug charge. He pled guilty to possession of marijuana, which in Iowa is a misdemeanor. I see this fallacy quite a lot around here.
 
Both sides were advised by attorneys. There was an employment contract. To justify no payout there had to be cause shown. Obviously Doyle and attorneys would have fought that vigorously and it would be drawn out over a year or two, and you would have easily had hundreds of thousands eaten up in legal fees. It's called cutting your losses on both sides.
That's exactly what I was saying.
 
Don't be so overdramatic. No one is arguing that the players should get to do whatever they want whenever they want without any rules.

"Hello and Welcome to Iowa football fall camp. Our goal here is to make sure everyone in this room is pushed to reach his maximum potential to benefit this team. At Iowa, there are requirements of each of you as an individual and of each of you as a teammate. We expect that you will meet and exceed those requirements as you fulfill your obligation to leave the jersey in a better place."
What makes you think that wasn’t done? I have former players of mine that have played at Iowa some starters and some Walkons. They all knew this coming in. The fact that some have varying degees of understanding what that statement means is the issue. It’s not a black/white thing. Doyle was going to be a problem going forward he had to go. But to label a man a racist without real proof is a joke.
if you can link Doyle to drug testing where black players were tested at a different rate than white players then you’ve got a potential racist story. I’ll wait for that story to come out but for now to call someone a racist with what has come out has been embarrassing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Old_wrestling_fan
Loved Akrum as a player but this all about getting the pay day in another way that he wanted and mom wanted. It’s sad, even if he wins it due to a wussy society, that his only option for a future was an NFL contract when the odds are so slim. So many think they are making it until they don’t.

That’s why his PR firm is forcing extreme statements and accusations they know Iowa will not challenge because it’s best to say nothing. He’s not being truthful in all aspects but there’s no penalty for fabrication today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaboKP
He was out drinking so he could cope with the heartache of going to Iowa because his coach was pissed at him.

Does anyone who ever went to college remember anyone you were aquainted with that never binge drank on occasion in college? The parties are half the fun of college.
 
Loved Akrum as a player but this all about getting the pay day in another way that he wanted and mom wanted. It’s sad, even if he wins it due to a wussy society, that his only option for a future was an NFL contract when the odds are so slim. So many think they are making it until they don’t.

That’s why his PR firm is forcing extreme statements and accusations they know Iowa will not challenge because it’s best to say nothing. He’s not being truthful in all aspects but there’s no penalty for fabrication today.

Have to walk the line of challenging and accusation but not so much where they just say F and we are gonna fight this until the end. If one was looking for a pay out, you want to try to get settlement money to go away, but if you push too far then you just go to court and probably end up with 0.
 
I wish, so badly, that the coaches would publicly respond to this in a non-politically correct fashion..

..Speak their minds on this situation and tell it how it is/was.

We can't go on and just allow these players to come out of the woodwork and completely TRASH the university of Iowa FB program without a real response... is this how it's gonna play out? Nobody from the other side speaking non-PC?

Dumbest.Idea.Ever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hawkbirch
The amount of denial among the fanbase is on a par with PSU, MSU, Nebraska, etc. One of two things is true. A system of abuse and bullying up to and including racism existed in KFs program that he would have been FULLY aware of or
A lot of people are jumping on the victim bandwagon hoping for their fifteen minutes of fame. I believe it is the latter and KF let Doyle be the sacrificial lamb to keep his program in place. I have lost all respect for him.
So you've heard enough gossip to fire the staff and give his mom $4-5M to shut up?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DougFHawkeye
Don't be so overdramatic. No one is arguing that the players should get to do whatever they want whenever they want without any rules.

"Hello and Welcome to Iowa football fall camp. Our goal here is to make sure everyone in this room is pushed to reach his maximum potential to benefit this team. At Iowa, there are requirements of each of you as an individual and of each of you as a teammate. We expect that you will meet and exceed those requirements as you fulfill your obligation to leave the jersey in a better place."

I appreciate your comments here ITT and if you've been paying attention at all you know that I echo your thoughts and beliefs on this issue. I've decided to take a hiatus for now on this specific subject here on HROT as I can't continue to read some of the garbage being posted here by the usual ignoramuses (you know who you are!) as it just seems pointless to continue as their minds are already stuck in neutral on the subject and are letting even politics leak into the discussion. I compare the dialogue with them to this, but keep fighting the good fight!

thats-fine-i-will-continue-on-talking-to-the-walland-banging-my-head-against-it.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: hawkbirch
Perhaps I am out of touch, being 48 yrs old and living a majority of my life in the predominantly white Des Moines area, but we were diverse enough to have hispanic, african american and asian kids as teammates growing up. When involved in sports, coaches were HARD on all players and race was never deemed a factor in my eyes. If you screwed up, you got yelled at. You were called slang words for being physically weak or weak minded.
I don't want to paint this situation with a broad brush, but how many Iowa players (White) were talked to in a similar manner and never gave it a 2nd thought?
Some of these kids should be forced to watch the first 5 minutes of Full Metal Jacket to know what tough treatment is all about.

Most of the comments that were directed around Doyle indicated that he (Doyle) was treating/talking to the African american players differently than the rest. If that is true - and a number of former white players supported those statements, then that is a problem.

Here is a kid that I believe the coaches rode very hard and likely for good reason. The kid needed the additional weight and drive to play running back in the Big Ten. Because he was pushed so hard he became a star. There are a lot of HS age kids that don't like their parents so much. Later they will thank them.

That was part that confused me too. It's not like Wadley fluctuated with his weight. He had a lot of trouble reaching that target weight and staying there. We saw flashes as a frosh and soph for him but he had difficulty maintaining that.

I totally agree that there is a huge difference between DJK, Akrum and everyone else mostly being the agenda behind them like you said. I think KF's response was great and true. I think he truly didn't know that this is how so many players felt and that he deeply regrets they left the program feeling that way. I believe that change is hard for KF but once he sees the benefit, he's very open to make changes, even huge ones, to make the program better.

I used betrayed because I think that KF and Doyle are friends as well as colleagues. I think KF let Doyle do what he wanted trusting him. I think many players saw that relationship and didn't think it would do any good to say anything because of how close the two were.

Some of that is an extension of the "Union Card" that gets brought up about Kirk periodically. If you get in his circle of trust, you're golden. Nearly impossible to fall out of that. Conversely, land in the doghouse and it was really hard to climb out of there. Wadley was a guy I thought had managed to pull that off, but Kirk and the other coaches pushed him hard. If there's a flaw in Kirk about this, it's that he needs to do better at identifying when guys screw up early on and make amends or start strong but screw up later. It's something that he tends to be a bit rigid about.
 
What makes you think that wasn’t done? I have former players of mine that have played at Iowa some starters and some Walkons. They all knew this coming in. The fact that some have varying degees of understanding what that statement means is the issue. It’s not a black/white thing. Doyle was going to be a problem going forward he had to go. But to label a man a racist without real proof is a joke.
if you can link Doyle to drug testing where black players were tested at a different rate than white players then you’ve got a potential racist story. I’ll wait for that story to come out but for now to call someone a racist with what has come out has been embarrassing.

I've never called Doyle a racist nor do I believe that he is one. I think that he said some insensitive things not understanding how they were being received. I don't believe he intentionally set out to offend or demean anyone.
 
I've never called Doyle a racist nor do I believe that he is one. I think that he said some insensitive things not understanding how they were being received. I don't believe he intentionally set out to offend or demean anyone.
Do you disagree that he has been labeled a racist by most if not all media outlets?
And I’m sorry to burst some bubbles but this is pretty much how all football programs run. It’s just that most schools have had coaches for such a short period of time there’s no one out there complaining.
 
ADVERTISEMENT