Watch the Illinois at Nebraska meet to see the ref swallow the whistle . . .

[HoundedHawk]

. . . when going out of the circle.

Terrible, just terrible. I fear it as a preview of what we will see at nationals. No matter what happens the ref just called it "action". Zero impetus to stay on the mat.

Even the student commentators brought up the concept of many just wanting a simple "push out" rule.

 

[artradley]

. . . when going out of the circle.

Terrible, just terrible. I fear it as a preview of what we will see at nationals. No matter what happens the ref just called it "action". Zero impetus to stay on the mat.

Even the student commentators brought up the concept of many just wanting a simple "push out" rule.

Gotta go with the pushout.

I thought the new rule could work - with heavy reservations about calling a stall on a wrestler for pushing the other guy out -- but it's not working. We need more scoring and more action.

 

[MSU158]

I am so solidly against push outs for a multitude of reasons.

1.)It in no way guarantees more scoring.
2.)Backing up will simply turn into more circling.
3.)Many takedowns will become pushouts because it is easier to push the guy out than keep him in and finish the move.
4.)Single leg defense will be hurt immensely. I am actually impressed by guys that can hop forever and do the splits. This will now end in a push out.
5.)Some of the VERY best action occurs at the OB line, including pins.
6.)Folkstyle is fundamentally different than Freestyle and should remain so.
7.)Controlling your opponent is a key component of folkstyle. Pushing someone out of bounds doesn't fit that with me.
8.)Other than the Elite 285's, 285 will become Sumo matches.
9.)Where do you start and stop? Only in neutral?
10.)It makes sense in a sport(Freestyle) that has nearly become a neutral wrestling style. However, folkstyle is as much about mat wrestling as it is on your feet. Pushouts add another perspective to devalue mat wrestling.

 

[artradley]

I am so solidly against push outs for a multitude of reasons.

1.)It in now way guarantees more scoring.
2.)Backing up will simply turn into more circling.
3.)Many takedowns will become pushouts because it is easier to push the guy out than keep him in and finish the move.
4.)Single leg defense will be hurt immensely. I am actually impressed by guys that can hop forever and do the splits. This will now end in a push out.
5.)Some of the VERY best action occurs at the OB line, including pins.
6.)Folkstyle is fundamentally different than Freestyle and should remain so.
7.)Controlling your opponent is a key component of folkstyle. Pushing someone out of bounds doesn't fit that with me.
8.)Other than the Elite 285's, 285 will become Sumo matches.
9.)Where do you start and stop? Only in neutral?
10.)It makes sense in a sport(Freestyle) that has nearly become a neutral wrestling style. However, folkstyle is as much about mat wrestling as it is on your feet. Pushouts add another perspective to devalue mat wrestling.

I'm not sure why there is question about where they would start -- there is no reason for a change. The pushout rule is specifically to create action/scoring from the neutral, where there is currently inadequate action and too much stalling. Folkstyle is about control; if you are able to take your opponent out of the circle you controlled him. If you take him down you controlled him even more. I see no way this make Folkstyle look even remotely like Freestyle.

While I appreciate good single leg defense, I have no problem with a leg up in the air resulting in a one-point pushout (which happens in Freestyle a lot). Yeah, it's good to have single leg defense, but once you not only allowed them to get in deep on your leg, but also failed to stuff their head and instead allowed them to get that leg up in the air -- well, you kind deserve to give up a point.

There is definitely too much stalling in wrestling. Officials are loath to call it, and it's hard to blame them because it sucks to have matched decided by an official's subjective judgement. The push-out would result in several very objective improvements. It takes subjectivity out of the match, it would penalize defensive wrestling, it would stimulate action, and it would result in more scoring.

As for the 285 pound matches, I don't really see anything that could make them more boring than they already are. It's really almost an entirely different sport, anyway. Frankly, two big guys trying to push each other out of bounds would be WAY more exciting than the typical 285 pound match today.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I would at the very least like to see takedowns worth 3 points and riding time only in play if nearfall exists. The pushout rule, while not perfect, is better than the current rule because less interpretation on the ref's behalf is called for. I would also like to see control ties such as underhooks and especially the 2 on 1 Russian called stalling after a five count if a level change doesn't occur. Too many guys establish these ties with zero intention of scoring points.

 

[hoythawk]

Check out the ending to the Ryan Taylor match against Purdue iirc. It was on Big Tens wrestling in 60 this week.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I'm not sure why there is question about where they would start -- there is no reason for a change. The pushout rule is specifically to create action/scoring from the neutral, where there is currently inadequate action and too much stalling. Folkstyle is about control; if you are able to take your opponent out of the circle you controlled him. If you take him down you controlled him even more. I see no way this make Folkstyle look even remotely like Freestyle.

While I appreciate good single leg defense, I have no problem with a leg up in the air resulting in a one-point pushout (which happens in Freestyle a lot). Yeah, it's good to have single leg defense, but once you not only allowed them to get in deep on your leg, but also failed to stuff their head and instead allowed them to get that leg up in the air -- well, you kind deserve to give up a point.

There is definitely too much stalling in wrestling. Officials are loath to call it, and it's hard to blame them because it sucks to have matched decided by an official's subjective judgement. The push-out would result in several very objective improvements. It takes subjectivity out of the match, it would penalize defensive wrestling, it would stimulate action, and it would result in more scoring.

As for the 285 pound matches, I don't really see anything that could make them more boring than they already are. It's really almost an entirely different sport, anyway. Frankly, two big guys trying to push each other out of bounds would be WAY more exciting than the typical 285 pound match today.

As for making folkstyle look more like freestyle, I have no idea why anyone wouldn't want that these days. I don't think there's much doubt that freestyle, in its current form, is a more action-filled and entertaining sport than folkstyle. Isn't that what folkstyle fans want? Furthermore, the push-out rule has been shown, in freestyle, to encourage action and keep the action in the center -- precisely what folkstyle is seeking. IMO, it's a total no-brainer.

And if anyone is wondering whether refs will swallow their whistles on the edge at Nationals, rest assured -- they will. Sure, some will have the guts to make the call, but there's no doubt that others won't, and therein lies the problem -- the rule won't be applied consistently, just like stalling, and controversy will result. I have almost no doubt that there will be some big matches lost due to inconsistent application of the new rules governing wrestling on the edge.

 

[Bryowan]

MSU, no disrespect, and I agree with some of what you say, but it seems to me that some of your reasons contradict each other or even themselves.

Also, I am not sure how much Sumo you've ever actually seen, but there is a LOT at stake with a pushout in that sport, and it is only one of several ways to win instantly.

I'm talking fame, ranking, cash, endorsements, food and more- seriously. It's all on the line for those guys if they get pushed out or even just tossed, taken down, forced to hit an illegal move, etc.

Just once and the match is over, therefore in its own way, not so boring if you can see through the stereotypes.

Personally I'd like to see at least some of the same emphasis in folkstyle.

 

[hazeydave]

Honestly i dont really enjoy freestyle. Specifically that you can tie a guy up and roll him around with the same hold and, literally, tech fall in seconds. Match over. Of course i dont enjoy the 2-1 folkstyle with no takedowns, two escapes and a riding time point for the winner.

I really enjoy a high scoring folkstyle match

 

[rafferty06]

Refs. are always going to be at fault for everything and also the rule makers. Let's not put anything on the wrestlers for dancing for 3 to 7 min. That's why they are forced to make rules like this. If a ref can count to 5 sec. for stalling than maybe he could keep count up to three legal shots and award an offensive man for taking shots?

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I am so solidly against push outs for a multitude of reasons.

1.)It in now way guarantees more scoring.
2.)Backing up will simply turn into more circling.
3.)Many takedowns will become pushouts because it is easier to push the guy out than keep him in and finish the move.
4.)Single leg defense will be hurt immensely. I am actually impressed by guys that can hop forever and do the splits. This will now end in a push out.
5.)Some of the VERY best action occurs at the OB line, including pins.
6.)Folkstyle is fundamentally different than Freestyle and should remain so.
7.)Controlling your opponent is a key component of folkstyle. Pushing someone out of bounds doesn't fit that with me.
8.)Other than the Elite 285's, 285 will become Sumo matches.
9.)Where do you start and stop? Only in neutral?
10.)It makes sense in a sport(Freestyle) that has nearly become a neutral wrestling style. However, folkstyle is as much about mat wrestling as it is on your feet. Pushouts add another perspective to devalue mat wrestling.

I don't think a single one of these reasons is really all that legitimate. Have you watched freestyle lately? Based on this list, I'd guess not.

I had precisely the same concern about #8, but freestyle has shown it to be completely unfounded. Furthermore, edge wrestling in freestyle is extremely exciting, because either guy can score there -- the aggressor can easily have his momentum used against him -- and push-out attempts naturally become secondary to keeping the action in the center, because everyone knows that an offense based on the push-out is likely to backfire.

Adding the push-out to folkstyle does virtually nothing to change the aspect of control. It only encourages action, keeps the action in the center, and minimizes subjectivity from these calls on the edge.

 

[MSU158]

wwdmhawkeye,

I have found this is one of those topics similar to politics or religion. You are pretty much either strongly on one side or the other and have little chance at changing the other's mind. I honestly don't find freestyle all that exciting and that is with the absolute best in the world doing it. Change all wrestling to that style, decrease the talent level and I just don't think it will be near as good as people think...................

 

[Kwoodhawk]

wwdmhawkeye,

I have found this is one of those topics similar to politics or religion. You are pretty much either strongly on one side or the other and have little chance at changing the other's mind. I honestly don't find freestyle all that exciting and that is with the absolute best in the world doing it. Change all wrestling to that style, decrease the talent level and I just don't think it will be near as good as people think...................

OH WOW..............I just got a visual of Rutherfort leg-lacing Brandon and taking him across the mat in 10 seconds flat. Game over. Damn!

Oh well gotta wait for the rematch next year I guess.

 

[MSU158]

Kwoodhawk,

Hard to tell by your tone, but are you saying that type of tech fall is entertaining? Not only that, but that type of style of scoring points? If so, we can agree to disagree. If not, you get my point!

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Kwoodhawk,

Hard to tell by your tone, but are you saying that type of tech fall is entertaining? Not only that, but that type of style of scoring points? If so, we can agree to disagree. If not, you get my point!

If you can leg lace really good and end a match that way ..........you are not necessarily a good wrestler, just a good leg lacer. I would rather watch a 2-1 tiebreaker 3, boring, defensive struggle. Oh Man....................I just described T-Shirt.

Ok I take it all back.....kinda.

 

[Spicolli]

. . .
Even the student commentators brought up the concept of many just wanting a simple "push out" rule.

Speaking of the student announcers - these guys were fantastic. The most knowledgeable duo I've heard yet. They did a great job - knew a lot of personal moves (Neb wrestlers obviously), knew technically what a wrestler was trying to do while going for a turn or takedown - really enjoyed listening to those guys.

 

[PSU Mike]

Speaking of the student announcers - these guys were fantastic. The most knowledgeable duo I've heard yet. They did a great job - knew a lot of personal moves (Neb wrestlers obviously), knew technically what a wrestler was trying to do while going for a turn or takedown - really enjoyed listening to those guys.

Now that they made fists in the back legal ...

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I don't care for the tech falls via one takedown and a series of guts or laces in freestyle. I think scoring on exposures should be limited to once per hold, as in folkstyle. I'd freestyle made this change, I'd have almost no issues at all with freestyle rules. I think it's the one thing keeping freestyle from being absolutely fantastic.

 

[dicemen99]

I was pretty much in MSU158's camp and really thought the new OOB stalling rules would end up as a cluster. And the inconsistency in the officiating early on pretty much confirmed my fears, and I figured NCAAs would be the end of this rule after the outcry that would surely follow.

However, I have witnessed some matches this year where it was called consistently and most of the wrestlers have started to adapt (unlike the opening match of the year). When this is done, the new rule IS, in fact, having the desired effect.

But back to the inconsistency part -

On a local HS board I frequent, we have a poster who is a NCAA referee evaluator. We started this discussion last week and he weighed in with a very interesting post:

"Confidence - Full disclosure, I'm a paid national NCAA evaluator of officials I'm not saying there won't be mistakes, officials are human after all, no really they are! However, just watch a Big 10 match or PAC12 match on TV if you get those networks. The top officials, the ones who will be working the NCAA D1 tournament (I know the names of the 20 selected), are already conditioned to making the stalling call for going OOB on your feet in neutral. It is now second nature to them. What we have been concentrating in the last month or so on making sure that the normal stalling calls for lack of offense or blocking, etc are still being called aggressively and not being lost in need to pay so much attention to going OOB on their feet...

I can say that the NCAA has done a tremendous job of communicating rules interpretations and video examples of these interpretations to all officials this year for the first time.

The area where we are looking for more consistency in stalling calls is on the mat, particularly in a legs situation. The 5 second count on moves like dropping below the butt or the side head lock to ride has pretty much been fixed with the count rule.

There is meeting for officials on Wednesday evening before the start of the tournament where the NCAA Rules Editor and Coordinator of Officials go over all the new rules and interpretations issued during the season. They talk about how the NCAA wants certain situations called. Officials receive written evaluations after each session and there is a meeting before the next session to reinforce the rules and what the NCAA expects.

Will all of this make the officiating perfect? Of course not, but I suspect you will be complaining a lot more about how stalling was called in Hershey than in NYC. Make sure you read up on the college rules so you know what must be called and what judgement is still left to the official.

I will be interested to hear what you think after the season."

After reading this AND seeing some of the matches he refers to with the top officials, I am certainly willing to defer judgement until post-NCAA. He makes a later post about the reduction in neutral stalling this year in the NCAA - which I agree with - and how the biggest problem now with inconsistency is stalling calls on the mat. He also agrees that there is inconsistency in the OOB rule, but that it is now pretty much the "not so top" officials. As time goes on, that should also lessen.

 

[hawknut]

In folkstyle, I have always thought the first takedown should be rewarded more, and have been plus/minus on riding time. Too many guys win a match without an offensive point. Too many guys have a top game designed to ride for time and not offense. That is boring. Too many guys wrestle not to lose and wrestle to try to get to the rideouts in OT. Thats what Mega/Tsirtsis/Howe all did. That is boring and fosters defensive wrestling, especially for the big guys. Give the first takedown in regulation the win if the match ends in a tie. Or give the first takedown 3 points. Or, in the case of a tie, you could award the win to the first offensive point scored. If there no takedown, then give it to the first backpoints, or first reversal. Wrestling for overtime has become an awful epidemic. If there are no offensive points scored, then do a coin flip or, as stupid as the ball grab was, do something like that. It will at least discourage wrestlers from trying to get to overtime.

 

[artradley]

I don't care for the tech falls via one takedown and a series of guts or laces in freestyle. I think scoring on exposures should be limited to once per hold, as in folkstyle. I'd freestyle made this change, I'd have almost no issues at all with freestyle rules. I think it's the one thing keeping freestyle from being absolutely fantastic.

My biggest problem with freestyle is the ability to score back points without having control of the opponent. The worst scenario, and one that continuously used to kill Metcalf, was when one wrestler gets in deep on a leg attack, and the defender "rolls" him as he tries to finish the takedown. He can even successfully complete the TD and STILL give up back points. This was really bad when a TD was only one point, and really encouraged passive wrestling; because it's flat stupid to risk two exposure points in order to score one TD point. It seemed to me that in close matches the better wrestler usually lost, which is insane.

Now that the TD is worth two points it's made a big difference. But I still can't take one wrestler getting in on a leg attack and then giving up exposure points.

My second biggest problem with freestyle is the mundaneness of the mat wrestling. Once one wrestler is down the top wrestler has exactly two choices: leg lace and gut wrench. Period. Compared to the endless possibilities in folkstyle it almost seems as if they should not even bother -- which they practically don't since within 10 seconds the ref is going to blow the whistle. You might as well just make it a TD contest and be done with it.

I do believe it's actually kind of exciting to watch. But my excitement is tempered by knowing that the rules don't really promote ensuring that the best "wrestler" wins.



The only thing I really like about Freestyle is, frankly, the pushout rule.

 

[HoundedHawk]

I was pretty much in MSU158's camp and really thought the new OOB stalling rules would end up as a cluster. And the inconsistency in the officiating early on pretty much confirmed my fears, and I figured NCAAs would be the end of this rule after the outcry that would surely follow.

However, I have witnessed some matches this year where it was called consistently and most of the wrestlers have started to adapt (unlike the opening match of the year). When this is done, the new rule IS, in fact, having the desired effect.

But back to the inconsistency part -

On a local HS board I frequent, we have a poster who is a NCAA referee evaluator. We started this discussion last week and he weighed in with a very interesting post:

"Confidence - Full disclosure, I'm a paid national NCAA evaluator of officials I'm not saying there won't be mistakes, officials are human after all, no really they are! However, just watch a Big 10 match or PAC12 match on TV if you get those networks. The top officials, the ones who will be working the NCAA D1 tournament (I know the names of the 20 selected), are already conditioned to making the stalling call for going OOB on your feet in neutral. It is now second nature to them. What we have been concentrating in the last month or so on making sure that the normal stalling calls for lack of offense or blocking, etc are still being called aggressively and not being lost in need to pay so much attention to going OOB on their feet...

I can say that the NCAA has done a tremendous job of communicating rules interpretations and video examples of these interpretations to all officials this year for the first time.

The area where we are looking for more consistency in stalling calls is on the mat, particularly in a legs situation. The 5 second count on moves like dropping below the butt or the side head lock to ride has pretty much been fixed with the count rule.

There is meeting for officials on Wednesday evening before the start of the tournament where the NCAA Rules Editor and Coordinator of Officials go over all the new rules and interpretations issued during the season. They talk about how the NCAA wants certain situations called. Officials receive written evaluations after each session and there is a meeting before the next session to reinforce the rules and what the NCAA expects.

Will all of this make the officiating perfect? Of course not, but I suspect you will be complaining a lot more about how stalling was called in Hershey than in NYC. Make sure you read up on the college rules so you know what must be called and what judgement is still left to the official.

I will be interested to hear what you think after the season."

After reading this AND seeing some of the matches he refers to with the top officials, I am certainly willing to defer judgement until post-NCAA. He makes a later post about the reduction in neutral stalling this year in the NCAA - which I agree with - and how the biggest problem now with inconsistency is stalling calls on the mat. He also agrees that there is inconsistency in the OOB rule, but that it is now pretty much the "not so top" officials. As time goes on, that should also lessen.

I've been corresponding with Mike McCormick., head of the officials. He says the same things. The guys who won't call it won't be at the tournament.

 

[akaoni]

I was pretty much in MSU158's camp and really thought the new OOB stalling rules would end up as a cluster. And the inconsistency in the officiating early on pretty much confirmed my fears, and I figured NCAAs would be the end of this rule after the outcry that would surely follow.

However, I have witnessed some matches this year where it was called consistently and most of the wrestlers have started to adapt (unlike the opening match of the year). When this is done, the new rule IS, in fact, having the desired effect.

But back to the inconsistency part -

On a local HS board I frequent, we have a poster who is a NCAA referee evaluator. We started this discussion last week and he weighed in with a very interesting post:

"Confidence - Full disclosure, I'm a paid national NCAA evaluator of officials I'm not saying there won't be mistakes, officials are human after all, no really they are! However, just watch a Big 10 match or PAC12 match on TV if you get those networks. The top officials, the ones who will be working the NCAA D1 tournament (I know the names of the 20 selected), are already conditioned to making the stalling call for going OOB on your feet in neutral. It is now second nature to them. What we have been concentrating in the last month or so on making sure that the normal stalling calls for lack of offense or blocking, etc are still being called aggressively and not being lost in need to pay so much attention to going OOB on their feet...

I can say that the NCAA has done a tremendous job of communicating rules interpretations and video examples of these interpretations to all officials this year for the first time.

The area where we are looking for more consistency in stalling calls is on the mat, particularly in a legs situation. The 5 second count on moves like dropping below the butt or the side head lock to ride has pretty much been fixed with the count rule.

There is meeting for officials on Wednesday evening before the start of the tournament where the NCAA Rules Editor and Coordinator of Officials go over all the new rules and interpretations issued during the season. They talk about how the NCAA wants certain situations called. Officials receive written evaluations after each session and there is a meeting before the next session to reinforce the rules and what the NCAA expects.

Will all of this make the officiating perfect? Of course not, but I suspect you will be complaining a lot more about how stalling was called in Hershey than in NYC. Make sure you read up on the college rules so you know what must be called and what judgement is still left to the official.

I will be interested to hear what you think after the season."

After reading this AND seeing some of the matches he refers to with the top officials, I am certainly willing to defer judgement until post-NCAA. He makes a later post about the reduction in neutral stalling this year in the NCAA - which I agree with - and how the biggest problem now with inconsistency is stalling calls on the mat. He also agrees that there is inconsistency in the OOB rule, but that it is now pretty much the "not so top" officials. As time goes on, that should also lessen.

Nice post Dice! From my (admittedly subjective) POV I think I've seen an uptick in action this year. Can't prove it but that's the way it feels to me. Overall, I think that the OOB calls have been ok. Yes, some refs call them much less frequently than I would like to see, but overall I think they're having an impact. I'm also glad to hear that the NCAA is looking at refs de-emphasizing stalling in the mat and making sure it doesn't happen, because I can see the focus on OOB interfering with correctly calling in-bounds stalling as well.

I hope we'll see clear and consistent officiating in the Big Ten and NCAA tourneys. Will there be misses? Of course, but I'm cautiously optimistic. At the very least I'd like to see how next year goes with this rule-set before we begin scrap it for the push out (as someone who has actually done sumo I don't mind the push out).

 

[artradley]

I've been corresponding with Mike McCormick., head of the officials. He says the same things. The guys who won't call it won't be at the tournament.

I'll be curious to see. I think the worst part of the rule is calling a stall on somebody if you feel they pushed the other guy out. It's not my fault of my opponent is too weak to push back and too stupid to circle. Right now if feels pretty dicey for the aggressor when you are on the edge.

But more importantly, even if they get it right post-season, they better start getting it right during the season, as well. Because you shouldn't force guys to wrestle under was is effectively one set of rules all season long, then a different set of rules in the post-season. That is very unfair.

 

[OkieSpladle]

I don't care for the tech falls via one takedown and a series of guts or laces in freestyle. I think scoring on exposures should be limited to once per hold, as in folkstyle. I'd freestyle made this change, I'd have almost no issues at all with freestyle rules. I think it's the one thing keeping freestyle from being absolutely fantastic.

WWDM, This was the rule for a short time about 10 years ago and I agree it was better. If you scored exposure with a hold, you had to either switch holds or hold them on their back for a 5-count (1 additional point) before you could score with that hold again. You could keep rolling them through, but no additional points were awarded.

 

[MVPFAN]

I was pretty much in MSU158's camp and really thought the new OOB stalling rules would end up as a cluster. And the inconsistency in the officiating early on pretty much confirmed my fears, and I figured NCAAs would be the end of this rule after the outcry that would surely follow.

However, I have witnessed some matches this year where it was called consistently and most of the wrestlers have started to adapt (unlike the opening match of the year). When this is done, the new rule IS, in fact, having the desired effect.

But back to the inconsistency part -

On a local HS board I frequent, we have a poster who is a NCAA referee evaluator. We started this discussion last week and he weighed in with a very interesting post:

"Confidence - Full disclosure, I'm a paid national NCAA evaluator of officials I'm not saying there won't be mistakes, officials are human after all, no really they are! However, just watch a Big 10 match or PAC12 match on TV if you get those networks. The top officials, the ones who will be working the NCAA D1 tournament (I know the names of the 20 selected), are already conditioned to making the stalling call for going OOB on your feet in neutral. It is now second nature to them. What we have been concentrating in the last month or so on making sure that the normal stalling calls for lack of offense or blocking, etc are still being called aggressively and not being lost in need to pay so much attention to going OOB on their feet...

I can say that the NCAA has done a tremendous job of communicating rules interpretations and video examples of these interpretations to all officials this year for the first time.

The area where we are looking for more consistency in stalling calls is on the mat, particularly in a legs situation. The 5 second count on moves like dropping below the butt or the side head lock to ride has pretty much been fixed with the count rule.

There is meeting for officials on Wednesday evening before the start of the tournament where the NCAA Rules Editor and Coordinator of Officials go over all the new rules and interpretations issued during the season. They talk about how the NCAA wants certain situations called. Officials receive written evaluations after each session and there is a meeting before the next session to reinforce the rules and what the NCAA expects.

Will all of this make the officiating perfect? Of course not, but I suspect you will be complaining a lot more about how stalling was called in Hershey than in NYC. Make sure you read up on the college rules so you know what must be called and what judgement is still left to the official.

I will be interested to hear what you think after the season."

After reading this AND seeing some of the matches he refers to with the top officials, I am certainly willing to defer judgement until post-NCAA. He makes a later post about the reduction in neutral stalling this year in the NCAA - which I agree with - and how the biggest problem now with inconsistency is stalling calls on the mat. He also agrees that there is inconsistency in the OOB rule, but that it is now pretty much the "not so top" officials. As time goes on, that should also lessen.

Great to hear the parts I have bolded. I felt last year refs were so caught up in the 5 count business they forgot they could and should call stalling in the non 5 count situations. Returning people to the mat in a timely manner has been a big problem not getting called enough IMO. In the legs situation you mentioned above I hope that is in reference to neutralizing the bottom guy with a leg hold (double boots, figure 4 on a leg) but not working to score, that needs to be called for sure.

I have felt the new rules have created quite a bit more action in matches and gas tanks have been put on test. Scoring seems way up to me in general.

 

[MSU158]

I like the new rules, when called correctly. I just am not a fan of the full fledged push out. Penalize those that intentionally use the ob for a buffer but allow action to continue at the perimeter. I can't stress enough how some of the very best action occurs when one guy barely keeps a toe in to secure a takedown or, even better, turn a guy.

 

[AFHawk86]

The refs are still caught up in the 5-second count. The 133lb match between PSU/OSU is a great example. OSU should have been getting back points and instead the ref counted to 5 and called stalling. That call changed the whole match.