We are at war?
- Thread starter biggreydogs
- Start date
Instead of a war on poverty,
They got a war on drugs so the police can bother me.
They got a war on drugs so the police can bother me.
We have always been at war with Eastasia Russia.
Another example why 80 should be the mandatory retirement age for elected officials...
Uh 65 please
Yeah, but he can’t sell it like the Republicans can. They were full ‘Love it or leave it’ in 2004.
So you have moved on from your original premise that Russia was conducting exercises on the border with Ukraine--not intending on invading--and it was the US creating the tension to Russia was justified for invading because at sometime in the future Ukraine may join NATO.......interesting progress.
It's nice that we don't even have to out these Russian propagandists like Obama, they do it themselves.
Matt Gaetz is 40 so how about 39?Just to be safe.
As I explained, the troops on the border pressure had been exercised, several times.
Last September the Washington Post:
MOSCOW — Russia and Belarus began a massive, week-long military exercise on NATO's borders Friday after President Vladimir Putin and Belarus's leader agreed on a new effort toward integrating the nations, including creating a "single defense space."
The Zapad 2021 exercise, involving 200,000 troops, has NATO members and other neighboring countries on edge, echoing worries this spring over an unannounced Russian military buildup near Ukraine.
So you have the Germans and the French, behind the scenes, telling the Russians, don’t worry, we’ll keep Ukraine out of NATO, and then Russia asking the US to sign a treaty affirming that.
Biden’s response:
KYIV, Dec 9 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden assured Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy that Kyiv's bid to join the NATO military alliance was in its own hands, Zelenskiy's chief of staff said after the two leaders spoke on Thursday.
I truly hoped cooler heads would prevail, and a war that had already taken over 14k lives wouldn’t expand to take 10s of thousands of more lives.
Silly me.
Now I find myself hoping cooler heads will prevail, and not expand this war into killing 10s of millions of lives.
The only people who can be happy with the present situation are the neocons that pushed the coup in 2014 and continuation of the present conflict.
We aided the unconstitutional removal of an elected leader, because we didn’t like the election outcome and it’s consequences. I hope we don’t experience the consequences of that the way the Ukrainians have.
Is it your position we should base our policy on one persons opinion from 2008? Granted, an important person.
Agree, also 2 terms, no lifetime benefits
So you have not abandoned your opinion that Russia massing troops on the border beginning in November 2021 was for exercises and not the invasions.....ok...that's an opinion.
Is Ukraine autonomous? If they are, why should they be prevented from seeking protection under the umbrella of NATO when Russia has already shown a proclivity for engaging in war to expand its territory.
No, my position is that we should stop meddling in other countries.
I find the outcomes poor.
Do you think that important person reached that conclusion themselves or with a lot of input from those around him? Let's just pick a term and call them advisors.
Must leave Congress after they make their first million
Wait, helping Ukraine defend itself from Russia is meddling? If so, how much are you fine with Russia taking?
I looked upon it as an unveiled threat, that we had seen previously.
The Biden administration took it as an opportunity to ratchet up tensions, and make clear that the 'red line' would be crossed.
Do we presume:
A - The Biden administration decided Putin was bluffing
B - The Biden administration decided Putin was serious about the 'red line' and determined to make him prove it.
What other options do you see?
The US had demonstrated a proclivity for invading Cuba.
Is Cuba autonomous?
If they are, why should they be prevented from seeking protection under the umbrella of the Warsaw Pact when the U.S. has shown a proclivity for invading Cuba when it suits U.S. ‘interests’ to do so?
JFK would have owned the moral culpability for launching an unjustified war of aggression against Cuba if Kruschev hadn’t backed down, right?
We saw it as vital to our national security to prevent the Soviets turning Cuba into a base for weapons aimed at us.
Some people can’t see how the Russians view it as vital to their national security to prevent NATO turning Ukraine into a base for weapons aimed at them.
No, pumping money into Ukrainian politics and discussing who to replace their leadership with a few weeks before the coup happens is the meddling I’m discussing.
I think my greater point was geo politics is a fluid and ever changing landscape. To cherry pick a position of let's say the whole of the CIA from well over a decade ago is disingenuous. Does having more NATO members piss RU off? Sure. Do they get to control all of eastern Europe because they might throw a temper tantrum?
Now with the Swedes and Finns correctly recognizing that RU is not only bluffing, but in fact weak, the floodgates are open. Most people in this thread agree Putin gravely miscalculated, only time will tell just how badly.
And the US signing something saying Ukraine would not be in NATO would only have assured Putin's attack on that nation. That would have been very Chamberlin-like
So just cede any foreign influence in international affairs? If you're not seeing the parallels between the last dictator to overrun eastern Europe and the current one, then you are either naive or a RU toady.
"Just one more country don't worry"
Stop brining up Cuba, it's not relevant and approximately the same time passed between the American civil war and world war 1 as the false equivalence you keep seeming to think scores points. You've been going to that well throughout this thread and nobody is buying it.
LOL!
Stop bringing up an analogous situation where you support the one who threatened war against their neighbor for making an unwelcome military alliance?
"I don't like where answering your questions leads me, so I'll just post a picture and run away instead!"
You're a hoot, Fij.
Have a good weekend.
Do you think we should meddle in the politics of foreign nations?
Pick their leaders?
I don't.
So if that's what you mean by 'cede any foreign influence in international affairs', then yes.
No more of it.
We have a terrible history at it.
Lots of examples that fit better. And if you weren't aware the nation's are not unilaterally admitted to NATO, comrade. If you'd like to keep doing it maybe bring up the fast its been 60 years. Go carry your America first anti intervention picket sign and bury your head before the internet and globalization occurred.
Why don't you take a crack at answering the questions I asked, Fiji?
Is Cuba autonomous?
If they are, why should they be prevented from seeking protection under the umbrella of the Warsaw Pact when the U.S. has shown a proclivity for invading Cuba when it suits U.S. ‘interests’ to do so?
JFK would have owned the moral culpability for launching an unjustified war of aggression against Cuba if Khrushchev hadn’t backed down, right?
