We are now seeing optimized lineup to be Murray 2x, Rebraca, Sandfort and a PG

[KcTo]

As the season enters its last quarter pole, for the players with enough sample size, we are seeing what can be considered real expectations on future performanc.

Kris Murray is clearly the 2nd best player on the team, not even close.

then Sandfort as #3, with Rebraca and PMac well behind in #4, #5.

the PG role looks like a dead heat between Jobo, JoeT, Ulis

optimizing the minutes of this lineup to merge offense, more rebounding, more defense into a team than can win 2 games in a tournament

let’s see if Fran adds minutes to them….

 

[goodbyebobby]

Fran has done pretty nice with his subbing patterns with this new lineup.

 

[topherchris20]

Toussaint is the best PG and it's not even close.

 

[Jizzer]

Toussaint is the best PG and it's not even close.

He was 1-6 yesterday with 4 assists and 2 TO's. It's closer than you want it to be. I love Joe's ability to drive and dish, play hardcore D, and his hustle, but man he's gotta figure out finishing.

 

[Mohawkeye]

Toussaint is the best PG and it's not even close.

You may be right, I love Joe’s game, but if Bohannon is hitting 3s and not killing us on defense then he’s the better option at the point. Hard to argue with the results of the past 2 games, although competition has been poor. Both need to play.

 

[hawkland14]

As the season enters its last quarter pole, for the players with enough sample size, we are seeing what can be considered real expectations on future performanc.

Kris Murray is clearly the 2nd best player on the team, not even close.

then Sandfort as #3, with Rebraca and PMac well behind in #4, #5.

the PG role looks like a dead heat between Jobo, JoeT, Ulis

optimizing the minutes of this lineup to merge offense, more rebounding, more defense into a team than can win 2 games in a tournament

let’s see if Fran adds minutes to them….

PMac as the 5th best player on the team? Sandford is the 3rd best player on the team? Is this a troll job? I know people want to dog Fran at all costs and wish his kids werent on the team, but PMac has been fantastic lately and has been our second best player behind Keegan. Sandfort has been playing well when he is in there but to say he is the third best player is a stretch.

 

[littlez]

PMac as the 5th best player on the team? Sandford is the 3rd best player on the team? Is this a troll job? I know people want to dog Fran at all costs and wish his kids werent on the team, but PMac has been fantastic lately and has been our second best player behind Keegan. Sandfort has been playing well when he is in there but to say he is the third best player is a stretch.

While I would agree Sandfort does seem to play w/a lot of confidence, he's doing very well right now in a particular role. This seems to be 12-17 minutes. I think this is the perfect distribution amount right now for him. Players have flaws and there's a good chance those get exposed w/the more minutes he gets. Patrick was a nice spark off the bench last year. It's taken him awhile to get his body used to being a starter and playing more minutes. Again, we have played 2 really really shitty teams at home in Minny and Nebraska. We absolutely took care of business and did what we needed to do. The Maryland win is a little underrated in my book by how much we just crushed them.

 

[goodbyebobby]

This team has a good thing going, and was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

We can finish very strong, and be much better than last season.

 

[fivecardstud14]

PMac as the 5th best player on the team? Sandford is the 3rd best player on the team? Is this a troll job? I know people want to dog Fran at all costs and wish his kids werent on the team, but PMac has been fantastic lately and has been our second best player behind Keegan. Sandfort has been playing well when he is in there but to say he is the third best player is a stretch.

It's a surprise OP didn't list Rebraca as the best player on the team. He thinks Rebraca is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

I am confused about how abruptly Fran switches his preference at guard, but I like the pattern we saw against Nebraska. In most games, I would like to see Kris off the bench pretty early, and much more of mix between Sandfort and Connor than before. It would be interesting to get Fran's real analysis for who plays PG and when. I guess we should be happy that we have good alternatives.

 

[twindman]

The mix of Sandfort and Connor should be 80/20, not 40/60 tho.

 

[KcTo]

The mix of Sandfort and Connor should be 80/20, not 40/60 tho.

You mean Sandfort/Perkins?

 

[hooper56]

I am confused about how abruptly Fran switches his preference at guard, but I like the pattern we saw against Nebraska. In most games, I would like to see Kris off the bench pretty early, and much more of mix between Sandfort and Connor than before. It would be interesting to get Fran's real analysis for who plays PG and when. I guess we should be happy that we have good alternatives.

It has a lot to do with matchups. Adjustments are made for each team we play. That, and he always likes to ride whoever is playing well or who has the hot hand.

 

[jonesy5960]

As the season enters its last quarter pole, for the players with enough sample size, we are seeing what can be considered real expectations on future performanc.

Kris Murray is clearly the 2nd best player on the team, not even close.

then Sandfort as #3, with Rebraca and PMac well behind in #4, #5.

the PG role looks like a dead heat between Jobo, JoeT, Ulis

optimizing the minutes of this lineup to merge offense, more rebounding, more defense into a team than can win 2 games in a tournament

let’s see if Fran adds minutes to them….

Sandfort's minutes have been ticking up but I think they are capped at around 12-15 and Kris at around 15-18. I don't really see that changing too much in lieu of an injury to one of the starters.

 

[RocknRollface]

He was 1-6 yesterday with 4 assists and 2 TO's. It's closer than you want it to be. I love Joe's ability to drive and dish, play hardcore D, and his hustle, but man he's gotta figure out finishing.

He also blew up 5 Nebraska possessions in the first half with steals and drawing offensive fouls.

And one of the TOs was Sandfort running into him.

It really comes down to whether you want half court spacing on offense over defensive stops.

 

[CookyMonster]

He also blew up 5 Nebraska possessions in the first half with steals and drawing offensive fouls.

And one of the TOs was Sandfort running into him.

It really comes down to whether you want half court spacing on offense over defensive stops.

Are we talking about starting with Perkins? Ill take Jbo. I like Toussaint with Kris and Sandfort off the bench.

 

[RocknRollface]

PMac as the 5th best player on the team? Sandford is the 3rd best player on the team? Is this a troll job? I know people want to dog Fran at all costs and wish his kids werent on the team, but PMac has been fantastic lately and has been our second best player behind Keegan. Sandfort has been playing well when he is in there but to say he is the third best player is a stretch.

Its not that much of a stretch.

Pat and Sandfort are 3 and 4 however you want to rank it IMO.

Personally I think Sandfort is a little better because of his ability to knock down contested 3s.

 

[RocknRollface]

Are we talking about starting with Perkins? Ill take Jbo. I like Toussaint with Kris and Sandfort off the bench.

Not necessarily. TP has only started 3 games.

But I take your point.

Im much more ok with yesterday's playing time split than JBO with 35 minutes and Joe with 5 like at Minnesota.

That was what set a lot of people off.

It was like they were reverting to last years PT debacle for no apparent reason.

 

[LGEND24]

He was 1-6 yesterday with 4 assists and 2 TO's. It's closer than you want it to be. I love Joe's ability to drive and dish, play hardcore D, and his hustle, but man he's gotta figure out finishing.

Interesting that you failed to mention his 3 steals.

 

[RocknRollface]

Interesting that you failed to mention his 3 steals.

Could have easily had 6 assists too.

He set up two wide open 3 point shots for guys at the top of the key by driving into the lane and kicking that were both missed.

 

[jonesy5960]

Not necessarily. TP has only started 3 games.

But I take your point.

Im much more ok with yesterday's playing time split than JBO with 35 minutes and Joe with 5 like at Minnesota.

That was what set a lot of people off.

It was like they were reverting to last years PT debacle for no apparent reason.

I'm pretty sure that yesterday looked like yesterday primarily because of the nature of the game. I'd be surprised if Jbo isn't right back to 30+ in the next few games assuming they're competitive.

 

[topherchris20]

He was 1-6 yesterday with 4 assists and 2 TO's. It's closer than you want it to be. I love Joe's ability to drive and dish, play hardcore D, and his hustle, but man he's gotta figure out finishing.

A couple of those shots were the end of the shot clock. How about northwestern, Ulis received high praise but went 0-7. I think you're right, it's close and I probably exaggerated a little, but my vote is still for Toussaint. Although, I don't hate JBo at PG as much as I thought I would. I like the rotation between him and Joe T, keeps teams on their toes.

 

[topherchris20]

You may be right, I love Joe’s game, but if Bohannon is hitting 3s and not killing us on defense then he’s the better option at the point. Hard to argue with the results of the past 2 games, although competition has been poor. Both need to play.

I agree, both deserve time at the point, but if JBo isn't hitting three's he needs to be pulled. Look at the defensive spark Joe provided, forcing turnovers, drawing fouls. That charge he took was great, then the elbow to the face. He's a dog and 100x grittier than bohannon. I'd be happy with a 50/50 JBo toussaint split.

 

[iahawks10]

A couple of those shots were the end of the shot clock. How about northwestern, Ulis received high praise but went 0-7. I think you're right, it's close and I probably exaggerated a little, but my vote is still for Toussaint. Although, I don't hate JBo at PG as much as I thought I would. I like the rotation between him and Joe T, keeps teams on their toes.

Penn State?

Not necessarily. TP has only started 3 games.

But I take your point.

Im much more ok with yesterday's playing time split than JBO with 35 minutes and Joe with 5 like at Minnesota.

That was what set a lot of people off.

It was like they were reverting to last years PT debacle for no apparent reason.

At Minnesota, Toussaint played 26 minutes.

At home vs Minnesota was an assistant coach’s first time ever being head coach at a high major and controlling the rotations. I’m not putting too much stock in Joe T missing the entire second half of that game because Taylor was coaching. How many times have we ever seen Fran keep a player who’s in the rotation out for an entire half? If people were truly upset at Taylor, in his first high major coaching experience and getting a win, I guess it says a lot about them and likely looking at reasons to be upset with Fran.

In the two games following Minnesota, Toussaint has averaged about a minute and a half less than his season average even though he’s in a reserve role now.

 

[RocknRollface]

Penn State?




At Minnesota, Toussaint played 26 minutes.

At home vs Minnesota was an assistant coach’s first time ever being head coach at a high major and controlling the rotations. I’m not putting too much stock in Joe T missing the entire second half of that game because Taylor was coaching. How many times have we ever seen Fran keep a player who’s in the rotation out for an entire half? If people were truly upset at Taylor, in his first high major coaching experience and getting a win, I guess it says a lot about them and likely looking at reasons to be upset with Fran.

In the two games following Minnesota, Toussaint has averaged about a minute and a half less than his season average even though he’s in a reserve role now.

Obviously no one is putting stock in Minnesota game now that its two games removed and didn't stay the same.

 

[RocknRollface]

I'm pretty sure that yesterday looked like yesterday primarily because of the nature of the game. I'd be surprised if Jbo isn't right back to 30+ in the next few games assuming they're competitive.

Probably right but I'm hoping for under 30 and it looks to be at the expense of Ulis now and not Toussaint.

I like Ulis and would have preferred he and Jt be the pgs this year but at this point if jbo is a given id rather see JT take the rest of the minutes.

 

[IllQChawk]

I know he's improved over the last month, but Rebraca is still a huge disappointment over what we as fans heard about his offensive ability coming to Iowa. He's not much of a rim protector or takes up space in the middle and not much of a jumper either that I've seen.
He has improved his free throw shooting in the last 2 games, but I imagine Iowa could have done better in the portal if Fran had tried.
Like Bakari Evelyn, Fran went for a body with Filip then a scorer or defensive player Iowa needed. Didn't want to piss off any returning players you know.
Of course Illinois goes and finds Alfonso Plummer, go figure...

 

[FWIW4922463]

He was 1-6 yesterday with 4 assists and 2 TO's. It's closer than you want it to be. I love Joe's ability to drive and dish, play hardcore D, and his hustle, but man he's gotta figure out finishing.

You are not wrong, but that behind-the-back bounce pass on the break is one reason we all want Joe to play and succeed. He has skills nobody else on the roster has. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Name one player who doesn't. Keegan had a couple of silly TOs himself vs. Nebraska. Keegan, Patrick, Kris, Rebraca--all the big guys miss two or three lay-ups a game. Should they not play?

Joe can take it to the hole. He can deliver amazing passes. He plays defense with a fervor this team desperately needs. Yes, he still can get out of control at times, but given his upside, he has to play a significant number of minutes. And I like him coming off the bench. Do I wish he were more consistent? Sure. But he does too many good things to be buried at the end of the bench.

 

[iahawks10]

Obviously no one is putting stock in Minnesota game now that its two games removed and didn't stay the same.

Here is exactly what you said:
Im much more ok with yesterday's playing time split than JBO with 35 minutes and Joe with 5 like at Minnesota.

That was what set a lot of people off.

How many other games has JBo played 35 minutes and Joe played 5? It’s exactly what you said.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

As the season enters its last quarter pole, for the players with enough sample size, we are seeing what can be considered real expectations on future performanc.

Kris Murray is clearly the 2nd best player on the team, not even close.

then Sandfort as #3, with Rebraca and PMac well behind in #4, #5.

the PG role looks like a dead heat between Jobo, JoeT, Ulis

optimizing the minutes of this lineup to merge offense, more rebounding, more defense into a team than can win 2 games in a tournament

let’s see if Fran adds minutes to them….

So, had some time to kill (retired, have lots of time to kill). So I made up a new stat. It's called Stat Stuffer (SS).

I added points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, and deducted turnovers and fouls - all per 40 minutes played.

(I'm seriously not going to try to defend how meaningful this stat is - just having fun).

Here are the results:

Keegan 44.0
Kris 33.1
PMac 25.9
Payton 25.6
Rebracca 19.6
Joe T 19.6
JBo 19.0
Tony 18.7
Ulis 17.1
CMac 12.3

Interesting that the 5 guards are on the bottom, and I don't think it is formula bias (but maybe it is),

But it does seem to support the OP, so he'll probably agree with it!

 

[RocknRollface]

Here is exactly what you said:
Im much more ok with yesterday's playing time split than JBO with 35 minutes and Joe with 5 like at Minnesota.

That was what set a lot of people off.

How many other games has JBo played 35 minutes and Joe played 5? It’s exactly what you said.

Half of last year....the last time jbo was the starting pg.

That game came right after Fran said he was changing things.

It was infact logical to assume that was what Fran had in mind with playing time and not that his assistant was doing his own thing.

I was simply saying my thoughts on the matter had changed since my negative reaction to the jbo move at that time.

I honestly don't understand what you're having trouble grasping?

You knew the Minnesota game was an aberration? Great, congratulations.

I don't care.

 

[EagleHawk]

So, had some time to kill (retired, have lots of time to kill). So I made up a new stat. It's called Stat Stuffer (SS).

I added points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, and deducted turnovers and fouls - all per 40 minutes played.

(I'm seriously not going to try to defend how meaningful this stat is - just having fun).

Here are the results:

Keegan 44.0
Kris 33.1
PMac 25.9
Payton 25.6
Rebracca 19.6
Joe T 19.6
JBo 19.0
Tony 18.7
Ulis 17.1
CMac 12.3

Interesting that the 5 guards are on the bottom, and I don't think it is formula bias (but maybe it is),

But it does seem to support the OP, so he'll probably agree with it!

Well, that puts Austin Ash at 43.6 so he clearly should be getting 35 minutes a game.
Edit - That was conference only, for the full season he is at 30.9, so only should be getting 25 minutes a game.

 

[NCHawkeye24]

I haven't went back and re-watched the games or charted any of this, but my impression right now is that the optimized lineup will consist of the core of Keegan, Patrick and JBo, and further, the optimal offensive lineup will have Kris and defensively against a good big Rebraca. Play Perkins, Joe T and Ulis according to game flow and who seems to bring energy and is hitting shots. For all of those that love to rip on JBo, there is no doubt in my mind that this team has its highest ceiling with him running the point. I would say that he gives away things defensively, but to be totally honest, I haven't seen Tony, Joe T or Ulis be able to play much better against quicker guards on defense, and our offensive efficiency has to go way down with either of those 3 at the point. Again, I didn't rewatch anything, but in both of the last 2 games it appeared that we blew both teams out when Keegan and JBo were on the floor, but then when they sat we gave up a lot and the other teams cut into the lead. Yesterday when those two were on the floor the lead got to almost 40 points, but Nebraska cut it to less than 20, and there is no excuse at that point. Everyone wants to get minutes and is going to play hard. The most dangerous version of this team is one that is highly efficient on offense and competent on defense. So by the end of the season, the best version of this team, to me, will be Keegan, Kris, Patrick, JBo and Sandfort, because he can shoot and score and has some length to defend. But Kris and Keegan will have to platoon at the 5.

 

[hawktrooper1]

Hypothetically speaking, if Keegan and Kris wanted to troll the coaching staff and started switching jerseys on game days, how long before “Kris” took “Keegan’s” starting job? Or would the coaches keep rolling with it based on names alone?

 

[NCHawkeye24]

As the season enters its last quarter pole, for the players with enough sample size, we are seeing what can be considered real expectations on future performanc.

Kris Murray is clearly the 2nd best player on the team, not even close.

then Sandfort as #3, with Rebraca and PMac well behind in #4, #5.

the PG role looks like a dead heat between Jobo, JoeT, Ulis

optimizing the minutes of this lineup to merge offense, more rebounding, more defense into a team than can win 2 games in a tournament

let’s see if Fran adds minutes to them….

To respond to your post, I think the thing to keep in mind is not what each player does individually but what they can do collectively. First, we need to talk offensively, because this is where it all starts and ends with this team. The entire goal of all of Fran's teams and especially this one, is to be highly efficient on offense and score a lot of points. The efficiency alone is a defensive weapon, a 6th man if you will, because it puts tons of pressure on the other teams to try to keep up. That is why with offensive efficiency in mind, everyone on the floor has to be able to shoot. That leaves Keegan, Kris, JBo, Patrick and Sandfort, because you cannot leave any of them alone. This also allows our best player in Keegan to be have space to operate. Look at last year when CMac was in the game. He did so many things well but he couldn't reliably hit the open 3 when the defense collapsed on Garza, and teams knew it because they planned for that. Bottom line with this team, it wants to score 100 points a game and dare the other team to figure out how they can get to that number.

 

[RocknRollface]

I haven't went back and re-watched the games or charted any of this, but my impression right now is that the optimized lineup will consist of the core of Keegan, Patrick and JBo, and further, the optimal offensive lineup will have Kris and defensively against a good big Rebraca. Play Perkins, Joe T and Ulis according to game flow and who seems to bring energy and is hitting shots. For all of those that love to rip on JBo, there is no doubt in my mind that this team has its highest ceiling with him running the point. I would say that he gives away things defensively, but to be totally honest, I haven't seen Tony, Joe T or Ulis be able to play much better against quicker guards on defense, and our offensive efficiency has to go way down with either of those 3 at the point. Again, I didn't rewatch anything, but in both of the last 2 games it appeared that we blew both teams out when Keegan and JBo were on the floor, but then when they sat we gave up a lot and the other teams cut into the lead. Yesterday when those two were on the floor the lead got to almost 40 points, but Nebraska cut it to less than 20, and there is no excuse at that point. Everyone wants to get minutes and is going to play hard. The most dangerous version of this team is one that is highly efficient on offense and competent on defense. So by the end of the season, the best version of this team, to me, will be Keegan, Kris, Patrick, JBo and Sandfort, because he can shoot and score and has some length to defend. But Kris and Keegan will have to platoon at the 5.

Keegan obviously but Iowa blew the game open in the 1st half with JT at point guard.

In that stretch he created 5 turnovers on Nebraska.

3 steals and drew two offensive fouls.

 

[iahawks10]

Half of last year....the last time jbo was the starting pg.

That game came right after Fran said he was changing things.

It was infact logical to assume that was what Fran had in mind with playing time and not that his assistant was doing his own thing.

I was simply saying my thoughts on the matter had changed since my negative reaction to the jbo move at that time.

I honestly don't understand what you're having trouble grasping?

You knew the Minnesota game was an aberration? Great, congratulations.

I don't care.

I guess what I had a hard time grasping was your use of “set a lot of people off”. I didn’t realize you were going back to 11 months ago to a different team. Because a lot people were “set off” after Joe’s playing time vs Minnesota, which was easy to infer after what you posted.

I see you figured out how to spell “a lot”. Congratulations. You just have to work on accepted vs excepted now.

 

[NCHawkeye24]

Keegan obviously but Iowa blew the game open in the 1st half with JT at point guard.

In that stretch he created 5 turnovers on Nebraska.

3 steals and drew two offensive fouls.

was JBo at the 2 during that time?

 

[RocknRollface]

I guess what I had a hard time grasping was your use of “set a lot of people off”. I didn’t realize you were going back to 11 months ago to a different team. Because a lot people were “set off” after Joe’s playing time vs Minnesota, which was easy to infer after what you posted.

I see you figured out how to spell “a lot”. Congratulations. You just have to work on accepted vs excepted now.

I've read this four times and have no idea what the fvck you are trying to communicate with this incoherent rambling.

But when you try to deflect with some silly bullshit about spelling it probably wasn't a very compelling point.

Here's a tip, don't try to start arguments that aren't about anything that anyone cares about.

Its just boring.

 

[RocknRollface]

was JBo at the 2 during that time?

Not for most of it if I recall.

I've come to the conclusion that it probably is better that they don't play much together.

Both bring completely different things and both are better at the one. So split time and give the opponent different looks.

I tend to prefer defense more but I get the coach prefers offensive efficiency and ball security.