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Weight lifting thread/advice

They don’t make holes that way in football. They make them sideways. Holes work for the defense too!
True and that is a brilliant way to look at it. That is what he needs to focus on. Fine line between filling a gap/stuffing a hole, and not allowing a blocker to keep you engaged so that you can make a play. His natural instinct is to take on a blocker full speed like a ram, and that can have it's place, but he needs to keep working on using his speed and I suppose lack of size "advantage" to stay disengaged with blockers, or avoiding engagement altogether, when appropriate...
 
True and that is a brilliant way to look at it. That is what he needs to focus on. Fine line between filling a gap/stuffing a hole, and not allowing a blocker to keep you engaged so that you can make a play. His natural instinct is to take on a blocker full speed like a ram, and that can have it's place, but he needs to keep working on using his speed and I suppose lack of size "advantage" to stay disengaged with blockers, or avoiding engagement altogether, when appropriate...
He needs to focus on “closing ground” with the correct shoulder upfield. Read step and go.

There’s three kinds of “good” players:
1. Those who look good on an index card
2. Those who look good on film
3. Freaks

He needs to be #2. Size has nothing to do with being a ball hawk.
 
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Wendler's 5/3/1 or Starting Strength for basic lifting. I cited the books on the first page for reference. Lifting for beginners (or those who once did but aren't now) need to not overly complicate things. People tend to do too much accessory / isolation work. Squats, bench, deadlifts, overhead press, cleans (optional if >40 yrs old) and chinups - cut out the rest.

Losing weight while lifting can be done, but it sucks tremendously as you need to be in a caloric deficit throughout. Forget any volume work if you are looking to get stronger. Don't be too surprised if you get down to 225 and get stuck... your body will revolt.

I didn't end up actually starting on a lifting program before I got delta at the end of July. Checked out the equipment at the gym I'm using after this discussion and they don't actually have a real squat rack/barbell. Super discount through through work which is why I got started at this place. Best deal you can get for cardio equipment. What they have for normal barbell lifts instead of a barbell and squat rack is a Smith machine. I tried Google on compatibility of doing 5/3/1 with this machine for squats and deadlifts. The advice I saw was you could follow the 5/3/1 progressions but just counting the weight on the plates and not counting the bar. Does this sound reasonable to you even short term? I've never used a Smith machine but I would imagine the benefits are limited compared to actual free weights. Would this do anything for me other than burn some extra calories even if it's just a few months while I shop around for a better gym?
 
I didn't end up actually starting on a lifting program before I got delta at the end of July. Checked out the equipment at the gym I'm using after this discussion and they don't actually have a real squat rack/barbell. Super discount through through work which is why I got started at this place. Best deal you can get for cardio equipment. What they have for normal barbell lifts instead of a barbell and squat rack is a Smith machine. I tried Google on compatibility of doing 5/3/1 with this machine for squats and deadlifts. The advice I saw was you could follow the 5/3/1 progressions but just counting the weight on the plates and not counting the bar. Does this sound reasonable to you even short term? I've never used a Smith machine but I would imagine the benefits are limited compared to actual free weights. Would this do anything for me other than burn some extra calories even if it's just a few months while I shop around for a better gym?
You can do squats and deadlifts on the smith machine. The bar is I believe 15 pounds instead of the 45 pounds of a normal olympic barbell. Before I switched gyms this was what I did. Because the machine keeps the barbell in a straight line it is a little different as the range of motion is confined to that line. I had to do bench on the smith machine unless I chose to use dumbells. The Planet Fitnesses here don't really have barbells other than on the smith machine. That is why I switched to Crunch Fitness when it opened here as it is about the same price and they have full squat racks with bumper plates and several benches for flat and incline and even a decline bench with barbells..
 
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I didn't end up actually starting on a lifting program before I got delta at the end of July. Checked out the equipment at the gym I'm using after this discussion and they don't actually have a real squat rack/barbell. Super discount through through work which is why I got started at this place. Best deal you can get for cardio equipment. What they have for normal barbell lifts instead of a barbell and squat rack is a Smith machine. I tried Google on compatibility of doing 5/3/1 with this machine for squats and deadlifts. The advice I saw was you could follow the 5/3/1 progressions but just counting the weight on the plates and not counting the bar. Does this sound reasonable to you even short term? I've never used a Smith machine but I would imagine the benefits are limited compared to actual free weights. Would this do anything for me other than burn some extra calories even if it's just a few months while I shop around for a better gym?
I would not recommend use of a Smith machine for any medium to heavy squatting - the anatomy has to go in a specific place when performing, and that usually creates undesirable strain on your joints. It might get you by short-term, and it might also cause you tendonitis in your knees or having you develop ass-tastic form that crumples under free weight.

I would never use a Smith for benching - if you're unable to hook the bar on a bad lift... where's the weight going to go? Eventually your neck as you try to slide down. Most deaths by weightlifting (and there's a dozen or so every year) are caused by benching and unable to get the weight off your neck, either because you're using a Smith or you've collared the bar. One of the Killary "suicide club" (don't recall his name) died this way, just before he was slated to testify.
 
I didn't end up actually starting on a lifting program before I got delta at the end of July. Checked out the equipment at the gym I'm using after this discussion and they don't actually have a real squat rack/barbell. Super discount through through work which is why I got started at this place. Best deal you can get for cardio equipment. What they have for normal barbell lifts instead of a barbell and squat rack is a Smith machine. I tried Google on compatibility of doing 5/3/1 with this machine for squats and deadlifts. The advice I saw was you could follow the 5/3/1 progressions but just counting the weight on the plates and not counting the bar. Does this sound reasonable to you even short term? I've never used a Smith machine but I would imagine the benefits are limited compared to actual free weights. Would this do anything for me other than burn some extra calories even if it's just a few months while I shop around for a better gym?

Never do squats, deadlifts or bench press on a Smith machine. Never. You will get injured. If you can't get a squat rack, get a nice set of dumbbells. Smith machines are great for lat pulls, rows or anything else you can use with the pulleys.
 
I would not recommend use of a Smith machine for any medium to heavy squatting - the anatomy has to go in a specific place when performing, and that usually creates undesirable strain on your joints. It might get you by short-term, and it might also cause you tendonitis in your knees or having you develop ass-tastic form that crumples under free weight.

I would never use a Smith for benching - if you're unable to hook the bar on a bad lift... where's the weight going to go? Eventually your neck as you try to slide down. Most deaths by weightlifting (and there's a dozen or so every year) are caused by benching and unable to get the weight off your neck, either because you're using a Smith or you've collared the bar. One of the Killary "suicide club" (don't recall his name) died this way, just before he was slated to testify.
It definitely sucks doing bench and add rolling the bench to be set up dead center and far enough back was a pain. But always safest to have spotter if doing heavy weight or to failure. I generally use dumbells for bench when i don't have a spotter even though I've never missed racking the weights it can happen.
 
Agreed. Mine would like to be more 195, but we'll see if he caps out around 5'10 or pushes another inch or two higher.
CSB/brag moment here, but he made it to 190 last night. He is going for 200 by football in August as there is talk of putting him somewhere on the DL or DE. Bench is up to 325 and still has a 4.70 40 and can still hit over 30 pullups. Really proud of the hard work he has put in.
 
CSB/brag moment here, but he made it to 190 last night. He is going for 200 by football in August as there is talk of putting him somewhere on the DL or DE. Bench is up to 325 and still has a 4.70 40 and can still hit over 30 pullups. Really proud of the hard work he has put in.

I too can do 30 pull-ups. Over the course of a week.
 
Welp, boys, here my old ass is at 51 and I've been to the gym once in the last 18 months. While my weight is down, muscle mass is shot at the moment. Our son will be seven months on the 19th. At his six-month checkup, he was 29” (off the charts) and 20 lbs. (88th percentile). I need to get my sh!t together to get back in the gym and get ready for this ride!
 
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CSB/brag moment here, but he made it to 190 last night. He is going for 200 by football in August as there is talk of putting him somewhere on the DL or DE. Bench is up to 325 and still has a 4.70 40 and can still hit over 30 pullups. Really proud of the hard work he has put in.
That’s awesome. I can’t remember when I posted what you responded to. Mine got himself up over 200, then did a cut and dropped 25 pounds like it was nothing. He’s kept lifting and his now settling around 180. Tryouts/season start next week, so I think he’s pretty happy with where he is. It’s a pretty cut 180 compared to where he was a year or so ago.
 
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CSB/brag moment here, but he made it to 190 last night. He is going for 200 by football in August as there is talk of putting him somewhere on the DL or DE. Bench is up to 325 and still has a 4.70 40 and can still hit over 30 pullups. Really proud of the hard work he has put in.
DL or DE, time for him to begin some grip work. Rope work or squeezers work fine.
 
fixed it for me
I’m sure I have posted this before, but I did a timed workout which included 100 dead hang pull-ups. I did (IIRC) 29, 27, 23 and so on until I got to 100. One of the stupidest workouts I have ever done. Made two destroyed elbows even worse and 2 wrecked shoulders essentially worthless. Do. Not. Recommend.
 
That’s awesome. I can’t remember when I posted what you responded to. Mine got himself up over 200, then did a cut and dropped 25 pounds like it was nothing. He’s kept lifting and his now settling around 180. Tryouts/season start next week, so I think he’s pretty happy with where he is. It’s a pretty cut 180 compared to where he was a year or so ago.
That is also awesome. I think he will also settle in around 185 once football is over next season. He's jacked but I think he is developing some kind of body dysmorphia where if he's not absolutely ripped he thinks he fat...
 
I’m sure I have posted this before, but I did a timed workout which included 100 dead hang pull-ups. I did (IIRC) 29, 27, 23 and so on until I got to 100. One of the stupidest workouts I have ever done. Made two destroyed elbows even worse and 2 wrecked shoulders essentially worthless. Do. Not. Recommend.
I cannot imagine doing that. Hell, I was his lifting partner for about 4 months until I tore my biceps, and we were doing pretty standard stuff found in this thread!
 
I cannot imagine doing that. Hell, I was his lifting partner for about 4 months until I tore my biceps, and we were doing pretty standard stuff found in this thread!

How did you do that? I like to keep this stuff in the back of my mind when lifting. I like to injure my shoulder mostly. Last time it was by laughing during a dumbbell shoulder press.
 
How did you do that? I like to keep this stuff in the back of my mind when lifting. I like to injure my shoulder mostly. Last time it was by laughing during a dumbbell shoulder press.
Well thank goodness it was not a complete tear, and it was not a sudden catastrophic injury. I believe I did it doing bicep concentration curls, and I tore it a little bit more over time until I couldn't take it any more and just started being his spotter. That was the one beach muscle exercise we kept in the workouts. I wish we hadn't.
 
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I probably haven’t done 30 pull ups total in the last 20 years.
That's because they're stupid and nobody should ever do them, kinda like mayonnaise. Now dips and a good BBQ sauce, there is still hope.

Fight Bar is still open by the way.
 
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Well thank goodness it was not a complete tear, and it was not a sudden catastrophic injury. I believe I did it doing bicep concentration curls, and I tore it a little bit more over time until I couldn't take it any more and just started being his spotter. That was the one beach muscle exercise we kept in the workouts. I wish we hadn't.

Not my favorite lift as I just find it uncomfortable, and I do mostly standing curls at this point.
 
Not my favorite lift as I just find it uncomfortable, and I do mostly standing curls at this point.
Yeah, and we did them on a preacher curl seat so it was complete isolation. Wish we wouldn't have done that.
 
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That is also awesome. I think he will also settle in around 185 once football is over next season. He's jacked but I think he is developing some kind of body dysmorphia where if he's not absolutely ripped he thinks he fat...
I’m happy that mine doesn’t have that issue. He now wants to get more and more jacked, so it’ll be interesting to see how his first year of college goes next year.
 
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So I am trying to post a gif/link of him in April.
Just saw this thread and this video. Your son is having issues with his squat numbers because he needs work on his squat form. He's too high (above 90 not activating his hammies and glutes - biggest muscle in your body), his heels comes off the ground (get rid of athletic shoes and squat in flat shoes and concentrate on screwing his feet into the ground), he needs to take more time in-between reps and make sure his body is tight and solid and his breathing is right each time. He should breathe through his nose into his stomach and fill his stomach with air and explode from the bottom position. He can also try low bar squats instead of high bar like he is. This is when he is training from strength.

I highly suggest you follow squatuniversity on instagram or tictok to learn about form for all the major lifts. I also suggest your son spends time before and after workouts doing activation and band work, again from that channel. These are important tools I wish I had when I competed in college and only started incorporating them in my last two meets and when I competed in crossfit. I'm going to suspect that your son needs work on most of his big movements and that's not a knock on him, it takes years to become an expert at them and we are always learning and tweaking our technique.

Brad Gillingham has some great routines for strength. I would suggest you work on the form for a couple months before jumping into these routines though.


I would also recommend your son work on explosive movements and invest in ladders for footwork. Work with the sled, box jumping, broad jumping, short explosive moments/running. If you're in the Iowa City area spend some money at StrengthU for some training sessions. Ladder drills to get started are below, you can progress from there when you've mastered these.


You can hit on the strength days and have explosive movement days in the same week or alternate weeks. Make sure you KEEP track of progress in a log/excel. Have a plan, follow the plan, don't be discouraged if you're not meeting the plan or hitting the goal for the week. Our bodies change from day to day. Test before and after your program plans. Don't do it while you're in a plan or hero lift. After a program plan REST (meaning light workouts) 2-4 weeks before you jump into another plan like the 12 week one above. Let the kid eat. Not a bunch of sweets and fatty foods. He can have carbs so it doesn't need to be a completely protein heavy diet. He's trying to grow, you need to feed the beast but know it comes over time and not big leaps. And during playing season, don't go nuts on the weights it's not going to benefit him but he does need to do some things to maintain before he busts into offseason where the real work begins.

The biggest thing from a training perspective just from this video is getting better with form. You HAVE to do this. Maximizing your potential while NOT getting injured only comes with proper technique. You can play around with different grips, stances, bar placement that fits best for him because we are all not built the same. However, angles and physics remain so if it doesn't "look" good, it's not good.

One more thing, no foo-foo lifting (bodybuilding). Curls, calf raises, forearms, even most tricep work needs to be cut out. Focus on the big movements for strength/power and incorporate the sport specific explosive footwork stuff instead. He can work on the slow and pump workouts later for the beach bod if he wants to do that. You don't see many bodybuilding type looks in sports and there's a reason for that.
 
Just saw this thread and this video. Your son is having issues with his squat numbers because he needs work on his squat form. He's too high (above 90 not activating his hammies and glutes - biggest muscle in your body), his heels comes off the ground (get rid of athletic shoes and squat in flat shoes and concentrate on screwing his feet into the ground), he needs to take more time in-between reps and make sure his body is tight and solid and his breathing is right each time. He should breathe through his nose into his stomach and fill his stomach with air and explode from the bottom position. He can also try low bar squats instead of high bar like he is. This is when he is training from strength.

I highly suggest you follow squatuniversity on instagram or tictok to learn about form for all the major lifts. I also suggest your son spends time before and after workouts doing activation and band work, again from that channel. These are important tools I wish I had when I competed in college and only started incorporating them in my last two meets and when I competed in crossfit. I'm going to suspect that your son needs work on most of his big movements and that's not a knock on him, it takes years to become an expert at them and we are always learning and tweaking our technique.

Brad Gillingham has some great routines for strength. I would suggest you work on the form for a couple months before jumping into these routines though.


I would also recommend your son work on explosive movements and invest in ladders for footwork. Work with the sled, box jumping, broad jumping, short explosive moments/running. If you're in the Iowa City area spend some money at StrengthU for some training sessions. Ladder drills to get started are below, you can progress from there when you've mastered these.


You can hit on the strength days and have explosive movement days in the same week or alternate weeks. Make sure you KEEP track of progress in a log/excel. Have a plan, follow the plan, don't be discouraged if you're not meeting the plan or hitting the goal for the week. Our bodies change from day to day. Test before and after your program plans. Don't do it while you're in a plan or hero lift. After a program plan REST (meaning light workouts) 2-4 weeks before you jump into another plan like the 12 week one above. Let the kid eat. Not a bunch of sweets and fatty foods. He can have carbs so it doesn't need to be a completely protein heavy diet. He's trying to grow, you need to feed the beast but know it comes over time and not big leaps. And during playing season, don't go nuts on the weights it's not going to benefit him but he does need to do some things to maintain before he busts into offseason where the real work begins.

The biggest thing from a training perspective just from this video is getting better with form. You HAVE to do this. Maximizing your potential while NOT getting injured only comes with proper technique. You can play around with different grips, stances, bar placement that fits best for him because we are all not built the same. However, angles and physics remain so if it doesn't "look" good, it's not good.

One more thing, no foo-foo lifting (bodybuilding). Curls, calf raises, forearms, even most tricep work needs to be cut out. Focus on the big movements for strength/power and incorporate the sport specific explosive footwork stuff instead. He can work on the slow and pump workouts later for the beach bod if he wants to do that. You don't see many bodybuilding type looks in sports and there's a reason for that.
Great stuff thanks!
 
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We are trying to bulk up my soon to be 16-year old son. Trying to get him from a safety body to a linebacker body. When I was in high school, I was able to put on about 30 pounds of mostly muscle in about 8 or 9 months. Lifted 6 days a week, lots of protein, etc. He's motivated and is/has been willing to do the same. It's been almost 30 years but my recollection was doing chest/shoulder monday, biceps/triceps tuesday, legs wednesday, back/neck thursday, chest friday, beach muscles saturday, rest sunday, then start all over again Monday. Let's say it might look like the below, doing 4 sets of 4-6 reps each:
  1. Monday: bench, incline dumbbells, cables flies, decline dumbells
  2. Tuesday: wide grip curl, hammer curls, close grip bench, overhead dumbbell press, and tricep/bicep isolations superset
  3. Wednesday: squats, deadlift, hammy curls, quad extension, calf raises
  4. Thursday: lat pull front, lat pull back, dumbbell rows, shrugs, dumbbell lateral flies
  5. Friday: bench, incline dumbbells, cables flies, decline dumbells
  6. Saturday: shrugs, calf raises, wide grip curl, hammer curls, overhead dumbbell press, and tricep/bicep isolations superset
My son is still in season football so we are scaling this back to really 4 or 5 days right now when I pick him up from practice. We are limited to about an hour in the gym due to homework, eating, etc. We will have more time once football ends. I am his lifting partner which is fun and good for me and I am starting to feeling stronger/better after a week and he is too. Just curious for knowledgeable peeps such as @pink shizzle or @Monzon if that schedule and array of lifts looks good or if you would suggest something different. Like I noted this worked great for me. but who knows it could have been better... I should note we are also doing whey protein shakes and creatine. thanks in advance for any thoughts!
Well, proud moment/brag here, but he stuck with lifting and a few months short of 3 years, he just hit his goal of 4 plates on his bench, for 405. Now time to cut as he goes off to college!
 
Well, proud moment/brag here, but he stuck with lifting and a few months short of 3 years, he just hit his goal of 4 plates on his bench, for a clean 405. Now time to cut as he goes off to college!

405 kilometers holy cow.

That's awesome kidding aside.
 
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