ADVERTISEMENT

What would a Trump trial look like?

torbee

HR King
Gold Member
The New Yorker ponders that:

Comment
January 2 & 9, 2023 Issue

What Donald Trump’s Trial Might Look Like​

Presidents have been impeached, but none has ever been asked, after leaving office, to turn himself in for arraignment. The January 6th committee’s final actions could help change that.
By Amy Davidson Sorkin
December 23, 2022

On October 14th, the day after the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the U.S. Capitol voted to subpoena Donald Trump, he released a long letter of “anger, disappointment, and complaint.” The committee, he said, had “perpetuated a Show Trial the likes of which this Country has never seen before,” with “no Due Process, no Cross-Examination, no ‘real’ Republican members, and no legitimacy.” (And, he added, it got “very poor television ratings.”) The committee, of course, was not staging any sort of trial; it was conducting an inquiry into a series of events that culminated in Congress members fleeing a mob. But at its final public meeting, on December 19th, it voted to send criminal referrals to the Department of Justice regarding four felonies that Trump might have committed. If he wants a proper trial, the committee may have helped him get one.

One of the referrals is for violating a statute in the U.S. criminal code that deals with inciting, assisting, or giving aid or comfort to an insurrection. The others are for obstruction of an official proceeding (namely, the counting of electoral votes), conspiracy to defraud the United States, and conspiracy to make a false statement. Referrals like these do not oblige the D.O.J. to begin a prosecution, or to pursue the exact charges that they specify. Initially, those choices lie with Jack Smith, who, in November, was named special counsel for the department’s investigation into January 6th, with a focus on Trump. (His remit also includes the question of whether Trump improperly kept classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.) If Smith recommends that Trump be charged, Attorney General Merrick Garland would have to sign off, and a grand jury would have to approve an indictment.

There is no exact model for what such a trial might look like. Presidents have been impeached, but none has ever been asked, after leaving office, to turn himself in for arraignment, with the prospect of arrest if he failed to comply. No judge has had to consider the question of cash bail for a billionaire who once lived in the White House, or asked the former head of state to turn over his passport. The voir dire of potential jurors would be an unprecedented spectacle; so would the mug shot.

Trump, however, would not be alone in facing trial as a result of January 6th. The D.O.J. has charged some nine hundred defendants, and has successfully prosecuted several members of the Oath Keepers on charges that match or parallel some of those in the committee’s referral. Trump, unlike the Oath Keepers, did not enter the Capitol on January 6th. From the White House, though, to take one example from an executive summary of the committee’s final report, he “repeatedly and unlawfully pressured” Vice-President Mike Pence to reject several states’ electoral votes in favor of fraudulent ones. (John Eastman, the former law professor who helped Trump devise what became known as the “fake electors” scheme, was the subject of committee referrals, too.)

The committee’s nine members—including the Republicans Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger—ran a tightly managed process. In televised hearings, they were able to play the snippets of videotaped testimony that they judged most effective. Prosecutors at trial, by contrast, have to deal with the live testimony of the witnesses before them. The rules of discovery mean that Trump’s lawyers would have access to full transcripts of depositions and to any exculpatory material the prosecutors possess. Evidentiary disputes, such as the one over whether Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony that a Secret Service agent told her about an altercation in a Presidential vehicle counted as inadmissible hearsay, would be addressed not by tweets but by litigation. Another point of contention would be whether Trump knew that he’d lost the election and was thus acting corruptly. Witnesses such as Bill Stepien, Trump’s campaign manager, and Greg Jacob, Pence’s counsel, could speak to that. But Trump could call witnesses, too—and prosecutors could cross-examine them. He would also get to decide whether to take the stand himself, a decision in which his vanity would surely be a factor.

Trump has made many frivolous claims of executive privilege, including one, involving a document request from the January 6th committee, that the Supreme Court rejected. A trial would no doubt bring new objections and appeals, some of which might be more substantive. All of this would take time, and the first Republican primaries for 2024 are fast approaching. An indictment and a trial would not legally bar Trump from running for President again. (Indeed, any attempt to block him from office if he’s convicted would face what are almost certainly insurmountable constitutional challenges.) And whoever is sworn in as President in January, 2025, would have the option of pardoning Trump.

But a Presidential pardon would be limited to federal crimes. The first indictment of Trump related to January 6th may come at the state level, in Fulton County, Georgia, where District Attorney Fani Willis appears to be in the late stages of her own investigation. Willis has a repertoire of Georgia laws to draw on, including a statute on criminal solicitation of election fraud, which would seem to describe the phone call in which Trump demanded that Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger “find” him more than eleven thousand votes. A special grand jury has been sitting for months, and has heard testimony from a range of witnesses, including Governor Brian Kemp. Georgia would likely be the focus of any federal trial as well, because the Trump team’s attempts to overturn the election there were especially blatant. In addition to the Raffensperger call, which was recorded, the effort to advance the fake-elector scheme in Georgia left a rich paper trail. Incidentally, Georgia trials, unlike federal ones, can be televised.
Trials inevitably have uncontrollable aspects, even when the defendants are more predictable than Trump. They are rightly harder and riskier for prosecutors than hearings are for members of Congress. What’s at stake for Trump is his freedom, not just his television ratings: the charges that the January 6th committee referred carry sentences of up to twenty years in prison. But the adversarial nature of the process can be highly productive. The committee came up with a good deal of evidence; a trial is where it can be tested. ♦

Published in the print edition of the January 2 & 9, 2023, issue, with the headline “Trump on Trial?.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: cigaretteman
I trust the career prosecutors, and most of the judiciary. I won't automatically a Trump appointed judge if we see federal charges brought.
What scares me is the thought of the possibility for violence by cult members, and the GQP politicians who will inflame the cult members. What Josh Hawley did on 1/6 will be the bare minimum. I can see Ted Cruz, MTG, Hawley, Cotton... standing in front of the courthouse spraying gasoline over the crowd and then pulling out a Zippo.
 
It isn't just Trump, though. Why hasn't anyone at the ringleader level been arrested so far? Why is it that only the foot soldiers have been arrested? We need to see Mark Meadows in cuffs. Michael Flynn. Roger Stone. The lawyers who legitimized the coup.
 
It's now came out he called Nevada officials about send8ng fake electors...and his son and Roger Stone were calling states 4 days BEFORE the election about sending fake electors

Anyone that votes for him a 3rd time are huge pieces of shit
 
Last edited:
It's now came out he called Nevada officials about send fake electors...and his son and Roger Stone was calling states 4 days BEFORE the election

Anyone that votes for him a 3rd time are huge pieces of shit
This has been one of the most shocking things to me. Multiple states had fake electors submitted. Why haven't all of those states started investigations? This includes blue states like Michigan and Wisconsin? I guess I kind of get it why Arizona's elected Republicans don't care, but you'd think a career person might have raised their hand.
 
By the way, the New Yorker is also publishing the ENTIRE Jan. 6 Committee report. This very long forward by the New Yorker editor is a good (long) read:

That was a long article. But a great read. Anyone that can't comprehend the massive dubious actions that were taken during the post 2020 election must have their head in cement
 
As for the acrual proceedings, the writer is correct: voir dire and jury selection will be extra crucial to the outcome of a prosecution against DT. Members of the drawn jury pool will essentially get an FBI level background check by a team of experts and advisers from both sides. The jury will obviously need to be sequestered and protected.
 
As for the acrual proceedings, the writer is correct: voir dire and jury selection will be extra crucial to the outcome of a prosecution against DT. Members of the drawn jury pool will essentially get an FBI level background check by a team of experts and advisers from both sides. The jury will obviously need to be sequestered and protected.
Depending on if/what he is charged with it will be interesting to see the fight over where the trial is held. Trump will immediately fight having it in DC or Northern Virginia. He'll go for Florida, or some S-hole state saying he can only get a fair trial there.
Random thought, I wonder how much money his legal team will demand up front?
 
It would be the most entertaining circus ever. EV-ERRRR.

iu
 
Depending on if/what he is charged with it will be interesting to see the fight over where the trial is held. Trump will immediately fight having it in DC or Northern Virginia. He'll go for Florida, or some S-hole state saying he can only get a fair trial there.
Random thought, I wonder how much money his legal team will demand up front?
It looks like Fani Willis, Fulton County, Georgia, might get the first shot as I believe her team is just now wrapping up the special grand jury investigation.
 
Would he even comply with an order of arraignment? I could see him going to one of his overseas properties as soon as he caught wind that charges were being filed and fighting any attempt at extradition.
I could be wrong but I believe DT would absolutely relish the spotlight. More concerning would the opportunity it would give him to whip up a frenzy. I have no doubt that he would summon his MAGA cult and signal a call for mass protest. The mililtia types will understand and come armed and ready to raise hell. Courthouse security will be unprecedented. I mean, how could it be otherwise?
 
Would he even comply with an order of arraignment? I could see him going to one of his overseas properties as soon as he caught wind that charges were being filed and fighting any attempt at extradition.
I just want it all to be over with. The country needs to move on from Trump. If Donald spending the rest of his days in exile is what it takes, then so be it.
 
This has been one of the most shocking things to me. Multiple states had fake electors submitted. Why haven't all of those states started investigations? This includes blue states like Michigan and Wisconsin? I guess I kind of get it why Arizona's elected Republicans don't care, but you'd think a career person might have raised their hand.
Next month Michigan will become a blue state for the first time in 40 years.

Both the state senate and state house are under republican control. That will change next month.

I don't believe that the state sponsored an alternative slate of electors, certainly the republican bigwigs wanted to but they didn't achieve their goal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lucas80
Do you really think he will see a day in jail? I completely agree that should go away for a long time, but I just have no faith that will happen though so if he just goes away I'd be so happy.
So, in the future if someone pulls this same stunt and fails, he/she would just have to leave the country?
 
It looks like Fani Willis, Fulton County, Georgia, might get the first shot as I believe her team is just now wrapping up the special grand jury investigation.
The one advantage Willis has is Trump on tape, and a witness in Brad Raffensperger who has said that he felt threatened by Trump's call, and that Trump intended it to be perceived that way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Finance85 and nu2u
I’m afraid he’ll beat the charges and become more insufferable than he is now.
I can see him beating any 1/6 related charges, unless someone flips. The Georgia investigation is very interesting, the ability for the Trump Org's tax issues to grow into something more is interesting. But, the one thing he's going to struggle mightily against is the documents incident. If that results in charges, and it should, it's very cut and dried. No honest juror would be able to sit and have established procedures explained to them, then listen to the fantasy world explanations from the Trump defense, and vote to acquit.
 
It would completely engulf the OJ trial as far as coverage and interest and I never thought I would see that in my lifetime
 
  • Like
Reactions: torbee
It isn't just Trump, though. Why hasn't anyone at the ringleader level been arrested so far? Why is it that only the foot soldiers have been arrested? We need to see Mark Meadows in cuffs. Michael Flynn. Roger Stone. The lawyers who legitimized the coup.

I suspect it is "all in good time". With the nature of this, it will and continue to be slow. Everyone before them must dot every i and cross every t. This is the slow process people complain about all the time, only amplified.

It's now came out he called Nevada officials about send8ng fake electors...and his son and Roger Stone were calling states 4 days BEFORE the election about sending fake electors

Anyone that votes for him a 3rd time are huge pieces of shit

Unless of course, they "have no other options".......
 
I’m afraid he’ll beat the charges and become more insufferable than he is now.
Acquital is always a possibility with a jury trial, even with exceptionally strong evidence of guilt. Still, the charges must be filed. IMO the long term consequences of not charging the strong cases are worse and, let's face it, Trump will continue to be insufferable in any event.

The more I read opinions from tax experts who are reviewing his returns, the more it seems likely that tax fraud will be the case sure to sink Trump. The NY AG also appears to be developing a powerful civil case against Trump.

Trump has alot of criminal exposure. I don't know how the DOJ can let Trump's illegal retention and concealment of highly classified government documents go unchallenged. The Georgia racketeering case, fake electors scheme, inciting insurrection.... its a crime spree.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mattymoknows
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT