When Kris Murray plays at least 17 minutes, he averages 14.7 ppg

Lighting Hawk

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I think Patrick deserves to start we are winning fine with Kris at the minutes he’s getting. CMAC needs more minutes too he’s the glue. How can anyone honestly think Jbo shouldn’t start? He should play at least 35 minutes a game.

Also, we definitely need to start JO at PG tonight, with Mulvey at the 2. Alligns perfectly with the current trend of minutes being distributed by Fran and the logic behind some of his subbing. 😏😉
 

Lighting Hawk

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Oh just to throw some fuel on the fire:

Kris got 23 points in 24 minutes
Keegan played 29 minutes

Payton played 6 and got 3.
Connor played 10.. was 0-3 from 3.

Isiah Thompson played 29 minutes, 4-6 from 3, 18 points…. He’s probably their 3rd best guard/perimeter player after Ivey and stefonovich and maybe 5th best scorer overall?

Pmac & Jordan played a team high 30 minutes combined for 3-11 from 3. Combined for 17 points. Pmac was a perfect 4-4 inside the arc though. JBo had 3 turnovers. Like almost no other stats for playing 30 minutes and being our heralded all time 3 point leader, assists leader and top 10 all time points leader. That’s basically what he’s done every night but will see no less than 25 minutes, while you’ve got guys like sandfort and Perkins who are just as capable, younger, longer, with a higher ceiling, playing 5-15 mpg getting yanked the second they make a mistake.

Just more evidence Fran will play JBo without any second thought. No mistake will get him benched, Fran “trusts” him through it. “He’s my 6th year honorary son, gotta make sure he gets his minutes this year cuz I begged him to come back!!”

lol
 

Auger

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Iowa really lacks a 2 guard. Even just an average B1G 2 guard that can shoot 37% from 3 and play solid defense. The position is a gaping wound for Iowa. Bohannon stunk it up on defense and he struggles to make much if any impact during B1G play.

Kris will likely be awarded with 11 mins against PSU this next game. Dude is so talented he can still light it up playing out of position from the 5 and 4. Fran doesn't want to admit Kris is the key to this team. Give Kris 30 mins a game and take some pressure off Keegan.
 

HawkLogic

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Literally would take Brad Davison over Bohannon. That's how disappointing this is.

davison is having a good shooting season and can defend his position.

Wisconsin has 1 stud, and 3 meh players, and Davison and is competing for B1G title....so yeah, I would say Davison is playing way better than JBO.

Iowa has two studs in the Murrays, above average PG in JoeT, and has a sub .500 B1G record.
 

KcTo

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davison is having a good shooting season and can defend his position.

Wisconsin has 1 stud, and 3 meh players, and Davison and is competing for B1G title....so yeah, I would say Davison is playing way better than JBO.

Iowa has two studs in the Murrays, above average PG in JoeT, and has a sub .500 B1G record.
You are correct.
Iowa has 2 studs,
— 1 that doesn’t start
— both play out of position
— both are exposed to fouls that limit there minutes
-- both get benched for fouls yet never are in late game foul trouble.

= massive coaching blunders

JoeT is playing better and better
— yet JoeT gets disappeared
- JoeT should be playing 30m a game along with Murray’s.

= moderate coaching blunder
 

EagleHawk

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You are correct.
Iowa has 2 studs,
— 1 that doesn’t start
— both play out of position
— both are exposed to fouls that limit there minutes
-- both get benched for fouls yet never are in late game foul trouble.

= massive coaching blunders

JoeT is playing better and better
— yet JoeT gets disappeared
- JoeT should be playing 30m a game along with Murray’s.

= moderate coaching blunder
Keegan has been benched for fouls twice, and one of those times had 4 fouls with 10 minutes left. Kris fouled out last night. But yeah, never in late game foul trouble.:confused:
 
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KcTo

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Keegan has been benched for fouls twice, and one of those times finished with 4 fouls. Kris fouled out last night. But yeah, never in late game foul trouble.:confused:
WRONG and stupidly WRONG.

Keegan was benched, his incredibly efficient production taken out of game, to be replaced by CMac or Perk who are vastly inferior players ans for what? keegan ends up with only 3 fouls, we lost all,of his production for nothing.

and the other time he did not end up,fouling out so again we lost His productive minutes

in both cases we play inferior players needlessly, we lose points, we needlessly give excess offensive and defensive efficiency away…a great coach maximizes and optimizes these, not piss it away by benching Keegan…

and checking Kris fouls out with 11 seconds, so IOWA functionally loses kris for 11 seconds, how on gods Green earth is losing a bench player withn11 seconds a bad thing? Christ, hes Not even good enough to start….so why is bad if you lose him within 11 seconds in a 10 point game ?

apologies to the members here but this asinine way of managing your best players can not be defended
 
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CO_hawk

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Its funny that when Keegan goes out that Kris has to be in. Hard to say he's not our 2nd best player.
 

jonesy5960

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Keegan has been benched for fouls twice, and one of those times had 4 fouls with 10 minutes left. Kris fouled out last night. But yeah, never in late game foul trouble.:confused:
As soon as it happened I said we'd see people on here using last night as an example that validates Fran's strategy. Kris fouled out with 11 seconds left. If only Fran had sat him down in the second half we wouldn't have lost Kris for the final 11 seconds of the game. Thank God he pulled Keegan for 13 minutes in the first half or he might have made a similar exit. Brilliant!
 
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Franisdaman

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Overall, I'm a huge Fran Fan.... but it borders on coaching malpractice benching Keegan for the last 13 minutes of the first half. The game got too far away from them in the first half.

To be fair:

* Many coaches have the 2 foul rule

* People on here would be bitching and saying it borders on coaching malpractice if Keegan picked up his 3rd foul in the first half, so no matter what Fran does, there will be bitching and second guessing


It's a no win situation.
 
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jonesy5960

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To be fair:

* Many coaches have the 2 foul rule

* People on here would be bitching and saying it borders on coaching malpractice if Keegan picked up his 3rd foul in the first half, so no matter what Fran does, there will be bitching and second guessing


It's a no win situation.
Yes. Many coaches have the 2 foul rule. It's classic risk aversion where the coach hurts his own team more often than not by failing to assess the risk of falling way behind while their star player sits and replacing the maybe (player MIGHT foul out and lose minutes) with the certain (player WILL lose minutes as coach removes him from the game).

Now before some idiot jumps all over me and tells me I should be coaching the team, I will defer to Mike Krzyzewski on this topic. Last I checked he's done pretty well.

 
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Franisdaman

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Yes. Many coaches have the 2 foul rule. It's classic risk aversion where the coach hurts his own team more often than not by failing to assess the risk of falling way behind while their star player sits and replacing the maybe (player MIGHT foul out and lose minutes) with the certain (player WILL lose minutes as coach removes him from the game).

Now before some idiot jumps all over me and tells me I should be coaching the team, I will defer to Mike Krzyzewski on this topic. Last I checked he's done pretty well.


And, in the Purdue game, Keegan only ended up with 3 total fouls and, ironically, it was Kris who fouled out.

I think Fran has to take another look at his 2 foul policy and tweak it. He's stubborn, but he's not stupid.
 
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KcTo

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To be fair:

* Many coaches have the 2 foul rule

* People on here would be bitching and saying it borders on coaching malpractice if Keegan picked up his 3rd foul in the first half, so no matter what Fran does, there will be bitching and second guessing


It's a no win situation.
why do we always fail to add the 2nd deadly sin of the 2 foul mandate is that it punishes aggressive defense and incentives soft defense?

this hard and fast mandate turns every player into Patrick McCAFF an athlete that can play defense but has been conditioned NOT to play aggressive defense that may lead to fouls that will lead to bench?

= poster blunder to not discuss the effect on soft defense when discussing the 2 foul
 
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Franisdaman

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why do we always fail to add the 2nd deadly sin of the 2 foul mandate is that it punishes aggressive defense and incentives soft defense?

this hard and fast mandate turns every player into Patrick McCAFF an athlete that can play defense but has been conditioned NOT to play aggressive defense that may lead to fouls that will lead to bench?

= poster blunder to not discuss the effect on soft defense when discussing the 2 foul


Here are your poster blunders:

* The 2 foul rule "incentives" soft defense? Tell that to Joe Toussaint.

* The 2 foul rule turns every player into Patrick McCaffery? That's a laughable statement, but hey, you got your dig in.
 
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KcTo

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Here are your poster blunders:

* The 2 foul rule "incentives" soft defense? Tell that to Joe Toussaint.

* The 2 foul rule turns every player into Patrick McCaffery? That's a laughable statement, but hey, you got your dig in.
i would posit that ‘not even the penalty of guaranteed banishment to the 2 foul rule‘ is enough of a detriment to take the JoeT aggression out of JoeT, he’s just who he is. So I would also put forth that is an exception to the rule.

I would cite examples like PMac, who averages 1 foul/game, or even NBA players like Tyler Cook and JoeW who have NBA defense, but rarely showed that prowess at Iowa, particularly in the 1H. They played more like PMac does, soft 1st halves.

the statement really intends to mean that this strategy turns players into soft defensive players, like PMac is, not the literal translation that they turn into the actual person,

i would like to hear the argument that the 2 foul rule leads to better defense outcomes, and not poorer argument, please any poster here feel free to enlightenment me.

also, the ‘posters blunder’ comment Wasn’t intended to be directed at you personally, rather it was intended to be directed at those (posters) that make the argument only about wether a player should be inserted back in risking a 3rd foul.

im contending that part #2 of this philosophy is actually much greater and has a much greater detrimental impact on the teams over all defensive demeanor , essentially turning them into passive defensive players , however, as you correctly noted, some players won’t or can’t adjust there styles, eg JoeT.

no offense intended…
 

Franisdaman

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i would posit that ‘not even the penalty of guaranteed banishment to the 2 foul rule‘ is enough of a detriment to take the JoeT aggression out of JoeT, he’s just who he is. So I would also put forth that is an exception to the rule.

I would cite examples like PMac, who averages 1 foul/game, or even NBA players like Tyler Cook and JoeW who have NBA defense, but rarely showed that prowess at Iowa, particularly in the 1H. They played more like PMac does, soft 1st halves.

the statement really intends to mean that this strategy turns players into soft defensive players, like PMac is, not the literal translation that they turn into the actual person,

i would like to hear the argument that the 2 foul rule leads to better defense outcomes, and not poorer argument, please any poster here feel free to enlightenment me.

also, the ‘posters blunder’ comment Wasn’t intended to be directed at you personally, rather it was intended to be directed at those (posters) that make the argument only about wether a player should be inserted back in risking a 3rd foul.

im contending that part #2 of this philosophy is actually much greater and has a much greater detrimental impact on the teams over all defensive demeanor , essentially turning them into passive defensive players , however, as you correctly noted, some players won’t or can’t adjust there styles, eg JoeT.

no offense intended…


I definitely think there is merit to your point that players do not want to get that 2nd foul in the 1st half. As a result, they might not be as aggressive at a block attempt, for example.

At the same time, if Fran leaves the player in with 2 fouls, that player is going to avoid like heck getting a 3rd foul in the 1st half. So, does that player get even "softer" on D as a result?

But I also think if we simply focused on the little things like rebounding/boxing out we would have much better outcomes. We probably beat Illinois at home, for example.
 

Lighting Hawk

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I definitely think there is merit to your point that players do not want to get that 2nd foul in the 1st half. As a result, they might not be as aggressive at a block attempt, for example.

At the same time, if Fran leaves the player in with 2 fouls, that player is going to avoid like heck getting a 3rd foul in the 1st half. So, does that player get even "softer" on D as a result?

But I also think if we simply focused on the little things like rebounding/boxing out we would have much better outcomes. We probably beat Illinois at home, for example.

Actually good points Fran. Merit to both of your sides. I think KC is saying more so we need to not be as black and white with the rule, for guys that are the strongest defenders on the team that can shut guys down, they maybe should get a longer leash. But we gotta do something about guys just being too hesitant to foul in the first place on D (Pmac) in fear of getting benched or just lack of defensive aggression.
 
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Franisdaman

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Actually good points Fran. Merit to both of your sides. I think KC is saying more so we need to not be as black and white with the rule, for guys that are the strongest defenders on the team that can shut guys down, they maybe should get a longer leash. But we gotta do something about guys just being too hesitant to foul in the first place on D (Pmac) in fear of getting benched or just lack of defensive aggression.

I agree on the 2 foul rule; Fran needs to be more flexible, especially if the game is getting out of hand in the first half.

* We trailed by 15 at the half; that's hard to overcome in the 2nd half. We made our runs in the 2nd half, but we all knew Purdue would respond.

* Keegan only ended up with 3 fouls total vs Purdue (2 in the 1st half, just 1 in the 2nd half).


PMac, btw, led the team with 3 offensive rebounds (Kris also had 3). So, that is not exactly being soft and unaggressive, imo.
 
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HawkLogic

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Keegan has been benched for fouls twice, and one of those times had 4 fouls with 10 minutes left. Kris fouled out last night. But yeah, never in late game foul trouble.:confused:

you know who is never in foul trouble---PMAC. Can you guess why?
 

KcTo

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I agree on the 2 foul rule; Fran needs to be more flexible, especially if the game is getting out of hand in the first half.

* We trailed by 15 at the half; that's hard to overcome in the 2nd half. We made our runs in the 2nd half, but we all knew Purdue would respond.

* Keegan only ended up with 3 fouls total vs Purdue (2 in the 1st half, just 1 in the 2nd half).


PMac, btw, led the team with 3 offensive rebounds (Kris also had 3). So, that is not exactly being soft and unaggressive, imo.
Purdue scored 48 1st half points shooting 64%, out rebounded IOWA by 6, with 7 off rebounds.

PMac in 13 min had 0 Def Rebounds, 0 Blocks, and 0 steals…
PMac was nearly invisible on the Defensive end as IOWA got blitzed.

If that’s not the line of a soft player I don’t know what is?
 

Franisdaman

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Purdue scored 48 1st half points shooting 64%, out rebounded IOWA by 6, with 7 off rebounds.

PMac in 13 min had 0 Def Rebounds, 0 Blocks, and 0 steals…
PMac was nearly invisible on the Defensive end as IOWA got blitzed.

If that’s not the line of a soft player I don’t know what is?

but, he had 3 offensive rebounds for the game, so is he still soft?

and instead of calling one player soft because he is the coach's son, you should take a look at the entire Iowa team that is very poor at rebounding. there is plenty of blame to go around. after all, rebounding is all about effort, toughness and desire and we are constantly outrebounded, and it is not just a PMac problem.
 

Bulldogs1974

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but, he had 3 offensive rebounds for the game, so is he still soft?

and instead of calling one player soft because he is the coach's son, you should take a look at the entire Iowa team that is very poor at rebounding. there is plenty of blame to go around. after all, rebounding is all about effort, toughness and desire and we are constantly outrebounded, and it is not just a PMac problem.
His effort on offense has not been questioned by anyone. The problem is there are two sides of the court.
 
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topherchris20

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I think Patrick deserves to start we are winning fine with Kris at the minutes he’s getting. CMAC needs more minutes too he’s the glue. How can anyone honestly think Jbo shouldn’t start? He should play at least 35 minutes a game.

Also, we definitely need to start JO at PG tonight, with Mulvey at the 2. Alligns perfectly with the current trend of minutes being distributed by Fran and the logic behind some of his subbing. 😏😉
Wow you had me in the first couple lines. Thanks for the laugh 😂
 
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Ronman

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respectfully disagree…

ferentz started Tyrone Tracy at start of season, but the 2 freshman got more snaps and targets as season progressed..
Ferentz has gone to 2.0 and 3.0, Fran hasn’t changed since he been here
In my mind, Ferentz regressed from 2.0 and is now at Kirk 1.2.
 
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KcTo

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but, he had 3 offensive rebounds for the game, so is he still soft?

and instead of calling one player soft because he is the coach's son, you should take a look at the entire Iowa team that is very poor at rebounding. there is plenty of blame to go around. after all, rebounding is all about effort, toughness and desire and we are constantly outrebounded, and it is not just a PMac problem.
i only presented objective data and evidence,
I did not, nor ever have, connected PMac’s playing time to his status as coaches kid, you may have me confused with others here?
my assessments don’t even need names, just looking at their data, their production,
if you look at those objective data points you will see that PMac delivered zero on the defensive side of the court in last game…

is this last point not obvious?
 
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