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When truly grading Iowa under Brands, numbers don't lie

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HR Heisman
Nov 20, 2014
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I figured these in another thread, but think they belong under a much better related title. For all those that have been vocal about Brands "not getting it done", Here is the tale of the tape:


Just so you understand NO TEAM has finished top 5 every season since 2008, EXCEPT Iowa. Even PSU took 6th in 2015.

2008: 1st-117.5 won by 38.5
2009: 1st-96.5 won by 4.5
2010: 1st-134.5 won by 44.5
2011: 3rd-86.5 lost by 21 to PSU and 7 to Cornell. Finished 16.5 ahead of 4th place OKState tOSU(29th-20.5)
2012: 3rd-107.5 lost by 35.5 to PSU and 10 to Minnesota. Finished 5 ahead of #4 Cornell(3 champs). tOSU(5th-68.5) OkState(6th-66)
2013: 4th-73 lost by 50.5 to PSU, 46.5 to OkState and 37.5 to Minn. Beat #5 Cornell by 8. tOSU(6th-59.5)
2014: 4th-78.5 lost by 31 to PSU, 25.5 to Minn and 18 to OkState. Beat #5 Edinboro by 16.5. tOSU(6th-57)
2015: 2nd-84 lost by 18 to tOSU. Beat #3 Edinboro by 8.5. OkState (7th-65) PSU (6th-67.5)
2016: 5th-81 lost by 42 to PSU, 16.5 to OkState, 5 to tOSU and 1 to VTech. Beat #6 Mizz by 6.5.
2017: 4th-97 lost by 49.5 to PSU, 13 to tOSU and 6 to OkState. Beat #5 Mizz by 10.5.
2018: 3rd-97 lost by 44.5 to PSU and 37.5 to tOSU. Beat #4 Michigan by 17. OkState (t-13 37.5)
2019: 4th-73 lost by 61.5 to PSU, 20.5 to tOSU and 8 to OkState. Beat #5 Michigan by 13.5

So, even IF you start in 2011, AFTER their 3 Titles, they still average a higher placement and more points than every team but PSU. Even if you go strictly by who places higher, they are 4-5 against tOSU and OkState, but are again ahead of every other team by a very large margin.

With that said, PSU is blowing them away, but they are blowing EVERYONE away.

Team placement and average points scored from 2011-2019:

PSU: 14/9= 1.556 place and 121.833
Iowa: 32/9= 3.556 place and 86.389
OkState: 43/9= 4.778 place and 84.833
tOSU: 56/9=6.222 place and 81.278

After them, no one is close.
 
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Nice summary. And considering the current pipeline at Iowa the next 2-3 years could put more distance between us and everyone else not PSU the last decade. But I think like the second poster pointed out, Iowa needs to claim a title in the next 2-3 years to keep this conversation interesting. Without the titles this conversation takes on a whole other appearance.
 
Nice summary. And considering the current pipeline at Iowa the next 2-3 years could put more distance between us and everyone else not PSU the last decade. But I think like the second poster pointed out, Iowa needs to claim a title in the next 2-3 years to keep this conversation interesting. Without the titles this conversation takes on a whole other appearance.

I get what you are saying, but it should NOT. Penn State is LITERALLY a "Perfect Storm".

1.) You had the biggest name, possibly ever, in DI Wrestling come to the #1 hot bed state for High School wrestling, in Pennsylvania.
2.)The team he takes over in Pennsylvania, PSU, has quite possibly the most infuential, powerful, nationally recognized Athletic Department there is(this is evidenced by how quickly they rebounded from a scandal that would have permanently crippled most Universities).
3.)That AD is fully supporting the wrestling program.
4.)Their RTC is off the charts with funding that dwarfs every other RTC.
5.)Their Facility is as good as any.

Right now, there simply IS NOT a combination of all the above that could consistently compete with PSU. Right now, tOSU is the closest because they match up better than any other school from 2-5. But, even a coach(and staff) like Sanderson(s), would not fully get to the level PSU is currently at with tOSU.

You can say "If you aren't 1st, you are last!" all you want. But, that won't change the fact that Brands simply doesn't have nearly what Sanderson has to work with, let alone Ryan......
 
I get what you are saying, but it should NOT. Penn State is LITERALLY a "Perfect Storm".

1.) You had the biggest name, possibly ever, in DI Wrestling come to the #1 hot bed state for High School wrestling, in Pennsylvania.
2.)The team he takes over in Pennsylvania, PSU, has quite possibly the most infuential, powerful, nationally recognized Athletic Department there is(this is evidenced by how quickly they rebounded from a scandal that would have permanently crippled most Universities).
3.)That AD is fully supporting the wrestling program.
4.)Their RTC is off the charts with funding that dwarfs every other RTC.
5.)Their Facility is as good as any.

Right now, there simply IS NOT a combination of all the above that could consistently compete with PSU. Right now, tOSU is the closest because they match up better than any other school from 2-5. But, even a coach(and staff) like Sanderson(s), would not fully get to the level PSU is currently at with tOSU.

You can say "If you aren't 1st, you are last!" all you want. But, that won't change the fact that Brands simply doesn't have nearly what Sanderson has to work with, let alone Ryan......
so you are saying the our Athletic Department isn't as good, and our AD doesn't support wrestling as much of PSU? We just upgraded our facilities when Carver was renovated. Brands was happy at the time. I just don't buy those excuses. Cael has just out recruited Brands and is a good strategist in recruiting, team development, and individual match strategy. It doesn't hurt that his heel pick is low risk in this world of scramblers, although not all his wrestlers are adept at it. Brands was never a good recruiter and didn't put a priority on it--certainly getting better. Cael was knocking on doors and had a plan. Ask Bo Nickal how much contact he had from Iowa in high school? There is a big list. Ask Thomas Gilman how Brands recruited him. Brands missed the boat on wrestling clubs developing kids so much that they come in top notch. Brands has certainly come around, but I don't buy the excuses you list with the exception of recruiting territory (although doesn't Iowa have more starters from PA than PSU?), and I suspect PSU has bigger better sugar daddies, just like Iowa had in the Gable era.
 
/Thread

Cael himself wouldn't do as well coaching at Iowa as he's done at PSU. The advantages there are clear. Nice post MSU.
SMH. Why in a thread about Tom Brands would you feel the need to bring up Cael? I can already see it... in about 5 more post you will start complaining about PSU fans being trolls and hijacking this thread to be about Cael. You have such a little brother complex.
 
If the goal is to finish top 5 every season we're totally nailing it. But that's moving the goalposts to fit our reality rather than moving our reality to reach the goalposts. Finishing top 5 every season has never been articulated as a goal of Iowa Wrestling. Lowering expectations helps no one.
 
so you are saying the our Athletic Department isn't as good, and our AD doesn't support wrestling as much of PSU? We just upgraded our facilities when Carver was renovated. Brands was happy at the time. I just don't buy those excuses. Cael has just out recruited Brands and is a good strategist in recruiting, team development, and individual match strategy. It doesn't hurt that his heel pick is low risk in this world of scramblers, although not all his wrestlers are adept at it. Brands was never a good recruiter and didn't put a priority on it--certainly getting better. Cael was knocking on doors and had a plan. Ask Bo Nickal how much contact he had from Iowa in high school? There is a big list. Ask Thomas Gilman how Brands recruited him. Brands missed the boat on wrestling clubs developing kids so much that they come in top notch. Brands has certainly come around, but I don't buy the excuses you list with the exception of recruiting territory (although doesn't Iowa have more starters from PA than PSU?), and I suspect PSU has bigger better sugar daddies, just like Iowa had in the Gable era.
He can recruit. He recruited 2 national champs and a finalist in one class to Virginia Tech. I’ve always felt the landscape changed under there feet. The 2010 class while highly rated was a bust because of a philosophy that was working but changed when Sanderson went to PSU and Ryan went to TOSU.
I feel it’s taken this long to recover from that bust. And turn the corner with a new philosophy that brings home gold but in my opinion not to the Iowa standard of old.

In my opinion the only coach in the country that could match Brands at Iowa is Sanderson. I also feel if Brands was at either of those schools he would have similar results.
 
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so you are saying the our Athletic Department isn't as good, and our AD doesn't support wrestling as much of PSU? We just upgraded our facilities when Carver was renovated. Brands was happy at the time. I just don't buy those excuses. Cael has just out recruited Brands and is a good strategist in recruiting, team development, and individual match strategy. It doesn't hurt that his heel pick is low risk in this world of scramblers, although not all his wrestlers are adept at it. Brands was never a good recruiter and didn't put a priority on it--certainly getting better. Cael was knocking on doors and had a plan. Ask Bo Nickal how much contact he had from Iowa in high school? There is a big list. Ask Thomas Gilman how Brands recruited him. Brands missed the boat on wrestling clubs developing kids so much that they come in top notch. Brands has certainly come around, but I don't buy the excuses you list with the exception of recruiting territory (although doesn't Iowa have more starters from PA than PSU?), and I suspect PSU has bigger better sugar daddies, just like Iowa had in the Gable era.

You can "not buy it" all you want. It doesn't make it any less true. The PSU Athletic Department dwarfs Iowa in both power and national recognition. I doubt many of the most ardent Iowa sports fans would argue against that. By transitive property, even if both support their programs equally, the amount of support is still very disproportionate.

Cael definitely has outrecruited Brands, but that is not only due solely to him, but the other key factors I listed. If he stayed at ISU, he wasn't going to draw nearly what he has at PSU and he KNEW that Also, very few of his wrestlers actually wrestle(d) close to his style. Most were just that good at what worked best for them.

Brands was always a good recruiter. Just because he wasn't landing top 10 guys year after year doesn't mean he wasn't landing talent. He just was a disciple of the Gable philosoply of getting the "right guy" vs. the current getting the "best guy" and making him the "right guy".

What in the hell does recruiting Bo Nickal Prove?

Finally, having to recruit so hard out of state takes a HEAVY TOLL. PSU and tOSU have HEAVILY benefited from local talent. Yes, they still land National Recruits, BUT they are NOT solely reliant on them.....
 
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If the goal is to finish top 5 every season we're totally nailing it. But that's moving the goalposts to fit our reality rather than moving our reality to reach the goalposts. Finishing top 5 every season has never been articulated as a goal of Iowa Wrestling. Lowering expectations helps no one.

That may be true, but HOW do you see Iowa truly becoming competitive with the current PSU and tOSU? Do you honestly believe that Iowa provides a coaching staff the same resources to be competitive, let alone pass them?

Because, let's be clear, they ARE the only programs currently ahead of Iowa. OkState is the only other school remotely close.

I get that you spent time their at their Apex and are fully vested. However, you seem like a bright guy and a realist. Just because you want Iowa still at the top, is it really fair to simply expect it to be so?
 
I get what you are saying, but it should NOT. Penn State is LITERALLY a "Perfect Storm".

1.) You had the biggest name, possibly ever, in DI Wrestling come to the #1 hot bed state for High School wrestling, in Pennsylvania.
2.)The team he takes over in Pennsylvania, PSU, has quite possibly the most infuential, powerful, nationally recognized Athletic Department there is(this is evidenced by how quickly they rebounded from a scandal that would have permanently crippled most Universities).
3.)That AD is fully supporting the wrestling program.
4.)Their RTC is off the charts with funding that dwarfs every other RTC.
5.)Their Facility is as good as any.

Right now, there simply IS NOT a combination of all the above that could consistently compete with PSU. Right now, tOSU is the closest because they match up better than any other school from 2-5. But, even a coach(and staff) like Sanderson(s), would not fully get to the level PSU is currently at with tOSU.

You can say "If you aren't 1st, you are last!" all you want. But, that won't change the fact that Brands simply doesn't have nearly what Sanderson has to work with, let alone Ryan......


Good points but you missed one very important FACT. PA has a lot more people and high school wrestlers than Iowa. There are 4x as many people in PA than Iowa! We are not going to succeed unless we draw talent in from all over the country.
The Brands and Iowa were victims of a negative marketing strategy by other programs and it limited Iowas's recruiting for a few years. I think that ship is turning around. Adapt and overcome! Hooorah!
 
That may be true, but HOW do you see Iowa truly becoming competitive with the current PSU and tOSU? Do you honestly believe that Iowa provides a coaching staff the same resources to be competitive, let alone pass them?

Because, let's be clear, they ARE the only programs currently ahead of Iowa. OkState is the only other school remotely close.

I get that you spent time their at their Apex and are fully vested. However, you seem like a bright guy and a realist. Just because you want Iowa still at the top, is it really fair to simply expect it to be so?
1. It's entirely realistic that Iowa can win another title in the near future. No doubt in my mind.
2. We have already made strides in the right direction.
3. The high priority in the current environment is recruiting the top studs. They come from all over the country; no state has a lock on great HS wrestlers.
4. By most accounts we were not good at recruiting top studs for most of the past decade. That's on us.
5. Spencer Lee exemplifies the importance of nabbing top studs, both for team points and for momentum to land more top studs.
6. A strong freestyle club is also critical. We're addressing that.
7. Money helps everything. We're addressing that.
8. Lowering our standards to make ourselves feel better is admitting defeat. That's not the answer.
 
I am not to sure I understand what the IOWA "fans" on this board are thinking?

Whom would you all consider the favorite to win it next year?

Let me add TarpHawk's #6 is HUGE!!! Getting the TOP Girls will also prove to be VERY wise!
 
Both MSU and Tarp make good points.

Cael could not beat Iowa and Brands when he coached at ISU. Ever. Making the move to PA changed everything.

PA is the top state for HS wrestling. Prime recruiting country. The massive funding of the NLWC (they have more than double the total of the next 10 WC's combined) no doubt helps. Most of that came from 1 sugar daddy. Some have wondered about creative financing. Btw, at the US Open this year, PSU and NLWC are sending 17 guys... far more than anyone else.

When Cael has a lineup of top 10 recruits at virtually every weight, and no one else does ... surprise... he usually wins a team title. Cael starts with emeralds, diamonds and rubies, while most everyone else got turquoise, amethyst, and garnet.

PSU had one year when they redshirted some of their studs, and guess what happened...PSU came in 6th. Cael doesn't generally turn good wrestlers into champions. More often, it is, Cael gets the very best kid in HS at a given weight, and the kid is often AA material as a true fr and high AA or champion after a RS year.


Not getting enough top studs from outside of Iowa has been a weakness for Iowa under Brands, so, as the others said, that's on us. But I think belatedly, they've gotten on board with that now. Not sure they'll ever match PSU in the number of top 10 guys, but if they get close, I have no doubt Brands and co can take Iowa back to the top.
 
so you are saying the our Athletic Department isn't as good, and our AD doesn't support wrestling as much of PSU? We just upgraded our facilities when Carver was renovated. Brands was happy at the time. I just don't buy those excuses. Cael has just out recruited Brands and is a good strategist in recruiting, team development, and individual match strategy. It doesn't hurt that his heel pick is low risk in this world of scramblers, although not all his wrestlers are adept at it. Brands was never a good recruiter and didn't put a priority on it--certainly getting better. Cael was knocking on doors and had a plan. Ask Bo Nickal how much contact he had from Iowa in high school? There is a big list. Ask Thomas Gilman how Brands recruited him. Brands missed the boat on wrestling clubs developing kids so much that they come in top notch. Brands has certainly come around, but I don't buy the excuses you list with the exception of recruiting territory (although doesn't Iowa have more starters from PA than PSU?), and I suspect PSU has bigger better sugar daddies, just like Iowa had in the Gable era.
Totally agree brands got into a big hole with recruiting philosophy. I think that’s changed but still in a hole...
 
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Good points but you missed one very important FACT. PA has a lot more people and high school wrestlers than Iowa. There are 4x as many people in PA than Iowa! We are not going to succeed unless we draw talent in from all over the country.
The Brands and Iowa were victims of a negative marketing strategy by other programs and it limited Iowas's recruiting for a few years. I think that ship is turning around. Adapt and overcome! Hooorah!
Don't let the population numbers fool you. There are about 10,000 PA wrestlers and about 7,000 IA wrestlers.
 
Don't let the population numbers fool you. There are about 10,000 PA wrestlers and about 7,000 IA wrestlers.

6406 and 9720 in 2017 to be exact according to NFHS
So there is 50% more HS wrestlers in PA than IA. I thought it was more than that.
 
Don't let the population numbers fool you. There are about 10,000 PA wrestlers and about 7,000 IA wrestlers.
Don't let 30% more wrestlers fool us? If you took your 10,000 guys and founded your own city in the state of Iowa you'd place 41st out of a total of 742 possible towns.

That stat I threw at you means Jack shit, but wrestling recruiting is a battle of attrition and when you can cherry pick out of an additional 30% or roughly 3,000 athletes, now that stat means everything. That's huge.

So don't fool yourself. The population increase is big, especially when they're already developing some of the best in the country. Iron sharpens Iron, right? You should be proud of that
 
That may be true, but HOW do you see Iowa truly becoming competitive with the current PSU and tOSU? Do you honestly believe that Iowa provides a coaching staff the same resources to be competitive, let alone pass them?

Because, let's be clear, they ARE the only programs currently ahead of Iowa. OkState is the only other school remotely close.

I get that you spent time their at their Apex and are fully vested. However, you seem like a bright guy and a realist. Just because you want Iowa still at the top, is it really fair to simply expect it to be so?
No, Iowa should just lay by their dish and say the hell with it. All those obstacles in the way, why bother..........
 
No, Iowa should just lay by their dish and say the hell with it. All those obstacles in the way, why bother..........

With all due respect, I don't think MSU is advocating just laying down. He's just pointing out that Brands is not lacking in anything.... except grabbing top 10 elite recruits.

So that is where Iowa needs to focus. Give Brands a Spencer Lee and, lo and behold... a potential 4 timer. Of course much of that credit goes to Lee. Just like much of Taylor, Retherford, Nolf, Nickal, Hall's etc. success comes from their own special talent, not some magical Cael fairy dust.

So given that, how can Iowa catch up getting top 10 guys from around the country? That is the $64K question. Greater outreach by Brands himself and a charm offensive by all the coaches would be a good place to start. A great ambassador like Lee helps. Getting the new wrestling facility and HWC well funded is important. If the ncaa is looking the other way on WC's creative finances to help current collegiate athletes with camp stipends and deferred income, then explore that too. The playing field needs to be level for the good of the sport.

I think Iowa is moving forward in most all these areas. Belatedly, but better late than never.

Brands has the coaching chops, and given support in the above areas, Iowa should be challenging for a title in the next year or two. Any talk of firing Brands is idiotic, imho.
 
I get what you are saying, but it should NOT. Penn State is LITERALLY a "Perfect Storm".

1.) You had the biggest name, possibly ever, in DI Wrestling come to the #1 hot bed state for High School wrestling, in Pennsylvania.
2.)The team he takes over in Pennsylvania, PSU, has quite possibly the most infuential, powerful, nationally recognized Athletic Department there is(this is evidenced by how quickly they rebounded from a scandal that would have permanently crippled most Universities).
3.)That AD is fully supporting the wrestling program.
4.)Their RTC is off the charts with funding that dwarfs every other RTC.
5.)Their Facility is as good as any.

Right now, there simply IS NOT a combination of all the above that could consistently compete with PSU. Right now, tOSU is the closest because they match up better than any other school from 2-5. But, even a coach(and staff) like Sanderson(s), would not fully get to the level PSU is currently at with tOSU.

You can say "If you aren't 1st, you are last!" all you want. But, that won't change the fact that Brands simply doesn't have nearly what Sanderson has to work with, let alone Ryan......
The thing about this logic is you can apply it to other places and make the same argument.

Iowa is much better than Missouri in most of those 5 categories. So, you can make the same claim that Brian Smith simply doesn’t have what Brands has to work with. Yet they are consistently very good.

How about Va Tech during the Dresser era? NC State? These teams are consistently good, and some have far, far less of the power, resources, and support than Brands has at Iowa.

So, what does that mean if one of those coaches had the same resources to work with as Iowa?
 
Don't let 30% more wrestlers fool us? If you took your 10,000 guys and founded your own city in the state of Iowa you'd place 41st out of a total of 742 possible towns.

That stat I threw at you means Jack shit, but wrestling recruiting is a battle of attrition and when you can cherry pick out of an additional 30% or roughly 3,000 athletes, now that stat means everything. That's huge.

So don't fool yourself. The population increase is big, especially when they're already developing some of the best in the country. Iron sharpens Iron, right? You should be proud of that
I'm not sure that shear population does mean everything. California's participation is more than 25,000, 2.5x PA. Illinois is at 1.5x PA. Are they a great wrestling states? Sure, but they're not producing at rates like PA is.
 
The thing about this logic is you can apply it to other places and make the same argument.

Iowa is much better than Missouri in most of those 5 categories. So, you can make the same claim that Brian Smith simply doesn’t have what Brands has to work with. Yet they are consistently very good.

How about Va Tech during the Dresser era? NC State? These teams are consistently good, and some have far, far less of the power, resources, and support than Brands has at Iowa.

So, what does that mean if one of those coaches had the same resources to work with as Iowa?

It means you can rationalize that the only reason the Mizzous, VaTechs, and NC States haven't placed higher than Iowa since 2011 is that Iowa has benefited from a Perfect Storm of having a bigger "name" coach, more powerful athletic department, more supportive AD, better RTC, and an equivalent or better facility. Well, except for VaTech in 2016, which somehow overcame that Perfect Storm with one of its own.

Lots of Perfect Storms flying around and cheating other teams out of championships and 2nd-4th finishes. To which I strenuously object, of course.
 
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Can I just add how unfair it was to the rest of D1 wrestling that Iowa was permitted to ride the Perfect Storm of having Dan Gable as coach during the 1970s, 80s, and 90s?
 
I NEVER said Iowa shouldn't still win some championships. I simply pointed out that Brands is still doing a VERY GOOD job at Iowa and that it is completely unfair to think Iowa should be held to the same standard they were under Gable. Times have changed and 2 sleeping giants are fully awake.

The above doesn't mean Iowa can't be competitive with the above and win some here and there. I just think tOSU and PSU have some resources fully available that Iowa simply can't match at this time.

Here is looking at it STRAIGHT FORWARD:

1.) Sanderson(and his staff) is the best DI coach(es) when you put all the key factors together(organization, recruitment, fund raising, marketing, development, etc.). He then has all the factors I listed above regarding Penn State Admin and RTC funding/support. They are blowing EVERYONE away because they are SOOO far ahead of everyone in nearly EVERY category.

2.)In regards to tOSU, I would NOT categorize Ryan and staff as any better than Brands and Co. However, they are definitely comparable and, again, their resources are much more comparable to PSU than Iowa's.

The above is hard for Iowa to overcome and even Gable himself would have a hard time at Iowa with the current landscape. I am not saying you should just be satisfied with top 5's. Wanting Titles is completely fair. It is just the "1st or last" mentality is way off the mark. Unless a scandal hits PSU or tOSU wrestling directly. They are here for the foreseeable future. Expecting Iowa to simply surpass them and supplant them as the consistent #1 is pure folly......
 
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Can I just add how unfair it was to the rest of D1 wrestling that Iowa was permitted to ride the Perfect Storm of having Dan Gable as coach during the 1970s, 80s, and 90s?

Did I ever say it was remotely unfair. A "Perfect Storm" in NO WAY implies that. Hell, I give Sanderson major credit for jumping at the opportunity. He knew what PSU was capable of and made it happen. In no way is that unfair. Putting the biggest name and proven best coach at the place with the highest ceiling made perfect sense and now both Sanderson and PSU are reaping the benefits.

This, at least from my perspective, was never really about PSU. It was about unfair expectations from Brands and Iowa. I truly believe the guy is doing a GREAT job keeping Iowa near the top and is still 100% driven to do whatever he can to get them back to the top. I just pointed out the obstacles that I think many here either ignore or were not aware of.

Remember, I have been saying for some time that I think Iowa would win at least 1 during Lee's time, and was leaning towards 2. Also, I have been pretty vocal for some time that I thought 2019-2020 would be that 1st year.

Finally, catching a team that has been averaging 121+ points over the past 9 years is an incredibly tall task. It isn't so much about Iowa not being good as it is about PSU just being that fricking great!
 
No, Iowa should just lay by their dish and say the hell with it. All those obstacles in the way, why bother..........

Not what I am saying at all. Obstacles are what separates the best from the rest. My point was that I believe Brands has done as well, going up against these obstacles, as anyone could rightly expect. I am also not calling for complacency. Just because I think he has done well, doesn't mean I don't think he should still be pushing forward.

I like the momentum Iowa has going now. A Lee, Kemerer, Marinelli, DeSanto, Young and Warner nucleus makes for a great chance at a multi-year run. Throw in guys like Cass, Murin and Brands and you have 9 guys that can contribute a lot for quite some time. On top of that you still have Lugo and Wilcke who both should contend for podium finishes next season.

Next year will be the strongest team Iowa has had since the 08-10 run. How they do next season will weigh heavily on how I judge Brands moving forward.
 
Not what I am saying at all. Obstacles are what separates the best from the rest. My point was that I believe Brands has done as well, going up against these obstacles, as anyone could rightly expect. I am also not calling for complacency. Just because I think he has done well, doesn't mean I don't think he should still be pushing forward.

I like the momentum Iowa has going now. A Lee, Kemerer, Marinelli, DeSanto, Young and Warner nucleus makes for a great chance at a multi-year run. Throw in guys like Cass, Murin and Brands and you have 9 guys that can contribute a lot for quite some time. On top of that you still have Lugo and Wilcke who both should contend for podium finishes next season.

Next year will be the strongest team Iowa has had since the 08-10 run. How they do next season will weigh heavily on how I judge Brands moving forward.
I disagree on Iowa doing as well as one could expect over this timeframe. It's pretty clear Brands dropped the ball for several years, and had to play catch-up, and fell further behind competing for Championships in the process. That's squarely on him.

But IMO Iowa had the resources to be competitive for those Championships all along. Not having to win all or most of them, just be in the picture on Saturday night. That hasn't happened.

Yep, we are far better off now than we have been in quite some time, so hopefully the future remains bright. I just don't think consistent Top 5 finishes is the expectation. This isn't Slippery Rock.
 
I am not a big "lets make predictions" but more of a "sit and watch guy and give credit where it is due" type of guy. One of the reasons Gable was so successful was because he was a fanatic and an innovator. He brought something new to the sport. I think Cael is doing that also.

I think the Brands are using an old formula that was successful and trying to reproduce the results. They have done amazing things because being a top 5 team year after years is insanely difficult. But the guys who make history do not copy someone else's formula. They make their own and other people copy them. JMHO
 
Can I just add how unfair it was to the rest of D1 wrestling that Iowa was permitted to ride the Perfect Storm of having Dan Gable as coach during the 1970s, 80s, and 90s?
Don't forget though that Iowa was victim of a negative marketing strategy by other programs and it limited Iowas's recruiting for a few years. That's just not fair! :D:D:D
 
I wonder how much (if at all) different things would feel if we would have been able to capitalize in 2015 and take another team title, even though that year kinda feels like it has an asterisk.

I really hope Iowa will be the ones to stop PSUs run, seeing another team do it (when PSU isn't RS a bunch of guys) would sting pretty bad.
 
Comparing 11 year NCAA:

JRob 1997-2006.............................3,2,2,3,1,1,2,8,5,2,1.............2.7 Mean

Gable/Zalesky 1997-2006.............1,1,1,1,1,2,4,8,2,7,4.............2.9 Mean

Brands 2007-2017..........................8,1,1,1,3,3,4,4,2,5,4.............3.3 Mean
 
Don't let the population numbers fool you. There are about 10,000 PA wrestlers and about 7,000 IA wrestlers.
I don't think it is a wrestling numbers thing I think it is a Club or prep school thing. By far more prep schools and wrestling clubs out east. Iowa is coming around in that respect with the Seabolt Academy and EIWC and such.
 
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Comparing 11 year NCAA:

JRob 1997-2006.............................3,2,2,3,1,1,2,8,5,2,1.............2.7 Mean

Gable/Zalesky 1997-2006.............1,1,1,1,1,2,4,8,2,7,4.............2.9 Mean

Brands 2007-2017..........................8,1,1,1,3,3,4,4,2,5,4.............3.3 Mean

That graphic actually helps Brands. The 8th place shows the status of Iowa and what he inherited from Zalesky. His 10 year average after that drops to 2.6. Also, JRob definitely deserves props. What he did at Minnesota puts him on a very short list of Head Coaches.
 
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"The playing field needs to be level for the good of the sport"

I don't recall hearing this argument much when Gable had Iowa dominating.
 
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