When truly grading Iowa under Brands, numbers don't lie

[armbartilt]

Nice attempt at Public relations post. Don't want those other P$U recruits knowing LOL. Might be underpaid!

It is only "nonsense" to those who don't want the information in the public domain. I have posted it before and will do so again. I know. I have first hand knowledge. Top recruits on P$U team have asked for $ from other D1 schools to be paid to family but were denied.

Your comments are straight from the cheaters handbook ---deny, deny, deny, hurl accusations, act hurt, demand an apology!

Paying for recruits----It may be legal but it sure is scummy.

Arguing with P$U fans like you is much like playing chess with a pigeon. The P$U/pigeon struts around making nonsensical moves .....and then craps on the board.... as if they won. Hence I really don't care what you say. Go crap on your own board. So why are you on an Iowa board so much if you are not a fan??? Troll much pigeon?

 

[rassling]

Nice attempt at Public relations post. Don't want those other P$U recruits knowing LOL. Might be underpaid!

It is only "nonsense" to those who don't want the information in the public domain. I have posted it before and will do so again. I know. I have first hand knowledge. Top recruits on P$U team have asked for $ from other D1 schools to be paid to family but were denied.

Your comments are straight from the cheaters handbook ---deny, deny, deny, hurl accusations, act hurt, demand an apology!

Paying for recruits----It may be legal but it sure is scummy.

Arguing with P$U fans like you is much like playing chess with a pigeon. The P$U/pigeon struts around making nonsensical moves .....and then craps on the board.... as if they won. Hence I really don't care what you say. Go crap on your own board. So why are you on an Iowa board so much if you are not a fan??? Troll much pigeon?

This has to be another account by Ironbrain.

 

[dhm47]

I figured these in another thread, but think they belong under a much better related title. For all those that have been vocal about Brands "not getting it done", Here is the tale of the tape:


Just so you understand NO TEAM has finished top 5 every season since 2008, EXCEPT Iowa. Even PSU took 6th in 2015.

2008: 1st-117.5 won by 38.5
2009: 1st-96.5 won by 4.5
2010: 1st-134.5 won by 44.5
2011: 3rd-86.5 lost by 21 to PSU and 7 to Cornell. Finished 16.5 ahead of 4th place OKState tOSU(29th-20.5)
2012: 3rd-107.5 lost by 35.5 to PSU and 10 to Minnesota. Finished 5 ahead of #4 Cornell(3 champs). tOSU(5th-68.5) OkState(6th-66)
2013: 4th-73 lost by 50.5 to PSU, 46.5 to OkState and 37.5 to Minn. Beat #5 Cornell by 8. tOSU(6th-59.5)
2014: 4th-78.5 lost by 31 to PSU, 25.5 to Minn and 18 to OkState. Beat #5 Edinboro by 16.5. tOSU(6th-57)
2015: 2nd-84 lost by 18 to tOSU. Beat #3 Edinboro by 8.5. OkState (7th-65) PSU (6th-67.5)
2016: 5th-81 lost by 42 to PSU, 16.5 to OkState, 5 to tOSU and 1 to VTech. Beat #6 Mizz by 6.5.
2017: 4th-97 lost by 49.5 to PSU, 13 to tOSU and 6 to OkState. Beat #5 Mizz by 10.5.
2018: 3rd-97 lost by 44.5 to PSU and 37.5 to tOSU. Beat #4 Michigan by 17. OkState (t-13 37.5)
2019: 4th-73 lost by 61.5 to PSU, 20.5 to tOSU and 8 to OkState. Beat #5 Michigan by 13.5

So, even IF you start in 2011, AFTER their 3 Titles, they still average a higher placement and more points than every team but PSU. Even if you go strictly by who places higher, they are 4-5 against tOSU and OkState, but are again ahead of every other team by a very large margin.

With that said, PSU is blowing them away, but they are blowing EVERYONE away.

Team placement and average points scored from 2011-2019:

PSU: 14/9= 1.556 place and 121.833
Iowa: 32/9= 3.556 place and 86.389
OkState: 43/9= 4.778 place and 84.833
tOSU: 56/9=6.222 place and 81.278

After them, no one is close.

Okay, first of all great analytics. Next, I haven't read any responses. However who cares who comes in the top 5? Anything but first, especially form the Hawks is a disappointment. Not the end of the world, but a disappointment. As Tom has stated, "we have no rebuilding years". So let's raise our expectations, hey Zain-Train and Nolf got beat today. PSU guys can be beat, and we're the guys that can get it done.

 

[wasdt21]

was always 100 behind brands until he went after downey, now maybe 90%, but when skon , evans telford, moore, jeva and e lofthouse were coming in you can't tell me that's bad recruiting. I would say none of those guys reached the level they should have and that has to be on the coaches to some extent.

 

[ff141]

was always 100 behind brands until he went after downey, now maybe 90%, but when skon , evans telford, moore, jeva and e lofthouse were coming in you can't tell me that's bad recruiting. I would say none of those guys reached the level they should have and that has to be on the coaches to some extent.

I think this was the big mistake recruiting wise. Everybody had high expectations for this class but they weren’t overly athletic and evans the highest rated recruit didn’t live up to expectations. I don’t think they didn’t get coached up they just weren’t that good.

 

[IAChief32]

was always 100 behind brands until he went after downey, now maybe 90%, but when skon , evans telford, moore, jeva and e lofthouse were coming in you can't tell me that's bad recruiting. I would say none of those guys reached the level they should have and that has to be on the coaches to some extent.

Sure...but I'd argue that 2010 was not a very good year.

1. Stieber...check, 4 timer
2. Andrew Alton
3. Chris Villalonga
4. Mike Evans
5. Marshall Peppleman
6. Lee Munster
7. Jackson Morse
8. Dylan Alton
9. Tyler Beckwith
10. Josh Kindig
11. Nick Moore
12. Jeva
13. Sulzer
14. McMullen
15. Dylan Ness
16. Ryak Finch
17. Keith Surber
18. Cagnina
19. Telford
20. N. Dardanes

Out of that group, Stieber, McMullan, Ness, and Telford had the best careers. The only other champs out of that class were Delgado and Gadsen neither of whom were in the top 50.

As for going after Downey, I was against it too...a lot of folks were. However, he was put on a short leash and he didn't end up wearing an Iowa singlet. No harm no foul. The guys in the room liked him and he worked hard while he was there and wasn't a distraction.

 

[TarpHawk]

Agreed. Poor word usage. I started with “to me” but shouldn’t have used “the fact” and instead continued with “I believe”.

But, there is some solid evidence. PSU averaging 121+ over the past 9 seasons WOULD make it historically difficult for anyone to hang with them, let alone consistently beat them. Even tOSU is averaging just under 114 the past 3 years and and 106 over the past 5. Also, the current recruiting landscape disparity between local Iowa recruits vs. Penn and Ohio. Then add in Gable’s outdated “right guy” recruiting method and the amount of 1 specialized sport, fully developed recruits. Contrast that with the # of top ten recruits both schools have consistently landed with nearly all being at least 3x AA’s with a crazy amount of Finalists and Champs.

Again, none of that means Gable wouldn’t be successful and I do think he would have Iowa solidly above Brands. It’s just that the current PSU and tOSU teams are performing at a level that even Gable’s best 9, back when he was so far ahead of every other team, would be hard pressed to consistently win.

I'm sorry to keep disagreeing with you, MSU158, but...

1. I disagree with your opinion that PSU averaging 121 points over the past 9 seasons would make it difficult for anyone to hang with them.

Top 10 highest NCAA team scores:
1. 170 - Iowa - 1997
2. 158 - Iowa - 1986
3. 157 - Iowa - 1991
4. 155 - Iowa - 1983
5. 153 - Okla St - 2005
6. 149 - Iowa - 1992
7. 146.5 - PSU - 2017
8. 145.25 - Iowa - 1985
9T. 143 - PSU - 2018
9T. 143 - Okla St - 2003

2. I disagree with your opinion that Gable had an "outdated 'right guy' recruiting method." Gable recruited personalities as disparate as Randy Lewis, Royce Alger, Brad Penrith, Joe Williams, Barry Davis, the Brands brothers, and the Steiner brothers. The only common element among Gable's recruits is that they were consistently NCAA champion caliber by their sophomore (or even freshman) year. Cael has replicated that. Iowa may indeed suffer from an outdated recruiting strategy, but not under Gable.

There is nothing stopping Iowa from scoring 150+ points, but we've failed to put enough studs in the barn to consistently score 100. We know it's possible because (a) Gable did it; (b) Cael figured out how to do it; (c) Tom Ryan figured out how to do it; (d) Spencer Lee is proof that there's not a magnetic force field around Iowa City that precludes studs from coming here.

 

[rossel 33]

With all due respect Spencer is winning four national.titles anywhere regardless of coach

Spencer may win 4 titles and I hope he does. But a lot can happen. Gotta win 3 first.

And with all due respect, Taylor, Ruth, Retherford, Nolf, Nickal, Joseph, Hall, Suriano, Megaludis and all the other top 10 guys that Cael has had were going to win many national titles/high AA finishes had they gone to tOSU, Iowa, Okla St, Cornell or any other top d1 wrestling school.

If you don't want to credit Brands with Spencer's success so far, fine.

Shouldn't you be consistent though, and admit that Cael recruits top tier studs, but beyond that, doesn't really have to do much.

 

[nearfall2]

I'm sorry to keep disagreeing with you, MSU158, but...

1. I disagree with your opinion that PSU averaging 121 points over the past 9 seasons would make it difficult for anyone to hang with them.

Top 10 highest NCAA team scores:
1. 170 - Iowa - 1997
2. 158 - Iowa - 1986
3. 157 - Iowa - 1991
4. 155 - Iowa - 1983
5. 153 - Okla St - 2005
6. 149 - Iowa - 1992
7. 146.5 - PSU - 2017
8. 145.25 - Iowa - 1985
9T. 143 - PSU - 2018
9T. 143 - Okla St - 2003

2. I disagree with your opinion that Gable had an "outdated 'right guy' recruiting method." Gable recruited personalities as disparate as Randy Lewis, Royce Alger, Brad Penrith, Joe Williams, Barry Davis, the Brands brothers, and the Steiner brothers. The only common element among Gable's recruits is that they were consistently NCAA champion caliber by their sophomore (or even freshman) year. Cael has replicated that. Iowa may indeed suffer from an outdated recruiting strategy, but not under Gable.

There is nothing stopping Iowa from scoring 150+ points, but we've failed to put enough studs in the barn to consistently score 100. We know it's possible because (a) Gable did it; (b) Cael figured out how to do it; (c) Tom Ryan figured out how to do it; (d) Spencer Lee is proof that there's not a magnetic force field around Iowa City that precludes studs from coming here.

To underscore your point, when scoring is normalized, Gable teams out scored PSU’s best team 8 times in 17 consecutive seasons (1981-1997). Cal Sandernuts would have to have teams that score more than the best team he has ever coached the next 8 years (+ his last 9=17) in a row to top Gable in scoring. That is assuming he could shuffle a team above a Gable team every year. Gable would do just fine in this era. He knew how to get the most out of people.

This is an excerpt from theopenmat (not a pro Iowa site)
The Top 200 Adjusted Team Scores in NCAA Division I Wrestling History
1 1983 Iowa 177.5
2 1992 Iowa 175
3 1997 Iowa 172
4 1991 Iowa 170.5
5 1986 Iowa 169
6 1985 Iowa 157
7 1981 Iowa 154.5
8 1969 Iowa State 154.5
9 1982 Iowa 150
10 2005 Oklahoma State 148
11 2017 Penn State 146.5
12 1995 Iowa 144.5
13 2018 Penn State 142.5
14 1984 Iowa 141

 

[Bones Malone]

Lots of good discussions. We should all be excited, not just because we will be competing for championships over the next few years but to see if we can build on the current momentum. Let's hope the staff can find ways to capitalize and keep the trend moving in a positive direction.

 

[24 so far]

I'm sorry to keep disagreeing with you, MSU158, but...

1. I disagree with your opinion that PSU averaging 121 points over the past 9 seasons would make it difficult for anyone to hang with them.

Top 10 highest NCAA team scores:
1. 170 - Iowa - 1997
2. 158 - Iowa - 1986
3. 157 - Iowa - 1991
4. 155 - Iowa - 1983
5. 153 - Okla St - 2005
6. 149 - Iowa - 1992
7. 146.5 - PSU - 2017
8. 145.25 - Iowa - 1985
9T. 143 - PSU - 2018
9T. 143 - Okla St - 2003

2. I disagree with your opinion that Gable had an "outdated 'right guy' recruiting method." Gable recruited personalities as disparate as Randy Lewis, Royce Alger, Brad Penrith, Joe Williams, Barry Davis, the Brands brothers, and the Steiner brothers. The only common element among Gable's recruits is that they were consistently NCAA champion caliber by their sophomore (or even freshman) year. Cael has replicated that. Iowa may indeed suffer from an outdated recruiting strategy, but not under Gable.

There is nothing stopping Iowa from scoring 150+ points, but we've failed to put enough studs in the barn to consistently score 100. We know it's possible because (a) Gable did it; (b) Cael figured out how to do it; (c) Tom Ryan figured out how to do it; (d) Spencer Lee is proof that there's not a magnetic force field around Iowa City that precludes studs from coming here.

Reading that partial list of former Iowa studs tells me one thing.............Iowa and The Dakota's need to get their act together and start sending those types to Iowa City again! (also factoring in Lincoln Mac of course....)

 

[MSU158]

I'm sorry to keep disagreeing with you, MSU158, but...

1. I disagree with your opinion that PSU averaging 121 points over the past 9 seasons would make it difficult for anyone to hang with them.

Top 10 highest NCAA team scores:
1. 170 - Iowa - 1997
2. 158 - Iowa - 1986
3. 157 - Iowa - 1991
4. 155 - Iowa - 1983
5. 153 - Okla St - 2005
6. 149 - Iowa - 1992
7. 146.5 - PSU - 2017
8. 145.25 - Iowa - 1985
9T. 143 - PSU - 2018
9T. 143 - Okla St - 2003

2. I disagree with your opinion that Gable had an "outdated 'right guy' recruiting method." Gable recruited personalities as disparate as Randy Lewis, Royce Alger, Brad Penrith, Joe Williams, Barry Davis, the Brands brothers, and the Steiner brothers. The only common element among Gable's recruits is that they were consistently NCAA champion caliber by their sophomore (or even freshman) year. Cael has replicated that. Iowa may indeed suffer from an outdated recruiting strategy, but not under Gable.

There is nothing stopping Iowa from scoring 150+ points, but we've failed to put enough studs in the barn to consistently score 100. We know it's possible because (a) Gable did it; (b) Cael figured out how to do it; (c) Tom Ryan figured out how to do it; (d) Spencer Lee is proof that there's not a magnetic force field around Iowa City that precludes studs from coming here.

Taking the best team scores in a 20 year span in no way changes my point. PSU is averaging that in a straight 9 year span which includes a season where they essentially punted. So, essentially you would need to average 121+ a season just to really have a chance to win half the time and that doesn’t even account for tOSU or even OkState. It wasn’t about their best years vs PSU. It was about the needed consistency to be competitive let alone consistently win. This is even more evident by how consistently PSU is getting 5 guys to the Finals.

Finally, I do think Gable is the best there has been and said that. I just think he would be challenged mightily to recruit at the level of Sanderson and even Ryan, while at Iowa. That isn’t a knock on Gable either. It is the national recognition that PSU and tOSU have as a whole, as well as the local recruit factor.

Also, he was quoted many times for recruiting the “right” guy vs. the best guy at the time and elaborated quite a bit on mindsets. That didn’t mean he was recruiting the same robot, but he wanted the drive and determination to be evident. Now, I think he could still identify what is needed as well as any. I just think he would have a much harder time landing them than he did back then.

Also, I expected you to disagree with me and appreciate it. Someone with the knowledge and intelligence you have makes for a good debate and a lot of good points get raised. Obviously, neither of us could really prove this hypothetical, but what PSU has created and even where tOSU is now, I have a really hard time seeing a 3rd team get consistently into that mix.

 

[Agoodnap]

To underscore your point, when scoring is normalized, Gable teams out scored PSU’s best team 8 times in 17 consecutive seasons (1981-1997). Cal Sandernuts would have to have teams that score more than the best team he has ever coached the next 8 years (+ his last 9=17) in a row to top Gable in scoring. That is assuming he could shuffle a team above a Gable team every year. Gable would do just fine in this era. He knew how to get the most out of people.

This is an excerpt from theopenmat (not a pro Iowa site)
The Top 200 Adjusted Team Scores in NCAA Division I Wrestling History
1 1983 Iowa 177.5
2 1992 Iowa 175
3 1997 Iowa 172
4 1991 Iowa 170.5
5 1986 Iowa 169
6 1985 Iowa 157
7 1981 Iowa 154.5
8 1969 Iowa State 154.5
9 1982 Iowa 150
10 2005 Oklahoma State 148
11 2017 Penn State 146.5
12 1995 Iowa 144.5
13 2018 Penn State 142.5
14 1984 Iowa 141

I wonder what Cael would do with 19.8 scholarships per year while every other team had 9.9?

 

[24 so far]

I wonder what Cael would do with 19.8 scholarships per year while every other team had 9.9?

You're seeing it right now. Of course you have to factor in the real scholarship versus the "wink, wink" variety scholarship.

 

[Agoodnap]

was always 100 behind brands until he went after downey, now maybe 90%, but when skon , evans telford, moore, jeva and e lofthouse were coming in you can't tell me that's bad recruiting. I would say none of those guys reached the level they should have and that has to be on the coaches to some extent.

I understand the Downey comment, but including Evans in the "here are the Brands good recruits" in a bit of a stretch.

For those that don't know, Evans literally sh*t in a lacrosse players helmet while at Cumberland Valley HS, which is what got him expelled and why he showed up at Blair Academy. This was common knowledge in PA District 3, yet the Brands took him anyway.

Why anyone would put a person like this in their locker room is beyond me. He never did lose the tough guy/bully attitude, which was constantly on display throughout his college career.

 

[24 so far]

I understand the Downey comment, but including Evans in the "here are the Brands good recruits" in a bit of a stretch.

For those that don't know, Evans literally sh*t in a lacrosse players helmet while at Cumberland Valley HS, which is what got him expelled and why he showed up at Blair Academy. This was common knowledge in PA District 3, yet the Brands took him anyway.

It's fertilizer, Iowa is Farm Country. A match made in Heaven.

 

[crablegs1]

I understand the Downey comment, but including Evans in the "here are the Brands good recruits" in a bit of a stretch.

For those that don't know, Evans literally sh*t in a lacrosse players helmet while at Cumberland Valley HS, which is what got him expelled and why he showed up at Blair Academy. This was common knowledge in PA District 3, yet the Brands took him anyway.

Why anyone would put a person like this in their locker room is beyond me. He never did lose the tough guy/bully attitude, which was constantly on display throughout his college career.

This seems like a high school prank to me. Man, cannot imagine how boring your adolescence must have been.

 

[24 so far]

Taking the best team scores in a 20 year span in no way changes my point. PSU is averaging that in a straight 9 year span which includes a season where they essentially punted. So, essentially you would need to average 121+ a season just to really have a chance to win half the time and that doesn’t even account for tOSU or even OkState. It wasn’t about their best years vs PSU. It was about the needed consistency to be competitive let alone consistently win. This is even more evident by how consistently PSU is getting 5 guys to the Finals.

Finally, I do think Gable is the best there has been and said that. I just think he would be challenged mightily to recruit at the level of Sanderson and even Ryan, while at Iowa. That isn’t a knock on Gable either. It is the national recognition that PSU and tOSU have as a whole, as well as the local recruit factor.

Also, he was quoted many times for recruiting the “right” guy vs. the best guy at the time and elaborated quite a bit on mindsets. That didn’t mean he was recruiting the same robot, but he wanted the drive and determination to be evident. Now, I think he could still identify what is needed as well as any. I just think he would have a much harder time landing them than he did back then.

Also, I expected you to disagree with me and appreciate it. Someone with the knowledge and intelligence you have makes for a good debate and a lot of good points get raised. Obviously, neither of us could really prove this hypothetical, but what PSU has created and even where tOSU is now, I have a really hard time seeing a 3rd team get consistently into that mix.

You're right about one thing, a lot off good points have been raised, the large majority of them by Mr. Tarpley.

 

[MSU158]

You're right about one thing, a lot off good points have been raised, the large majority of them by Mr. Tarpley.

I guess it is a good thing he has you on his side. Average your good points together and I LEAP back into the lead.

 

[nitlion6]

Nice attempt at Public relations post. Don't want those other P$U recruits knowing LOL. Might be underpaid!

It is only "nonsense" to those who don't want the information in the public domain. I have posted it before and will do so again. I know. I have first hand knowledge. Top recruits on P$U team have asked for $ from other D1 schools to be paid to family but were denied.

Your comments are straight from the cheaters handbook ---deny, deny, deny, hurl accusations, act hurt, demand an apology!

Paying for recruits----It may be legal but it sure is scummy.

Arguing with P$U fans like you is much like playing chess with a pigeon. The P$U/pigeon struts around making nonsensical moves .....and then craps on the board.... as if they won. Hence I really don't care what you say. Go crap on your own board. So why are you on an Iowa board so much if you are not a fan??? Troll much pigeon?

As I assumed. Nonsense and silliness seem to be the bar you can obtain. No big deal. You contribute to the point your abilities allow. Good for you, you keep at it.

 

[IAChief32]

For those that don't know, Evans literally sh*t in a lacrosse players helmet while at Cumberland Valley HS, which is what got him expelled and why he showed up at Blair Academy. This was common knowledge in PA District 3, yet the Brands took him anyway.

You didn’t grow up in the 70s or 80s did you? We once threw a guy out of the locker room who was wearing snakeskin looking underwear/Speedos...this right in the area where all the cheerleaders and band kids were forming up. He pounded on the door...but to his credit, turned around and strolled past all of them with his chest out and we let him in through the other door. Principal saw this and was laughing his ass off.

 

[Agoodnap]

You didn’t grow up in the 70s or 80s did you? We once threw a guy out of the locker room who was wearing snakeskin looking underwear/Speedos...this right in the area where all the cheerleaders and band kids were forming up. He pounded on the door...but to his credit, turned around and strolled past all of them with his chest out and we let him in through the other door. Principal saw this and was laughing his ass off.

You see, your story is actually funny and things like that were just pranks. Sh*tting in someone's helmet is NOT funny. I did grow up in 70's and my buddies and I would have kicked the living sh*t out of Evans, or anyone else who sh*t in someone's helmet. Yes, pun intended.

If someone had done that they would have been shunned from virtually every group at school.

 

[jammenz]

This is an excerpt from theopenmat (not a pro Iowa site)

You mean there is such a thing as a "pro Iowa site"?

 

[nearfall2]

You mean there is such a thing as a "pro Iowa site"?

Well, this one used to be, but point well taken.

 

[rossel 33]

You mean there is such a thing as a "pro Iowa site"?

This one tries, but sometimes is infiltrated by trolls.

 

[nitlion6]

Taking the best team scores in a 20 year span in no way changes my point. PSU is averaging that in a straight 9 year span which includes a season where they essentially punted. So, essentially you would need to average 121+ a season just to really have a chance to win half the time and that doesn’t even account for tOSU or even OkState. It wasn’t about their best years vs PSU. It was about the needed consistency to be competitive let alone consistently win. This is even more evident by how consistently PSU is getting 5 guys to the Finals.

Finally, I do think Gable is the best there has been and said that. I just think he would be challenged mightily to recruit at the level of Sanderson and even Ryan, while at Iowa. That isn’t a knock on Gable either. It is the national recognition that PSU and tOSU have as a whole, as well as the local recruit factor.

Also, he was quoted many times for recruiting the “right” guy vs. the best guy at the time and elaborated quite a bit on mindsets. That didn’t mean he was recruiting the same robot, but he wanted the drive and determination to be evident. Now, I think he could still identify what is needed as well as any. I just think he would have a much harder time landing them than he did back then.

Also, I expected you to disagree with me and appreciate it. Someone with the knowledge and intelligence you have makes for a good debate and a lot of good points get raised. Obviously, neither of us could really prove this hypothetical, but what PSU has created and even where tOSU is now, I have a really hard time seeing a 3rd team get consistently into that mix.

As Gable had a mindset he preferred, Cael has specific intangibles he wants to see in a recruit.
Neither man reached their level of success with luck, or sheer determination. They both had definite ideas of how to get it done and both set about getting it done.

 

[24 so far]

I guess it is a good thing he has you on his side. Average your good points together and I LEAP back into the lead.

I'm on his side because he has common sense, something you're lacking, some might say severly.

 

[MSU158]

I'm on his side because he has common sense, something you're lacking, some might say severly.

Yet another solid, salient point made by the Tarp/23 tandem. How lucky he is to have you on his side. Keep up the good work!

 

[rossel 33]

As Gable had a mindset he preferred, Cael has specific intangibles he wants to see in a recruit.
Neither man reached their level of success with luck, or sheer determination. They both had definite ideas of how to get it done and both set about getting it done.

Yes, Cael looks for specific intangibles ... like World Jr FS medalists, World Cadet FS medalists, top 10 p4p, best in HS weight class... things like that.

 

[IAChief32]

Yes, Cael looks for specific intangibles ... like World Jr FS medalists, World Cadet FS medalists, top 10 p4p, best in HS weight class... things like that.

Plus...they really have to love wrestling.

 

[24 so far]

Yet another solid, salient point made by the Tarp/23 tandem. How lucky he is to have you on his side. Keep up the good work!

I intend to.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Plus...they really have to love wrestling.

You don't realize how close you are. My son wrestled for the father of a kid recruited by PSU, but he AAed for Lehigh. He said Cael's interview was unlike any other with regards to love of the sport, looking for signs of potential burnout. Make fun of it all you want, at your own team's peril.

 

[artradley]

But, it wouldn't work that way. Remove PSU wrestlers from those brackets and things most likely go quite differently at several weights.

Just one season of examples: Remove Matt Brown from the 2015 semis and there is a strong possibility Evans makes the Finals and maybe even wins it all. Brooks doesn't lose to Stauffer because McCutcheon wouldn't have upset him in the 2nd round. Burak wouldn't have lost to McIntosh to make the consi semis. Gilman gets bonus pts in the 2nd round instead of a close win over Conaway.....

Simply put, without PSU, those teams don't automatically evenly step up one placement.

Conversely, Iowa could have done worse. Since it’s impossible to predict, the simplest and most defensible is to simply bump every team one spot.

 

[MVPFAN]

Yes, Cael looks for specific intangibles ... like World Jr FS medalists, World Cadet FS medalists, top 10 p4p, best in HS weight class... things like that.

You forgot guys with rich Uncles and who can hang out taking grey shirts.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

You forgot guys with rich Uncles and who can hang out taking grey shirts.

And, of course, the obligatory ROTC kid.

 

[TarpHawk]

Taking the best team scores in a 20 year span in no way changes my point. PSU is averaging that in a straight 9 year span which includes a season where they essentially punted. So, essentially you would need to average 121+ a season just to really have a chance to win half the time and that doesn’t even account for tOSU or even OkState. It wasn’t about their best years vs PSU. It was about the needed consistency to be competitive let alone consistently win. This is even more evident by how consistently PSU is getting 5 guys to the Finals.

Finally, I do think Gable is the best there has been and said that. I just think he would be challenged mightily to recruit at the level of Sanderson and even Ryan, while at Iowa. That isn’t a knock on Gable either. It is the national recognition that PSU and tOSU have as a whole, as well as the local recruit factor.

Also, he was quoted many times for recruiting the “right” guy vs. the best guy at the time and elaborated quite a bit on mindsets. That didn’t mean he was recruiting the same robot, but he wanted the drive and determination to be evident. Now, I think he could still identify what is needed as well as any. I just think he would have a much harder time landing them than he did back then.

Also, I expected you to disagree with me and appreciate it. Someone with the knowledge and intelligence you have makes for a good debate and a lot of good points get raised. Obviously, neither of us could really prove this hypothetical, but what PSU has created and even where tOSU is now, I have a really hard time seeing a 3rd team get consistently into that mix.

Fair enough. Constructive debate is healthy. I want Iowa to win NCAA titles, I believe we have the tools to do so, and I will push back against arguments for lowering our expectations.

 

[nitlion6]

You're seeing it right now. Of course you have to factor in the real scholarship versus the "wink, wink" variety scholarship.

Whine and complain. Wink, wink.

 

[nitlion6]

Yes, Cael looks for specific intangibles ... like World Jr FS medalists, World Cadet FS medalists, top 10 p4p, best in HS weight class... things like that.

Whatever they are, they are getting PSU championships and leaving most others whining and sobbing. So far it seems to be working out just fine.

 

[Hawkstud1982]

Take away the first three years. We had the benefit of two recruiting classes and the first year was a team zalesky set up. After that we probably rank 3 to 4. That's were we finish every year.
I am however optimistic that our recruiting has finally ampted up and we should start doing better from now on.

 

[MSeil]

Lots o closet Hawkeye fans here. Keep posting we know you love the Hawks!