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Who is the next Donald Trump?

So, like I said, we believe a lot of the same things, but we just don't come to the same conclusions.

I've said it before, I'm old enough to remember when the Republicans hated Russia, and Democrats hated the FBI and CIA. It's as crazy to me to see progressives' faith in the FBI and intelligence communities all of a sudden, once it's turned on Trump.

Everybody's just trying to figure out how to win.
The world has changed immensely over the last 30 years, so its not a surprise that political parties should too. As you said, Trump is willing to fight just as dirty as the other side, and while exhausting, its also necessary.
 
Could you explain your logic with respect to your Clinton comparison? Just because Republicans had worries about Clinton that went unfounded why does it necessitate that Democrats concerns about Trump must also be unfounded?

Is there no room for context, nuances, any conceivable differences that make the calculation - different - rather than an easy to dismiss equivalence?

I don't think that there's that much of a difference actually.

I do think that, and you could not conceive how crazy/painful this is for me to say, Clinton was a less problematic scoundrel because he was much, much smarter, and always had finely tuned sense of political self-interest. Trump doesn't have that, so there's always the chance that he does something really absurd, like nuke somebody or something.

But no, I don't think the calculus is all that different. And I don't think the worries of Republicans were necessarily at all unfounded. I think it's fairly easy to draw a pretty straight line from Clinton to Trump.

The throwing over of the idea of personal character and truthfulness, and to some extent military service, as prerequisites to the highest office in the land absolutely makes Trump possible. Politicians have always lied, but Clinton was the first president (and I'm talking well before impeachment) for whom we dropped all pretense that they weren't EXPECTED to lie, and that we ACCEPTED that they lie, and that there was no consequence from their own side for being caught in a lie.

Trump is absolutely possible because of Clinton. And maybe most Republicans are reveling in it now. Not me.

Winning is a hell of a drug.
 
And you should know. Takes one to know one.
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I don't think the Trump boys stand a chance. I expect they'll just become political grifters exploiting the most nutty of Trump's followers or the alt-right.

Ivanka I think actually could have a future, if she isn't totally disabled by scandal and weirdness around her husband.

I think she's actually smart (a lot smarter than Trump or Don Jr.) and I thought it was obvious she was frequently the smartest person in the room back when I watched the apprentice. I think she could potentially leverage her name into some kind of career as a moderate Republican. I don't think its a given, but I think it's possible.

I think Ivanka has a good chance of running in 2028. She seems very clearly to be Trump's favorit
So, like I said, we believe a lot of the same things, but we just don't come to the same conclusions.

I've said it before, I'm old enough to remember when the Republicans hated Russia, and Democrats hated the FBI and CIA. It's as crazy to me to see progressives' faith in the FBI and intelligence communities all of a sudden, once it's turned on Trump.

Everybody's just trying to figure out how to win.

When did the Dems hate the FBI? When Hoover ran it? I don't blame them in that case, Hoover was extremely corrupt.
 
It's happened with virtually everything in my mind...some to the good (judges, tax cuts) and some to the bad (trade, spending) if you're a traditional Republican. I don't think he has virtually any core beliefs, beyond a vague anti-interventionist bent. I don't even think he has any real core beliefs on immigration, other than an old man's vague discomfort with brown people. I think he'd gladly embrace a path to citizenship and permanent DACA if he could get something he could reasonably claim as a wall and do a victory lap.
Trump was offered a much easier deal only to turn it down after fox told him to.
 
This talk about not leaving is so silly, just stupid fear mongering. If you're old enough, people said the same thing about Clinton. There were conspiracies about Hillary running after him, with him as VP, and when she won, she would resign a day later for him to finish her term, because technically you can't serve more than two consecutive terms.

For all the hand wringing about what Trump's loyalty from Republicans means about the Republican party, it's really, very very simple. They're getting more out of him that a traditional Republican likes than things that they don't, and that they'd get from the alternative.

Republicans have been quite outspoken about disagreeing with him on foreign policy moves and trade and many of his worst statements. But they aren't about to throw a guy over that delivers them 78% of what they like in favor of a Democrat that delivers 0%.

And all the handwringing about Trump ending the Republic, of assuming dictatorial powers, etc...most Republicans see that for what it is, social media nonsense.
Who said anything about a democrat? They would have had Pence.
 
If we still have an election in 2028 it will likely include someone just like Trump if not one of his children.
Are you okay, bro? Take a week off social media and cable news, get some fresh air, strike up a conversation with someone, and be well!
 
Are you okay, bro? Take a week off social media and cable news, get some fresh air, strike up a conversation with someone, and be well!

Presuming all will be well when the systems are crumbling around you seems ridiculous.

I sincerely hope that my concerns are unjustified, but democracy dies when the people tasked with overseeing another branch decide to just let that branch do whatever they want. It's happened before it can happen again.
 
Oh, I've been without a party for some time.

But I have no idea what you mean by "throw over" Trump. Trump is popular, he delivers mostly what Republicans want, and nobody but social media hacks actually believe he's an existential danger to the republic. For most Republicans, he's actually done about 85% less damage than they feared he might.
You brought up the term 'throw over'--

"Republicans have been quite outspoken about disagreeing with him on foreign policy moves and trade and many of his worst statements. But they aren't about to throw a guy over that delivers them 78% of what they like in favor of a Democrat that delivers 0%."

My question is this-- which R that wants to run for president is willing to morph into the Trump personality-- to become a reality show, to become Hannity and Rush?

because that is who the base wants to vote for. Quit trying to talk policy or rationale to a bunch of voters who want a personality-- an American tough guy. (And no, i think trump is not tough at all but for some reason these voters do think that).

Matt Gaetz. Nunes. Jim Jordan? Which a-hole will be the R nominee in 2024?
 
Who said anything about a democrat? They would have had Pence.

They would have a Democrat, because Trump is quite popular with Republicans, and they're not going to turn out in the same numbers for Pence.
You brought up the term 'throw over'--

"Republicans have been quite outspoken about disagreeing with him on foreign policy moves and trade and many of his worst statements. But they aren't about to throw a guy over that delivers them 78% of what they like in favor of a Democrat that delivers 0%."

My question is this-- which R that wants to run for president is willing to morph into the Trump personality-- to become a reality show, to become Hannity and Rush?

because that is who the base wants to vote for. Quit trying to talk policy or rationale to a bunch of voters who want a personality-- an American tough guy. (And no, i think trump is not tough at all but for some reason these voters do think that).

Matt Gaetz. Nunes. Jim Jordan? Which a-hole will be the R nominee in 2024?

As I said, I don't think anyone will have success or result morphing into Trump's personality. He had 30 years of a head start as his own brand. It's not to be duplicated, unless, I don't know maybe Chuck Norris or Kid Rock try to do it.

I think what will need to be taken from Trump is talking to everyday people and telling them they are on their side and care about what they do, and that they'll fight, not roll over like pansies. I don't think it needs to be the same personality or classlessness, at all. But it can't be Jeb up there saying "Please clap" either.

Trump has had 70 years of being a blowhard asshole to refine his schtick. Nobody is going to do it better than him. Part of his success is dragging people down to his level, where nobody does it "better" (worse).
 
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