Why Doesn't America Have a SOVEREIGN WEALTH FUND?

Nov 28, 2010
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This comment got me thinking

[Norway] is a major player in the oil and gas industry. All told, Oslo expects to bring in about $109bn from the petroleum sector this year – $82bn more than in 2021. Much of that will go to the country’s sovereign wealth fund, a national nest egg worth more than $1tn.​

Depending on how much "more" than $1 trillion it actually is, that approaches $200,000 per citizen.

If the US had a comparable Sovereign Wealth Fund, it would hold over $60 trillion.

 
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Nov 28, 2010
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Because the debt we owe is payable in USD?

Finance guys, yes? no? Bueller?
More likely, I think, because we value tax cuts for the rich over a national savings account for all.

We also think America's natural resources ought to belong to folks like Exxon and Koch rather than to the people of our nation.

I may not approve of how Norway made all that money, but I do approve of how they are handling it.
 

seminole97

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Jun 14, 2005
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This comment got me thinking

[Norway] is a major player in the oil and gas industry. All told, Oslo expects to bring in about $109bn from the petroleum sector this year – $82bn more than in 2021. Much of that will go to the country’s sovereign wealth fund, a national nest egg worth more than $1tn.​

Depending on how much "more" than $1 trillion it actually is, that approaches $200,000 per citizen.

If the US had a comparable Sovereign Wealth Fund, it would hold over $60 trillion.

Because Congress spends every penny of revenue they can touch, plus another trillion or so they can’t.
 

seminole97

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We also think America's natural resources ought to belong to folks like Exxon and Koch rather than to the people of our nation.
The U.S. government sells mineral rights to ‘folks like Exxon and Koch’ to turn those minerals into products the people of our nation want.
Your question is why doesn’t the Congress put the proceeds of those mineral rights into a savings account instead of spend them.
 
Nov 28, 2010
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It’s a worthy goal but first we should concentrate on our national debt. $31 Trillion and counting. That works out to $247,882 per taxpayer and $93,743 per citizen. This does not include state and local debt.

I suggest we use half of our Sovereign Wealth Fund to pay off the national debt. Oh wait.

Alternatively, we could restore the tax rates under Reagan.
 

St. Louis Hawk

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The U.S. government sells mineral rights to ‘folks like Exxon and Koch’ to turn those minerals into products the people of our nation want.
Your question is why doesn’t the Congress put the proceeds of those mineral rights into a savings account instead of spend them.

Because we need to spend trillions on military programs that produce planes and ships that don’t work?
 
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Bank of Hawk

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Just like any individual with a mortgage or other debt… one should also look at their income and debt ratio. In 2021, the US tax receipts were was $4t.. debt today of $31T… 7.75 ratio.

A family making $200k a year; might have a $400k mortgage and $100k of misc other debt. $200k into $500k is a 2.5 ratio. Certainly most would be perfectly fine with that ratio.

If a family was making $200k a year and their debt ratio was the same as the US government, that family would be sitting on $1,500,000 of debt on a $200,000 annual salary. This type of situation would be untenable for most families.
 

Hawgk

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We have one. It looks like this:


money-printer-goes-brrr-brrrr.gif
 

83Hawk

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More likely, I think, because we value tax cuts for the rich over a national savings account for all.

We also think America's natural resources ought to belong to folks like Exxon and Koch rather than to the people of our nation.

I may not approve of how Norway made all that money, but I do approve of how they are handling it.
You are free to move there.

Since libs think just about every country is better than the U.S., I don't understand why they don't just leave.
 
Jul 16, 2022
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And yet Norway has among the best social programs and safety net in the world. How do they manage that AND an impressive sovereign wealth fund?

If they can do both, why can't we?
Norway has a huge land mass and blessed with many natural resources yet has only 5.4 million people. Income from North Sea Oil accounts for the bulk of their wealth and they have very few people falling in to their safety nets. They have also steered clear of joining the EU.
 
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hwk23

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Nov 22, 2010
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And yet Norway has among the best social programs and safety net in the world. How do they manage that AND an impressive sovereign wealth fund?

If they can do both, why can't we?
They spend money wisely. They don’t pay much more taxes. Looks like Norway pays around 37% of gdp in taxes. If you add federal, state, local, sales tax, real estate taxes, other taxes, social security, medicare and health care premiums (included with taxes in Norway) I think you get pretty close to the Norway figure. I doubt Norway spends as much collecting taxes too or for administration at multiple levels.
 
Nov 28, 2010
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Norway has a huge land mass and blessed with many natural resources yet has only 5.4 million people. Income from North Sea Oil accounts for the bulk of their wealth and they have very few people falling in to their safety nets. They have also steered clear of joining the EU.
Sounds very like the usual description of America from a few decades back - and the popular explanation of why we got so rich.

If we started with similar virtues (not to mention a stronger agricultural sector and fewer climate challenges) why does Norway still have the advantages of resources - PLUS better social programs, safety net and a national savings account?

I suspect Norway having few people fall into their safety nets shows their wise use of wealth, rather than being a reason for having that wealth. Invest in your people and infrastructure, and you might be expected to have fewer people who need help.
 
Nov 28, 2010
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If you add federal, state, local, sales tax, real estate taxes, other taxes, social security, medicare and health care premiums (included with taxes in Norway) I think you get pretty close to the Norway figure.
If so, isn't that all the more reason to think we should be able to do much better?
 

hwk23

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Nov 22, 2010
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If so, isn't that all the more reason to think we should be able to do much better?
Yes we could. A lot better.. If it were up to me I would nationalize healthcare in steps (maybe thru m4a) and drastically cut federal government departments like the FBI, DoD and IRS now. I don't believe the current healthcare system is efficient. It's certainly not free market. There must be a more efficient way to collect taxes than hire 80k additional agents. Most people who who would be targets have accountants or attorneys (another tax) who usually have integrity and know the law better than the agents.
 
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hwk23

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If so, isn't that all the more reason to think we should be able to do much better?
btw, did you know even Russia has universal healthcare? Given it's not close to our standards but we are the richest country in the world and spend an astronomical 20% of gdp on healthcare. That figure was 5% of gdp in the 1950's.
 
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billanole

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This comment got me thinking

[Norway] is a major player in the oil and gas industry. All told, Oslo expects to bring in about $109bn from the petroleum sector this year – $82bn more than in 2021. Much of that will go to the country’s sovereign wealth fund, a national nest egg worth more than $1tn.​

Depending on how much "more" than $1 trillion it actually is, that approaches $200,000 per citizen.

If the US had a comparable Sovereign Wealth Fund, it would hold over $60 trillion.

A majority of the US citizenry does not fundamentally value long term planning and actions that benefit all of society.
 
Jul 16, 2022
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They spend money wisely. They don’t pay much more taxes. Looks like Norway pays around 37% of gdp in taxes. If you add federal, state, local, sales tax, real estate taxes, other taxes, social security, medicare and health care premiums (included with taxes in Norway) I think you get pretty close to the Norway figure. I doubt Norway spends as much collecting taxes too or for administration at multiple levels.
Most of the Americans I know with Norwegian ancestors are what I would describe as "frugal". Not sure that still translates back to the "old country" but it might be in their DNA.:cool:
 
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billanole

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Mar 5, 2005
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Norway has a huge land mass and blessed with many natural resources yet has only 5.4 million people. Income from North Sea Oil accounts for the bulk of their wealth and they have very few people falling in to their safety nets. They have also steered clear of joining the EU.
So, the US cannot mimic their ability to provide for all?
We have massive resources, a huge work force, a very positive climate for food production, ability to provide healthcare…. Why do we have so many doing “without”?
 

The Tradition

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Apr 23, 2002
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So, the US cannot mimic their ability to provide for all?
We have massive resources, a huge work force, a very positive climate for food production, ability to provide healthcare…. Why do we have so many doing “without”?

Some people need an "incentive" to make something more for themselves.

Too much welfare is a "disincentive" to doing that.
 

onlyTheObvious

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So, the US cannot mimic their ability to provide for all?
We have massive resources, a huge work force, a very positive climate for food production, ability to provide healthcare…. Why do we have so many doing “without”?
United States has bankrupt itself being the police of the world. Maybe somebody else could step up. Or raise taxes to do what you suggest.