The NFL Draft is not until April 25th. Why do some of you view sitting out the bowl game differently than any other regular season game? Would you be ok with a scholarship player deciding he didn't want to play against Nebraska? How about Illinois? I would argue that a solid bowl performance on the national stage is even more important than either of these games. I would understand sitting out the bowl if the draft was in January and players wanted to avoid a last minute injury. But it's not until APRIL and refusing to play in the bowl shouldn't be any more or less acceptable than any regular season game, in my opinion.
Why is sitting out the bowl game more "acceptable" than any other regular season game?
- Thread starter speed4power
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Because a Big Ten game means more than the Outback Bowl.
Also, the reasoning for sitting out the last game of the year to prepare for your next step (the draft) is completely different than sitting out a game in the middle of the season to prepare for...the next week's game?
Not sure what's so hard for people to grasp...
Also, the reasoning for sitting out the last game of the year to prepare for your next step (the draft) is completely different than sitting out a game in the middle of the season to prepare for...the next week's game?
Not sure what's so hard for people to grasp...
I'm just guessing here, but perhaps it's about what is at stake. I.E. if Will Grier plays well vs Syracuse, how much could he really raise his stock vs how much his stock could fall based on a poor performance or injury. If he could have played his team into the CFP and looked good against elite competition, his stock could have increased significantly. If he didn't play a whole season, his stock would surely have fallen I would think
I get that is an arguement. People will argue that the bowl game isn't "important". But it is. It still contributes to the team's final record, final ranking, and leaves a last impression in recruits minds heading into signing season. Again, I would argue that a solid performance vs a nationally respected team in primetime on national TV is more important for the program than a game vs 4-7 Nebraska or a crappy Illinois team. It shouldn't be viewed any differently.
This "oh the bowl game doesn't matter, maybe we'll win maybe we'll lose, who cares" attitude is a losing mentality.
Exactly. Unreal how people don't get this. Winning the last regular season game can have a huge impact on what bowl the team goes to.
If people are seriously this butthurt by Fant's decision, get back to us the next time you have a decision to make that could personally cost you tens of millions of dollars. Until you actually are facing that kind of a decision out there in the real, live three-dimensional world, all the self-righteous "I wouldn't abandon my team" message board BS just makes you sound clueless.
You are missing the point entirely. This is not about Fant. Every time an NFL prospect steps on the field they are risking money, including against UNI and NIU. The point is the NFL draft is not until April, and a decision to play in the bowl games shouldn't be viewed differently than any other game. Your risk of injury doesn't magically increase 200% in a bowl game.
The ONLY logical arguements to support this decision are A) the bowl game is too close to the draft or B) the bowl game is completely inconsequential and the outcome totally does not matter. Both points I totally disagree with.
The risks outweigh the benefits. Not only does he risk injury in the game, but he also risks injury in the 2 weeks of bowl prep. A torn ACL would easily cost him a drop of multiple rounds in the draft. I whole-heartedly agree with his decision, and will cheer for him at the Combine.
I lost all respect for NF.
and I thought KF taught better character than this.
life is not all about money.
in fact, the love of money is the root of all evil.
and I thought KF taught better character than this.
life is not all about money.
in fact, the love of money is the root of all evil.
It's pretty clear to the guys skipping these bowls, they disagree with you.
Scouts don’t care if the game was nationally televised game. They have enough film over two years to evaluate you as a player, a bowl game is not going to change anything. All bowl games are just ways schools and conferences can generate more money. All they are is you had a pretty good season but aren’t good enough to play for something worth value but we want you to add another game of wear and tear on your body.
I am sure he gives a shit.
With the amount of money on the table, I think you have to weigh something like combine performance as the most important test you might take in your life. And yes, it's beyond silly that combine performance is weighed so heavily by many NFL deciders. (And really, that might be a big part of this issue.)
Great problem for any team to have. If Iowa was lucky it would be every year instead of one or twice a decade.
There is obviously upside in getting the next guy a good head start going into next year.
Great problem for any team to have. If Iowa was lucky it would be every year instead of one or twice a decade.
There is obviously upside in getting the next guy a good head start going into next year.
So you would rather win this game against Miss St. then say the game earlier in the season against Wisconsin? And you truly do not see the difference between the two?
Obviously if we are still in the running for a Big10 championship the Wisconsin game is more important. But I would rather win this game than say... Northwestern for example. Or even Purdue.
I am sure he will be just fine without your respect.
His numbers at the combine/pro day will matter a lot more than his 3 catches for 40 yards and a TD would in a game, that in the grand scheme of things, means nothing except for maybe padding Kirk's wallet and guys like Gervase who are ending their career but a sustained NFL career isn't likely, getting one more game. It means something to the University money wise, it means a vacation for the team and their families, but overall it's just a game for people to make money on... except the players.
There are a handful of bowls that mean something and that is about it.
Oh no, you can't make qualifiers. You clearly stated that a Big Ten game is no different than a bowl game. Of course we were still in the Big Ten race when we played Wisconsin, so what you're saying if Fant sat out that game and played in the Outback bowl it would be the same exact situation.
You can't make the argument that this bowl game (or any random one) means the same and counts the same as every other game. The people who have no problem with Fant skipping the Outback Bowl are the same people saying they wouldn't like it if he skipped a meaningful conference game or a championship game or a Rose Bowl. If you say the same thing you are effectively making our point for us.
Wow, I can't believe it took us this long before someone found a way to blame Kirk. Well done everyone, we're improving.
Jesus, I can't believe people are still b******* about this. Let it go. Guy is making a life decision that nobody on here has ever or will ever have to make.
Ok, I should have titled this thread
Why is sitting out the bowl game more "acceptable" than ***most*** other regular season games? ***(with the execption of the Wisconsin or Penn State games)***
Maybe that would articulate my opinion precisely enough for afsocker. The point is all the games matter, they all happen well before the draft, your chance of injury is the same in all the games, and it makes little sense to single out the bowl game as the one game that you are going to sit out. JFC.
Outside of the playoff games, every other bowl game is just a reward for having a winning season. They are meaningless in the grand scheme of things, and only used for bragging rights between the schools and fans. If NF decides to forego collecting his reward by not playing in this game, then that's his choice. I doubt KF is mad about the decision, so why are you?
If NF had decided to skip a game in the regular season (while being healthy) then he basically forfeits his scholarship.
Cause they done. You sit out bowl, mean they be done at college. Their choice. Risk millions or play meaningless bowl game. Times have changed for kids, schools and bowls.
I get what you mean and from a fans perspective I wish they played too, but I will never know what it feels like to be given a winning lottery ticket, so it is not my position to tell one on how to live their life, just like I don't expect any of these draft prospects to tell me how I should live my life.
It's the law of diminishing returns. For some the later in the season a player gets the less the next game means to their overall draft stock.
I also would watch what you ask for about players skipping other games in the season. It may very well become an issue where kids leave teams with 3-4 games left instead of bowls. The only way to curtail this, is if either schools start paying NFL prospects in school or the very least pay for insurance on the risk of lost income from injuries.
Just like in business, you want longer termed sustained performance, incentivise. And to defend this last comment to those that say this is college football not a business, then tell that to all the college coaches making millions, the billions of dollars in revenue generated through TV contracts. If this isn't a business make games free to all students not just discounted.
What does "acceptable" have to do with it? You're either ok with it or not ok. They don't need anyone's permission to do it.
I'm not super happy about it, but I'm going to get over it. Personal choice.
I'm not super happy about it, but I'm going to get over it. Personal choice.
I'm curious why would you rather beat Mississippi State, a team with essentially the same record and ranking as Northwestern, whom Iowa has never played before and possibly never will again after this bowl game?
Northwestern has become somewhat of a rival and a continuous threat for the B1G west division whom we play every year. Shouldn't that game carry more weight?
It seems you are arguing all games are equally important, but then saying some are more important. The basis for that importance seems to be your own personal feelings or something, and you are confused why other people don't see things the way you do?
You forgot option C (duh), which is that he is a selfish little sh*t who doesn't give a flying f*ck about anyone but himself and just wants money, because he is evil or something. I get the feeling a lot of people on here would put him in the C category.
But in all seriousness I honestly I don't get how people can sit at home and act all high and mighty about this kids decision, when in reality all they are doing is judging someone else for their decision in a situation they have absolutely no understanding of, and never will (despite the fact that they totally think they get it and are super smart and morally sound people.)
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anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba
Guest
It's an "extra" game, an exhibition, a reward for the players and, as a result, players would seem to have the right to refuse the reward. Only a few do so, and it's almost always for a great reason: to avoid injury that could cost them millions of dollars. Seems like the wise thing to do, and it's no different than if the player WERE injured and missed the bowl game. It provides an opportunity for someone else. There is no real downside, it seems to me.
BTW: Imagine the outcry if Ronnie Harmon had sat out the 1986 Rose Bowl. But, of course, that would have been a blessing because Iowa almost certainly would have won that game and, maybe, the national title if Ronnie hadn't played.
BTW: Imagine the outcry if Ronnie Harmon had sat out the 1986 Rose Bowl. But, of course, that would have been a blessing because Iowa almost certainly would have won that game and, maybe, the national title if Ronnie hadn't played.
I agree with what you said about option C. I wouldn't berate a kid for deciding to sit out like some people do. I would be thinking about my future too if I was in that position. I'm merely pointing out that sitting out the bowl game is considered "normal" and totally ok by some people here, while sitting out a regular season game would be considered taboo. And the logic for that thought process doesn't really connect. The bowl game matters, it factors into a teams ranking, record, recruiting, it is a long time from the draft like all other games, your risk of injury is the same in all games. But for some reason it's more socially "acceptable" for a player to skip the bowl than any other random game. I'm just saying it doesn't make logical sense. If Fant wanted to chose a game to sit out, maybe he should have chosen UNI or NIU, or a game where we didn't need him to win.
As a side note, when a college offers you a scholarship they are making an investment in you. Maybe you will turn out to be a stud and win them lots of games, or maybe you will be a complete bust who's scholly should have been given to someone else. That is a calculated risk the college is taking. But as part of that scholarship you are agreeing to play in all the games in which you are healthy and able, in exchange for the school's investment in you.
Should we require to students to return part of that investment if they don't play in all the games? Is that something that can even be enforced? I mean, they are skipping because they are going to be millionaires, right?
Generally when student athletes quit a sport before the season is over they are responsible for that semester of tuition. Not saying that should be applied in this particular situation, but that is often the case in other sports.
Oh here's a question for you...
Iowa invested in Fant, a four year investment. He's only agreed to play for 73% of that now. Additionally, had Iowa known this they could have invested in someone who would have played all 4 years, so the value they got for Fant is actually lower than his 73%.
In addition to paying Iowa back for this incomplete season, should he also pay them additional in lost benefits from not signing a kid who would play all 4 years? They could go back and do a present value estimate from 2015 and figure out how much he actually cost them by being so selfish.
Or is it more like a loan that he now has to pay interest in because he hasn't "paid" his end of the deal?
Bowl games don't matter, the overall record doesn't matter. It has no effect on next year.
You're playing to win your division and make the championship game, if you don't accomplish that nothing after that matters.
Reality is that a bowl game is just a way for some company to make money.
Im all for a kid doing what ever is in their best interest. They are not getting paid. The university is making many millions off them, and Im ok with that they know what they signed up for but Im also sure as hell ok with the kids looking out for their own money too.
Thats how real like works.
You're playing to win your division and make the championship game, if you don't accomplish that nothing after that matters.
Reality is that a bowl game is just a way for some company to make money.
Im all for a kid doing what ever is in their best interest. They are not getting paid. The university is making many millions off them, and Im ok with that they know what they signed up for but Im also sure as hell ok with the kids looking out for their own money too.
Thats how real like works.
Most players are still proving their worth throughout the year. Not in the bowl game. Bowl games are beauty pagents, unless you are playing for a national championship.
Exactly... Most would want to win a Big10 Championship rather than the Outback Bowl.
Most players when they leave and don't play in the bowl game the injury worry is only part of it. When they have a agent and trainers they are getting prepared for the combine and other things the scouts are looking for.
While yes the draft isn't near the bowl, players would lose over a month of training with staying in school and practicing with the team for a specific opponent.
While yes the draft isn't near the bowl, players would lose over a month of training with staying in school and practicing with the team for a specific opponent.
Should have quit after the Northwestern game using some people's logic. Good for him to be able to make that choice. I don't like it but it's not my place to make that choice. The 'exhibition game' crowd are quite funny in that they don't look at what their premise would mean if followed.
OP - Talk to Jake Butt about playing his last game for Michigan in a bowl game and how that worked out for him.
Can’t believe anyone can say playing in a meaningless bowl game is worth risking millions when there’s nothing else in life that the vast majority of these players who have already sacrificed their bodies can ever do to earn that type of money.
Can’t believe anyone can say playing in a meaningless bowl game is worth risking millions when there’s nothing else in life that the vast majority of these players who have already sacrificed their bodies can ever do to earn that type of money.
By far the most logical response to the original question posted in this thread. 3 months of dedicated combine prep instead of 2. I'm not sure that would make a difference in performance but it's a consideration.
