Why some HROTers yawn at Russia influencing American elections

[IamHawkeye]

In no particular order:

Hey; we (Republicans) won!
Hillary didn't!
We (the USA) do this to other countries.
They (other countries) do it, too.
I've got a good job.
I'm going to pay less taxes.
But no actual votes were changed!
But what about Obama?

More to come.

 

[The Tradition]

This has always gone on and will continue to go on.

You people are shouting into the wind.

And the reason you're upset about it NOW is obviously political.

 

[naturalmwa]

This has always gone on and will continue to go on.

You people are shouting into the wind.

And the reason you're upset about it NOW is obviously political.

Your first one was already listed.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

because the committees and mueller and Rosenstein said they did not influence the elections?

 

[aflachawk]

In no particular order:

Hey; we (Republicans) won!
Hillary didn't!
We (the USA) do this to other countries.
They (other countries) do it, too.
I've got a good job.
I'm going to pay less taxes.
But no actual votes were changed!
But what about Obama?

More to come.

Obama yawned when Romney said they were our biggest for political threat too

 

[Jerome Silberman]

Obama yawned when Romney said they were our biggest for political threat too

And now(today, in present time) most of the GOP and their supporters seem to be doing the same thing. It's almost like all the firebreathing during the Obama years was just for show, as they clearly don't care to do anything differently.

 

[JRHawk2003]

Its because most of them dont care if Stalin himself was 1) Helping them get tax cuts 2) Keeping women from being able to get an abortion and 3) getting judges who will will allow bigotry to be called "religious freedom".

Thats actually three groups that have some overlap, but its the core of where they are at today. To them Neil Gorsch was worth it all. To others a tax cut is worth it all. Its not complicated.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

This has always gone on and will continue to go on.

You people are shouting into the wind.

And the reason you're upset about it NOW is obviously political.

I'm upset about treason and the fact that russia attempted to influence our election.

 

[The Tradition]

There is no "treason" and this isn't the first time Russia has tried to influence our elections.

 

[Mattski]

Except influence hasnt been proven to be accurate.

 

[dgordo]

 

[Mattski]

View embedded media

Aspired and influenced are equivalent now?

 

[Titanhawk2]

In no particular order:

Hey; we (Republicans) won!
Hillary didn't!
We (the USA) do this to other countries.
They (other countries) do it, too.
I've got a good job.
I'm going to pay less taxes.
But no actual votes were changed!
But what about Obama?

More to come.

Because they didn't influence the election, unless you have some examples that they did

 

[dgordo]

Aspired and influenced are equivalent now?

Who said that?

 

[Mattski]

Who said that?

Every lefty ever?

 

[BelemNole]

Every lefty ever?

So, it's your position that the wikileaks leak had no influence on the election?

 

[Greenway12]

If it was so egregious, why didn't the President at the time stop it?

 

[BelemNole]

If it was so egregious, why didn't the President at the time stop it?

Are you being willfully ignorant? How do you put the genie back in the box?
McConnell refused to sign a joint statement before the election because winning was more important that letting the public know what was going on.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-bipartisan-statement-on-russian-interference

 

[MepoDawg#]

View embedded media

She and the Dems made it too easy whether the Russians actually did it or not as common voters could do the same thing to both Clinton and Trump. That’s the problem with negative campaigns for anyone. Too much about the other candidate(s) and not enough about what and how they’ll do something. You all can argue until blue in the face, it doesn’t make one bit of difference, the swamp continues on both sides.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Are you being willfully ignorant? How do you put the genie back in the box?
McConnell refused to sign a joint statement before the election because winning was more important that letting the public know what was going on.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-bipartisan-statement-on-russian-interference

Give it up...there is literally nothing that will get them to acknowledge what happened and is still happening. They have their tribe and they have to defend it at all costs...even if it's their integrity.

 

[The Tradition]

Give it up...there is literally nothing that will get them to acknowledge what happened and is still happening. They have their tribe and they have to defend it at all costs...even if it's their integrity.

~ahem~

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/thre...ncing-american-elections.237081/#post-5535455

 

[Hawkeye009]

What kind of a fool do you have to be to think that these efforts DIDN'T influence the election? You think Russia just invested the time and energy for nothing? That these standard tactics are just to waste time? This type of stuff works. That's why campaigns do it.

 

[unIowa]

Obama yawned when Romney said they were our biggest for political threat too

And now(today, in present time) most of the GOP and their supporters seem to be doing the same thing. It's almost like all the firebreathing during the Obama years was just for show, as they clearly don't care to do anything differently.

What it shows is how similar republican and democrats really are when their side is in power. It’s hilarious to see these two groups act like the same people who they claim to hate. Gotta love politics.

 

[The Tradition]

What kind of a fool do you have to be to think that these efforts DIDN'T influence the election? You think Russia just invested the time and energy for nothing? That these standard tactics are just to waste time? This type of stuff works. That's why campaigns do it.

Russian influence was a nothing more than a pimple on the entire body of campaign spending and the "influence" of various organizations pushing for one candidate or the other.

 

[Hawkeye009]

Russian influence was a nothing more than a pimple on the entire body of campaign spending and the "influence" of various organizations pushing for one candidate or the other.

Were they just bored? Dumb? Wanting to waste money? This rationalization makes sense only on the surface.

You, of course, have no idea if it was only a pimple. Assuming that, however, is to assume a lot of effort and coordination by intelligence officers for nothing. I dislike the Russians, but I don't think they are that stupid.

Finally, even if this was all "just a pimple." Little things matter. The straw that breaks the camel's back is still only a straw.

In sum, your argument isn't very good.

 

[naturalmwa]

Obama yawned when Romney said they were our biggest for political threat too

And now you do. Fun how that works out.

 

[naturalmwa]

There is no "treason" and this isn't the first time Russia has tried to influence our elections.

But it is the first time the GOP told us it was OK.

 

[joelbc1]

Russian influence was a nothing more than a pimple on the entire body of campaign spending and the "influence" of various organizations pushing for one candidate or the other.

I honestly believe you know better, Trad. You just can’t admit it. I believe Putin’s thumbprint on the 2016 election was significant. The Clinton’s really pissed him off and he was gonna get even with them.

 

[SoMplsHawkI]

What kind of a fool do you have to be to think that these efforts DIDN'T influence the election? You think Russia just invested the time and energy for nothing? That these standard tactics are just to waste time? This type of stuff works. That's why campaigns do it.

This. A thousand times this.

 

[RNHawk]

So, it's your position that the wikileaks leak had no influence on the election?

so you are more upset with the priest who told the police about a murderer than the actual person who committed the murder

 

[BelemNole]

so you are more upset with the priest who told the police about a murderer than the actual person who committed the murder

Derp

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

What kind of a fool do you have to be to think that these efforts DIDN'T influence the election? You think Russia just invested the time and energy for nothing? That these standard tactics are just to waste time? This type of stuff works. That's why campaigns do it.

Some of you act as though the Russian meddling was done in a vacuum and all by itself magically tipped the election to Trump like there were a goodly number of "neutrals" who didn't know who to vote for until they read the Russian sponsored propaganda. There were many, many "voices" trying to influence the election, yes, the Russians were one of them. But to isolate one, relatively minor one, is foolhardy.

While not OK, it sure wasn't the first time that this has happened by any means and there is NOTHING solid that indicates that the Russian meddling was the deciding factor, or really even a significant one. Besides that...it was a top Dem(John Podesta) that fell for a second grade level phishing scheme that opened the door for a lot of this noise. And the damage that was done...egads, it was done with actual emails that revealed the true feelings and attitudes that many top Dem's had towards others. The horror!

Largely because the Dem's cannot look in the mirror and own the fact that they ran a hugely unpopular candidate, one that couldn't beat out the relatively unknown Barack Obama in 2008 BTW, and they got beat. So bad was Hillary Clinton that she got beat by Donald Freaking Trump.

It WASN'T the Russians...it was your candidate. Once you realize this, you may actually make some changes so we don't again have a run-off between two people of their ilk.

 

[Hawkeye009]

Some of you act as though the Russian meddling was done in a vacuum and all by itself magically tipped the election to Trump like there were a goodly number of "neutrals" who didn't know who to vote for until they read the Russian sponsored propaganda. There were many, many "voices" trying to influence the election, yes, the Russians were one of them. But to isolate one, relatively minor one, is foolhardy.

Who? Where? I think everyone I've seen discussing this (other than the must-defend-Trumpers) has said that this had an impact. Not that it was the only thing happening in the election. You are reading what you want to read.

While not OK, it sure wasn't the first time that this has happened by any means and there is NOTHING solid that indicates that the Russian meddling was the deciding factor, or really even a significant one.

I'm not sure what the relevance of this is to the question of whether the US should investigate and punish this type of behavior. The alleged efforts here seem to go well beyond what's happened in the past, no? Don't they indicate a growing danger in the new technology era? Why sweep it under the rug just because Trump is insecure about his win? Finally, again, is your position that Russia spent all of the time and energy on this just for fun? Because they didn't think it would have an impact? You think that they targeted their efforts on certain parts of the country just to try stuff out?

Besides that...it was a top Dem(John Podesta) that fell for a second grade level phishing scheme that opened the door for a lot of this noise. And the damage that was done...egads, it was done with actual emails that revealed the true feelings and attitudes that many top Dem's had towards others. The horror!

Irrelevant to the legal issue unless, gasp, you are slipping into being a partisan hack. The must-defend-Trumpers can't get it through their heads that some of us care about the integrity of the system more than some stupid political squabble.

Largely because the Dem's cannot look in the mirror and own the fact that they ran a hugely unpopular candidate, one that couldn't beat out the relatively unknown Barack Obama in 2008 BTW, and they got beat. So bad was Hillary Clinton that she got beat by Donald Freaking Trump.

It WASN'T the Russians...it was your candidate. Once you realize this, you may actually make some changes so we don't again have a run-off between two people of their ilk.

Would it help you out if I told you that I thought that she was a terrible candidate who had made many errors? Again, you keep funneling this through your own lens. You presume that this is all about reversing the election. For some, I'm sure it is. But there is enough out there for everyone else to be concerned too. Combine that with Trump's historically weak, and straight dumb performance last week and his ongoing discussions with Putin, and you have to be just absolutely blinded with hatred for the Democrats to not want this pursued.

TLDR: those opposing this are being as hackish as the people who are foaming at their mouths working any theory to upend Trump. Russian efforts here were widespread, illegal, and influenced the election (note that I didn't say "decided" the election). There's nothing to debate there. You can choose to care or to not care.

 

[Hawkeye009]

Just, for good measure, it is also worth the thought experiment of considering how people would be reacting if everything were flipped. A foreign country hacks the RNC, emails the Clinton campaign, there are oddly timed meetings and strategic releases of the information throughout the campaign, and Clinton wins. Does anybody think for one second that these "pimple" comments would fly with the Republicans? That's just laughable. They'd (justifiable) cry and whine over the process, about the sanctity of the American elections, about this as evidence of HRC's lack of fit, and about how we just cannot know how many people were influenced. It doesn't take a genius to think this through.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Who? Where? I think everyone I've seen discussing this (other than the must-defend-Trumpers) has said that this had an impact. Not that it was the only thing happening in the election. You are reading what you want to read.



I'm not sure what the relevance of this is to the question of whether the US should investigate and punish this type of behavior. The alleged efforts here seem to go well beyond what's happened in the past, no? Don't they indicate a growing danger in the new technology era? Why sweep it under the rug just because Trump is insecure about his win? Finally, again, is your position that Russia spent all of the time and energy on this just for fun? Because they didn't think it would have an impact? You think that they targeted their efforts on certain parts of the country just to try stuff out?



Irrelevant to the legal issue unless, gasp, you are slipping into being a partisan hack. The must-defend-Trumpers can't get it through their heads that some of us care about the integrity of the system more than some stupid political squabble.



Would it help you out if I told you that I thought that she was a terrible candidate who had made many errors? Again, you keep funneling this through your own lens. You presume that this is all about reversing the election. For some, I'm sure it is. But there is enough out there for everyone else to be concerned too. Combine that with Trump's historically weak, and straight dumb performance last week and his ongoing discussions with Putin, and you have to be just absolutely blinded with hatred for the Democrats to not want this pursued.

TLDR: those opposing this are being as hackish as the people who are foaming at their mouths working any theory to upend Trump. Russian efforts here were widespread, illegal, and influenced the election (note that I didn't say "decided" the election). There's nothing to debate there. You can choose to care or to not care.

I didn't say nothing should be done, I think it would be best if something was done to prevent it in the future. BUT...good luck with that, as the US has been more of a foreign election meddler than the Russians. We are not standing on the high ground here.

Clearly the Russians sought to influence our POTUS election, as they have in previous run-offs. Yet no one flipped out then. While a real thing, and something that should be dealt with much better than what Trump is doing now, it isn't the huge deal it is being made out to be by so many. It is being used largely as a smoke screen cover for an embarrassing defeat.

 

[BABiscuit]

These are thing that came from Russia: Conspiracy against Bernie Sanders/Rigged primary
Rigged debates/Brazile
Pizzagate conspiracy
Pay for play accusations
Seth Rich conspiracy theories (promulgated by Fox News and mainstream cons)
Public and private position hoopla
Accusations that she had advocated for open borders
Claims that DNC was anti-catholic
General propaganda
Opportunity to conflate her email issues everything else

Can you really say none of that had influence? You don't think any Sanders voters were turned off? That got tons of play. Trump talked about it all the time. Look at all those talking points that wouldn't have been there if not for the hacks.

 

[gohawks50]

I am convinced that even if there was a video showing Trump working with Russian spies to rig the election, Trump supporters would claim he was doing it for the good of the country. Trump voters seem to have the uncanny ability to justify anything that he does regardless of the truth.

 

[Hawkeye009]

I didn't say nothing should be done, I think it would be best if something was done to prevent it in the future. BUT...good luck with that, as the US has been more of a foreign election meddler than the Russians. We are not standing on the high ground here.

This argument continues to be terrible. If Russia bombed us, I would expect us to respond. I don't care that we don't have the moral high ground given our bombing of other countries. The US protects its interests. Period.

Clearly the Russians sought to influence our POTUS election, as they have in previous run-offs. Yet no one flipped out then. While a real thing, and something that should be dealt with much better than what Trump is doing now, it isn't the huge deal it is being made out to be by so many.

I'd love to read about prior meddling that was this extensive, involved a hack and release of information fro a political party, and that involved conversations with those involved with the other campaign. Look, meddling happens. But context matters. If you can't see the different context here, I don't know what to tell you. Are you comfortable with future hacks of the RNC by foreign countries and the use of that information in a campaign? If not, this must be fought now.

It is being used largely as a smoke screen cover for an embarrassing defeat.

There is no smokescreen. She lost. Trump is sitting in the Oval Office. Outside of a few fringe elements, everybody admits that. That's no reason to turn a blind eye to this or to say that it was no big deal. Trump and his supporters need to stop being so insecure about his win and get to the bottom of this. He won. Own it, investigate, prosecute, and get to the bottom of this. What are you all afraid of finding? I don't get it. Let the crazies be crazy and respond in kind. They shouldn't stop this investigation.

 

[Hawkeye009]

I am convinced that even if there was a video showing Trump working with Russian spies to rig the election, Trump supporters would claim he was doing it for the good of the country. Trump voters seem to have the uncanny ability to justify anything that he does regardless of the truth.

From a former KGB agent in a 1984 interview (apparently):

“As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore,” said Bezmenov. “A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him. Even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures; even if I take him by force to the Soviet Union and show him [a] concentration camp, he will refuse to believe it, until he [receives] a kick in his fan-bottom. When a military boot crashes his balls then he will understand. But not before that. That's the [tragedy] of the situation of demoralization.”

Interesting read (haven't researched to fact check, but there's a video of the interview): https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/34-years-ago-a-kgb-defector-described-america-today

 

[Rudolph]

I didn't say nothing should be done, I think it would be best if something was done to prevent it in the future. BUT...good luck with that, as the US has been more of a foreign election meddler than the Russians. We are not standing on the high ground here.

Clearly the Russians sought to influence our POTUS election, as they have in previous run-offs. Yet no one flipped out then. While a real thing, and something that should be dealt with much better than what Trump is doing now, it isn't the huge deal it is being made out to be by so many. It is being used largely as a smoke screen cover for an embarrassing defeat.

People that parrot this line need to consider that maybe, just maybe, this is their smoke screen—or maybe better described as their security blanket—rationalizing their oddly continued support of a party like today's GOP and a man like Trump (who's become the face of it).