Why we need the NRA more than ever before!

[LuckyNed]

The organization's political strength rests on the bipartisan and diverse make-up of its membership and of the millions of nonmember firearms owners who look to the NRA for leadership and their willingness to step up to the plate and the ballot box when their rights are threatened.

It is that second attribute of Second Amendment supporters that has surprised the president and his allies. The Obama administration has attempted to demonize the NRA and cow gun owners into accepting restrictions that they know won't make anyone safer but which will interfere with a citizen's ability to acquire, keep and rely on firearms to protect their families or participate in the shooting sports.

Among those proposals are "universal" background checks that will never be "universal" because criminals won't submit to them, and magazine bans that will put the law-abiding at a disadvantage against multiple attackers. The president also backs a new ban on "assault weapons," even though Christopher Koper, the researcher who studied the last ban for the Justice Department concluded that it caused "no discernible reduction in the lethality or injuriousness of gun violence" and did not contribute to the general drop in crime in the 1990s.

But gun owners have been energized rather than cowed. They are presenting a truly united front as they rally to fight for their constitutionally guaranteed rights.

 

[naturalmwa]

Did you answer the question? I missed it.

 

[LuckyNed]

Those hostile to firearms ownership and the Second Amendment think they are on the verge of victory, but in fact the anti second amendment crowd has managed to wake up millions of Americans who hadn't previously believed their government would ever threaten their guns or their way of life. They are now joined by others who were not necessarily gun owners but believed the Second Amendment and the rights it guaranteed a free people worth preserving.

The NRA will once again rescue this country from the knee jerk reaction crowd in the White House.

 

[Gimmered]

Did you answer the question? I missed it.

What was the question?

 

[slieb85]

Did you answer the question? I missed it.

I think he just Ciggy'd this post?

 

[slieb85]

I agree we need the NRA. We need the NRA to be sensible and propose solutions, not back into a corner and refuse to talk reasonably. But also, we need gun owners to realize that they are part of the solution, by pushing that organization to reform and begin protecting their interests again.

Remember, this Oregon mother was keeping guns (in her own words, on a board similar to this one) to "protect her house." Sounds like the rhetoric that we see on this board...

 

[LuckyNed]

I agree we need the NRA. We need the NRA to be sensible and propose solutions, not back into a corner and refuse to talk reasonably. But also, we need gun owners to realize that they are part of the solution, by pushing that organization to reform and begin protecting their interests again.

Remember, this Oregon mother was keeping guns (in her own words, on a board similar to this one) to "protect her house." Sounds like the rhetoric that we see on this board...

So you disagree that a homeowner should be able to own a gun to protect family?

 

[LuckyNed]

I agree we need the NRA. We need the NRA to be sensible and propose solutions, not back into a corner and refuse to talk reasonably. But also, we need gun owners to realize that they are part of the solution, by pushing that organization to reform and begin protecting their interests again.

Remember, this Oregon mother was keeping guns (in her own words, on a board similar to this one) to "protect her house." Sounds like the rhetoric that we see on this board...

I am trying to understand your response are you saying you disagree that a homeowner should be able to own a gun to protect family and home?

 

[slieb85]

So you disagree that a homeowner should be able to own a gun to protect family?

Nope. I think they absolutely should. But I think that there should be sensible restrictions. Which you don't, clearly, based on your idiotic posts the last few days. And the NRA hasn't felt that way recently, which is why they are viewed as a joke.

 

[slieb85]

Also I'm pointing out that this woman owned guns to "protect her family."

How did that work out for everyone else, and their families?

 

[lucas80]

Responsible gun owners need to spin off from the NRA and start their own organization. One that isn't unwilling to have a discussion about gun violence in America.

 

[LuckyNed]

I agree we need the NRA. We need the NRA to be sensible and propose solutions, not back into a corner and refuse to talk reasonably. But also, we need gun owners to realize that they are part of the solution, by pushing that organization to reform and begin protecting their interests again.

Remember, this Oregon mother was keeping guns (in

Nope. I think they absolutely should. But I think that there should be sensible restrictions. Which you don't, clearly, based on your idiotic posts the last few days. And the NRA hasn't felt that way recently, which is why they are viewed as a joke.

Please enlighten me on your sensible restrictions?

 

[lucas80]

Bi-partisan membership is a stretch. Diverse membership is fantasy. Ned, are you sticking to just this handle tonight, or are you going to bust a bunch of them out and "like", yourself repeatedly tonight? I'm watching the Yankees and Astros and don't really have enough time to invest in tracking you.

 

[LuckyNed]

Most anti-gun advocates do not realize that unlike people in many other countries that have had their firearm forcefully taken away, the Second Amendment to the Bill of Rights is an unchangeable and unquestionable authority above the President and the Congress. Others rightly argue that because this is a right to self-defense it is even above the Constitution; a God given right, it should never be taken away from the people regardless.

Let’s note that the Founding Fathers were not government elitists or presidents who were elected by corporate interest lobbying millions of dollars funneled to their campaigns. They were exceptionally wise men who had studied the history, governments, cultures and societies that went before them and wanted nothing but the good and prosperity of the people and their republic; that is exactly why they were ready to sacrifice their lives in defense of liberty and freedom from the British Colonialism.

Therefore, any governmental restrictions on guns imposed upon the American citizens is unconstitutional and would literary mean an attack on the Constitution. We have to recognize that the Constitution of the United States has been one of the greatest human rights legislation in history; an exemplary manuscript that gives power to the people over the governments or corporations. It has led a nation into freedom and prosperity; while forcing its government and its branches to remain faithful to its citizens. We have to repeat this: we need to understand that the Constitution as a whole is exactly what gave rise to the greatness, freedom and prosperity of not only America, but many other nations who have mimicked it as an example.

 

[slieb85]

Please enlighten me on your sensible restrictions?

Limit the number of guns produced in the country each year. Limit the amount annually legally able to be purchased by each person. Limit the capacity each gun can shoot before being re-loaded. Create some sort of mental issues database, which simply green-lights or red-lights gun sales, allow for those who are red-lighted to apply to be green-lighted, and create a system that evaluates those people. Create a national gun registry, and make it a felony if you are found owning guns that are not registered. Create a fund that addresses the woeful mental health services in this country, so that we can help those who are (according to some) most likely to commit these crimes.

There are a few things that aren't going to unnecessarily infringe on the 2nd amendment, and discussing them and working toward acceptable solutions, might actually curb some of this crap.

And I thought of those off the top of my head while watching the baseball game and eating dinner. I'm sure those who care a lot more about this, if they tried really really really hard, might come up with a few more options.

 

[LuteHawk]

This Saturday at midnight the NRA will have séance with
the late, great Charlton Heston. It will be held at Arlington
National Cemetery in Washington D.C. Clint Eastwood will
conduct the conversation with Mr. Heston.

 

[lucas80]

I didn't see it in Slieb's list, but I'll add one: If you have a restraining order against you by your ex-wife or girlfriend you must surrender your guns to the county sheriff until an evaluation is performed on your potential level of violence. Mass shootings get a lot of attention, and drug dealers wasting each other in Chicago, but, a pissed off man kills a woman every day of the year in this country.

 

[slieb85]

I didn't see it in Slieb's list, but I'll add one: If you have a restraining order against you by your ex-wife or girlfriend you must surrender your guns to the county sheriff until an evaluation is performed on your potential level of violence. Mass shootings get a lot of attention, and drug dealers wasting each other in Chicago, but, a pissed off man kills a woman every day of the year in this country.

That's a good one. I'd add in any violent offender loses their right to buy or own guns (define it as a violence based felony) for X number of years with a mandatory hearing before it's reinstated, and any drug dealing, some drug possession (meth, crack, a few others) and drunk driving conviction and it's suspended for X number of years with a hearing to reinstate.

 

[LuckyNed]

As gun owners, we are all dedicated to safe firearm usage, and NRA is the leading provider of firearms safety training in the world. With tens of thousands of trainers and instructors, NRA provides the curriculum and guidelines that allow millions of Americans to learn how to use and store firearms safely.

 

[slieb85]

As gun owners, we are all dedicated to safe firearm usage, and NRA is the leading provider of firearms safety training in the world. With tens of thousands of trainers and instructors, NRA provides the curriculum and guidelines that allow millions of Americans to learn how to use and store firearms safely.

Oh.

Ok so you don't really want to engage. You just want to go Lutehawk posting style.

Duly noted. Carry on with your NRA platitude spouting.

 

[Gimmered]

Oh.

Ok so you don't really want to engage. You just want to go Lutehawk posting style.

Duly noted. Carry on with your NRA platitude spouting.

What did he post that isn't correct? Did you not read the title of the thread?

 

[LuckyNed]

 

[22*43*51]

Responsible gun owners need to spin off from the NRA and start their own organization. One that isn't unwilling to have a discussion about gun violence in America.

There are plenty of other gun lobbies besides the NRA.

But, I wouldn't expect anyone who listens to the MSM to know that.

 

[Mattski]

That's a good one. I'd add in any violent offender loses their right to buy or own guns (define it as a violence based felony) for X number of years with a mandatory hearing before it's reinstated, and any drug dealing, some drug possession (meth, crack, a few others) and drunk driving conviction and it's suspended for X number of years with a hearing to reinstate.

Pretty much all of these are already in effect. Ignorance is bliss though huh?

 

[Mattski]

I didn't see it in Slieb's list, but I'll add one: If you have a restraining order against you by your ex-wife or girlfriend you must surrender your guns to the county sheriff until an evaluation is performed on your potential level of violence. Mass shootings get a lot of attention, and drug dealers wasting each other in Chicago, but, a pissed off man kills a woman every day of the year in this country.

Currently anyone convicted of domestic violence or with a restraining order based on the threat of violence are restricted from buying and owning guns. Both Federal laws that aren't always enforced as well as should be but another example of law already on the books that most don't realize.

 

[h-hawk]

There may have been a time long ago when the NRA was actually a gun owners' organization. But for years it has been nothing more than a lobbying group and propaganda center for gun manufacturers. We have heard the lies about what Obama intended to do with gun laws for years now. They did their job by increasing gun sales. The only thing the NRA protects these days are gun makers.

 

[lucas80]

There are plenty of other gun lobbies besides the NRA.

But, I wouldn't expect anyone who listens to the MSM to know that.

There are lots of organizations for lots of things. My point is the people who are uncomfortable with the no compromise model of the NRA should spin off. The NRA will fight to it's last breath to allow 9 year old to go full auto, or allow for noise suppression devices.
FYI, I am a gun owner. You might not buy it, but I have a long history with firearms. I just don't think it's a terrible idea to have a discussion about things. I don't accept 30,000 Americans dying on a yearly basis from guns.

 

[slieb85]

Pretty much all of these are already in effect. Ignorance is bliss though huh?

Nationally?

Also, did we just gloss over all those other ideas that were previously mentioned?

Ignorance is bliss, indeed.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Those hostile to firearms ownership and the Second Amendment think they are on the verge of victory, but in fact the anti second amendment crowd has managed to wake up millions of Americans who hadn't previously believed their government would ever threaten their guns or their way of life. They are now joined by others who were not necessarily gun owners but believed the Second Amendment and the rights it guaranteed a free people worth preserving.

The NRA will once again rescue this country from the knee jerk reaction crowd in the White House.

I'm a gun owner and a C&C permit holder, and I DESPISE the NRA.

 

[LuckyNed]

Everyone skips over the mental health issue, almost everyone of these shooters has a mental condition, why not require people with mental conditions to register and require them to check in with whatever agency is created to monitor those with Asperger's. Downs, ADHD, any type of mental disorder you register and check in regularly. Those who don't get incarcerated.

Face the facts, 188 million legal gun owners don't shoot people, those with mental issues do.

 

[naturalmwa]

Everyone skips over the mental health issue, almost everyone of these shooters has a mental condition, why not require people with mental conditions to register and require them to check in with whatever agency is created to monitor those with Asperger's. Downs, ADHD, any type of mental disorder you register and check in regularly. Those who don't get incarcerated.

Face the facts, 188 million legal gun owners don't shoot people, those with mental issues do.

Did you think this through before you posted it? If so, I'd love to hear more about how you want to register people by their medical conditions with the government. If you posted this in haste, read it over and let us know if it still makes sense after a 2nd look. TiA.

 

[LuckyNed]

Everyone skips over the mental health issue, almost everyone of these shooters has a mental condition, why not require people with mental conditions to register and require them to check in with whatever agency is created to monitor those with Asperger's. Downs, ADHD, any type of mental disorder you register and check in regularly. Those who don't get incarcerated.

Face the facts, 188 million legal gun owners don't shoot people, those with mental issues do.

Did you think this through before you posted it? If so, I'd love to hear more about how you want to register people by their medical conditions with the government. If you posted this in haste, read it over and let us know if it still makes sense after a 2nd look. TiA.

Absolutely support the idea if trampling the Constitution is on the table lets take a looksee at the real problem as I suggested.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Everyone skips over the mental health issue, almost everyone of these shooters has a mental condition, why not require people with mental conditions to register and require them to check in with whatever agency is created to monitor those with Asperger's. Downs, ADHD, any type of mental disorder you register and check in regularly. Those who don't get incarcerated.

Face the facts, 188 million legal gun owners don't shoot people, those with mental issues do.

No one is skipping over it. We've been discussing it endlessly.

And there are NOT 188 million legal gun owners. It's around 86 million.

 

[naturalmwa]

Absolutely support the idea if trampling the Constitution is on the table lets take a looksee at the real problem as I suggested.

Am I reading you correctly that you DO recognize that your plan would "trample the Constitution"? And yet you think it is still a defensible position to screen, monitor and "punish" (for lack of a better word) the health status of all Americans?

 

[LuckyNed]

Am I reading you correctly that you DO recognize that your plan would "trample the Constitution"? And yet you think it is still a defensible position to screen, monitor and "punish" (for lack of a better word) the health status of all Americans?[/QUOTE

My plan does not trample the Constitution show me where it would?

 

[naturalmwa]

My plan does not trample the Constitution show me where it would?

I'm hardly a constitutional expert, but I'll take a stab at it. Don't we have a constitutional right to be secure in our persons, papers and effects? By what right does the government get to know that you are bonkers? And by what right do they get to monitor your location and purchasing? And by what right do they get to imprison you if you buy a gun?

Those are just the civil rights issues I see. Then you have some real logistical problems. Now that you've made it so unpalatable to be diagnosed with any mental illness, who would ever seek treatment? And what do you think it will cost to monitor all these folks? About 18% of American adults suffer some form of mental illness in any one year. About 10% of kids have ADHD. Do we monitor a person for life after a diagnosis? Your plan is so bonkers, I think you might qualify for your own penalties which is why I tried to give you a chance to walk it back.

 

[LuckyNed]

 

[LuckyNed]

I'm hardly a constitutional expert, but I'll take a stab at it. Don't we have a constitutional right to be secure in our persons, papers and effects? By what right does the government get to know that you are bonkers? And by what right do they get to monitor your location and purchasing? And by what right do they get to imprison you if you buy a gun?

Those are just the civil rights issues I see. Then you have some real logistical problems. Now that you've made it so unpalatable to be diagnosed with any mental illness, who would ever seek treatment? And what do you think it will cost to monitor all these folks? About 18% of American adults suffer some form of mental illness in any one year. About 10% of kids have ADHD. Do we monitor a person for life after a diagnosis? Your plan is so bonkers, I think you might qualify for your own penalties which is why I tried to give you a chance to walk it back.

So you think the solution is to mask the problem by restricting firearms? Why not address the real cancer = mental illness?

 

[naturalmwa]

So you think the solution is to mask the problem by restricting firearms? Why not address the real cancer = mental illness?

I guess I have three responses. 1) I keep hearing how overall crime is way down and has been for decades so I'm not sure the problem isn't already wearing a mask. 2) I like addressing mental health. I think the best way to do that is through programs like the ACA, not locking them up. 3) You also want to restrict firearms for people you don't trust to handle them. That I agree with too. Did you forget this was part of your plan? I just don't want to criminalize crazy. Primarily because I don't want to support you.

 

[LuckyNed]