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Will officials ever be held accountable?

Are the folks in the video review booth part of the same pkg. as the officials...or a separate hire?
 
I can excuse an official getting a call wrong while they are making it live and at game speed. If it happens too often I have to question the ability of that official. What I have an issue with is the amount of replay calls that are completely wrong. Replay is supposed to fix the issues of missed/bad calls, not amplify them and make them even worse.
 
I know this has been discussed, but this is getting ridiculous. It seems to be getting worse every year.

Depends what you mean about accountable. If you mean are they judged/graded, and the worst performers are no longer used by conferences? Then yes, by that definition. If you mean publicly flogged or otherwise punished, then no.

I know that many people think that making college football referees and basketball officials full-time employees of the conferences or the NCAA is the panacea to fixing the problem. I don't necessarily agree. If that was done, the referees would collectively bargain/form a union, and once that started it would be much harder to get rid of bad referees. I'm generally pro-union, so don't want this to turn into a whole political discussion.

A few general observations about refereeing and fans' attitudes toward this:

  • The fact that every major college game is televised with multiple TV camera angles and HD has made literally every second of a basketball or football game seen in excruciating detail. In general, fans have much greater access to everything that happens on the field than 20+ years ago.
  • Related to this, it may seem like the officiating is worse than ever before, when in reality it's not, it's just more asy to see thanks to the camera angles and televising of every game. I don't know how one would quantify that officiating today is better/worse than 20 years ago. Some of it is that the athletes in football and basketball continue to get bigger, faster and better, so the speed of the game continues to keep up with.
  • The general attitude toward referees from the public is terrible. Things I have witnessed at the youth/high school level toward perceived or real poor officiating is stunning. It's one thing to boo as a fan when you've paid $100 to go to a major college sporting event. It's another when going to a third-grade basketball game where the ref is either a volunteer or a high school kid who is getting paid $20 or whatever. Again, this is unprovable but I think/believe this attitude impacts both the level of officiating at higher levels and fans' attitudes toward games. Fewer refs/officials will work at the lower levels due to the abuse heaped on them by fans/parents. This means fewer opportunities for refs to turn out to be really good who end up being promoted to the higher levels.
  • Finally, replay. I still like having replay than not having it, but where replay gets it wrong is straying from the stated goal of using it to change things where there is irrefutable video evidence. Start from the premise of what the call on the field was, and when in doubt stick with the call on the field. What has happened is that the replay officials seem to be looking for things that aren't there. The change from fumble to incomplete pass in the Iowa-USC game and the call in the Ohio State game are great examples of that. And of the "no-catch" ruling by Ragaini in the Nebraska game. The calls on the field in those instances were not refuted by replay.
 
Depends what you mean about accountable. If you mean are they judged/graded, and the worst performers are no longer used by conferences? Then yes, by that definition. If you mean publicly flogged or otherwise punished, then no.

I know that many people think that making college football referees and basketball officials full-time employees of the conferences or the NCAA is the panacea to fixing the problem. I don't necessarily agree. If that was done, the referees would collectively bargain/form a union, and once that started it would be much harder to get rid of bad referees. I'm generally pro-union, so don't want this to turn into a whole political discussion.

A few general observations about refereeing and fans' attitudes toward this:

  • The fact that every major college game is televised with multiple TV camera angles and HD has made literally every second of a basketball or football game seen in excruciating detail. In general, fans have much greater access to everything that happens on the field than 20+ years ago.
  • Related to this, it may seem like the officiating is worse than ever before, when in reality it's not, it's just more asy to see thanks to the camera angles and televising of every game. I don't know how one would quantify that officiating today is better/worse than 20 years ago. Some of it is that the athletes in football and basketball continue to get bigger, faster and better, so the speed of the game continues to keep up with.
  • The general attitude toward referees from the public is terrible. Things I have witnessed at the youth/high school level toward perceived or real poor officiating is stunning. It's one thing to boo as a fan when you've paid $100 to go to a major college sporting event. It's another when going to a third-grade basketball game where the ref is either a volunteer or a high school kid who is getting paid $20 or whatever. Again, this is unprovable but I think/believe this attitude impacts both the level of officiating at higher levels and fans' attitudes toward games. Fewer refs/officials will work at the lower levels due to the abuse heaped on them by fans/parents. This means fewer opportunities for refs to turn out to be really good who end up being promoted to the higher levels.
  • Finally, replay. I still like having replay than not having it, but where replay gets it wrong is straying from the stated goal of using it to change things where there is irrefutable video evidence. Start from the premise of what the call on the field was, and when in doubt stick with the call on the field. What has happened is that the replay officials seem to be looking for things that aren't there. The change from fumble to incomplete pass in the Iowa-USC game and the call in the Ohio State game are great examples of that. And of the "no-catch" ruling by Ragaini in the Nebraska game. The calls on the field in those instances were not refuted by replay.
one of the best posts of the year .
 
How do you know they are not now? You keeping track of which official made each alleged bad call, and their career path from there?
 
Depends what you mean about accountable. If you mean are they judged/graded, and the worst performers are no longer used by conferences? Then yes, by that definition. If you mean publicly flogged or otherwise punished, then no.

I know that many people think that making college football referees and basketball officials full-time employees of the conferences or the NCAA is the panacea to fixing the problem. I don't necessarily agree. If that was done, the referees would collectively bargain/form a union, and once that started it would be much harder to get rid of bad referees. I'm generally pro-union, so don't want this to turn into a whole political discussion.

A few general observations about refereeing and fans' attitudes toward this:

  • The fact that every major college game is televised with multiple TV camera angles and HD has made literally every second of a basketball or football game seen in excruciating detail. In general, fans have much greater access to everything that happens on the field than 20+ years ago.
  • Related to this, it may seem like the officiating is worse than ever before, when in reality it's not, it's just more asy to see thanks to the camera angles and televising of every game. I don't know how one would quantify that officiating today is better/worse than 20 years ago. Some of it is that the athletes in football and basketball continue to get bigger, faster and better, so the speed of the game continues to keep up with.
  • The general attitude toward referees from the public is terrible. Things I have witnessed at the youth/high school level toward perceived or real poor officiating is stunning. It's one thing to boo as a fan when you've paid $100 to go to a major college sporting event. It's another when going to a third-grade basketball game where the ref is either a volunteer or a high school kid who is getting paid $20 or whatever. Again, this is unprovable but I think/believe this attitude impacts both the level of officiating at higher levels and fans' attitudes toward games. Fewer refs/officials will work at the lower levels due to the abuse heaped on them by fans/parents. This means fewer opportunities for refs to turn out to be really good who end up being promoted to the higher levels.
  • Finally, replay. I still like having replay than not having it, but where replay gets it wrong is straying from the stated goal of using it to change things where there is irrefutable video evidence. Start from the premise of what the call on the field was, and when in doubt stick with the call on the field. What has happened is that the replay officials seem to be looking for things that aren't there. The change from fumble to incomplete pass in the Iowa-USC game and the call in the Ohio State game are great examples of that. And of the "no-catch" ruling by Ragaini in the Nebraska game. The calls on the field in those instances were not refuted by replay.

I think this all starts with the way that a lot of coaches treat officials during games. Fans see this and think it's ok to do the same. I think officials tolerate waayyyy too much "stuff" from coaches and would fully support more penalties and ejections for bad behavior toward officials. Start tossing guys from games and you'd see a quick modification in behavior.
 
How do you know they are not now? You keeping track of which official made each alleged bad call, and their career path from there?
The English Dictionary is all you need. Definition of Indisputable. Crazy how many Replay Officials rule opposite of the experts. USC game was bad. The Nebraska game was incomprehensible as to how pathetic the Replay Officials were.
 
I can excuse an official getting a call wrong while they are making it live and at game speed. If it happens too often I have to question the ability of that official. What I have an issue with is the amount of replay calls that are completely wrong. Replay is supposed to fix the issues of missed/bad calls, not amplify them and make them even worse.
Exactly. Also, 3-4 minute repay delays are killing natural game flow.

Suggested remedy: 45 second replay reviews. If they can't find an error in that amount of time (3-4 replays), the call on the field stands.

Obvious miscalls get overturned, close calls stand, and players don't have to stand waiting for an extended period of time. The long delays are starting to drive me crazy.
 
I like the suggestion I've seen that the officials view replays on the jumbotron at regular speed.

The original intent was to fix obvious errors. Those should be obvious at regular speed.
 
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It's not so much the bad or missed on field calls.... I agree it's the replay officials... In our bowl game, Joel Klatt said it right, "The point of the replay is not to re-officiate the play, it is there to confirm the call"

That's what's wrong with replay now, they are re-officiating the play when in that case, what's the point of having an on-field call. If it takes more than 1 minute to review a play, when everybody at home and the announcers already have their minds made up after 1 minute of review, then the call stands. It's just that the replay officials are trying to find angles and zooms to try to justify what they think happened.
 
I think this all starts with the way that a lot of coaches treat officials during games. Fans see this and think it's ok to do the same. I think officials tolerate waayyyy too much "stuff" from coaches and would fully support more penalties and ejections for bad behavior toward officials. Start tossing guys from games and you'd see a quick modification in behavior.
I guess in Fran's case you could make that argument that the refs may not like him, although he's been much calmer for the most part this season. You rarely ever see KF go off on an official unless its really bad, and yet we certainly don't seem to get the benefit of the doubt on any calls, but maybe its just me and my black and gold glasses..
 
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The Ohio State scoop and score was a blatant....eff up. In baseball, a ball or strike Moses could cost a game, play off, or World Series. It about cost Kyle Hendriks
 
I did find it interesting when the announcer started talking about the officials being downgraded for the “illegal” chop block vs Iowa.
 
I know this has been discussed, but this is getting ridiculous. It seems to be getting worse every year.
It's a joke the number of replays ... overturns ... non-overturns ... targeting ... non-targeting ... catch ... no catch ... there's no consistency. Even the guest "expert" refs are wrong about half the time in guessing the outcome of a replay. It's really cut into the flow of the game ... and every game you get different results ... Serious issues to address.
 
Depends what you mean about accountable. If you mean are they judged/graded, and the worst performers are no longer used by conferences? Then yes, by that definition. If you mean publicly flogged or otherwise punished, then no.

I know that many people think that making college football referees and basketball officials full-time employees of the conferences or the NCAA is the panacea to fixing the problem. I don't necessarily agree. If that was done, the referees would collectively bargain/form a union, and once that started it would be much harder to get rid of bad referees. I'm generally pro-union, so don't want this to turn into a whole political discussion.

A few general observations about refereeing and fans' attitudes toward this:

  • The fact that every major college game is televised with multiple TV camera angles and HD has made literally every second of a basketball or football game seen in excruciating detail. In general, fans have much greater access to everything that happens on the field than 20+ years ago.
  • Related to this, it may seem like the officiating is worse than ever before, when in reality it's not, it's just more asy to see thanks to the camera angles and televising of every game. I don't know how one would quantify that officiating today is better/worse than 20 years ago. Some of it is that the athletes in football and basketball continue to get bigger, faster and better, so the speed of the game continues to keep up with.
  • The general attitude toward referees from the public is terrible. Things I have witnessed at the youth/high school level toward perceived or real poor officiating is stunning. It's one thing to boo as a fan when you've paid $100 to go to a major college sporting event. It's another when going to a third-grade basketball game where the ref is either a volunteer or a high school kid who is getting paid $20 or whatever. Again, this is unprovable but I think/believe this attitude impacts both the level of officiating at higher levels and fans' attitudes toward games. Fewer refs/officials will work at the lower levels due to the abuse heaped on them by fans/parents. This means fewer opportunities for refs to turn out to be really good who end up being promoted to the higher levels.
  • Finally, replay. I still like having replay than not having it, but where replay gets it wrong is straying from the stated goal of using it to change things where there is irrefutable video evidence. Start from the premise of what the call on the field was, and when in doubt stick with the call on the field. What has happened is that the replay officials seem to be looking for things that aren't there. The change from fumble to incomplete pass in the Iowa-USC game and the call in the Ohio State game are great examples of that. And of the "no-catch" ruling by Ragaini in the Nebraska game. The calls on the field in those instances were not refuted by replay.
I will say though, if you know what to look for, you can point out the poor refs pretty easily, especially at the high school/"barely certified" levels.

Or I should say....the ones who are just there for the 30 minute exercise and a small paycheck.
 
The English Dictionary is all you need. Definition of Indisputable. Crazy how many Replay Officials rule opposite of the experts. USC game was bad. The Nebraska game was incomprehensible as to how pathetic the Replay Officials were.

But how do you know they won’t be “held accountable”?
 
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The English Dictionary is all you need. Definition of Indisputable. Crazy how many Replay Officials rule opposite of the experts. USC game was bad. The Nebraska game was incomprehensible as to how pathetic the Replay Officials were.

The PSU game earlier this year. Both Iowa and PSU had replays that were obviously incorrect.
 
Players and coaches are maligned in public for mistakes, or perceived mistakes. Refs are not. If 18-22 year-olds have to explain themselves to the press after games, why don't adult refs have to do the same? I've always found that discrepancy to be illogical. Playing is more difficult than watching (reffing).
 
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I'd like to see sports evolve in a direction that uses technology to replace human judgement in officiating. Sensors in the ball and field, infrared cameras and rule changes to eliminate the need to judge if a play was made.

I agree with better technology for football. A chip in the ball, better cameras to see the ball carrier within a scrum, etc. I think there will still be controversy though as nobody knows what the hell a catch is anymore or targeting. It completely changes from game to game, most likely depending on the need of that particular game. That’s got to stop whether we inject technology or not.

For baseball, I’m not a fan of the technology. Maybe I’m stubborn with the purity of the game, but baseball is a lot slower paced and a lot easier to officiate than football and especially basketball. If you can’t consistently set a strike zone or miss calls on the bases, then you’ve got no business in that profession. I don’t think there is any shortage of major league umpires in the waiting.
 
I was surprised at how bias they were against BIG teams. OSU got hosed, many of the calls vs Wiscy were crap (they lost due to turnovers).

When the announcers repeatedly sound befuddled by the refs call and then more so by the reviews response...sad year for officiating.

Anyone think the legalizing of betting on college fball made an impact?
 
I was surprised at how bias they were against BIG teams. OSU got hosed, many of the calls vs Wiscy were crap (they lost due to turnovers).

When the announcers repeatedly sound befuddled by the refs call and then more so by the reviews response...sad year for officiating.

Anyone think the legalizing of betting on college fball made an impact?

*biased
 
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I agree with better technology for football. A chip in the ball, better cameras to see the ball carrier within a scrum, etc. I think there will still be controversy though as nobody knows what the hell a catch is anymore or targeting. It completely changes from game to game, most likely depending on the need of that particular game. That’s got to stop whether we inject technology or not.

For baseball, I’m not a fan of the technology. Maybe I’m stubborn with the purity of the game, but baseball is a lot slower paced and a lot easier to officiate than football and especially basketball. If you can’t consistently set a strike zone or miss calls on the bases, then you’ve got no business in that profession. I don’t think there is any shortage of major league umpires in the waiting.
I particularly dislike the judgment calls around catching the ball in football. I’d like the rules to change to favor possession of the ball. However the ball ends up in the player’s hands, it’s their ball at that spot if they have the ball in hand when the whistle blows. Incomplete passes just become fumbles that either team could jump on. Trapping the ball against the ground becomes a legal move.
 
I don't. But the OP entitled the thread, "Will officials ever be held accountable", clearly suggesting he believes they are not now. I want to know why he believes this.
He probably believes it because mistakes continue to be made.

I, for one, would like to ask the Officials committee why it's so hard to call offensive holding on Iowa's opponents.

"Well, we're human. We make mistakes and can't see everything, and besides if we call holding on every play the game would take FOREVER."

Huh, that's funny..........I always thought the rules were...ya know.....actual f***ing rules moreso than guidelines, as you referees seem to think they are most of the time.

How about that?........


But to your point, I am sure they get reviewed. And they are either commended or reprimanded accordingly, but internally, because protecting the integrity of the officials is the utmost priority.....................o_O

However, I don't buy into this notion that we, as fans, can sit there and chastise coaches, and athletic department officials, and even players/student-athletes, and hell even other fans and fanbases...............but there's something almost taboo about complaining too much about the referees/umpires.

Why?

I mean yeah, people talk about blown calls and they can say this game or that game was poorly officiated, but more often than not it gets dropped the day after and there always seems to be some kind of uneasiness in the discussion about the officials and missed/bad calls.

I contribute that to the fact that most people just have no f***ing clue as to what the thought process is towards the decision-making and interpretation of the rules that goes on with these officials, which goes back to the "protecting the integrity of the officials" idea. They don't answer for their mistakes save for the Conference offices coming out days later and saying "Sorry, the crew or certain officials in that game maybe probably almost certainly did f*** up............so you, uh.....you want a cookie to cheer you up?

Sincerely,
Head of Conference Officials Mr. Thanks-For-Nothing-A**hole
"

It's like great, they messed up. Some of them might get suspended or demoted. Okay, cool.....how does that fix the problem? And you can't give us wins and losses because of it. What's gonna change so that "other" officials don't make the same mistakes?

The only time I've EVER seen an official publicly step forward after a contest and admit that he made an error was when that pitcher for the Detroit Tigers had a perfect game, and the umpire blew the call at 1st base a few years back. The ump addressed the media after the game, breaking down even as he admitted that he got the call wrong and cost the kid a place in history. In fact, I believe he even caught flak internally from the League for doing that because, after all "protecting the integrity of the officials".

But I would still like to know why we can't complain about the refs like we get away with complaining about everything else involved in a sport?......
 
I would agree with you. However, high schools need those crappy refs due to a lack of people willing to put up with it.

I will say though, if you know what to look for, you can point out the poor refs pretty easily, especially at the high school/"barely certified" levels.

Or I should say....the ones who are just there for the 30 minute exercise and a small paycheck.
 
I would agree with you. However, high schools need those crappy refs due to a lack of people willing to out up with it.
It's really not that hard if you take the time to know wtf you're doing.

I once reffed a couple high school scrimmages....by myself.

Point being, not to brag, but if these people just took the time to understand the rules....and/OR f***ing enforce them....then they wouldn't receive even half the guff that they do. A lot of it is about confidence and actually giving a sh**, because it is VERY easy to spot those that don't.
 
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That's just it....we know players aren't going to play a perfect game, coaches aren't going to call a perfect, yet we're left believing the officials continually call perfect games.
 
Put a timer on replay. If you don’t know within 30-45 seconds of looking, stick with the call on the field. If it takes longer, you’re looking for something that isn’t there

Agree. If you can't see it quickly, then stick with the call on the field.
 
He probably believes it because mistakes continue to be made.

I, for one, would like to ask the Officials committee why it's so hard to call offensive holding on Iowa's opponents.

"Well, we're human. We make mistakes and can't see everything, and besides if we call holding on every play the game would take FOREVER."

Huh, that's funny..........I always thought the rules were...ya know.....actual f***ing rules moreso than guidelines, as you referees seem to think they are most of the time.

How about that?........


But to your point, I am sure they get reviewed. And they are either commended or reprimanded accordingly, but internally, because protecting the integrity of the officials is the utmost priority.....................o_O

However, I don't buy into this notion that we, as fans, can sit there and chastise coaches, and athletic department officials, and even players/student-athletes, and hell even other fans and fanbases...............but there's something almost taboo about complaining too much about the referees/umpires.

Why?

I mean yeah, people talk about blown calls and they can say this game or that game was poorly officiated, but more often than not it gets dropped the day after and there always seems to be some kind of uneasiness in the discussion about the officials and missed/bad calls.

I contribute that to the fact that most people just have no f***ing clue as to what the thought process is towards the decision-making and interpretation of the rules that goes on with these officials, which goes back to the "protecting the integrity of the officials" idea. They don't answer for their mistakes save for the Conference offices coming out days later and saying "Sorry, the crew or certain officials in that game maybe probably almost certainly did f*** up............so you, uh.....you want a cookie to cheer you up?

Sincerely,
Head of Conference Officials Mr. Thanks-For-Nothing-A**hole
"

It's like great, they messed up. Some of them might get suspended or demoted. Okay, cool.....how does that fix the problem? And you can't give us wins and losses because of it. What's gonna change so that "other" officials don't make the same mistakes?

The only time I've EVER seen an official publicly step forward after a contest and admit that he made an error was when that pitcher for the Detroit Tigers had a perfect game, and the umpire blew the call at 1st base a few years back. The ump addressed the media after the game, breaking down even as he admitted that he got the call wrong and cost the kid a place in history. In fact, I believe he even caught flak internally from the League for doing that because, after all "protecting the integrity of the officials".

But I would still like to know why we can't complain about the refs like we get away with complaining about everything else involved in a sport?......

There is no one saying fans can't complain about officials. Especially at major college sporting events or pro events. We can boo at games, discuss it here, etc.

I do think it would be helpful if the referee in a football game or the head official in a basketball game answered a few questions afterward, even just to a pool reporter. The good refs or officials will admit to coaches in games if they missed something, most coaches will respect that answer.
 
I think this all starts with the way that a lot of coaches treat officials during games. Fans see this and think it's ok to do the same. I think officials tolerate waayyyy too much "stuff" from coaches and would fully support more penalties and ejections for bad behavior toward officials. Start tossing guys from games and you'd see a quick modification in behavior.

I generally like the stance of not throwing coaches out. The point is to keep the coach in the game if possible, not to have the focus on the officiating, which immediately happens if a coach is tossed. Refs also don't want to be known for tossing coaches out as the conference will get feedback from coaches to not have them work games.

But I generally agree with your premise that the officials (especially in basketball) put up with way more than they probably should.
 
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Whoever said that fans see coaches do it, so it must be ok behavior was spot on. Watching the Minn game this week, Fleck was going off on an official, you could see obvious F-bombs coming out of his mouth, and just destroying the sideline judge about a timing/clock issue, WHILE the head official was reviewing it. The officials reviewed it, and went to both Auburn and Minnie, and said it was correct, and then Fleck just sort of clapped his hands twice and sort of moved on. Why wasn't the official allowed to go over to Fleck and F-bomb him a few times for being an idiot and not knowing what the h@ll he was talking about....(I know of course). But, seems like you can hold coaches accountable too, can't you?

And as for "it is easy", especially in HS sports, last year, between 60-70% of new officials did NOT come back after their first year (based on treatment by parents and coaches), yet more and more officials are retiring, so there is a HUGE need for officials in all sports! Get involved!! Pick a sport, learn some and take a test, and help!
 
Whoever said that fans see coaches do it, so it must be ok behavior was spot on. Watching the Minn game this week, Fleck was going off on an official, you could see obvious F-bombs coming out of his mouth, and just destroying the sideline judge about a timing/clock issue, WHILE the head official was reviewing it. The officials reviewed it, and went to both Auburn and Minnie, and said it was correct, and then Fleck just sort of clapped his hands twice and sort of moved on. Why wasn't the official allowed to go over to Fleck and F-bomb him a few times for being an idiot and not knowing what the h@ll he was talking about....(I know of course). But, seems like you can hold coaches accountable too, can't you?

And as for "it is easy", especially in HS sports, last year, between 60-70% of new officials did NOT come back after their first year (based on treatment by parents and coaches), yet more and more officials are retiring, so there is a HUGE need for officials in all sports! Get involved!! Pick a sport, learn some and take a test, and help!
To be fair to Fleck, he smiled, shook the official’s hand after the call was corrected, and either apologized or praised the ref for getting it right
 
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