WIN Magazine's rankings 9/2/15
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Ouch indeed! Or did I mean bummer................
The Gophers won't finish 29th. Okie State in their one HORRIBLE year finished 17th I think. I could see the Gophs 10-15 or thereabouts without some very good fortune (or maybe with depending on your perspective I suppose).
That's how I see it. A lot of true and redshirt freshman have done serious damage over the past two years. I don't expect this year to be different.
Storley never redshirted and lizak wrestled as a true fr this past season
Yeah, but remember when the twins were freshmen and everybody was annointing them both as 4X AAs and likely multiple National champs for PSU? How did that end up? Lots of stuff can happen.
Four team titles in their five years in the program. Excellent cautionary tale ....
The discussion was in reference to highly touted FRESHMEN and their contributions. I was specifically talking about the Altons. Keep up!
Never quite understood the Lizak move. Middle of the year and not ready for prime time. I thought it was a wasted year.
I'll never forget what Gilman did to Lizak last year at the Minny Duel. That whooping he put on him was brutal to say the least. I actually felt sorry for the kid (Lizak) He clearly wasn't ready for the big boys
As we all know, last season was supposed to be the year for the Gophers. J pushed all his chips to the center to put the best possible team out and that included Lizak. I'm sure most Hawk fans want TnT to put the best team out this year. Even if it includes a freshman that would have been better off individually from a rs.
Wrong.. putting out the "best" team sometimes is not worth it. It certainly was not in minnys case this year. Even with out the help of hindsight, everyone had a pretty good idea this kid was not ready to score points at ncaas.. If a true freshman is not going to be in the title hunt (or aa) Im sure most fans would be ok not putting the "best" team out there.
At iowa one year Dsj was by far the best guy at 57. . Tom still red-shirted him and we won a very close race at ncaas that year. A lot of factors come into play, and I understand there are times you pull kids, but for the life of me I cannot think of why minny pulled him last year. Very deep, experienced, weight class, undersized, under skilled, no real chance to aa..
I'm not sure about this but I remember hearing that the other guys for minny at 125 just couldn't make the weight.
Even if Lizak would not score points at nationals, he could still make them a better team and maybe lead them to that all important National Duals championship . . . oh, never mind, that didn't work out either.
A real shot at a team title is not worth wrestling a true freshman that may get you a few points?
Your opinion but with three 125lb freshman (similar talent levels) all redshirting, incumbent 125 unable to make 125 and thinking you have a great shot at a team title maybe it would have been best to not pull that trigger. If the Gophers wind up not qualifying the weight and losing the title by a single point, I'm sure you would have still agreed with the decision.
Most college wrestlers don't start and its no guarantee Lizak ever wins the spot again. If either of the 3 frosh 125s from last year never make the lineup in their careers, I'm sure they would look back and thank J for not even allowing them the chance to help the team win a national title their freshman year because it wouldn't have been "worth it"
Worth what I'm not sure because I'm still trying to figure out what the Gophers were risking by not redshirting Lizak last year. Maybe you can explain what they lost by wagering possibly getting a few points at an NCAAs they thought they could win.
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Because he wasn't projected to even AA, he probably should have been redshirted.
Lizak did go 2-2 at Nationals. He improved greatly by the end of the year.
What they lose is a year of the kid's eligibility, four years down the line when he's more likely to score significant points.
Personally, I think it's probably the toughest call a coach has to make. I assume most discuss it in-depth with the wrestler before pulling the trigger, and I assume they let the kid have some input into the decision.
Zain Retherford wrestled at 141 for PSU as a true freshman. He finished 5th and without his contribution
PSU would not have won the title. Nico finished 2nd as a true freshman in an earlier PSU championship year.
Sometimes the young guys have to step up.
PSU would not have won the title. Nico finished 2nd as a true freshman in an earlier PSU championship year.
Sometimes the young guys have to step up.
I'm pretty sure dsj redshirted in 2010 and that year was not close, we won by 44.5 points.
He can still take a redshirt and wrestle that 4th year with same likelihood of scoring those points as if he had redshirted the 1st year. As a matter of fact if he takes that redshirt this season what was lost is points scored this season. Between this and last which season do you think Lizaks points potentially help his team most?
With 2 others at 125 already redshirting and the kid on board with it, not that tough a call. Non AA/ and low to no point scoring freshman start in every year. Why not one that could possibly help you win a team title?
Let me adjust that. You lose a year of future eligibility at some point in the future, when the kid will be older and presumably more likely to score significant points for you. You asked "what is there to lose" and that is the answer. It's a risk vs reward decision; your initial post seemed to suggest there is zero risk.
Getting wiped by Gilman does not mean he was unprepared to wrestle. 2-2 at Nationals proves he had value. Even with hindsight, it was a good and bold move by J-Rob. Lord knows it may have been their only chance for a title in the next ten years.
In today's NCAA climate you need to have freshman (or RS freshman) who can step in and score significant points immediately to win an NCAA team title. Every NCAA Championship team in the last 5 years has had at least one. That's why the Lee's and Hall's of the world are so important. You can no longer afford to develop a guy for 2-3 years before he is scoring major points at NCAA's. Unless you are pulling in top talent (and not missing on it) you will be behind the ball.
I was thinking the same think, like when Brancale pancaked Gilman TWICE!
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Any wrestler at any time can get caught and it was obvious TG had a bad day. I got money on TG all day every day should they meet again and it won't be close!
And add in the six 125ers on the roster with more arriving, some guys may never see the starting lineup. Plus, there's no guarantee that Lizak will even ever start again as several teammates are at an equal level to him. It was a no brainer for Lizak to jump at the chance.
FWIW: The Altons best years were as freshman. AAlton was R12 as a true FR [very tough weight class that year IIRC] and DAlton took 3rd in his r-FR year.
They did contribute as freshman. They fizzled out afterwards, for whatever reasons.
