Workers at a Tallahassee coffee shop went on strike. The owner closed the shop permanently....

WhiteSoxClone

HR Legend
May 29, 2001
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No coffee shop that is popular with college kids is ever going to make much money. I used to buy a $3 coffee and sit and study in the coffee shop for hours taking up table space. Sometimes I wouldn't even buy anything. That's embarrassing to me now, but at the time I thought nothing of it. The shops in Iowa City were full of college kids doing the same thing.

$7/hr is terrible, I can't believe there are still places where that is the minimum wage.
 
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Hoosierhawkeye

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Sep 16, 2008
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LOL, no.

How is it possible that employers are required to retain disgruntled, bad attitude, unengaged employees because they're unionized? That's the most insane crapola ever.

And to make matters worse, employers have to pay the good employees that go above and beyond the same rate of pay as the biggest slacker on the shop floor. Seniority is the only acceptable reason to have different rates of pay for doing the same job. Productivity or quality? Nope.

That's garbage.

And those productive workers would still get paid less working for a non-union outfit.

And employers can usually get rid of bad employees if they want to, it just takes more paperwork to do it. If getting rid of them isn't worth the paperwork I guess they where not all that bad.

And honestly it should not be simply that easy to deprive someone of their income.
 

The Tradition

HR King
Apr 23, 2002
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And those productive workers would still get paid less working for a non-union outfit.

And employers can usually get rid of bad employees if they want to, it just takes more paperwork to do it. If getting rid of them isn't worth the paperwork I guess they where not all that bad.

And honestly it should not be simply that easy to deprive someone of their income.

It is an employees' market right now. They should vote with their feet and work somewhere else instead of destroying their employer by going on strike.
 
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mnole03

HR Legend
Mar 20, 2005
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No coffee shop that is popular with college kids is ever going to make much money. I used to buy a $3 coffee and sit and study in the coffee shop for hours taking up table space. Sometimes I wouldn't even buy anything. That's embarrassing to me now, but at the time I thought nothing of it. The shops in Iowa City were full of college kids doing the same thing.

$7/hr is terrible, I can't believe there are still places where that is the minimum wage.
And the owner wanted them to rely on tips from college students.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

HR Legend
Sep 16, 2008
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It is an employees' market right now. They should vote with their feet and work somewhere else instead of destroying their employer by going on strike.

It all would have worked out the same either way. Their employer wouldn't be able to get anyone to work for his shit wages so he would have shut down the business.

However unions help quite a bit in times when it's not an employee's market which was basically all of my life until about 1 year ago.
 

seminole97

HR Legend
Jun 14, 2005
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I have no outrage at all for either side here. Workers didn’t feel like they were getting a fair shake, so they took the action they thought they had to take…..the business did the same. In the end, everyone loses a little bit, but that’s no reason why the workers should have to simply stay for the pay/conditions they weren’t happy with.
If you don’t want to go to a job anymore, don’t go.

But I disagree with the notion that existing employees are entitled to a monopoly on the labor supply to a business.
 

The Tradition

HR King
Apr 23, 2002
114,595
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No coffee shop that is popular with college kids is ever going to make much money. I used to buy a $3 coffee and sit and study in the coffee shop for hours taking up table space. Sometimes I wouldn't even buy anything. That's embarrassing to me now, but at the time I thought nothing of it. The shops in Iowa City were full of college kids doing the same thing.

$7/hr is terrible, I can't believe there are still places where that is the minimum wage.

Florida tipped employees must exceed the standard minimum wage of $10 per hour each week. If the tips + wage don't exceed that amount, then the employer must make up the difference.

Note: That's going to $11 per hour on September 30th.
 

lucas80

HR King
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Jan 30, 2008
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It's so funny watching the liberals circle the wagons on this subject.

Here's a dirty little secret for you: Unions are BIG BUSINESSES! And their business is to acquire more dues-paying members.

But somehow you anti-business people ignore that and romanticize unions destroying businesses that actually contribute to society.
Well, we are circling the wagons while laughing at you.
 
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lucas80

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If you can’t afford to pay your employees a fair wage, then that’s what you should do…admit your business is a failure and go do something else.

Justifying paying crap wages by saying businesses would close is just stupid. There are plenty of jobs and plenty of other coffee places, the good ones will thrive. That’s capitalism.
I have found over the years that the folks who come on HROT to swagger around like Trad know the least about capitalism, and are least equipped, or least inclined, to survive in a capitalist work environment.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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If you don’t want to go to a job anymore, don’t go.

But I disagree with the notion that existing employees are entitled to a monopoly on the labor supply to a business.

Why not? Business have always been entitled to have a monopoly on our futures. Most of us have to work to eat.

Unions simply even up the negotiating leverage and introduces some pain to the business for failing to reach a pay agreement. It also evens up workers pay so businesses can't secretly under pay some workers because we culturally have a problem with discussing our incomes.
 

The Tradition

HR King
Apr 23, 2002
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I have found over the years that the folks who come on HROT to swagger around like Trad know the least about capitalism, and are least equipped, or least inclined, to survive in a capitalist work environment.

Derpity derp derp derp.
 

HawkMachine

HR All-American
Jul 6, 2020
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You better be somewhat irreplaceable to go on strike.

Looking at the group, they all seem pretty replaceable.

Lastly, THEY SERVE COFFEE FFS.
 

hawkifann

HR Legend
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Oct 5, 2001
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If you don’t want to go to a job anymore, don’t go.

But I disagree with the notion that existing employees are entitled to a monopoly on the labor supply to a business.
They don’t - until the point where the business recognizes the union.

I’ve never been a member of a union, but businesses have often had a leg up in power in the relationship with employees, so I have no real issue with employees coming together to increase their bargaining power.
 

The Tradition

HR King
Apr 23, 2002
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They don’t - until the point where the business recognizes the union.

I’ve never been a member of a union, but businesses have often had a leg up in power in the relationship with employees, so I have no real issue with employees coming together to increase their bargaining power.

In any other context that would be called "collusion"....
 
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hawkifann

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In any other context that would be called "collusion"....
Not really. It’s no different than a big company setting a market price because they’re the biggest buyer in a certain product space…..or do you think every McDonald’s franchisee should negotiate for the price of their own beef and buns?
 

seminole97

HR Legend
Jun 14, 2005
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Why not? Business have always been entitled to have a monopoly on our futures. Most of us have to work to eat.
In what sense does any ‘business’ hold a monopoly on your future?
You’re always free to start your own business if you don’t appreciate any other opportunities available.
Significant trade offs to running a business vs being an employee.

Unions simply even up the negotiating leverage and introduces some pain to the business for failing to reach a pay agreement. It also evens up workers pay so businesses can't secretly under pay some workers because we culturally have a problem with discussing our incomes.
Why should worker pay be equal if their output isn’t?
 

RileyHawk

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Aug 21, 2002
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LOL, no.

How is it possible that employers are required to retain disgruntled, bad attitude, unengaged employees because they're unionized? That's the most insane crapola ever.

And to make matters worse, employers have to pay the good employees that go above and beyond the same rate of pay as the biggest slacker on the shop floor. Seniority is the only acceptable reason to have different rates of pay for doing the same job. Productivity or quality? Nope.

That's garbage.
You're an absolute idiot on the subject. I mean completely ignorant. JFC.
 
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Hoosierhawkeye

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Sep 16, 2008
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In what sense does any ‘business’ hold a monopoly on your future?
You’re always free to start your own business if you don’t appreciate any other opportunities available.
Significant trade offs to running a business vs being an employee.


Why should worker pay be equal if their output isn’t?

Not everyone has the capital to start a business in which they could put to use their skills.

As for the second question you are right in a perfect world with 100% transparency. But we have 0% transparency. I have no way of knowing how productive my co-workers are nor of knowing what their pay is because talking about these things in our culture is considered rude. So because of this lack of transparency it's easy for a business to under pay an employee because they are simply due to their financial situation more desperate for the job.
 

tarheelbybirth

HR King
Apr 17, 2003
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LOL, no.

How is it possible that employers are required to retain disgruntled, bad attitude, unengaged employees because they're unionized? That's the most insane crapola ever.

And to make matters worse, employers have to pay the good employees that go above and beyond the same rate of pay as the biggest slacker on the shop floor. Seniority is the only acceptable reason to have different rates of pay for doing the same job. Productivity or quality? Nope.

That's garbage.
You are full of shit. I worked in a union shop. Teamsters Local 391 at Fairchild/Burns. There was a clear path by which workers could be terminated. I knew people who were terminated. You do not have a f'n clue what you're talking about or you're lying. Pick one or the other.
 
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Kinnick.At.Night

HR Legend
Jun 27, 2018
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Of course right wingers hate that.

I dislike my union, but it’s not because of how I view it politically. I see, first hand, how much it allows lazy, incompetent and dangerous workers to keep their jobs. Being fired at my company means taking a six month vacation and coming back. With back pay. People who support unions point out how much they do for their members in regard to pay, vacation and benefits. Ok, yeah, I agree with that. But, the thing is, there are a zillion non-Union jobs that are competitive in all of those areas that I could pursue. My union isn’t blessing me with a great career. It’s simply keeping me from going somewhere else.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

HR Legend
Sep 16, 2008
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I dislike my union, but it’s not because of how I view it politically. I see, first hand, how much it allows lazy, incompetent and dangerous workers to keep their jobs. Being fired at my company means taking a six month vacation and coming back. With back pay. People who support unions point out how much they do for their members in regard to pay, vacation and benefits. Ok, yeah, I agree with that. But, the thing is, there are a zillion non-Union jobs that are competitive in all of those areas that I could pursue. My union isn’t blessing me with a great career. It’s simply keeping me from going somewhere else.

How is it keeping you from going somewhere else. I don't know of any union that makes you a member for life.
 
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tarheelbybirth

HR King
Apr 17, 2003
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I dislike my union, but it’s not because of how I view it politically. I see, first hand, how much it allows lazy, incompetent and dangerous workers to keep their jobs. Being fired at my company means taking a six month vacation and coming back. With back pay. People who support unions point out how much they do for their members in regard to pay, vacation and benefits. Ok, yeah, I agree with that. But, the thing is, there are a zillion non-Union jobs that are competitive in all of those areas that I could pursue. My union isn’t blessing me with a great career. It’s simply keeping me from going somewhere else.
Well, the good news is that all of those non-union places are stuffed full of dedicated, do-anything-the-boss-says workers who will take slave wages and still do their best work. :rolleyes:

A hypocrite says "I hate my union but I'm not leaving my current job because of the great benefits supplied by...the union".

You might want to rethink that.
 
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Kinnick.At.Night

HR Legend
Jun 27, 2018
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How is it keeping you from going somewhere else. I don't know of any union that makes you a member for life.
What I mean is that I’m happy with how much I’m paid and my benefits. My union bargained for it and I thank them for that. With that said, there are dozens of competitive jobs in my field of work that I could pursue right now if I wanted to. That aren’t unionized. So, the notion, at least in my line of work, that the union keeps us all from being exploited simply isn’t true. If we felt exploited, we’d leave.
 

Kinnick.At.Night

HR Legend
Jun 27, 2018
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You're an absolute idiot on the subject. I mean completely ignorant. JFC.

Hmm. Well, his criticisms of life in a union job are all valid. Every single one of them. I see what he described every day. Tell me, Riley: What union do you belong to?
 

RileyHawk

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What I mean is that I’m happy with how much I’m paid and my benefits. My union bargained for it and I thank them for that. With that said, there are dozens of competitive jobs in my field of work that I could pursue right now if I wanted to. That aren’t unionized. So, the notion, at least in my line of work, that the union keeps us all from being exploited simply isn’t true. If we felt exploited, we’d leave.
And that's what the power of collective bargaining is. The workers have leverage in negotiations to make sure the work environment doesn't exploit them. The individual worker has very little power. That's why unions came about in the first place - massive exploitation.
 

RileyHawk

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Hmm. Well, his criticisms of life in a union job are all valid. Every single one of them. I see what he described every day. Tell me, Riley: What union do you belong to?
No they are not. They are ignorant rantings of a low management worker who understands nothing about the value and history of unions.
 

The Tradition

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Apr 23, 2002
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You are full of shit. I worked in a union shop. Teamsters Local 391 at Fairchild/Burns. There was a clear path by which workers could be terminated. I knew people who were terminated. You do not have a f'n clue what you're talking about or you're lying. Pick one or the other.

Sure, you can be fired for misconduct.

But not for "quiet quitting"....
 
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Kinnick.At.Night

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No they are not. They are ignorant rantings of a low management worker who understands nothing about the value and history of unions.

I see his “rantings.” First hand. Daily. They’re not ignorant. They’re the nature of a union work force. I’ve been in one for a long time. Have you?
 

Kinnick.At.Night

HR Legend
Jun 27, 2018
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And that's what the power of collective bargaining is. The workers have leverage in negotiations to make sure the work environment doesn't exploit them. The individual worker has very little power. That's why unions came about in the first place - massive exploitation.

I had a great offer from a railroad contractor a few years ago that I declined. It wasn’t a unionized job. But, that’s not why I didn’t accept the position. That particular contractor doesn’t pay in to the RRB.
 

bagdropper

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Oct 17, 2002
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I still don't understand how coffee shops are even a thing.

Been making my own for more than a decade now - grinding the beans, got my fancy shmancy decanter to keep it hot for hours. Did the math, costs less than a dollar a day all in. Hot and ready when the alarm goes off, tastes great. Wash out the decanter when I get home, prep the maker for the morning, set the timer. Maybe tops 3 minutes of work daily, all at home. I buy the beans roughly once every 3 months and it's not like I have to search the world over to find the ones I like.

Evidently coffee is too difficult for some people.
 

ThorneStockton

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2009
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I dislike my union, but it’s not because of how I view it politically. I see, first hand, how much it allows lazy, incompetent and dangerous workers to keep their jobs. Being fired at my company means taking a six month vacation and coming back. With back pay. People who support unions point out how much they do for their members in regard to pay, vacation and benefits. Ok, yeah, I agree with that. But, the thing is, there are a zillion non-Union jobs that are competitive in all of those areas that I could pursue. My union isn’t blessing me with a great career. It’s simply keeping me from going somewhere else.

What do you do? Based on your posts I would have thought you'd be thankful for the protections of a union, especially since you're on the inheritance plan anyhow.


On a separate note, it's so perfect that Trad has his worst takes on a subject that in theory he should be familiar with. Of course, when we're talking about HR specialists or HR Jr Associate it will always be in theory.
 

The Tradition

HR King
Apr 23, 2002
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What do you do? Based on your posts I would have thought you'd be thankful for the protections of a union, especially since you're on the inheritance plan anyhow.


On a separate note, it's so perfect that Trad has his worst takes on a subject that in theory he should be familiar with. Of course, when we're talking about HR specialists or HR Jr Associate it will always be in theory.

LOL, I've actually sat at the bargaining table with union scum.

Have you?
 

RileyHawk

HR Legend
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Aug 21, 2002
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I see his “rantings.” First hand. Daily. They’re not ignorant. They’re the nature of a union work force. I’ve been in one for a long time. Have you?
They are. Read up on the history of unions and why they came about. Also read up on the advances unions have created for all workers ($$, benefits, working hours, etc.). Unions have had many issues and far too much corruption in some of them. They can go too far the other way but the purpose and foundation of unions is a sound way to give some leverage to the workers.
 

Kinnick.At.Night

HR Legend
Jun 27, 2018
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What do you do? Based on your posts I would have thought you'd be thankful for the protections of a union, especially since you're on the inheritance plan anyhow.
.

I work for a Class 1 railroad in bridge inspection and construction. Why would I be thankful for the “protections” of my union when I could leave and go make the same or more, doing similar work, in a non-unionized job?
Inheritance plan? What are you referring to?
 

ThorneStockton

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2009
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LOL, I've actually sat at the bargaining table with union scum.

Have you?

That personal bias combined with your traditional prideful ignorance seen on just about every other topic is likely the combination that makes for your especially poor takes.

Most every other topic is just your usual enthusiastic ignorance, this one has a special ingredient: unwarranted feeling of expertise, add in some feeling of bitterness and resentment, that feeling of being slighted is probably inherent for a man working as a HR "associate".

No wonder you're a perfect MAGA, always aggrieved, always the victim. An easy mark.
 
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