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Would a 3/4 Defense work well at Iowa?

Hawkeyeinoregon

Scout Team
Jul 16, 2016
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Eugene, Oregon
Similar to what the BADgers run? I definitely think we have some great LB's and corners to do really well... it just doesn't seem like Iowa can handle the dinks and dunks and the Straight up the guy runs with 7 yard chunks all the time.. yes I know it would expose some bigger plays for the opposing teams at times but I would rather see constant pressure than constant gauging and chunks of yards given up.. something has to change as we need smaller but quicker faster DE's to get pressure on the QB
 
Well of course it could work if they had the right guys and coaches.

However, they have been getting pressure from dline this year and it isn't dinks and dunks that are hurting Iowa, it is the run defense and whether you are running 3/4 or 4/3 it doesn't matter. The scheme isn't what is hurting Iowa, it is the execution of the players. Not filling proper gaps, not having quick enough reads. And if that is happening this year in the 4/3 it would happen in 3/4. And a 3/4 doesn't have smaller quicker DEs.
 
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Similar to what the BADgers run? I definitely think we have some great LB's and corners to do really well... it just doesn't seem like Iowa can handle the dinks and dunks and the Straight up the guy runs with 7 yard chunks all the time.. yes I know it would expose some bigger plays for the opposing teams at times but I would rather see constant pressure than constant gauging and chunks of yards given up.. something has to change as we need smaller but quicker faster DE's to get pressure on the QB
So, how many times does this post come up every year????????
 
I'm not sure what linebackers you've been watching, but I disagree that Iowa has a better makeup at linebacker than at DE. Jewell is outstanding, no one else is above average and they are overall lacking in speed. DE is slow, but they do have size.
A 4-3 could work, a 3-4 could work. Need to have better athletes in either set up to get the job done.
 
I'm not sure what linebackers you've been watching, but I disagree that Iowa has a better makeup at linebacker than at DE. Jewell is outstanding, no one else is above average and they are overall lacking in speed. DE is slow, but they do have size.
A 4-3 could work, a 3-4 could work. Need to have better athletes in either set up to get the job done.
I disagree. Ben Niemann is above average. To me he doesn't appear to be totally healthy still. When he was fully healthy last year he was great.
 
Niemann was pulled out at the end of the 4th quarter last week and never came back he may of been hurt but it didn't appear to me he was.
 
Yes it could work well. Plus, the small number of teams that run it in college football make it harder/different for an offense to scheme for. It also gives you an extra guy to run sideline to sideline against spread teams. Every small advantage helps.
 
For your reading pleasure:

"The 3-4 Defense - Scheme and Personnel
1. With four linebackers, defenses can put more speed on the field to attack spread offenses. Also, coaches say linebackers are more bountiful than defensive linemen on the recruiting trail.

2. The 3-4 gives you the ability to adjust, to stay balanced and to adapt. If you’re playing a 4-3 defense, those four guys with their hands in the dirt are going to rush the quarterback 90 percent of the time. The 3-4 gives you versatility, and it's a little tougher for the offenses to predict where the pressure is coming from. It's harder for the offense to prepare.

3. Perhaps the most important cog in a 3-4 defense is the nose guard. He needs to be big enough and strong enough to take on double-team blocks, and he can't allow guards to reach the linebackers behind him.

4. A defensive end's role also changes significantly in a 3-4. In a 4-3 alignment, defensive ends line up outside a tight end or offensive tackle, where they hope to use their speed and athleticism to beat blocks. Most of the time, an end's sole responsibility is to rush the quarterback and collapse his pocket. In a 3-4, an end's most important job is to control gaps and beat double-team blocks to push the pocket.

5. Because their sole responsibility often is to take on blocks, playing nose guard and defensive end in a 3-4 is considered somewhat unglamorous. Ends and tackles won't produce the eye-popping stats they might get playing in a 4-3. More than anything else, their job is to free up linebackers to make plays.

6. The weakside linebacker (CAT LB) usually is the premier pass-rusher in a 3-4. But he also has to be big enough and strong enough to beat blocks from offensive tackles and running backs.

7. A strongside linebacker (DOG LB) often is asked to drop into space and cover tight ends and running backs on passing plays.

8. The two inside linebackers are supposed to find holes in the line and make plays in the running game or pressure the quarterback.

9. Coaches say the biggest advantage of a 3-4 scheme is its unpredictability. Any of the four linebackers can blitz on a given play, or one of the outside linebackers can move to the line of scrimmage as a stand-up end. the offense cannot predict where the pressure is coming from.

10. Finding the right players to fill roles in a 3-4 often is easier than finding 330-pound tackles, which are necessities in a 4-3. The availability of capable linebackers in recruiting is one of the reasons so many teams are moving to a 3-4.

11. Defensive tackles are tough to find. Defensive tackles are a premium [position]. When you do find them, everybody wants them.
In general, you can find the body types to play the outside linebacker position and they can play earlier in their careers. If the recruit has to play defensive end in the 4-3, you have to develop a guy strengthwise before he can contribute to your team. If a guy is playing outside linebacker, he plays in space, so he can rely on his athleticism and speed more.


12. New Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly switched to a 3-4 defense in his last season as Cincinnati's coach in 2009. He brought former Bearcats defensive coordinator Bob Diaco with him to Notre Dame. Even though a 3-4 defense might be more adept at putting pressure on the quarterback, Kelly says a defense's No. 1 priority still has to be stopping the run. And 3-4 teams will have to do it with one fewer lineman.
"I think what we need to see more than anything else from our defense is the ability to stop the run on a consistent basis," Kelly said. "Your inside [line]backers have got to be able to press guards; they've got to do a great job there. I know we can bring pressure from the edge with our athletes. We've got to be able to hold up inside out."

13. In the end, if a player doesn't carry out his assignments and tackle well, it really doesn't matter what type of scheme a defense uses.

Personnel for the 3-4
There are several intricacies that define a 3-4 defense but the biggest difference from a personnel standpoint, in teams playing a 3-4, is in the criteria for playing the "defensive end" position. Here is a closer look at exactly what we are talking about:

In the more traditional and popular 4-3 your ends are best suited for lining up in space and rushing the passer on outside the edge of the tackle. Those players usually weight between 260 and 275 pounds. The are athletic and agile and their strength is getting up field with quickness and lean. The ideal 4-3 end also possesses an ability to lean and turn the corner and squeeze the pocket in which the quarterback is standing. Teams are wiling to give up size and strength for speed and edge rushing ability. The perfect fit for this style of defender is Carolina Panther Julius Peppers.

On the other hand a 3-4 defensive end is more like a defensive tackle. He must be strong at the point of attack and is aligned in most cases head up on an offensive tackle and must control runs gaps first and foremost. Size and strength become more of a factor because he plays in confines of line play and seldom is in space using athletic ability. Ideally this guy should weigh 275-290 pounds and be able to beat double teams by getting a push. It's a more physical task then that of a 4-3 end."
 
Niemann was pulled out at the end of the 4th quarter last week and never came back he may of been hurt but it didn't appear to me he was.

He came in and out a couple times in the latter part of the game. To me it looked like he was gassed. He has the toughest job of the LBs. He is often matched up with slot receivers. So much so that Pro Football Focus had him as a DB because he spends so much time in coverage. Through the first 3 weeks he was top 5 in the big ten in coverage grades.
 
The article makes the case that teams are moving to 3-4 because suitable personnel (LBs) are easier/more plentiful to find on the recruiting trail. But then it's comes out that a 330lb nose taclkle and 280lb ends are required on the line. It seems to me that a hog at nose tackle is the hardest to find (and the ease of inserting a linebacker doesn't make up for this) while a conventional DT is comparatively easier. That said, the 3-4 scheme does seem to offer a lot more avenues to confuse a QB. Imo, at Iowa, perhaps the 3-4 could be considered for an in-game situational adjustment along the lines of the raider scheme...that would permit getting away for a few plays with a less than ideal NT.
 
That game has me worried on Oct 22nd. Wisky defense will be coming ready to play and if Iowa can't adjust, it will be much like the Rose Bowl last year (sack, sack, sack, punt). Will not be good.

Iowa has to be ready for their blitzes and be able to check down to the RB or run some screens against it.
 
Hayden / Bill Brashier used a 5-2 defense that was very similar to a 3-4. A nose tackle, 2 middle backers, & the ends didnt have a hand on the ground. So yes it could work here.
 
something has to change as we need smaller but quicker faster DE's to get pressure on the QB

Pressure on the QB has been a positive for the defense so far this year IMO, certainly much better than rush defense. Your statement suggests that Iowa is in a dire situation at DE.

Iowa DEs have combined for 9.5 QB sacks of the 13 total team sacks thru 4 games. Only Michigan has more sacks (17) of all B10 teams. Matt Nelson (4) and Anthony Nelson (3.5) are currently in the top 5 for most sacks.

I wouldn't claim that Iowa has elite pass rushers right now but the pressure so far isn't too shabby and the sack numbers appear to support that. We'll see if that holds up as the schedule gets tougher.

I believe MNelson, ANelson, and PHesse have all showed promise as underclassmen. That said, I would be thrilled if the Hawks add Van Ginkel to the roster next year - I think he would be a huge asset in the raider package.
 
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Iowa is 13th nationally in sacks, yet all I hear is complaints about the lack of pass rush.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category20/sort01.html

We could lead the country in sacks, and there would still be Hawkeye fans whining about lack of pass rush. The same ones screaming "TURN AROUND!" whenever the opposing team completes a pass against us.
The pass rush has been pretty good against some pretty weak offensive lines. The Rutgers game was really the only one where our opponent was sacked more than normal. We'll have to see how if it can continue that production once we get into the meat of the schedule.
 
Iowa is 13th nationally in sacks, yet all I hear is complaints about the lack of pass rush.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category20/sort01.html

We could lead the country in sacks, and there would still be Hawkeye fans whining about lack of pass rush. The same ones screaming "TURN AROUND!" whenever the opposing team completes a pass against us.

Agree. We shall see what happens as the competition gets better, but pressure on the passer hasn't been the deficiency on defense. I'm not expert enough to know whether a 3-4 or 4-3 is better for Iowa to be running. I do know that -- in general -- Iowa has had elite-level defenses quite a few times in KF's tenure. The only season Iowa had anything approaching an elite offense was 2002. The defensive approach has been good overall in KF's tenure. When Iowa has good players, the scheme allows them to be good on defense. When the defense is average, it's due to the talent level of the players. One could likely say the same thing about teams running a 3-4.
 
It could work for sure, however; the state of Iowa and surrounding states tend to be plentiful with large (corn fed) DT's and or DE's. In a 4-3 generally you have a 1 technique and a 3 technique (or 2i and 4i) so yeah it makes sense. The DE's will play a 5 tech if no TE (weakside in pro formation) and or a 6 or 7 tech if there is a TE. If it is a spread formation both would play a 5 generally. However, in a 3-4 scheme you need a pretty dominate NT who plays a 0 or a 1 technique to the strength (or field if balanced). The DT's would play a 4 or 4i if the NT is in a 0 tech and a 3 tech to weakside and a 5 tech to the strong side.
FYI- Even numbers and (0) are head up and odd are lined up in a gap. 0=over center, 2=over guard, 4 over tackle, 6 over TE. 1 gap between center guard, 3 gap between G and T, 5 outside of T, and 7 is super wide of T or outside of TE
 
The article makes the case that teams are moving to 3-4 because suitable personnel (LBs) are easier/more plentiful to find on the recruiting trail. But then it's comes out that a 330lb nose taclkle and 280lb ends are required on the line. It seems to me that a hog at nose tackle is the hardest to find (and the ease of inserting a linebacker doesn't make up for this) while a conventional DT is comparatively easier. That said, the 3-4 scheme does seem to offer a lot more avenues to confuse a QB. Imo, at Iowa, perhaps the 3-4 could be considered for an in-game situational adjustment along the lines of the raider scheme...that would permit getting away for a few plays with a less than ideal NT.

I don't recall if it was KF or another coach, but I heard a discussion or maybe it was an answer to a question on why more teams do not employ a 3/4 defensive front. The answer, again IIRC, was that there are only so many Warren Sapps out there. That comment seems to corroborate your's about, "a hog at nose tackle".
 
Iowa is 13th nationally in sacks, yet all I hear is complaints about the lack of pass rush.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category20/sort01.html

We could lead the country in sacks, and there would still be Hawkeye fans whining about lack of pass rush. The same ones screaming "TURN AROUND!" whenever the opposing team completes a pass against us.
Lets revisit this stat after we play a good team. Our first 5 games of the season are against bad teams. I agree that Dline pass rush is not of concern right now. Getting first downs and keeping the defense off the field needs to be our first priority. The opponents are only going to get tougher after Saturday
 
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