Not 80+ year old Hayden, but Hayden in his prime coaching today? I have to think he would handle the B1G West pretty well.
Would Iowa have made the B1G champ. game more often under Fry?
- Thread starter General Tso
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Probably. With the B1G West being so weak and the favorable schedules Iowa has had this decade I would say very likely.
Easily dominant We wouldn't even be talking about Wisconsin in top. Iowa would be the Ohio State in our division .
If we are imagining the BIG had a championship in the 80's, I'd say Fry would do very well. If we are imagining the 1980's Fry coaching today, I'd say not so much. The conference is stronger today than it was when Fry was making hay.
No. Fans seem to under estimate KF and his legacy. Fry had his lean years as well and people seem to forget them.
I would say no, Big Ten is much tougher today than it was when Hayden fry was coaching.
THIS. I'm about ready to go Muskie on some of you
Under criteria wouldn’t be eligible for one until psu entered big 10 to give 12 teams and all would have depended on what the division make up would’ve been. I just hope in 90s they’d come up with something better than legends and leaders for names.
we should have psycho murders and rapists play for us, then we could probably get to 8 wins!
PSU gave us 11, Nebraska moved us to 12.
Good point had a brain fart. We know if we did the big 12 formula would have made it in all 3 of Hayden’s rose bowl years plus 91’ year we went 10-1-1 with loss to Michigan who were big 10 champs and tie vs BYU in holiday bowl. Not sure what other years finishes 2nd or tie for it during Hayden’s time besides that season.
For those seem to think HF would be doing so much better. I think you are forgetting the Big 10 is different than the 80's/early 90's teams when Fry had his best years.
Wisconsin and Northwestern were terrible back then. For the past 20 years each of those schools have regularly top 25 ranked teams.
Wisconsin and Northwestern were terrible back then. For the past 20 years each of those schools have regularly top 25 ranked teams.
Evidence that HF was willing to adjust to the times? Evidence that he didn't value staff longevity? Evidence that KF is "afraid" to hire the best assistants possible?
I am a huge HF fan! He saved Iowa football. He was a great coach. But, after another 10 years goes by, fans will be convinced that he sh*t baby blue terds that smelled like flowers.
HF hired one of the finest coaching staffs ever assembled when he came to IC. But, he hired Barry Alverez from Mason City HS, and he "recycled" an assistant from North Texas named Bill Snyder. He hired Bob Stoops as a graduate assistant, and KF after one season at Pitt after he spent time coaching at the Worcester Academy. Give HF credit - these guys turned out to be great hires, but there was also some good fortune mixed in.
When those guys left, he wasn't able to replace them with the incredible success of the first go around.
In the last 4 or 5 years of his career, fans made the same observations about HF that they do about KF today - predictable offense, game has passed him by, etc.
There is a reason they called the B1G the "Big 2, Little 8". It's because it was. The conference is soooo much tougher now - AINEC.
I don't know about Northwestern being regularly ranked in the Top 25......
They have put together a nice run of 7-9 win seasons.
Hayden could probably adjust to the spread offense and use some of it in his offensive scheme. But his recruiting is about the same as Ferentz's. He developed players and got only a few 4-5 recruits. Fry probably had a better coaching staff in his good years at Iowa but had a bigger turnover of assistants and towards the latter part his tenure his assistants might of been worse. I think Hayden and Ferentz are above average coaches but recruiting to Iowa was average.
Yes, but this assumes if they were in the Big Ten they would have to abide by different academic standards which wouldn’t have allowed them the many players they had.
Not very likely, this is why before the season started I was posting comparisons about Hayden Fry and I got accused of hating him which is 100% untrue. But if you compare schedules, records etc. etc. the amount of times they both scored under 20 points, Under 14 points, etc....you'd be shocked what you found out.
That doesn't even count the fact that the Big Ten is infinitely more difficult now than it was in the 80s and early 90s. It doesn't count the fact that college football in general is infinitely more competitive now than it was in the 80s and early 90s and yet still KF has finished in the top 10 more often and has put more kids in the NFL.
This is just an example of the human condition, people look back fondly on what is no more and have a tendency to under appreciate what they currently have.
I'm telling you if you go back and count the amount of times we lost to sub .500 teams under Hayden and then amount of times we scored under 16 or 17 point you would literally be shocked.
He was an awesome coach and awesome dude. I thought him so awesome I called in and talked to him at least twice on is call in show as a young teenager. Quite frankly Iowa football and KF don't exist without him but he's also the beneficiary of revisionist history & fond memories & if he was the coach at Iowa now, in this generation with social media.... they would lambaste him just the same way you critics do KF and quite frankly every coach for every team....it's kind of sad really.
That doesn't even count the fact that the Big Ten is infinitely more difficult now than it was in the 80s and early 90s. It doesn't count the fact that college football in general is infinitely more competitive now than it was in the 80s and early 90s and yet still KF has finished in the top 10 more often and has put more kids in the NFL.
This is just an example of the human condition, people look back fondly on what is no more and have a tendency to under appreciate what they currently have.
I'm telling you if you go back and count the amount of times we lost to sub .500 teams under Hayden and then amount of times we scored under 16 or 17 point you would literally be shocked.
He was an awesome coach and awesome dude. I thought him so awesome I called in and talked to him at least twice on is call in show as a young teenager. Quite frankly Iowa football and KF don't exist without him but he's also the beneficiary of revisionist history & fond memories & if he was the coach at Iowa now, in this generation with social media.... they would lambaste him just the same way you critics do KF and quite frankly every coach for every team....it's kind of sad really.
We would be seeing the same kind of thing we're seeing now with Wisconsin: make the BIG Champ game many years, but then have to somehow get past OSU (or UM) to get into the playoff, and that would not have been easy.
1981: would have had to play OSU, prob a loss.
1985: would have had to replay UM in BIG Champ game, very hard to beat a good team twice in a season, prob a loss.
1990 and 1991: these teams could have actually won the BIG Champ game but would have gotten beat badly in a playoff.
Oh--the 1995 and 1996 teams, on a good day, could've upset anyone in a BIG Champ game, but again not really playoff caliber.
1981: would have had to play OSU, prob a loss.
1985: would have had to replay UM in BIG Champ game, very hard to beat a good team twice in a season, prob a loss.
1990 and 1991: these teams could have actually won the BIG Champ game but would have gotten beat badly in a playoff.
Oh--the 1995 and 1996 teams, on a good day, could've upset anyone in a BIG Champ game, but again not really playoff caliber.
On a corollary note it's interesting you mention 95 and 96 because that 1997 team will go down in history along with 2010 as two of the most talented teams Iowa has ever fielded that bombed!
And that team had a ton of offensive firepower...Demo Odom's, Tavian Banks and Tim Dwight along with a few offensive linemen who went on to play to varying degrees in the NFL and yet they scored 14 points or under four times in the last eight games.
That 96 team however, with Sedrick Shaw one of my all time favorites - who I'm convinced would be the fans whipping boy if he played today because he kept Tavian, off the field -could beat anybody at the end of the year.
Of course they also lost to 4-7 Tulsa early in the year as well… DOH!!!
Interesting idea. I've decided to look into this and I've got two different versions of who would play in a Big Ten Championship Game during Hayden's coaching years.
One is for the teams that were in the Big Ten at the time, and they would be divided into their respective current divisions, and the second one includes Nebraska, Penn State (pre-'93), Maryland and Rutgers and will be based on overall record.
1979- Ohio State (11-1, 8-0) vs Purdue (10-2, 7-1) / Ohio State vs Purdue
*Purdue edges out Nebraska based on conference record tiebreaker
1980- Michigan (10-2, 8-0) vs Purdue (9-3, 7-1) / Michigan vs Nebraska (10-2)
*Nebraska tops Purdue on overall record. Penn State also went 10-2 that year as well.
1981- Ohio State (9-3, 6-2) vs Iowa (8-4, 6-2) / Penn State (10-2) vs Nebraska (9-3)
*Fans might be upset because Iowa beat Nebraska, but Nebraska did end up having the better overall and conference record that year. Also, in 1981, due to the Iowa State rivalry renewal, Iowa only played 8 conf. games that year, while Illinois, who beat Iowa, had to play 9.
1982- Michigan (8-4, 8-1) vs Iowa (8-4, 6-2) / Penn State (11-1) vs Nebraska (12-1)
*You're gonna see that PSU vs Nebraska matchup a lot. PSU won the national title that year and Nebraska finished #3 with their only loss coming in an infamous controversial game at Penn State.
1983- Michigan (9-3, 8-1) vs Illinois (10-2, 9-0) / Michigan vs Nebraska (12-1)
*Huskers lost to Miami in the defacto national title game that year. Maryland won the ACC title in 1983.
1984- Ohio State (9-3, 7-2) vs Illinois (7-4, 6-3) / Maryland (9-3) vs Nebraska (10-2)
*Illinois gets in over Iowa, who beat the Illini, but tied with Wisconsin and lost close games with MSU and Minnesota all in a 3 week span. Maryland jumps Ohio State due to unbeaten conference record tiebreaker. This was also the year of their then-NCAA record 31 pt comeback against Miami.
1985- Michigan (10-1-1, 6-1-1) vs Iowa (10-2, 7-1) / Penn State (11-1) vs Iowa
*Penn State would lose to Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl for the national title.
1986- Michigan (11-2, 7-1) vs Iowa (9-3, 5-3) / Penn State (12-0) vs Nebraska (10-2)
*Iowa lost in a classic that year at Michigan. Also, their regular season finale walk-off win against Minnesota would've had even more drama had it been for a division title as both finished 5-3 in conference. Penn State won the national title over Miami that year.
1987- Michigan State (9-2-1, 7-0-1) vs Iowa (10-3, 6-2) / Michigan State vs Nebraska (10-2)
*The '87 Iowa team is a little underrated IMO. They lost 2 games by a combined 6 points and could've easily been 12-1 that year as B10 champs. MSU was a deserving champ, though, as they beat USC twice, to start the year and then in the Rose Bowl, which snapped the conference's 6-year losing skid in Pasadena.
1988- Michigan (9-2-1, 7-0-1) vs Illinois (6-5-1, 5-2-1) / Michigan vs Nebraska (11-2)
*Not the strongest year for the Big Ten. Michigan finished #4 in the rankings. The next highest-ranked team was 8-3-1 Indiana at #20....
1989- Michigan (10-2, 8-0) vs Illinois (10-2, 7-1) / Michigan vs Illinois
*The only two teams with 10 wins in the conference. Illinois edges out Nebraska based on conference record.
1990- Michigan State (8-3-1, 6-2) vs Iowa (8-4, 6-2) / Penn State (9-3) vs Nebraska (9-3)
*This year needed a CCG to decide a champion as a record 4 teams tied for the conference title, which also included Michigan and Illinois.
1991- Michigan (10-2, 8-0) vs Iowa (10-1-1, 7-1) / Penn State (11-2) vs Iowa
*Michigan and Iowa were the clear top 2 teams in the Big Ten that year. PSU also had a solid season topping Tennessee in the Fiesta Bowl.
1992- Michigan (9-0-3, 6-0-2) vs Illinois (6-5-1, 4-3-1) / Michigan vs Nebraska (9-3)
*Odd year for the Big Ten. A lot of teams beat up on each other. Michigan gets credit for an unbeaten season, but tied in 3 contests.
1993- Ohio State (10-1-1, 6-1-1) vs Wisconsin (10-1-1, 6-1-1) / Ohio State vs Nebraska (11-1)
*Badger fans were thrilled to finally get a trip to Pasadena. However, Nebraska played in a classic against Florida State for the national title.
1994- Penn State (12-0, 8-0) vs Wisconsin (8-3-1, 5-2-1) / Penn State vs Nebraska (12-0)
*To think you could finally settle the argument of who was better between PSU and Nebraska that year.
1995- Ohio State (11-2, 7-1) vs Northwestern (10-2, 8-0) / Ohio State vs Nebraska (12-0)
*Poor Fitzy and the Mildcats don't get their magical Rose Bowl loss to USC had Nebraska been in the conference back then.
1996- Ohio State (11-1, 7-1) vs Northwestern (9-3, 7-1) / Ohio State vs Nebraska (11-2)
*OSU and NW avoided each other in 1995 and 1996 so that could've settled the score in those two years. Nebraska was also denied a chance to defend their national title that year, when they were upset by Texas in the Big 12 title game. Ohio State would later play spoiler to Arizona State in the Rose Bowl. ASU also beat Nebraska earlier in the year.
1997- Michigan (12-0, 8-0) vs Purdue (9-3, 6-2) / Michigan vs Nebraska (13-0)
*Two of the most debated "what-if" scenarios in college football could've been answered with a CCG (and if both teams were in the conference back then.....) Michigan vs Nebraska in 1997 might've been the most debated.
1998- Ohio State (11-1, 7-1) vs Wisconsin (11-1, 7-1) / Ohio State vs Wisconsin
*Just like the current trend, Ohio State represents the East.....and Wisconsin represents the West.
What's that saying? The more things change, the more they stay the same............
Hayden would've played in 7 Big Ten Championship Games just based on the teams that were in the conference at the time. However, they would've only been in 2 of those if the conference had the 14 teams it has now.
Thoughts?
One is for the teams that were in the Big Ten at the time, and they would be divided into their respective current divisions, and the second one includes Nebraska, Penn State (pre-'93), Maryland and Rutgers and will be based on overall record.
1979- Ohio State (11-1, 8-0) vs Purdue (10-2, 7-1) / Ohio State vs Purdue
*Purdue edges out Nebraska based on conference record tiebreaker
1980- Michigan (10-2, 8-0) vs Purdue (9-3, 7-1) / Michigan vs Nebraska (10-2)
*Nebraska tops Purdue on overall record. Penn State also went 10-2 that year as well.
1981- Ohio State (9-3, 6-2) vs Iowa (8-4, 6-2) / Penn State (10-2) vs Nebraska (9-3)
*Fans might be upset because Iowa beat Nebraska, but Nebraska did end up having the better overall and conference record that year. Also, in 1981, due to the Iowa State rivalry renewal, Iowa only played 8 conf. games that year, while Illinois, who beat Iowa, had to play 9.
1982- Michigan (8-4, 8-1) vs Iowa (8-4, 6-2) / Penn State (11-1) vs Nebraska (12-1)
*You're gonna see that PSU vs Nebraska matchup a lot. PSU won the national title that year and Nebraska finished #3 with their only loss coming in an infamous controversial game at Penn State.
1983- Michigan (9-3, 8-1) vs Illinois (10-2, 9-0) / Michigan vs Nebraska (12-1)
*Huskers lost to Miami in the defacto national title game that year. Maryland won the ACC title in 1983.
1984- Ohio State (9-3, 7-2) vs Illinois (7-4, 6-3) / Maryland (9-3) vs Nebraska (10-2)
*Illinois gets in over Iowa, who beat the Illini, but tied with Wisconsin and lost close games with MSU and Minnesota all in a 3 week span. Maryland jumps Ohio State due to unbeaten conference record tiebreaker. This was also the year of their then-NCAA record 31 pt comeback against Miami.
1985- Michigan (10-1-1, 6-1-1) vs Iowa (10-2, 7-1) / Penn State (11-1) vs Iowa
*Penn State would lose to Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl for the national title.
1986- Michigan (11-2, 7-1) vs Iowa (9-3, 5-3) / Penn State (12-0) vs Nebraska (10-2)
*Iowa lost in a classic that year at Michigan. Also, their regular season finale walk-off win against Minnesota would've had even more drama had it been for a division title as both finished 5-3 in conference. Penn State won the national title over Miami that year.
1987- Michigan State (9-2-1, 7-0-1) vs Iowa (10-3, 6-2) / Michigan State vs Nebraska (10-2)
*The '87 Iowa team is a little underrated IMO. They lost 2 games by a combined 6 points and could've easily been 12-1 that year as B10 champs. MSU was a deserving champ, though, as they beat USC twice, to start the year and then in the Rose Bowl, which snapped the conference's 6-year losing skid in Pasadena.
1988- Michigan (9-2-1, 7-0-1) vs Illinois (6-5-1, 5-2-1) / Michigan vs Nebraska (11-2)
*Not the strongest year for the Big Ten. Michigan finished #4 in the rankings. The next highest-ranked team was 8-3-1 Indiana at #20....
1989- Michigan (10-2, 8-0) vs Illinois (10-2, 7-1) / Michigan vs Illinois
*The only two teams with 10 wins in the conference. Illinois edges out Nebraska based on conference record.
1990- Michigan State (8-3-1, 6-2) vs Iowa (8-4, 6-2) / Penn State (9-3) vs Nebraska (9-3)
*This year needed a CCG to decide a champion as a record 4 teams tied for the conference title, which also included Michigan and Illinois.
1991- Michigan (10-2, 8-0) vs Iowa (10-1-1, 7-1) / Penn State (11-2) vs Iowa
*Michigan and Iowa were the clear top 2 teams in the Big Ten that year. PSU also had a solid season topping Tennessee in the Fiesta Bowl.
1992- Michigan (9-0-3, 6-0-2) vs Illinois (6-5-1, 4-3-1) / Michigan vs Nebraska (9-3)
*Odd year for the Big Ten. A lot of teams beat up on each other. Michigan gets credit for an unbeaten season, but tied in 3 contests.
1993- Ohio State (10-1-1, 6-1-1) vs Wisconsin (10-1-1, 6-1-1) / Ohio State vs Nebraska (11-1)
*Badger fans were thrilled to finally get a trip to Pasadena. However, Nebraska played in a classic against Florida State for the national title.
1994- Penn State (12-0, 8-0) vs Wisconsin (8-3-1, 5-2-1) / Penn State vs Nebraska (12-0)
*To think you could finally settle the argument of who was better between PSU and Nebraska that year.
1995- Ohio State (11-2, 7-1) vs Northwestern (10-2, 8-0) / Ohio State vs Nebraska (12-0)
*Poor Fitzy and the Mildcats don't get their magical Rose Bowl loss to USC had Nebraska been in the conference back then.
1996- Ohio State (11-1, 7-1) vs Northwestern (9-3, 7-1) / Ohio State vs Nebraska (11-2)
*OSU and NW avoided each other in 1995 and 1996 so that could've settled the score in those two years. Nebraska was also denied a chance to defend their national title that year, when they were upset by Texas in the Big 12 title game. Ohio State would later play spoiler to Arizona State in the Rose Bowl. ASU also beat Nebraska earlier in the year.
1997- Michigan (12-0, 8-0) vs Purdue (9-3, 6-2) / Michigan vs Nebraska (13-0)
*Two of the most debated "what-if" scenarios in college football could've been answered with a CCG (and if both teams were in the conference back then.....) Michigan vs Nebraska in 1997 might've been the most debated.
1998- Ohio State (11-1, 7-1) vs Wisconsin (11-1, 7-1) / Ohio State vs Wisconsin
*Just like the current trend, Ohio State represents the East.....and Wisconsin represents the West.
What's that saying? The more things change, the more they stay the same............
Hayden would've played in 7 Big Ten Championship Games just based on the teams that were in the conference at the time. However, they would've only been in 2 of those if the conference had the 14 teams it has now.
Thoughts?
Only this The Big 8, Miami, Florida State who I think we're still independent, so was PSU & Notre Dame ruled the 80s & early 90s, the Big Ten & the SEC were awful!
College Football has come a long way!!!
But would the loser of 1994 UNL-PSU B1G CCG have made the playoff? Of all the years we had split NCs back then, how was this not one of them?
Iowa had some really good teams in that era coupled with Minnesota, Wisconsin, Purdue and Northwestern were all not good programs during that time. Illinois had a year or two there, but they werent consistently good.
Even then, I think assuming Iowa would be in the title game 7 times during that era is still best case scenario.
Even then, I think assuming Iowa would be in the title game 7 times during that era is still best case scenario.
From 1981 to 1992 you could've basically had either Iowa or Illinois in the BTCG (if it were based just on teams in the conference at the time.)
Well Hayden got to play crappy NW teams, didn't have to play Nebraska when they were really good, Mich St and Wisconsin were never great teams, and Penn State only joined in the 90's, although they played a couple times in early 80's.
Ok, forget the Hayden reference. I think the point is how often Iowa would have been in CCG in the 80s - early 90s had there been one. No ones saying the league then was equal to today.
Similar to thinking about how much fun a Big Ten basketball tournament would have been for Iowa fans from 1979 - 1989, and even to 1997 mostly. Davis’s best teams were built for 3 games in 3 days, and Lute was (well) Lute
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. If so well done, if not this is delusional.
1980s Iowa under Fry was very good, specifically the first half of that decade. As others have said, the conference was different. Northwestern was terrible. Worst P5 team in America bad. Wisconsin was bad. Minnesota worse than the Kill years, better than the Brewster years. Illinois was pretty good. Purdue was decent.
If 14-team Big 10 had existed in the 1980s, Iowa would have been battling Nebraska for division title most years. Huskers 1980s were very, very good.
Agreed, and had the league had the same teams it has today, Penn State would have added to the strength of the conference. The west would have come down to Nebraska and Iowa.
