Are most of the folks dying from fentanyl overdoes actually seeking fentanyl, or is this dealers buying fentanyl to give a cheap kick to placebos they’re selling as Percocet, or MDMA, etc?
Would legalization abate the fentanyl death count?
- Thread starter seminole97
- Start date
Legalization would absolutely reduce deaths, but there’s a pretty significant downside. Fentanyl is a very safe drug, the problem is when it’s made in someone’s basement and the impurities and questionable strength come into play. If you had a set strength and it wasn’t laced with rat poison it would absolutely reduce deaths.
There is some evidence for decriminalization being effective, however from what I can gather it can't just be decriminalization you also need treatment systems.
So Portugal had tremendous success when they decriminalized, however they had setbacks later and think because their treatment infrastructure fell apart. Oregon has not been successful. Again I think this is due to their lack of treatment options.
https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu...failure-or-success-the-answer-isnt-so-simple/
So Portugal had tremendous success when they decriminalized, however they had setbacks later and think because their treatment infrastructure fell apart. Oregon has not been successful. Again I think this is due to their lack of treatment options.
https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu...failure-or-success-the-answer-isnt-so-simple/
Wouldn’t that create a cohort of new addicts who otherwise would not trust street drugs? I am assuming it’s both addicting and users develop a resistance.
Wait are you suggesting that making Fentanyl an over the counter drug would reduce deaths?
If you are interested you should look at Switzerland's policy that developed in the 90s and Portugal's in the 2000s (link in previous post). These are more decriminalization rather than legalization but it will definitely interesting evidence.
https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.... 1991, the country,bring in and exchange used
Oh ok I think I misunderstood.
Basically the idea is give addicts a safe way to pursue their addiction and provide help where you can. Don't arrest them for their addiction.
I thought the idea was let people buy Fentanyl over the counter at their local CVS.
Yes. Absolutely. If dosing were controlled. It couldn’t be like Tylenol. Again, it’s very safe. Addictive but safe. Don’t take this to mean I’m advocating for removal of prescription controls. The question was if it would reduce deaths. And it would.
Street purchased fentanyl is of, at best, questionable quality. A user may typically take a certain volume of the drug, typically with heroin to get high. The problem arises when a particular batch is 20 times more potent than the usual batch. Or a batch was unevenly mixed.
The analogy would be someone not realizing a can a beer was actually pure alcohol, even if it tasted like beer and smelled like beer. A drinker would very quickly overdose before realizing that their beer was actually pure alcohol.
I'd rather just make all drugs illegal and let the ensuing wars and loss of life be the determining factor to where society ends up going.
Either we throw it all away fighting to save the drugs ("dey took our drugs!!!")........or we decide that the loss of life is no longer worth fighting to keep drug addicts and drug cartels happy and letting people get their cheap fixes and highs.
There's always ways to discourage stupidity..........it's just a matter of how far you want to go.
Either we throw it all away fighting to save the drugs ("dey took our drugs!!!")........or we decide that the loss of life is no longer worth fighting to keep drug addicts and drug cartels happy and letting people get their cheap fixes and highs.
There's always ways to discourage stupidity..........it's just a matter of how far you want to go.
Isn’t Portland or Seattle rolling back their policy of letting drugs go without penalty?
Go ahead make everything legal. Zero public money to help them. Let them die if they don’t have private insurance or the cash. Freedom of choice doesn’t excuse you from consequences nor should you burden others with your freedom.
Go ahead make everything legal. Zero public money to help them. Let them die if they don’t have private insurance or the cash. Freedom of choice doesn’t excuse you from consequences nor should you burden others with your freedom.
Fentanyl is NOT a very safe drug under any circumstances. It is extremely potent, has a very narrow therapeutic window, and requires users to escalate the dose quickly. I am an anesthesiologist. We administer fentanyl every day. It is probably the most dangerous, least forgiving drug we give. There’s a reason that the only place it is given in patient care is ORs, PACUs, ICUs, and ERs.
I think some perspective should be given when claiming fentanyl is a safe drug.
It is safe and predictable when used in the medical setting. When fentanyl is given by a trained professional with monitors and rescue equipment available it is very safe.
It is not safe for the general public consumption.
So the five thousand or so times I’ve safely given it in an ambulance doesn’t count?
I have seen dozens and dozens and dozens of opiate overdoses. Probably hundreds. Nearly every one was a chronic user who overdoses because of a tainted product. I don’t advocate for legalization, but I stand by my statement that there would be fewer deaths.
Agreed. Absolutely. But neither is injecting yourself with distilled rat poison, which is what you sometimes get on the street.
Part of what I was wondering, and I don’t know if there is research out there on this, but are most of the 10s of thousands killed by fentanyl actually intending to take fentanyl and ODed, or are they people who thought they were taking a Percocet, or MDMA, or something else and got bogus drugs laced with fentanyl because they’re buying off the street?
You're going to legalize fentanyl? 😄
Do you know what the lethal dose is?
Let me set up my funeral home business!
Do you know what the lethal dose is?
Let me set up my funeral home business!
I guess I agree that fentanyl is better than rat poison. But I don't think fentanyl should be a recreational drug, the margin of error is just too small before death happens.
Some things are just bad ideas. I would never support a person playing Russian roulette or street frogger either. There are safer ways to have a good time.
There is not a good choice that was presented originally. The question was if deaths would be lowered. I think it would. Maybe I’m wrong.
I don’t know if I’ve ever heard of someone using fentanyl recreationally. Everyone I’ve seen overdose has been a heroin user. Or percs. Something like that. Maybe there have been a few.
I’ve always been told 2 mg. For reference we very commonly give 1/20th to 1/40th of that as a therapeutic dose.
I hadn’t heard of it (fentanyl) being a sought after drug, so that’s why I was wondering if it was just a cheap ingredient for unscrupulous street dealers to use and hope kids thought they were taking a Percocet, or something else.
It just seems like we’re at an absurd death toll from something people apparently aren’t even seeking. If we legalized what they were after, I wonder how far back the deaths would fall.
No. My colleague is dying of cancer and is on the fentanyl patch. Not doing much and the side effects like constipation aren't worth it.
No shit!
That's terrible.
Condolences to your friend. Those patches claimed Tom Petty.
Occasionally, very occasionally, there is an obvious need on the site for a button that gives multiple likes. Someone posting, on an Iowa board, with a "dirtyjohns" handle, a joke about drinking to excess needs multiple likes.
MDMA? Good lord I hope these maggots aren’t passing fenfen off as that. MDMA should and will be legal soon.
Going back to your question I am not sure a legalized prescription fentanyl makes a lot of sense. There are some safety risks. You would need to put it in a dispensing system that reduces risk of overdose. But maybe more importantly I don't think most addicts are specifically seeking fentanyl. Also we already have methadone and buprenorphine. Now I do think some of the safe use studies have found that you need a similar drug to the addicts preference. So in Switzerland they used synthetic heroin and injections. I don't think some addicts will continue to follow up if you only offer methadone.
The other element is you need a robust treatment system must US communities don't have this. Oregon jumped on the decriminalization aspect but did not build up their treatment programs.
This is what I was getting at, if drugs were legalized and provided by reputable producers instead of just unscrupulous and largely unaccountable street dealers, would it push the deaths back down by 10s of thousands a year as people who weren’t even seeking fentanyl wouldn’t end up getting it unintentionally?
I don’t look at legalization as an all puppies and unicorns outcome, because some people left to their own devices will get wrapped around the axle as many do with currently legal drugs like alcohol. It’s just about whether Prohibition on net is an even worse outcome.
Thing that stands out to me about this massive increase in early death is the burden it creates on social services with a wave of orphans. There has gotta be something that works better than what we’re doing that lead to this state.
A good buddy of mine had two people die in his living room when their coke was cut with Fentanyl. My buddy and another friend woke up, the other two didn't. These guys weren't exactly bubblegummers either.
