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Yep. Masks WORK

You can post studies and I can post studies that refute them. There is not consensus.
We are being told to wear cloth masks because they don't want us to raid the actual effective PPE from healthcare providers.
 
You can post studies and I can post studies that refute them.

No; your study is only testing for infection going "one way", for protecting the user.

The studies I've posted are showing that infected people wearing masks will be FAR less likely to infect others. These simply are not the same thing, and I've highlighted for you in the one reference where they are pointing out this fallacy in articles like the one you posted.
 
No; your study is only testing for infection going "one way", for protecting the user.

The studies I've posted are showing that infected people wearing masks will be FAR less likely to infect others. These simply are not the same thing, and I've highlighted for you in the one reference where they are pointing out this fallacy in articles like the one you posted.
Exactly this. Common sense tells us a cloth mask is better than nothing to avoid the virus. It also tells us two people wearing masks is even better at preventing the spread. Studies confirm this yet we have people desperately trying to undermine this for some reason. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Wear masks and encourage everyone else to do so.
 
Yeah, they actually don’t work very well at all.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/08/us/duke-university-face-mask-test-trnd/index.html


Public health experts have spent months emphasizing that masks are one of the most effective tools to help fight the pandemic, and many US states have now introduced some kind of mask requirement.
But when testing their effectiveness, researchers discovered that some masks are quite literally useless.


Neck fleeces, also called gaiter masks and often used by runners, were the least effective. In fact, wearing a fleece mask resulted in a higher number of respiratory droplets because the material seemed to break down larger droplets into smaller particles that are more easily carried away with air.
Folded bandanas and knitted masks also performed poorly and did not offer much protection.
"We were extremely surprised to find that the number of particles measured with the fleece actually exceeded the number of particles measured without wearing any mask," Fischer said.
 
First of all, the "study" was based on observations and recommendations. Second, it was not based on any trials whatesover.
Third, the conclusion was based on loose correlations, not any direct evidence.
Fourth, the premise is that mask use keeps the concentration of the virus out, and lessens how sick the person gets. If someone is already infected, but they don't know it, wouldn't wearing a mask keep more of the virus in?

Joe touts this, but if the subject had been HCQ, he would have slammed it because it wasn't a peer reviewed clinical trial.

Disclaimer: I wear a mask, and support wearing a mask. I don't support hypocrisy.

Wait...you think exhaling virus lowers the infection in the individual? That's not how it works. You aren't going to get more sick from virus that was produced by you.

Masks work by limiting how far your spit droplets travel once leaving your mouth and nose. That's it. Instead of traveling 6 feet or more, it travels a couple inches and far fewer droplets enter the room.

Notice I did not say it stops the virus. It significantly reduces the method of transportation for the virus. If the virus can't reach you, it can't make you sick. Just like it doesn't matter how many troops an army has if it can't get to where the battle is.

This isn't a difficult concept. It is shocking how easily Fox News is able to make it so people can't figure this out.
 
It's also awesome how other countries have been able to get a handle on this virus and some haven't had community spread in months, then they tell us what they did to control it, and we have people here in America who start trying to explain why their ideas are stupid and won't work despite having been proven to already work. In the meantime, we continue to set records here.
 

LOLWUT?

Duke's data shows cotton masks are VERY effective, particularly multi-layer ones.

Three-layer surgical masks and cotton masks, which many people have been making at home, also performed well.

This is what I'd posted for you in other threads.
Do you read what you post, or just "headlines"?


For the control trial (green curve), the five distinct peaks correspond to the five repetitions of the operator speaking. In the case of speaking through a mask, there is a physical barrier, which results in a reduction of transmitted droplets and a significant delay between speaking and detecting particles. In effect, the mask acts as a temporal low pass filter, smoothens the droplet rate over time, and reduces the overall transmission. For the bandana (red curve), the droplet rate is merely reduced by a factor of two and the repetitions of the speech are still noticeable. The effect of the cotton mask (orange curve) is much stronger. The speech pattern is no longer recognizable and most of the droplets, compared to the control trial, are suppressed.

Mask, Name,Description
1, ‘Surgical’ *Surgical mask, 3-layer
2, ‘Valved N95’N95 mask with exhalation valve
3, ‘Knitted’Knitted mask
4, ‘PolyProp’2-layer polypropylene apron mask
5, ‘Poly/Cotton’Cotton-polypropylene-cotton mask

6, ‘MaxAT’ 1-layer Maxima AT mask
7, ‘Cotton2’ 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask
8, ‘Cotton4’ 2-layer cotton, Olson style mask

9, ‘Cotton3′ 2-layer cotton, pleated style mask
10, ‘Cotton1’ 1-layer cotton, pleated style mask
11, ‘Fleece’Gaiter type neck fleece
12, ‘Bandana’ *Double-layer bandana
13, ‘Cotton5′ *2-layer cotton, pleated style mask
14, ‘Fitted N95’N95 mask, no exhalation valve, fitted
‘Swath’ Swath of mask material, polypropylene
‘None’ *Control experiment, no mask

F3.large.jpg


Literally, if 2 people are wearing masks, the relative protection - EVEN in close contact, is about 0.1 x 0.1 = 0.01 the droplet amounts vs No Masks.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083
 
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A bit off the topic here but they say the virus can’t be spread unless it’s attached to say saliva or mucus. My question, could it attach to smoke inhaled and exhaled by a smoker?
 
First of all, the "study" was based on observations and recommendations. Second, it was not based on any trials whatesover.
Third, the conclusion was based on loose correlations, not any direct evidence.
Fourth, the premise is that mask use keeps the concentration of the virus out, and lessens how sick the person gets. If someone is already infected, but they don't know it, wouldn't wearing a mask keep more of the virus in?

Joe touts this, but if the subject had been HCQ, he would have slammed it because it wasn't a peer reviewed clinical trial.

Disclaimer: I wear a mask, and support wearing a mask. I don't support hypocrisy.
Epidemiological studies are either experimental (e.g. observing if a vaccine works by giving the vaccine or a placebo to a group) or observational (cohort, case controlled or cross sectional). Mostly an epi study can show trends or associations, but not necessarily proof.

Ideally with an observational study, you have two matched groups that are very similar (live the same, eat the same, have similar hobbies). One group has an intervention (wearing a mask), the other group does not. Then compare outcomes. You can sort of think of the non mask group as the placebo group.

I would say that a mask is really helpful at lessening the spread of droplets (spit, sneeze, cough). I think of it as covering your cough or sneeze with a handkerchief or tissue. Some virus particles will not be attached to any of this stuff, those will go right through the mask and spread out depending on air currents. I would be surprised if anything other than a tight fitting respirator were effective at blocking those (whether worn by the source or bystander). Part of how an N-95 works is by having a static charge that can capture some particles from the air. It is not just by a physically creating a path too small for the particle to penetrate.

One thing that I think may confound a lot of mask studies are super-spreaders (the idea that something like 5% of infected people cause 80% of infections). Is there really any difference in a non-super-spreader with and without a mask. The same question for the super-spreaders. Back in the summer, there was a report of some women that were infected that gave haircuts to ~140 people. The stylists wore masks and no one was reported infected. Was it the masks or was it that these women were not super-spreaders? It would be really complicated to determine and would require a lot of work.
 
Original Research 18 November 2020
Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers
A Randomized Controlled Trial


"Conclusion:
The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use. The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection."

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
 
Original Research 18 November 2020
Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers
A Randomized Controlled Trial


"Conclusion:
The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use. The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection."

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

So, they work
Thx for clarifying.
 
"The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks."

Results
The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/
Ummm...seriously?
 
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"In this community-based, randomized controlled trial conducted in a setting where mask wearing was uncommon and was not among other recommended public health measures related to COVID-19, a recommendation to wear a surgical mask when outside the home among others did not reduce, at conventional levels of statistical significance, incident SARS-CoV-2 infection compared with no mask recommendation. "
 
Go re-read the conditions they were testing them in.

Compare to the "general public" use being recommended.
Report back the differences you are able to identify.

You are welcome!!!
Go read the side of the box that the manufacturers provide in print telling you they won't protect against C19.
 
"In this community-based, randomized controlled trial conducted in a setting where mask wearing was uncommon and was not among other recommended public health measures related to COVID-19, a recommendation to wear a surgical mask when outside the home among others did not reduce, at conventional levels of statistical significance, incident SARS-CoV-2 infection compared with no mask recommendation. "

In other words: during the time they tested, when levels in Denmark were already so well under control, they did not have the study power to detect a difference. Yep.
 
"In this community-based, randomized controlled trial conducted in a setting where mask wearing was uncommon and was not among other recommended public health measures related to COVID-19, a recommendation to wear a surgical mask when outside the home among others did not reduce, at conventional levels of statistical significance, incident SARS-CoV-2 infection compared with no mask recommendation. "
I don't think this reveals what you think it reveals.
 
Go read the side of the box that the manufacturers provide in print telling you they won't protect against C19.

I know; we covered this already.

No manufacturer is going to put that claim on a box w/o obtaining the evidence to demonstrate it.

And the masks are intended to prevent YOU from spreading the virus to OTHERS. Not to protect YOU FROM OTHERS.
 
Wrong.

It's is MULTIPLE studies, dating back to the 1930s on "viral inoculum".
Stay In Your Lane, Bro.

It’s more than that, we’ve known about the value of inoculation (or giving a small initial dose of a virus) since 1721. And wearing a mask around infected means you’re probably just getting an equivalent dose to the old inoculation dosage. Even George Washington saw the value in giving small amounts of smallpox to his soldiers so that they didn’t all die at the same time.
 
I know; we covered this already.

No manufacturer is going to put that claim on a box w/o obtaining the evidence to demonstrate it.

And the masks are intended to prevent YOU from spreading the virus to OTHERS. Not to protect YOU FROM OTHERS.
They would IF it did just that.
 
Alle Dinge sind Gift, und nichts ist ohne Gift, allein die Dosis macht dass ein Ding kein Gift ist.
All things are poison, and nothing is without poison, the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison.
—Paracelsus (died 24 September 1541)
 
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