Your Thoughts on Former Hawk Wrestler's Take On Iowa

[frydaze]

I posted this in the Hawkeye Lounge to a poster there and want to post it here to in order to hear from some of you here.

Last night at the PSU meet the guy who sat right behind me was a wrestler for Iowa in the late 1970s for Gable and somebody you'd definitely recognize. Very knowledgeable. Gable even came over after the meet to talk to him for awhile. (and FWIW Gable did not seem happy with the Iowa performance last night).

He said three things last night I wanted to hear how others here think.

Keep in mind he was over-the-top passionate, and was clearly frustrated with Iowa's last two performances against Okie State and PSU, so potentially his remarks were too critical but in the moment:

-Claimed Penn State's wrestling style under Sanderson, especially this year, is what Iowa's used to be. He continued on to say that very methodically over time the Gable brand style of wrestling has clearly "slowed down and lost aggressiveness" under Brands.

--He said Iowa's recruiting is improving but he just doesn't think Iowa will develop that talent in the same way Sanderson develops his at PSU.

-Overall, he said Iowa wrestling strong supporters are thinking in the same way that Nebraska football fans have been trapped into thinking--that we think we still are the kings of wrestling or right there close to the very top, but the reality is we simply no longer are and that we are sort of stuck in the same place right now as a program and have been for a few years.

 

[JohnBasedow]

Points 1 and 3 are fair but I strongly disagree with 2.

 

[pennsylvaniahawkeye]

Points 1 and 3 are fair but I strongly disagree with 2.

Unfortunately, I agree. Every year, we're in the 3-5 range and we haven't won a title since 2010 or 2011 I think.

 

[1stplacehawk]

1. Penn State wrestles that way because they have more talent. Not all of their guys wrestle that style. Just their super studs

2. We do as good of a job developing wrestlers as anybody

3. We are way way more relevant in wrestling than Nebraska is in football. Nebraska fans are annoying because they still think they're kings when they are nobodies. Iowa fans acknowledge that we need to get better at things, so we can match Penn State. People assuming that we should kill everyone because we're Iowa are the ones that more closely resemble Nebraska fans....delusional

 

[frydaze]

1. Penn State wrestles that way because they have more talent. Not all of their guys wrestle that style. Just their super studs

2. We do as good of a job developing wrestlers as anybody

3. We are way way more relevant in wrestling than Nebraska is in football. Nebraska fans are annoying because they still think they're kings when they are nobodies. Iowa fans acknowledge that we need to get better at things, so we can match Penn State. People assuming that we should kill everyone, because we're Iowa are the ones that more closely resemble Nebraska fans....delusional

Only saying this to poke fun, but on his point #3, I'm thinking he'd have lumped you into the group he was talking about, hahaha

 

[1stplacehawk]

Only saying this to poke fun, but on his point #3, I'm thinking he'd have lumped you into the group he was talking about, hahaha

But I'm not complacent or okay with not winning. If I didn't see young studs on the roster and more coming in, I would be yelling to burn the thing down

 

[Stanley75]

The biggest thing to remember Wrestling is changing and wrestling has changed over the years. I think Cael has been a big part of this. He has recruited better talent for sure. I think TnT are finally understanding this. Iowa cant' develop better than other schools can recruit. It is just that simple. We are improving our recruiting for sure.

We also need some individual NCs. This helps with recruiting. Lets start with 1 or 2 this year. I see some multiple NCs in the next 3 or four years. But we need to do some serious recruiting in the mean time. Lots of pressure on the G-man to get it done.

 

[AFHawk86]

I agree on all 3 points.

 

[djeatsot]

#2. Our recruiting looks like it's going to turn around in 3 to 5 years we might be back on top. Brands does a great job at developing his guys if you ask me. He takes lower ranked recruits and develops them enough to compete with Sanderson. IMO, it's remarkable that we can fight well against the best. As frustrating as last night was, I did see glimmers of hope during the meet. If carton would have won, Sorenson with the upset, Brooks not getting pinned, and Stoll wrestling....it was definitely possible to have won that with the crew we have now. I saw a lot of good things last night that gave me more hope than I originally thought.

 

[ih8iast8]

My only problem is Nebraska Football was never a dynasty over 2 decades like Iowa Wrestling was under Gable. Furthermore Iowa Wrestling hasn't fallen off as bad as Nebraska Football has. We are really 1-2 studs away from being right in the mix (with a healthy Stoll).

 

[Azchief32]

I posted this in the Hawkeye Lounge to a poster there and want to post it here to in order to hear from some of you here.

Last night at the PSU meet the guy who sat right behind me was a wrestler for Iowa in the late 1970s for Gable and somebody you'd definitely recognize. Very knowledgeable. Gable even came over after the meet to talk to him for awhile. (and FWIW Gable did not seem happy with the Iowa performance last night).

He said three things last night I wanted to hear how others here think.

Keep in mind he was over-the-top passionate, and was clearly frustrated with Iowa's last two performances against Okie State and PSU, so potentially his remarks were too critical but in the moment:

-Claimed Penn State's wrestling style under Sanderson, especially this year, is what Iowa's used to be. He continued on to say that very methodically over time the Gable brand style of wrestling has clearly "slowed down and lost aggressiveness" under Brands.

--He said Iowa's recruiting is improving but he just doesn't think Iowa will develop that talent in the same way Sanderson develops his at PSU.

-Overall, he said Iowa wrestling strong supporters are thinking in the same way that Nebraska football fans have been trapped into thinking--that we think we still are the kings of wrestling or right there close to the very top, but the reality is we simply no longer are and that we are sort of stuck in the same place right now as a program and have been for a few years.

Point A: Nolf, Bo, Zain, DT, Ed all personify Cael's aggressive style of wrestling. All were #1 in their weight class coming out. On this year's roster, there are three "unbeatables" and one got taken to overtime by a so called unaggressive plodder.

Point B: Kemerer is the first top ten guy who has started in our line up since Brent Metcalf. We had a fifth year senior, first year starter, go with their top ten p4p guy and should have won it until he blew it late in the third. They had another top ten guy in Cenzo who didn't look all that good against our Top 70 guy last night after the first period. We have Marinelli waiting to start, with Spencer Lee, Warner, and Teasdale coming in. For those keeping count: That's one top ten guy since Brands came here and five since the class of 2015. So really, the only "top recruit" that the 70s guy has to compare is Brent Metcalf (and maybe Ramos) and that turned out pretty well for Tom. When Cael was at ISU, did he develop his studs better than Tom? Spencer Lee is going to make Tom look like a genius. At PSU, Cael pretty much has his pick of the best PA guys and is just plain out recruiting everybody else.

Point C: Two big differences with the Nebraska and Gable comparison. Football recruits have a lot more choice. Wrestling recruits did in Gable's days as well. He didn't have to have a lot of "elite" recruits. Title IX hit and programs shrank...therefore the choice shrank and elite wrestlers were no longer spread around the country. Now, there are 8-10 go to schools...Iowa being one of them for a top ten kid. He might be right but then you didn't see us Super Iowa fans shit our pants after last night because I think we know they have more talent right now. That said, there are many reasons to look forward to the future. Lastly, as someone mentioned...times have changed since the 70s. Elite kids specialize and no longer play 2-3 sports in high school for the most part. They are wrestling all year around, getting experience on World teams and are ready to go once they hit college. PSU has had 5-8 Lincoln Macs hit the ground running since 2011 whereas Tom was using the old "recruit good guys for depth" paradigm.

 

[championhawk]

I agree on all 3 points.

I will play. Can you remark on all 10 Penn State wrestlers you watched last night? Maybe comment on their Iowa style aggressiveness and development compared to their rankings. I saw Zain Retherford stall out OT and a lot of the 3rd period for instance. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on how exciting PSU looked at 125,33, 41(he did break our guy), 49, 65, 74, and 97.

 

[reddogg26]

Fair points but here's the thing. Iowa high school wrestling is a joke compared to PA,NJ,CA and Ill. The lack of freestyle and Greco clubs and willingness to do this has put us behind the eight ball so to speak. Wrestling has evolved period!!! Its not about out working your opponent anymore. Its about getting as many #1's as you can and keeping them healthy. Now try to imagine how to get the top kids from those states to come to Iowa. Spencer Lee will help that process a TON!!! But its not going to happen overnight. Be careful what you wish for. BIG IF here but lets say they are forced out where do you go from there? We don't want to end up like the 49ers organization where NOBODY trusts them.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

The biggest thing to remember Wrestling is changing and wrestling has changed over the years. I think Cael has been a big part of this. He has recruited better talent for sure. I think TnT are finally understanding this. Iowa cant' develop better than other schools can recruit. It is just that simple. We are improving our recruiting for sure.

We also need some individual NCs. This helps with recruiting. Lets start with 1 or 2 this year. I see some multiple NCs in the next 3 or four years. But we need to do some serious recruiting in the mean time. Lots of pressure on the G-man to get it done.

I agree wholeheartedly, especially with the line I bolded. I do think that Iowa had been in a rut where they were getting good to very good recruits, but not 1 or 2 of the super elite HS grapplers per year that are an absolute requirement. I do see that as changed now though...Kemmerer, Marinelli, Lee, Teasdale, Young, etc. collectively change that scenario dramatically.

I do think that we felt like we could get 4-6 good ones per year, with an elite prospect or two in the mix, or not and then coach 'em up and/or Iowa style condition them to beat even better technical opponents and that was Nebraska like in that we weren't really comprehending that the world had changed. You could no longer win NC's via that route. You HAD to have 2-3 NC level wrestlers on the roster, complemented by 3-5 pretty solid, mid-to-low AA's too.

If anything, Iowa had the same, or even fewer, "hole" weights than the other top competitors, and there was plenty of consternation about that. But our real problem is that we just didn't have the same number of NC level wrestlers on the roster. 5 or 6 wrestlers finishing 3rd to 8th just doesn't score the same as 2 NC's to go along with 3 or 4 other AA level wrestlers, and that is without considering bonus points. Iowa is on the right path now I believe.

 

[frydaze]

My only problem is Nebraska Football was never a dynasty over 2 decades like Iowa Wrestling was under Gable. Furthermore Iowa Wrestling hasn't fallen off as bad as Nebraska Football has. We are really 1-2 studs away from being right in the mix (with a healthy Stoll).

His point on the Nebraska comparison was about Iowa fans think we should just snap our fingers and be the best again and demand to be a championship program each year. At one time we were. We are no longer and may never be again. Again, his words, not mine.

 

[AFHawk86]

I will play. Can you remark on all 10 Penn State wrestlers you watched last night? Maybe comment on their Iowa style aggressiveness and development compared to their rankings. I saw Zain Retherford stall out OT and a lot of the 3rd period for instance. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on how exciting PSU looked at 125,33, 41(he did break our guy), 49, 65, 74, and 97.

Hey Champ, I'll comment. I was pleased the Hawks weren't blown out in the individual matches. Then again, they've been more successful in general for duals than the national tourney...especially in CHA.

Concerning PSU...Carl recruits well and he develops well. I don't care what happened at ISU. It is my opinion that Carl has become a better coach as he's gained experience. My opinion on this matter isn't limited to last night's dual. It's an observation over a period of time against all opponents.

At 125 a true freshman wrestled his match, gave himself a chance to win, and put a RS senior on the ropes in the third. FWIW, I would've dinged Gilman for stalling as well. Would've sent the match to OT.

Not going to comment on 133.

You said it yourself at 141...

I agree with you about Zain's performance last night. I would have dinged him for stalling which would have given Sorensen the win. That didn't happen, however, and Brandon wasn't willing to pull the trigger in the third period or OT. If he had been willing, he would've won. Instead he got the L.

165 wasn't close. Joseph wore down after a fast start in the first period. Gunther never threatened because he refused to shoot.

At 174 I think Carl made a mistake. That said, Hall is/will be the better wrestler. He's an undersized true freshman wrestling his first "real" match in a high pressure situation. We all know he will be REALLY, REALLY good. Kudos to Meyer for his performance.

I thought Cutch was a butterball at 184 and now he's taking one for the team at 197. 197 is not a strong weight this year so there's a reasonable chance that he AA's. I saw this similarly to 165.

I've watched PSU this year and they are generally more exciting to watch against the same competition. They find a way to "catch" their opponents and win big. That's my opinion, doesn't make me any less of an Iowa fan. But I do appreciate good wrestling, and right now PSU is doing a better job regardless of the excuses we like to make.

 

[flaygik]

#2. Our recruiting looks like it's going to turn around in 3 to 5 years we might be back on top. Brands does a great job at developing his guys if you ask me. He takes lower ranked recruits and develops them enough to compete with Sanderson. IMO, it's remarkable that we can fight well against the best. As frustrating as last night was, I did see glimmers of hope during the meet. If carton would have won, Sorenson with the upset, Brooks not getting pinned, and Stoll wrestling....it was definitely possible to have won that with the crew we have now. I saw a lot of good things last night that gave me more hope than I originally thought.

If my aunt had n#ts she'd be my uncle

 

[Azchief32]

His point on the Nebraska comparison was about Iowa fans think we should just snap our fingers and be the best again and demand to be a championship program each year. At one time we were. We are no longer and may never be again. Again, his words, not mine.

I think it's the opposite...those that don't follow the sport but always take it for granted that we are supposed to be the best are like this. See every post NCAA thread on the past five years. We are flooded with football fans who went to some matches in the Gable years and start the fire Brands chant. Hell, look at last night's douchebag thread on Kemerer. The folks that posted in that thread have no idea who the hell Jason Nolf is.

 

[championhawk]

Hey Champ, I'll comment. I was pleased the Hawks weren't blown out in the individual matches. Then again, they've been more successful in general for duals than the national tourney...especially in CHA.

Concerning PSU...Carl recruits well and he develops well. I don't care what happened at ISU. It is my opinion that Carl has become a better coach as he's gained experience. My opinion on this matter isn't limited to last night's dual. It's an observation over a period of time against all opponents.

At 125 a true freshman wrestled his match, gave himself a chance to win, and put a RS senior on the ropes in the third. FWIW, I would've dinged Gilman for stalling as well. Would've sent the match to OT.

Not going to comment on 133.

You said it yourself at 141...

I agree with you about Zain's performance last night. I would have dinged him for stalling which would have given Sorensen the win. That didn't happen, however, and Brandon wasn't willing to pull the trigger in the third period or OT. If he had been willing, he would've won. Instead he got the L.

165 wasn't close. Joseph wore down after a fast start in the first period. Gunther never threatened because he refused to shoot.

At 174 I think Carl made a mistake. That said, Hall is/will be the better wrestler. He's an undersized true freshman wrestling his first "real" match in a high pressure situation. We all know he will be REALLY, REALLY good. Kudos to Meyer for his performance.

I thought Cutch was a butterball at 184 and now he's taking one for the team at 197. 197 is not a strong weight this year so there's a reasonable chance that he AA's. I saw this similarly to 165.

I've watched PSU this year and they are generally more exciting to watch against the same competition. They find a way to "catch" their opponents and win big. That's my opinion, doesn't make me any less of an Iowa fan. But I do appreciate good wrestling, and right now PSU is doing a better job regardless of the excuses we like to make.

Way to dance around it. Penn State has 3 or 4 exciting guys and a 6 or 7 ho hums. Their ho hums were number 1 ranked guys which didn't develop well. The majority of their team doesn't wrestle anything like the Iowa style. His 3 race horses alters the perception of the feeble minded, and drunk former wrestlers living in the past.

 

[jammenz]

Point B: Kemerer is the first top ten guy who has started in our line up since Brent Metcalf.

I'm the first to point out Penn State's disparity in recruiting success as the central reason for their newfound success, but you have forgotten #4 Mike Evans, #8 Nate Moore, and #10 Tony Ramos. You did have a four year dearth of top tens that has recently been rectified.

 

[Azchief32]

I'm the first to point out Penn State's disparity in recruiting success as the central reason for their newfound success, but you have forgotten #4 Mike Evans, #8 Nate Moore, and #10 Tony Ramos. You did have a four year dearth of top tens that has recently been rectified.

I mentioned Ramos up there. You're right on Evans and Moore...old age....good looking out Jammenz.

 

[HoundedHawk]

If carton would have won, Sorenson with the upset, Brooks not getting pinned, and Stoll wrestling....it was definitely possible to have won that with the crew we have now.

Oh, is that all?

 

[AFHawk86]

Way to dance around it. Penn State has 3 or 4 exciting guys and a 6 or 7 ho hums. Their ho hums were number 1 ranked guys which didn't develop well. The majority of their team doesn't wrestle anything like the Iowa style. His 3 race horses alters the perception of the feeble minded, and drunk former wrestlers living in the past.

Thanks bro. I take it you haven't watched PSU wrestle this year except against Iowa. Oh by the way, it doesn't take 10 exciting wrestlers to win a championship.

 

[Gobblin]

The guys sounds like broken record... Some real revolutionary stuff there.

Btw, he lost all cred with the Nebraska football comparison. Did he go by "Gator Bacon" by chance??

 

[Cal98]

Partially disagree. That old timer isn't paying attention to recruiting. Using D1CW's rankings, Iowa's top ranked dude in last night's lineup is Kemerer. He comes in at #8 p4p. Penn State has 8 guys in their lineup with higher p4p rankings. They have 8 guys who come in with loftier expectations than our top recruit.

Cael clearly is an excellent coach but he also gets to start with a Dream Team.

I'll also add- I sit behind the visiting bench. They are one of the most cohesive and supportive teams I've ever seen. It's super hard not to respect and appreciate this PSU team.

 

[championhawk]

Thanks bro. I take it you haven't watched PSU wrestle this year except against Iowa. Oh by the way, it doesn't take 10 exciting wrestlers to win a championship.

And way to further skirt away from the 3 topics in the OP you agreed with. You were probably one of the guys here complaining about Iowa's performance against Iowa state without Clark and Stoll. Another example of perception with the feeble minded.

 

[woodsiding]

Our lineup has 4 finalists and 7 AA (healthy Stoll and waiting a year to red-shirt the bull would have made 9 AA). That is not current Nebraska football, that is a hell of a team.

 

[ih8iast8]

His point on the Nebraska comparison was about Iowa fans think we should just snap our fingers and be the best again and demand to be a championship program each year. At one time we were. We are no longer and may never be again. Again, his words, not mine.

I understand his point & agreed. However, our fanbase dwelling on the past doesn't compare to Nebraskas football fanbase doing the same. That's the only point I was trying to make. They are completely out of touch with reality because they are nowhere near close to as good as they were for a few yrs in the 90's.

We on the other hand are very close to being a NC squad. So having high expectations is actually within the grasp of reality for our fan base.

 

[ih8iast8]

Our lineup has 4 finalists and 7 AA (healthy Stoll and waiting a year to red-shirt the bull would have made 9 AA). That is not current Nebraska football, that is a hell of a team.

My point exactly!

 

[AFHawk86]

And way to further skirt away from the 3 topics in the OP you agreed with. You were probably one of the guys here complaining about Iowa's performance against Iowa state without Clark and Stoll. Another example of perception with the feeble minded.

And you sir, are incapable of handling an opposing opinion without resorting to ad hominem attacks.

 

[JEDN]

I dont care about the comparison with Nebraska FB but as a long time fan I do know we are light years behind PSU in talent!

 

[Mike_a_TetonValley]

I posted this in the Hawkeye Lounge to a poster there and want to post it here to in order to hear from some of you here.

Last night at the PSU meet the guy who sat right behind me was a wrestler for Iowa in the late 1970s for Gable and somebody you'd definitely recognize. Very knowledgeable. Gable even came over after the meet to talk to him for awhile. (and FWIW Gable did not seem happy with the Iowa performance last night).

He said three things last night I wanted to hear how others here think.

Keep in mind he was over-the-top passionate, and was clearly frustrated with Iowa's last two performances against Okie State and PSU, so potentially his remarks were too critical but in the moment:

-Claimed Penn State's wrestling style under Sanderson, especially this year, is what Iowa's used to be. He continued on to say that very methodically over time the Gable brand style of wrestling has clearly "slowed down and lost aggressiveness" under Brands.

--He said Iowa's recruiting is improving but he just doesn't think Iowa will develop that talent in the same way Sanderson develops his at PSU.

-Overall, he said Iowa wrestling strong supporters are thinking in the same way that Nebraska football fans have been trapped into thinking--that we think we still are the kings of wrestling or right there close to the very top, but the reality is we simply no longer are and that we are sort of stuck in the same place right now as a program and have been for a few years.

1) Tom Brands is a very good wrestling coach and recruiter.
2) Penn State is more than likely easier to draw big time recruits (the state itself is loaded with talent).
3) I sure as hell did not see lack of effort last night on the mat. The meet was lost before it ever started with the Stoll injury, but the guys still came out battling to the end.

 

[ih8iast8]

I dont care about the comparison with Nebraska FB but as a long time fan I do know we are light years behind PSU in talent!

Stoll & 2 more studs puts us right there...that is certainly at least a light year. Smh

 

[clw421]

I think the big difference between Cael at psu and brands at Iowa has been talent. Both coaches develop their guys very well. There's just been a huge gap in talent. Looking at last night, carton (unranked out of high school) nearly knocks off guilibon (ranked #3 pfp out of hs), and Gunther (unranked out of high school) hangs with Joseph (top 10 pfp out of hs). Then you have sorenson, who wasn't as highly ranked as retherford coming out of hs closing the gap. If we can get better recruits, I think we can compete.

 

[woodsiding]

I dont care about the comparison with Nebraska FB but as a long time fan I do know we are light years behind PSU in talent!

We'll just disagree then...

 

[255]

Gable was clearly upset after the match.
Said things to many people around him that were heat of the moment. A lot of wrestlers from the last 40 years were there and the all had there take. After one spouted off a little, another champion looked at him and said "easy to sit here and say all that rather than be the guy doing the job". Even Alger said damn right.

Last 2 weeks were tough. No doubt. However, if there is any thought that someone else can do better is out there, it is a foolish thought. Brands has the toughest job in the sport. No team wrestles under more pressure in every match than the Hawks. I don't see many schools with as tough a schedule either.

As for team solidarity. Go sit in the room for a while before weigh in. There is a very close bond there. Tons of support for each other. Brands is very close to these guys. He walks around to EVERY single one and gives them what they need. They even smile.

Things are not what we want. To be fai, when they were, many still had complaints. There were 7 tough matches wrestled, 2 not so great and one tricky catch. Brands puplically owns the result. That's who we want. He will work to keep getting better. No titles for the next 5 years because of PSU? No title is given "on paper" and a lot can happen. We are here now. Let's see if the seemingly impossible can happen before we scratch this year and wait for next.

 

[frydaze]

1) Tom Brands is a very good wrestling coach and recruiter.
2) Penn State is more than likely easier to draw big time recruits (the state itself is loaded with talent).
3) I sure as hell did not see lack of effort last night on the mat. The meet was lost before it ever started with the Stoll injury, but the guys still came out battling to the end.

I too feel the Iowa effort last night was tremendous.

However, and let's be fair here, even with Stoll 100% healthy, this year Penn State is a much better team than is Iowa because they do have much more talent.

 

[KujawaFan]

The depth is what is hurting. Our top guns can compete but we have holes and any injuries are crushing. I know that is similar to almost all teams with the only 9.9 scholarships. But for a team wanting to be top podium not a chance for us. And this is no offense to the wrestlers but we can't run out Carton, Gunther, Wilke and Hollaway and expect to contend. That is 40 percent of our weights that collectively may get at best 2 points at Nationals. And as much as I love the team Gilman, Clark, Brandon, etc. they are not bonus point machines.

 

[frydaze]

Partially disagree. That old timer isn't paying attention to recruiting. Using D1CW's rankings, Iowa's top ranked dude in last night's lineup is Kemerer. He comes in at #8 p4p. Penn State has 8 guys in their lineup with higher p4p rankings. They have 8 guys who come in with loftier expectations than our top recruit.

Cael clearly is an excellent coach but he also gets to start with a Dream Team.

I'll also add- I sit behind the visiting bench. They are one of the most cohesive and supportive teams I've ever seen. It's super hard not to respect and appreciate this PSU team.

Your first paragraph totally supports the guy who I spoke of in the opening post. His claim is our recruiting has been far better in the past couple years but he didn't think it was where it needed to be for at least a few years before that--guess I forgot to add that.

As far as PSU's cohesiveness you referred to--I couldn't agree more. Their guys showed little emotion all night on the bench--same as Cael as a head coach. They had a complete business-like approach; but they absolutely are a TEAM.

 

[GG121AND2]

Point 1 - Iowa style or not Iowa style? I don't know. I have to say, however, strictly from a wrestling standpoint, I have generally found Penn State meets more fun to watch than Iowa meets for the last several years.

Point 2 - recruiting or development? You have to consider the starting point. It doesn't take much to take a Top 5 p4p kid to the top of the podium and if that kid is being coached by and working out with world class athletes, he has a great chance of himself becoming a world class athlete. If you're building from the base of low level Fargo AAs the development task is much greater and the potential upside, generally, lower.

A sidebar question - do you think the quality of high school coaching in Iowa has declined? Are they turning out far more "project" athletes than Algers, McGinnis', Ironsides and Juergens'? That impacts recruiting, depth and development.

Point 3 - I don't know about the Nebraska football comparison, but I agree that many (most?) Iowa fans have unrealistic expectations based on what we have seen in intercollegiate wrestling over the past 5 or 6 years. Yes, I understand that the Hawks have had some bad luck with injuries and recruit defection in that time period, but I think the gap between Penn State and everyone else is obvious. Is it "perpetual", ala the Gable years? I'm not smart enough to say.