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DT - Brooks

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Jackhawk87

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Dec 15, 2007
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SIAP, but is Brooks really the better wrestler?

I know he won both matches and DT was unable to muster any offense against him, but that is kind of the point. Is the lack of offense because they are in the same room and Brooks was able to anticipate Taylor’s moves? Brooks got taken down by a high schooler and Valencia got a fair amount through his defense, so although his defense is good, it isn’t impenetrable. I am sure Nolf vs Dake and Retherford vs Lee are similar, but everyone has difficulty scoring on Dake.

Many people leave rooms so they avoid this issue. Do we see the vaunted NLWC losing some guys? Or is the cult of Carl so strong he avoids it.

Or did god just want Brooks to win more than DT (that is for you Vodka)?
 
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it’s a good question. they do seem to handle it well but it is likely the familiarity had an impact on it and at some point there will be questions

i could see brooks moving to 92kg then eventually 97kg for next olympics so they could have an issue with snyder and brooks next cycle.
 
Jackhawk87 said:
SIAP, but is Brooks really the better wrestler?

I know he won both matches and DT was unable to muster any offense against him, but that is kind of the point. Is the lack of offense because they are in the same room and Brooks was able to anticipate Taylor’s moves? Brooks got taken down by a high schooler and Valencia got a fair amount through his defense, so although his defense is good, it isn’t impenetrable. I am sure Nolf vs Dake and Retherford vs Lee are similar, but everyone has difficulty scoring on Dake.

Many people leave rooms so they avoid this issue. Do we see the vaunted NLWC losing some guys? Or is the cult of Carl so strong he avoids it.

Or did god just want Brooks to win more than DT (that is for you Vodka)?
Click to expand...

I think age was the difference. Burroughs and Taylor are both all time greats but clearly far from their peak. They both looked physically slower, weaker, and less energetic.
 
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Familiarity evens the playing field. Dake is an all time great but Nolf wasn’t going to score a point against him in 20 more minutes. Dake knew every move Nolf might try. Sooner or later that will become an issue for the club.
 
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Not just familiarity but how can either wrestler be sure they are going to be getting the very best from their coaches and coaches won't play favorites? A Ramos/Dennis type situation is bound to pop up eventually where one guy has hurt feelings because a coach is going to corner the other guy, etc. Surprised it hasn't already happened. It makes no sense to train in the same room with your #1 rival for an Olympic spot for many reasons, but we know the money at that particular RTC dwarfs all others combined so.....
 
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Is_there_vodka_in_heaven said:
I think age was the difference. Burroughs and Taylor are both all time greats but clearly far from their peak. They both looked physically slower, weaker, and less energetic.
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Totally agree. Seemed like a changing of the guard at many weights. Burroughs, Taylor, Cox, Gilman; Gray on the women's side. Dake would appear to be the outlier. 33 years old and still the boss at his weight.
 
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Maybe all of them training at the same place is not the best for team USA. Snyder has not become a better wrestler at their club. Dake was this good before he went there and Taylor not being able to finish a shot on Brooks made me think he should have been training elsewhere also.
 
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It looked to me like Nolf was just thrown out there against Dake with no plan - no nothing. The coaching conflict of interest really showed there. Nolf probably couldn't have won regardless, but after Sidakov I was expecting to see Nolf snapping relentlessly on Dake's head. Instead, it looked like the NLWC coaches just wished Nolf "good luck" and pushed him out there.
 
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Jackhawk87 said:
SIAP, but is Brooks really the better wrestler?

I know he won both matches and DT was unable to muster any offense against him, but that is kind of the point. Is the lack of offense because they are in the same room and Brooks was able to anticipate Taylor’s moves? Brooks got taken down by a high schooler and Valencia got a fair amount through his defense, so although his defense is good, it isn’t impenetrable. I am sure Nolf vs Dake and Retherford vs Lee are similar, but everyone has difficulty scoring on Dake.

Many people leave rooms so they avoid this issue. Do we see the vaunted NLWC losing some guys? Or is the cult of Carl so strong he avoids it.

Or did god just want Brooks to win more than DT (that is for you Vodka)?
Click to expand...
He beat him twice in a row. He was better yesterday. And it wasn’t really close. Brooks had no advantage due to familiarity. That goes both ways. Brooks was better and it was pretty evident.
 
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pablow said:
It looked to me like Nolf was just thrown out there against Dake with no plan - no nothing. The coaching conflict of interest really showed there. Nolf probably couldn't have won regardless, but after Sidakov I was expecting to see Nolf snapping relentlessly on Dake's head. Instead, it looked like the NLWC coaches just wished Nolf "good luck" and pushed him out there.
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Do you really think that’s true? Pretty odd take.
 
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eb05 said:
it’s a good question. they do seem to handle it well but it is likely the familiarity had an impact on it and at some point there will be questions

i could see brooks moving to 92kg then eventually 97kg for next olympics so they could have an issue with snyder and brooks next cycle.
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Snyder will be 32 next time. Taylor is 33 now. I just feel that the grind and pull from family life has a real effect on these guys. How could it not? You miss the occasional training for a child's milestone and eventually they add up. Brooks doesn't have that pull.

Dake amazes me. He is mentally on another planet, but also doesn't wrestle to where his body suffers greatly. Did you notice he had zero wraps of any kind on his body and he is 33.
 
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AFHawk86 said:
DT didn’t look right. He looked like the more inexperienced wrestler despite his dominant success on the world stage. And Brooks wouldn’t even have made the finals if not for the singlet pull. I’m interested to see how Brooks fares in the Olympics after beating DT. Was it a fluke or has the baton been passed?
Click to expand...
Time may tell…
 
AFHawk86 said:
DT didn’t look right. He looked like the more inexperienced wrestler despite his dominant success on the world stage. And Brooks wouldn’t even have made the finals if not for the singlet pull. I’m interested to see how Brooks fares in the Olympics after beating DT. Was it a fluke or has the baton been passed?
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Brooks was going to take this weight sooner or later. But, I didn't think it would be this year. That's the worst version of DT I've ever seen.
 
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My guess is, Babblin will not do well at the O for several reasons. Guess we shall see?
 
pablow said:
Brook was going to take this weight sooner or later. But, I didn't think it would be this year. That's the worst version of DT I've ever seen.
Click to expand...

Thought Brooks would lose this year and bump to 92 and eventually to 97 and supplant Snyder. Don’t know how the hell he makes 86. Jesus really did take the wheel getting him down to weight.
 
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IAChief32 said:
Thought Brooks would lose this year and bump to 92 and eventually to 97 and supplant Snyder. Don’t know how the hell he makes 86. Jesus really did take the wheel getting him down to weight.
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As big as he looks i think hes also around 5'8". that would be a disadvantage going much higher. hes on the short side for 174 or even 165 if that's the case
 
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Eph97 said:
Not just familiarity but how can either wrestler be sure they are going to be getting the very best from their coaches and coaches won't play favorites? A Ramos/Dennis type situation is bound to pop up eventually where one guy has hurt feelings because a coach is going to corner the other guy, etc. Surprised it hasn't already happened. It makes no sense to train in the same room with your #1 rival for an Olympic spot for many reasons, but we know the money at that particular RTC dwarfs all others combined so.....
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The corner issue has happened, in the 2021 Olympic trials with Taylor and Nickal. They’ve since took measures to get ahead of it. And Taylor and Brooks have different practice times and haven’t wrestled each other in the room in over 2 years.
 
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Dwayne_Johnson33 said:
The corner issue has happened, in the 2021 Olympic trials with Taylor and Nickal. They’ve since took measures to get ahead of it. And Taylor and Brooks have different practice times and haven’t wrestled each other in the room in over 2 years.
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This. The NLWC is essentially the new Olympic training center. They have enough elite training partners and coaches that they can separate competitors from each other within the same club. The Hawkeye wrestler club isn't close to that.
 
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Sett1997 said:
Taylor didn't look as cut and big to me yesterday as I'm used to seeing him. My just be my eyes but that's my opinion.
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He’s older than Terry was for his 2000 run for a little perspective. It certainly doesn’t get any easier as you pass 30 and 33+ is ancient for a wrestler. Training techniques have advanced but the margins are razor thin at their level. Even for Dake, aging backwards jokes aside, the end is always closer than it seems. Before you know it, you’re done. Keep in mind we are only seeing most of these senior level guys 2/3 times a year. We don’t see any gradual dropoff. We’ve gone through a whole college season since the last time some of these world medalists have wrestled in front of the public.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
Others share that opinion as well. Just look at his Olympic pics for comparison.
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I'm sad, love Taylor. Was looking forward to him at the Olympics.
Tough to keep that edge juggling everything he has going on.
I'm still shocked he lost.
 
moug said:
He’s older than Terry was for his 2000 run for a little perspective. It certainly doesn’t get any easier as you pass 30 and 33+ is ancient for a wrestler. Training techniques have advanced but the margins are razor thin at their level. Even for Dake, aging backwards jokes aside, the end is always closer than it seems. Before you know it, you’re done. Keep in mind we are only seeing most of these senior level guys 2/3 times a year. We don’t see any gradual dropoff. We’ve gone through a whole college season since the last time some of these world medalists have wrestled in front of the public.
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In Taylor's documentary he mentioned how difficult it is to be the 1% of the 1%
Never heard that phrase before, it stuck with me.
Prophetic.
 
Sadly US wrestling us set up for only short term success for our wrestlers. By the time they finish college, a good chunk of their competitive life is already burnt. Very hard to keep sharp for more than one Olympic cycle when you start have to balance marriage, kids and financial security. Youth has an advantage, international teams have a distinct advantage only having freestyle to train for.
 
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Grip220 said:
Maybe all of them training at the same place is not the best for team USA. Snyder has not become a better wrestler at their club. Dake was this good before he went there and Taylor not being able to finish a shot on Brooks made me think he should have been training elsewhere also.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what i was thinking....they invited the best and bragged about having the best in their room to train with....now the BEST beat them ...based a lot on familiarity..... and n ow the best moves on and your guys are at home.
 
HawkeyePA said:
This is exactly what i was thinking....they invited the best and bragged about having the best in their room to train with....now the BEST beat them ...based a lot on familiarity..... and n ow the best moves on and your guys are at home.
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The NLWC has a protocol in place where close rivals do not drill together. They have schedules that do not have them even in the room together let alone wrestle with each other. DT and AB have not wrestled against one another in two years. So you can't blame DT losing on familiarity with each other. It didn't happen.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
The NLWC has a protocol in place where close rivals do not drill together. They have schedules that do not have them even in the room together let alone wrestle with each other. DT and AB have not wrestled against one another in two years. So you can't blame DT losing on familiarity with each other. It didn't happen.
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Interesting. So what is the point of having all this talent in the room if they don't work out together? That begs the question who do they work out with then?
 
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dmlawdad said:
Interesting. So what is the point of having all this talent in the room if they don't work out together? That begs the question who do they work out with then?
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I'm not sure but I think Aaron Brooks was David Tayler's training partner for the worlds recently. I forget exactly when.
 
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A previous poster mentioned that in 2021, the NLWC had an issue with Nickal and DT having the same coaches. Nolf and Dake for example have separate coaches, separate schedules, and do not wrestle each other, but they do wrestle more junior FS guys like or Barr or MM or someone outside their weight class. All to do exactly what you would expect. To keep everything on the up and up and not play favorites.

I may be wrong, but I don't recall seeing Cael corner one guy this past weekend where two NLWC/PSU guys were opponents. He was neutral.
 
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Sett1997 said:
I'm sad, love Taylor. Was looking forward to him at the Olympics.
Tough to keep that edge juggling everything he has going on.
I'm still shocked he lost.
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This. Almost impossible to win if you’re not all in.

DT has 3 young girls including a baby. He has the M2 and a couple businesses. There’s only 24hrs in a day and so much energy in a person. You slip by 1% and you lose.

A constant refrain this weekend was, “I thought I was done until January.” Gilman and Zain both said it. I’m sure the guys who retired all thought it (Cox, Hall, Marinelli, etc).
 
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