The EV Backlash Builds!!!

[BioHawk]

I understand perfectly. Take away energy independence so you can push an EV agenda as the only solution.

As always, you twist what I say because it's easier than facing the truth. I'm not anti EV. I'm anti government trying to force EV's on everyone.

You really don't understand the situation if you think that eliminating our need for gasoline for cars is taking away energy independence. That's the Earth is only 6000 years old level of denial right there.

It is in our nation's national security interests to remove our dependence on oil for many of the things we do. So of course the government is going to do what they need to do to make that happen. That's their job. And here you are, pissing and moaning like you were just asked to storm Omaha beach.

 

[Slappy Pappy]

I drive 45 miles round trip every day for work. My wife drives just shy of 100. Electric vehicles would be perfect for us, but I’m not ready to buy. We also have a truck to pull our camper. I see no foreseeable path for us purchasing an EV for that in our lifetime.

They have their place.

You are actually in the IDEAL situation for buying an ev. Two car family, make one an ev (it will end up being the one you always take for around town short trips), and one gas car for pulling your camper.

 

[Finance85]

You really don't understand the situation if you think that eliminating our need for gasoline for cars is taking away energy independence. That's the Earth is only 6000 years old level of denial right there.

It is in our nation's national security interests to remove our dependence on oil for many of the things we do. So of course the government is going to do what they need to do to make that happen. That's their job. And here you are, pissing and moaning like you were just asked to storm Omaha beach.

Changing the goalpost, just like your buddy Joes Place. Your reading comprehension is about the same as well. It's a self made crisis. We have the ability to be self sustaining. We have the ability to make the transition a smoother one without government edicts.

The fundamental difference between you and I is that you believe the government is the answer, and I believe they are the problem. Government is always less efficient.

Get back to me when they get the 3rd charging station built for out $7.5B "investment" over 2 years.

 

[BioHawk]

Changing the goalpost, just like your buddy Joes Place. Your reading comprehension is about the same as well. It's a self made crisis. We have the ability to be self sustaining. We have the ability to make the transition a smoother one without government edicts.

The fundamental difference between you and I is that you believe the government is the answer, and I believe they are the problem. Government is always less efficient.

How did I change the goalpost? Just because I refuse to let you dictate my position on it doesn't change anything. Although to be fair, it was others trying to dictate my position more so than you. An unregulated private market is rarely better than a guided private market. The private market is terrible for many things, like providing health care and education to the people. It also sucks for providing transportation, at least on its own.

The bottom line is, the private market always goes for the cheapest path and the one that presents the greatest profit. Always. And they don't care who gets trampled over in their pursuit of profit. Without assistance and urging, companies would not be investing the time and money into switching to electric power. If your idea of "companies will do this naturally" worked even the slightest bit, we would be able to travel high speed rail lines from Los Angeles to New York today. But because of the massive costs required to start it, the private market isn't making it happen. Well, that and a healthy dose of bribery from the airline industries and car manufacturers to keep it from happening (Oh look! The private market standing in the way of progress again).

Of course, you will read this and take it to mean that I think there shouldn't be any private market and the government should do everything, which is not even close to the truth. We need a system where the private market is allowed to do it's thing, but within a ruleset provided by the government and with the government occasionally guiding the direction the private market goes, based on our national interests.

 

[Finance85]

How did I change the goalpost? Just because I refuse to let you dictate my position on it doesn't change anything. Although to be fair, it was others trying to dictate my position more so than you. An unregulated private market is rarely better than a guided private market. The private market is terrible for many things, like providing health care and education to the people. It also sucks for providing transportation, at least on its own.

The bottom line is, the private market always goes for the cheapest path and the one that presents the greatest profit. Always. And they don't care who gets trampled over in their pursuit of profit. Without assistance and urging, companies would not be investing the time and money into switching to electric power. If your idea of "companies will do this naturally" worked even the slightest bit, we would be able to travel high speed rail lines from Los Angeles to New York today. But because of the massive costs required to start it, the private market isn't making it happen. Well, that and a healthy dose of bribery from the airline industries and car manufacturers to keep it from happening (Oh look! The private market standing in the way of progress again).

Of course, you will read this and take it to mean that I think there shouldn't be any private market and the government should do everything, which is not even close to the truth. We need a system where the private market is allowed to do it's thing, but within a ruleset provided by the government and with the government occasionally guiding the direction the private market goes, based on our national interests.

You know what's a national security threat? Forcing technology that ultimately relies on rare elements primarily produced in China, while simultaneously shutting down mines in the US.

A little off topic but related. Who supplies the vast majority of solar panels to the US? Wouldn't that be the same or worse than relying on middle eastern oil (which we don't have to)?

 

[Rifler]

We need a system where the private market is allowed to do it's thing, but within a ruleset provided by the government and with the government occasionally guiding the direction the private market goes, based on our national interests.

Wonderful,.. provided this governmental direction is always correct, well thought out, and fairly imposed,.. Cue the current reality where we are being governed by idiots.

 

[BioHawk]

You know what's a national security threat? Forcing technology that ultimately relies on rare elements primarily produced in China, while simultaneously shutting down mines in the US.

Honestly, if this is what you have left to debate then there's not much left to discuss. If we need the materials, we will find a way to get the materials.

 

[BioHawk]

Wonderful,.. Provided this governmental direction is always correct, well thought out, and fairly imposed,.. Cue the current reality where we are being governed by idiots.

That's why the government, at least the House, isn't getting anything done. We get the government we vote for (or at least the government the flawed electoral college system gives us). You can't operate in "What ifs". It's why you don't vote for anti-science morons who won't listen to anybody because it might mean acknowledging that they aren't the smartest person in the world in every subject. It's not a perfect system, but it is imperfect because idiots get elected. It is certainly better than a private company that you have zero ability to influence or change. At least with the government you can vote people out.

 

[theiacowtipper]

You are actually in the IDEAL situation for buying an ev. Two car family, make one an ev (it will end up being the one you always take for around town short trips), and one gas car for pulling your camper.

I like it but we need a truck for the camper as it’s a 5th wheel. I think we can do two EVs but what I would do it buy one and use it for trips and see whether I thought it would work for us before I decided to buy another.

 

[Rifler]

It is certainly better than a private company that you have zero ability to influence or change. At least with the government you can vote people out.

No actually it's not, primarily because our political system no longer attracts our best and brightest,.. A bad business will go broke, but a bad politician will either get re-elected or simply replaced with another bad politician.. No one with real talent and intelligence chooses a political career in this country anymore...

 

[BioHawk]

No actually it's not, primarily because our political system no longer attracts our best and brightest,.. A bad business will go broke, but a bad politician will either get re-elected or simply replaced with another bad politician.. No one with real talent and intelligence chooses a political career in this country anymore...

Yes it is. Consequences only happen to private businesses until after people are dead. How many people were killed because of Boeing's negligence? Purdue? Even after people are dead, has anyone faced any consequences? Purdue is out of business, but the Sadler family walked away with billions. Even if the class action suit goes against them they will likely still be in pretty good shape.

 

[Joes Place]

I understand perfectly. Take away energy independence

How does shifting to green energy "take away energy independence" Cletus?

It removes loads of corrupt regimes from the geopolitical stage; they no longer hold the world hostage for their energy sources...

 

[Joes Place]

The fundamental difference between you and I is that you believe the government is the answer, and I believe they are the problem.

The fundamental flaw for you here is that corporations (Exxon, Koch) have trillions tied up in fossil fuels, and they will destroy the climate to squeeze as much out of those assets as they can.

They will have enough money to move wherever they need to and adapt. Most of us will not.

 

[Joes Place]

No actually it's not, primarily because our political system no longer attracts our best and brightest

That's because the Koch brothers 'primary' the sane people and put in folks who will bow to their whims. And you're too naive to recognize the propaganda they push and fall right in line with it.

 

[Rifler]

Yes it is. Consequences only happen to private businesses until after people are dead. How many people were killed because of Boeing's negligence? Purdue? Even after people are dead, has anyone faced any consequences? Purdue is out of business, but the Sadler family walked away with billions. Even if the class action suit goes against them they will likely still be in pretty good shape.

So apparently your governmental overlords failed you in all those cases,... Businesses pay a price for bad behavior when it's imposed by the public.

 

[Hawki97]

The only thing building is my car boner for the next round of EVs. God damn beautiful. It sure will look nice sitting next to my Tacoma ICE.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Oh look. This conversation again. One person doesn't mean shit. We either all do it or none of us are doing it. But I do what I can.

Translation = he doesn't walk the talk.

 

[BioHawk]

Translation = he doesn't walk the talk.

Outside of my car and heating my home and cooking, I'm basically carbon neutral. None of the electricity I use on a daily basis originates from a source that produces carbon wastes. I will be buying an electric vehicle with my next purchase. How about you?

 

[HawkInDC]

The only thing building is my car boner for the next round of EVs. God damn beautiful. It sure will look nice sitting next to my Tacoma ICE.

My wife and I have always owned cars for the long term...like 10 years. However, we are currently in the market for two cars as the minivan is at end of life and the kids are older and are starting to drive. Still, we have soccer carpools and some occasional long road trips, so need to account for that.

That's a long winded way of getting to the point that I have been doing a lot of research into new cars and we made decision to never own another pure ICE car.

There are some beautiful designs out there and on the way (see above)!

We made the call to get a PHEV SUV for the carpools and long road trips and an EV for the third car. For PHEV, I suspect we won't need to get gas more than every couple of months based on our driving habits.

While I think EV's are set to capture a majority of the market in the coming decade, I would acknowledge one point from the detractors. I think Ford's decision to roll out a big truck EV was not a good one. The market demographics are wrong and the solution is a bad fit for the use case of towing and hauling.

 

[alaskanseminole]

New tires every 7,000 miles? Electric cars save gas but tire wear shocks some Florida drivers

“If somebody looked at me and said ... you are going to love this car but in about 7,000 miles you will have to pay 1,400 or 1,500 dollars to replace the tires, I wouldn’t have bought the car.”

www.yahoo.com

 

[Joes Place]

New tires every 7,000 miles? Electric cars save gas but tire wear shocks some Florida drivers

“If somebody looked at me and said ... you are going to love this car but in about 7,000 miles you will have to pay 1,400 or 1,500 dollars to replace the tires, I wouldn’t have bought the car.”

www.yahoo.com

Don't drive it like an F1 racer, and you can get 25-30k out of those tires, buddy.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Don't drive it like an F1 racer, and you can get 25-30k out of those tires, Mr. Neil Semel.

FIFY

 

[Finance85]

Honestly, if this is what you have left to debate then there's not much left to discuss. If we need the materials, we will find a way to get the materials.

You are the one throwing out the national security threat. Didn't quite think that one all the way through, did you?

Toyota will be the big winner in the resistance to total EV's. They are hedging their bets with a hydrogen fuel solution. Now that we've seen the downside of all EV, Toyota might have a chance. I'm sure the politicians in the pockets of China will resist that notion.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Outside of my car and heating my home and cooking, I'm basically carbon neutral. None of the electricity I use on a daily basis originates from a source that produces carbon wastes. I will be buying an electric vehicle with my next purchase. How about you?

I depend on my vehicle to actually drive places so I won't be purchasing an EV, I have no plan on being a slave to the lack of charging stations in the USA.

In addition living in the midwest it gets cold and EV's just don't cut it in freezing weather.

Most EV's are rather ugly in appearance and bland imo. Most are just a smidge bigger than a Smart Car.

BTW you're not even close to being carbon neutral.

 

[BioHawk]

I depend on my vehicle to actually drive places so I won't be purchasing an EV, I have no plan on being a slave to the lack of charging stations in the USA.

In addition living in the midwest it gets cold and EV's just don't cut it in freezing weather.

Most EV's are rather ugly in appearance and bland imo. Most are just a smidge bigger than a Smart Car.

BTW you're not even close to being carbon neutral.

It's a good thing I didn't claim to be carbon neutral. But that would mean reading words and then not inventing your own interpretation of them. Not your strong suit.