The Right to Die In a Dignified Manner

[jonesy5960]

Once societal and peer pressure gets introduced it's not about people making their own choice anymore. And those pressures will always exist.

Those pressure should always slant towards life with only the most dire situations should society/peer pressure remain neutral.

You're simply applying your own personal biases over the wishes and personal freedoms of another. What gives you the right to do that?

 

[jonesy5960]

I'm not stopping anyone from killing themselves I'm saying they have to do it by their own hand.

To the best of my knowledge, it is always "by their own hands". The tool or approach might be different, but the action is always initiated by the individual in question.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

You're simply applying your own personal biases over the wishes and personal freedoms of another. What gives you the right to do that?

The bias towards life?

That used to be a universal bias in our society. And I would argue that allowing people who are not terminal to make decisions to get assisted suicide is a bias towards death. What choice do you expect depressed people to make?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

To the best of my knowledge, it is always "by their own hands". The tool or approach might be different, but the action is always initiated by the individual in question.

It wasn't when a woman with dementia was held down by her family while the doctor introduced euthanasia.

 

[JWolf74]

It's happening in Belgium.

They're not doing it willy nilly as you suggest.

 

[jonesy5960]

It wasn't when a woman with dementia was held down by her family while the doctor introduced euthanasia.

The case you mentioned was in the Netherlands where euthanasia is performed. The United States does not allow euthanasia, only physician assisted suicide.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

They're not doing it willy nilly as you suggest.

They are killing 40 non terminal people a year back when the article was written. I would assume it's only grown since then.

 

[jonesy5960]

The bias towards life?

That used to be a universal bias in our society. And I would argue that allowing people who are not terminal to make decisions to get assisted suicide is a bias towards death. What choice do you expect depressed people to make?

No. It's a bias towards mercy vs simply forcing someone to suffer through an existence where any quality of life has passed. And no, depression doesn't qualify for assisted suicide in states that allow it.

 

[JWolf74]

The bias towards life?

That used to be a universal bias in our society. And I would argue that allowing people who are not terminal to make decisions to get assisted suicide is a bias towards death. What choice do you expect depressed people to make?

You don't care if they decide to take their life, you just want them to do it in some gruesome manner on their own and make a loved one of stranger deal with that trauma.

It's a selfish position, IMHO.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

You don't care if they decide to take their life, you just want them to do it in some gruesome manner on their own and make a loved one of stranger deal with that trauma.

It's a selfish position, IMHO.

Because when a doctor does it, it sends a message to society that if you are ever in the dark deep hole of depression or if you've had a traumatic life event just happen to you that suicide is an acceptable way out of it instead of encouraging them to work towards a light in their life.

I'm the person that tells the person on the bridge not to jump. You tell them you will push them if it makes it easier.

For the most part I'd be ok with it if I held the confidence that it would stay to just terminally ill patients. The Neatherlands and Belgium have shown otherwise by offing depressed people, autistic people, mentally ill people.

 

[JWolf74]

Because when a doctor does it, it sends a message to society that if you are ever in the dark deep hole of depression or if you've had a traumatic life event just happen to you that suicide is an acceptable way out of it instead of encouraging them to work towards a light in their life.

I'm the person that tells the person on the bridge not to jump. You tell them you will push them if it makes it easier.

For the most part I'd be ok with it if I held the confidence that it would stay to just terminally ill patients. The Neatherlands and Belgium have shown otherwise by offing depressed people, autistic people, mentally ill people.

You think a depressed or medically terminally ill person walks in to the office and would be immediately euthanized at their request? That's not how it works.

Telling someone who's tried everything for their depression and still wishes to die because the treatments aren't effective to off themselves and try to not make a mess is pretty unempathetic.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

You think a depressed or medically terminally ill person walks in to the office and would be immediately euthanized at their request? That's not how it works.

Telling someone who's tried everything for their depression and still wishes to die because the treatments aren't effective to off themselves and try to not make a mess is pretty unempathetic.

And giving them the poison to do it is?

 

[SB_SB]

And giving them the poison to do it is?

It can be. I guess they could talk to you and you'll tell them to" keep their chin up and someday things will get better, but if you decide to kill yourself then don't tell me because I don't want to deal with it".

 

[JWolf74]

And giving them the poison to do it is?

Compared to blowing their brains out, hanging themselves, jumping off a building, etc and leaving a mess and trauma for the people who find them and have to deal with it? Absolutely.

 

[JustSayOV]

Because when a doctor does it, it sends a message to society that if you are ever in the dark deep hole of depression or if you've had a traumatic life event just happen to you that suicide is an acceptable way out of it instead of encouraging them to work towards a light in their life.

I'm the person that tells the person on the bridge not to jump. You tell them you will push them if it makes it easier.

For the most part I'd be ok with it if I held the confidence that it would stay to just terminally ill patients. The Neatherlands and Belgium have shown otherwise by offing depressed people, autistic people, mentally ill people.

While I don't think I necessarily disagree with your premise or over-arching point of view on this whole subject (trying to follow along here throughout all the posts), I think my point of contention with you is that you are not leaving any gray area....

....and I don't mean gray area as far as the legal standpoint as I do agree with you there with the doctor side and all that can go wrong or be abused, but I mean the gray area in that you seem to imply there is no justifiable reason that someone should (or want to) be able to choose assisted suicide. It appears you are always pro-life regardless of any circumstance.

I unfortunately have a first hand example of one such situation where your quote "working towards a light in their life" is something that I have to admittedly accept is not plausible and this person is not able to just decide on their own to physically end their life as they are not physically capable. If this person just chooses to stop accepting food and wants a slow agonizing death, then yes they have that control, but to tell this person (should they want to be assisted by professionals under sound mind) that they can not, I think is wrong.

100% agree it is a fine line to walk and a scary slope of what could happen and be abused, but i do think there are acceptable situations where a person of sound mind should be able to make that decision.

 

[gohawks50]

Compared to blowing their brains out, hanging themselves, jumping off a building, etc and leaving a mess and trauma for the people who find them and have to deal with it? Absolutely.

As well as involving the authorities that have to investigate their deaths.

 

[Capernum]

I don't think that is necessarily true for all clergy and former clergy.

Of course not. I am clergy, and what I said was every other clergy person I know. I cannot speak for all, but I can tell you that it's a common topic of conversation in my professional circles.

 

[BrianNole777]

Of course not. I am clergy, and what I said was every other clergy person I know. I cannot speak for all, but I can tell you that it's a common topic of conversation in my professional circles.

Do you talk about what happens after death?