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Which is worse, Israel’s lies about Gaza or its western backers who repeat those lies?

There you go. Believing what you're told. Because neither our government or media nor Israel's government or media ever lie.

Good sheep.
I'm glad you recognize that our government lies.

Back on topic, Hamas has taken civilian hostages, and had brutalized some of them. I don't think that's not a fact.

Hamas, as well as Iran and other proxies, have launched missile attacks on Israel. I think that's a fact.

Hamas has hidden their terrorists behind civilian shields, in the past and ongoing. I think that's a fact.

So assuming there's propaganda as described in the original post, and much of which I haven't seen, it's only a matter of degrees. Israel has always responded to attacks in an eye-for-eye-plus one fashion.

How can we be sure there's not an equal amount of propaganda coming from Hamas? Because someone said alleged events didn't actually happen? How do we know who's telling the truth, if there's any truth at all?
 

Which is worse, Israel’s lies about Gaza or its western backers who repeat those lies?​

Mehdi Hasan

Since the horrific 7 October attack, the far-right Israeli government and its army of propagandists have deceived and fooled Western politicians and journalists not once or twice, but multiple times.

There are almost too many lies, distortions and falsehoods to keep track of. Forty babies beheaded by Hamas? Never happened. Babies baked in ovens or hung on clothes lines? False. A Bond-villain-style lair hidden under al-Shifa hospital? Nope. Palestinians in Gaza caught on camera faking their injuries? A complete fabrication. The list of Hamas hostage-takers found on a wall in the al-Rantisi children’s hospital? Sorry, no, it was just the days of the week on a calendar in Arabic.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ards-children-european-hospital-injured-dying
How about the atrocities that Israeli forces have been credibly accused of, that they then loudly denied, and then later … were found to be responsible for? The flour massacre in February? The bombing of the refugee convoy last October? The white phosphorus attack in southern Lebanon, also in October?

As my friend the Palestinian-American analyst Omar Baddar laid out in a now-viral tweet:

Yet the Israelis keep telling lies and our political and media elites in the west keep getting fooled. Shame on them.

Perhaps no Israeli lie, however, has been more damaging, more destructive, more deadly, than the claim that Unrwa – the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, the main organization responsible for providing aid in Gaza – has been colluding with Hamas and, worse, that 12 Unrwa employees participated in the terror attack on 7 October. Why? Because it was a lie so consequential that it helped lay the groundwork for a devastating, ongoing, man-made famine inside the Gaza Strip.

In late January, after a relentless anti-Unrwa campaign by Israel and its proxies in the west which culminated in the unproven accusation that Unrwa employees were involved in the 7 October atrocities, 16 donor countries, including Unrwa’s main financial sponsor, the United States, suspended around $450m funding to the agency.


Those countries were warned that crippling Unrwa, the largest relief organization in Gaza, would risk “hastening famine”. They were warned that the Israel’s much-vaunted intelligence dossier on Unrwa contained only “flimsy unproven allegations”.

But they trusted Israel.

Over the past three months, as Palestinian children have literally starved to death, many of those countries belatedly resumed funding to Unrwa – including the German government, which is the second-biggest source of funds for the agency.

Why? Last week, an independent review of Unrwa’s work, led by the former French foreign minister Catherine Colonna, concluded that the agency “remains pivotal in providing life-saving humanitarian aid and essential social services” and “as such, UNRWA is irreplaceable and indispensable to Palestinians’ human and economic development”.

Crucially, referring to the Israeli government’s explosive claim that Unrwa employees were involved in Hamas attacks, Colonna’s report said that “Israel has yet to provide supporting evidence” for these claims. It also pointed out how Unrwa actually “shares staff lists” every year with both Israel and the United States and revealed that “the Israeli Government has not informed UNRWA of any concerns relating to any UNRWA staff based on these staff lists since 2011”.

Since 2011. So it was all a lie. From Israel. Again.

Now, to be clear, as the Guardian’s Julian Borger reports, “there is a separate review under way into specific claims Unrwa employees took part in the 7 October attack” but “the last time there was a progress report … Israel was still withholding cooperation” with that review, too. (Even in the unlikely case that this other review does conclude that a dozen employees took part, that’s 12 out of 13,000 UNRWA staff in Gaza – or around 0.1% of the total workforce!)

The United States, nevertheless, has refused to resume its support for Unrwa; in fact, Congress passed a law banning the funding of the agency till at least March 2025.

more here

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Another thread highlighting how the liberals on here just don’t like Jews. It is what it is. The days of the democrat party supporting Israel are over.
You guys really don't listen. The head of the Democratic Party supports Israel and has said so multiple times. Just because we don't like kids being killed doesn't make liberals haters of Jewish people...that's silly.

Having said that, it does feel a bit strange being on the same side of an argument with the board righties.
 
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You guys really don't listen. The head of the Democratic Party supports Israel and has said so multiple times. Just because we don't like kids being killed doesn't make liberals haters of Jewish people...that's silly.

Having said that, it does feel a bit strange being on the same side of an argument with the board righties.

There are definitely some on this board that do nothing but try to find fault with Israel. They're post show they truly do not like Jews. It's pretty obvious.
 
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Yep. The terrorist groups who do absolutely SICK things to other humans are the worst.

You're right and hamas is one of those terrorist groups. The interesting thing is that some posters/people hate Israel so much that they really don't want to see hamas removed. They have the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" philosophy in their head.
 
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Really?

How many seconds does it take you decide if you’d rather live under a government run by Hamas, or Israel?

Some posters will have to get back to you, they're going to need some time. It's going to be a tough decision for them.
 
There are definitely some on this board that do nothing but try to find fault with Israel. They're post show they truly do not like Jews. It's pretty obvious.
Are you talking about the people who vote with the "Jews will not replace us!" guys, or people who don't want to see Palestinians massacred? I don't think there's a poster on either side of the aisle here who hates Jewish people.
 
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Are you talking about the people who vote with the "Jews will not replace us!" guys, or people who don't want to see Palestinians massacred? I don't think there's a poster on either side of the aisle here who hates Jewish people.

You're joking right, there are a number of posters who obviously hate Jews, I'm not saying you, but there are definitely a few that stand out.
 
There are definitely some on this board that do nothing but try to find fault with Israel. They're post show they truly do not like Jews. It's pretty obvious.

I think it is more hatred for bibi and his politics than it is for Jews in general. Unfortunately, when people adhere so tightly to their politics good judgement is out the window.
 
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I disagree. You really think some people here hate Jews? Why is that?

I think you’re conflating dislike/hate of the Israeli government with dislike/hate of Jews generally.

There's definitely some of that but there's also people who hate Jews.
 
The ‘hate group’ is the government of Gaza, whether you like it not.

Having seen what the government will do on Oct 7th, do you prefer to see that government left in power in Gaza?

So, Gaza attacked and not Hamas. Gaza. With a massive military and population. Oh, I keep forgetting, you don't worry about credibility.
 
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So, Gaza attacked and not Hamas. Gaza. With a massive military and population. Oh, I keep forgetting, you don't worry about credibility.
Let’s test your credibility.
Who controls the government of Gaza?
 
What do these posters say that makes you think that?

All of their criticism is directed only at Israel or supporters of Israel. There's a poster that I hadn't even said anything personal to and this poster called me a dumbass and moron for supporting Israel. In order to respond that way, the poster has to feel pretty strong the other way. There was a lot of hate in those posts.
 
All of their criticism is directed only at Israel or supporters of Israel. There's a poster that I hadn't even said anything personal to and this poster called me a dumbass and moron for supporting Israel. In order to respond that way, the poster has to feel pretty strong the other way. There was a lot of hate in those posts.
Again, criticism of Israel. Not Jews.
 
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His argument is emotional and absurd. I'll let my jewish buddy who rails against Israel every week know that SB thinks he hates jews. I'm sure he'll be glad to know.

See it didn't take long for the "I can't be racist, I have a Jewish friend".
 
See it didn't take long for the "I can't be racist, I have a Jewish friend".
See, it didn't take long for SB to call my jewish friend racist.
All these people are clearly racists too.
 
See, it didn't take long for SB to call my jewish friend racist.
All these people are clearly racists too.

I'm not surprised by that at all. With every group/country you're going to find odd people that defend the other side. We've had people from the US that have been against the US for various reasons. There's a large group of citizens that would rather be Russian than American.

As I told the other poster, I'll keep defending Israel and you can defend hamas. May the best team win.
 
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So, Gaza attacked and not Hamas. Gaza. With a massive military and population. Oh, I keep forgetting, you don't worry about credibility.
Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. So you tell us.
 
I'm not surprised by that at all. With every group/country you're going to find people that are opposed to indiscriminate killing.
FIFY

I'm curious, do you feel as weak by claiming people who are opposed to widespread slaughter support Hamas as you sound?
 
FIFY

I'm curious, do you feel as weak by claiming people who are opposed to widespread slaughter support Hamas as you sound?

Nope, don't feel weak at all. As I said, may the best team win. But you seem upset that your hamas team might lose.
 
Nope, don't feel weak at all. As I said, may the best team win. But you seem upset that your hamas team might lose.
I just have to assume at this point that you're stupid.
No one here at any point has said they'd be upset if Hamas loses. That you keep making that claim illustrates how weak your position is.
People are upset that the main casualties are women and children.
That you and others are ok with that shows that there is no 'best team', just variations of bad.
 
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I just have to assume at this point that you're stupid.
No one here at any point has said they'd be upset if Hamas loses. That you keep making that claim illustrates how weak your position is.
People are upset that the main casualties are women and children.
That you and others are ok with that shows that there is no 'best team', just variations of bad.

Keep telling yourself that, I'm sure it helps to justify your position. May the best team win.
 
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