17-22 in 2pt FGA = Dickinson + Diabate. When will Fran recognize the need for interior defense (and rebounding) ?

[KcTo]

a. Game was lost right here. Poor poor defense vs MI Bigs. (If Iowa holds them to even 60% we win.)
b. Lost rebounding again, ( in spite of plus offensive rebounds)

plus player deployment gaffes
c. Ogundele held his own in 4 minute play, stopping Dickinson on a drive, grabbing a high contested rebound, but saw zero 2H minutes.
d. Kris limited to 13 minutes (even tough he is by far 2nd best player on team)

thinking Fran will change anything this season is definition of insanity…

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

I liked how Josh O took that charge by running into the offensive player lol. Kris kind of limited his own minutes last night by fouling out.

But, yes, we need a REAL interior defender. Preferably a couple guys who can bang for extended minutes. Rebraca is really trying but he’s outclassed and outsized by some of the monsters in the B1G.

The pieces Fran has at his disposal this year don’t seem to fit together very well. Guards are the key to winning in the tourney yet each one of our guards are one dimensional. It would be great to get to the end of a game without having the need to sub out O for D and vice versa. Maybe Bowen is that guy?

 

[Mohawkeye]

a. Game was lost right here. Poor poor defense vs MI Bigs. (If Iowa holds them to even 60% we win.)
b. Lost rebounding again, ( in spite of plus offensive rebounds)

plus player deployment gaffes
c. Ogundele held his own in 4 minute play, stopping Dickinson on a drive, grabbing a high contested rebound, but saw zero 2H minutes.
d. Kris limited to 13 minutes (even tough he is by far 2nd best player on team)

thinking Fran will change anything this season is definition of insanity…

How do you get 5 fouls in 14 minutes? Crazy, it's not like he's a klutz or anything. Seems like refs have been hard on Kris all season and last night especially.

Fran's player minute allotments have left me pulling out my nonexistent hair this year, especially Ogundule and Kris. Why Ogundule didn't get more minutes earlier in the season to get him ready for the Big is perplexing. It seems in every game he has played meaningful minutes he has done reasonably well defending the opposing bigs and rebounding. You can't replicate size.

 

[FWIW4922463]

I imagine Fran will figure out you need to defend and rebound--and play with intensity for 40 minutes, not 2--to be really good at basketball about the same time Kirk Ferentz figures out you need an offense that's better than 123rd in the country to be really good at football. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[KcTo]

How do you get 5 fouls in 14 minutes? Crazy, it's not like he's a klutz or anything. Seems like refs have been hard on Kris all season and last night especially.

Fran's player minute allotments have left me pulling out my nonexistent hair this year, especially Ogundule and Kris. Why Ogundule didn't get more minutes earlier in the season to get him ready for the Big is perplexing. It seems in every game he has played meaningful minutes he has done reasonably well defending the opposing bigs and rebounding. You can't replicate size.

You get 5 fouls when your are 6 8” and every minute you play you are matched 1 v 1 vs a 7 1” or 6 11” player

we’ve talked about how playing your 2nd best player out of position to defend much bigger players in the post will expose Kris to fouls and limit his minutes. Which is exactly what happened again last night.

Rebraca played 24m and Ogundele 4m. resulting in Kris playing D in the pivot for all of his 13m.

for the love of god let Ogundele bang in side when rebraca is out and let Keegan and Kris create in space with out exposing them to fouls.

this would mean less playing time for the remainder of the roster, ( so prob not going to see this)

 

[Rifler]

We all know that we just don't have that big interior presence this year,... Jack Nunge would have made a big difference this season.

 

[KcTo]

We all know that we just don't have that big interior presence this year,... Jack Nunge would have made a big difference this season.

Disagree, We do have 2 pieces, Ogundele and Mulvey, Fran chooses to play others.
= coaching blunder

 

[Rifler]

Disagree, We do have 2 pieces, Ogundele and Mulvey, Fran chooses to play others.
= coaching blunder

Both are too inexperienced to be a net positive right now, even though Josh gave a few good minutes during the first half last night...

 

[KcTo]

Both are too inexperienced to be a net positive right now, even though Josh gave a few good minutes during the first half last night...

Could they do worse than allow 17-22 shooting
and
limit our 2nd best player to 13m?

could they do worse?

 

[Rifler]

Could they do worse than allow 17-22 shooting
and
limit our 2nd best player to 13m?

could they do worse?

Yes.

 

[Slim45]

Both are too inexperienced to be a net positive right now, even though Josh gave a few good minutes during the first half last night...

Idk ogundele has looked pretty solid every time he’s put in. I don’t think it would hurt to give him 3-5 min/half to eat some minutes, mainly against the teams with a big 5. He’s a good rebounder and seems to be a solid defender against those guys. And he actually seems to have good feet and be pretty agile for being so freaking huge!

 

[Rifler]

Idk ogundele has looked pretty solid every time he’s put in. I don’t think it would hurt to give him 3-5 min/half to eat some minutes, mainly against the teams with a big 5. He’s a good rebounder and seems to be a solid defender against those guys. And he actually seems to have good feet and be pretty agile for being so freaking huge!

I don't disagree with Josh, in particular, getting a few more minutes,.. but he's not going to be a game changer.

 

[ObeseMuffins]

That Diabate kid looked like a young Chris Bosh. Very impressive.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Could they do worse than allow 17-22 shooting
and
limit our 2nd best player to 13m?

could they do worse?

Correct.
josh has not played bad against both Purdue and michigan. I think he was even ok vs kofi, so I’m not sure he doesn’t warrant 5-10 minutes against teams with bigs that stay in the post.

 

[kzoohawk80]

Ogundele doesn't play because he's not an offensive threat. Everything he does defensively is meaningless because Fran values offense over defense. Same with Joe T and Perkins.

 

[RocknRollface]

You get 5 fouls when your are 6 8” and every minute you play you are matched 1 v 1 vs a 7 1” or 6 11” player

we’ve talked about how playing your 2nd best player out of position to defend much bigger players in the post will expose Kris to fouls and limit his minutes. Which is exactly what happened again last night.

Rebraca played 24m and Ogundele 4m. resulting in Kris playing D in the pivot for all of his 13m.

for the love of god let Ogundele bang in side when rebraca is out and let Keegan and Kris create in space with out exposing them to fouls.

this would mean less playing time for the remainder of the roster, ( so prob not going to see this)

Half of Kris fouls were from being overly aggressive in non post defense situations. Hes been pretty consistently good at defending the post all year.

Kris has got to stop wasting his fouls on reaching.

the main problem with playing small is Fran doesn't want to adjust his offense to do it properly.

Small ball is about putting the big on an island at the top of the key and making them the point of attack every time or at least keeping them out of the lane stuck on a shooter. If you don't do that it doesn't work as a strategy.

Against teams with giant centers if we're not going to iso them then I agree play Ogundele or Mulvey.

Playing Rebraca against those opponents doesn't bring anything to the table. He has nothing on either end that works against them.

 

[RocknRollface]

Both are too inexperienced to be a net positive right now, even though Josh gave a few good minutes during the first half last night...

The soft double team was a big net negative last night.

Josh isn't going to be nearly the negative that strategy was.

 

[RocknRollface]

Yes.

No.

 

[RocknRollface]

Idk ogundele has looked pretty solid every time he’s put in. I don’t think it would hurt to give him 3-5 min/half to eat some minutes, mainly against the teams with a big 5. He’s a good rebounder and seems to be a solid defender against those guys. And he actually seems to have good feet and be pretty agile for being so freaking huge!

Yeah, he's a good on ball post defender.

He gets lost in screens but that wasn't what UM was doing.

They were just posting Dickinson.

 

[Rifler]

The soft double team was a big net negative last night.

Josh isn't going to be nearly the negative that strategy was.

They hit a lot of their threes,.. and long term Josh would have needed the assist of a double on Dickinson as well.

 

[Polkhawk]

Both are too inexperienced to be a net positive right now, even though Josh gave a few good minutes during the first half last night...

Ogundele has seemed to be a positive in every game he’s played in. He’s a viable option in certain situations

 

[Mohawkeye]

Ogundele doesn't play because he's not an offensive threat. Everything he does defensively is meaningless because Fran values offense over defense. Same with Joe T and Perkins.

Let me introduce you to Connor McCaffrey.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I don't disagree with Josh, in particular, getting a few more minutes,.. but he's not going to be a game changer.

Game changer for fran. It would mean minutes for Kris somewhere else. Can’t have that.

 

[RocknRollface]

They hit a lot of their threes,.. and long term Josh would have needed the assist of a double on Dickinson as well.

Well yeah, they got those open 3s off those weak double teams Iowa was doing.

Define need a double team?

Yeah, of course Dickinson would score some baskets. But him taking contested 2s would have been far better than letting everyone else on their team get open looks.

Hold him to 20 points and limit everyone else to contested shots and the chances of winning increase.

No doubles needed.

 

[perryhawk]

a. Game was lost right here. Poor poor defense vs MI Bigs. (If Iowa holds them to even 60% we win.)
b. Lost rebounding again, ( in spite of plus offensive rebounds)

plus player deployment gaffes
c. Ogundele held his own in 4 minute play, stopping Dickinson on a drive, grabbing a high contested rebound, but saw zero 2H minutes.
d. Kris limited to 13 minutes (even tough he is by far 2nd best player on team)

thinking Fran will change anything this season is definition of insanity…

Actually the game was lost at the FT line, or missing dunks and layups on our end........Rebounding, not so much. It was only a 3 rebound difference.

When Kris fouls out, it's hard to get him more minutes. Keegan appears to have figured that out. Hopefully Kris does really quickly because we need him badly the rest of the way.

Thinking Fran will change anything....you mean like the starting line up? Or his rotation? He's done both.

 

[HawkLogic]

I liked how Josh O took that charge by running into the offensive player lol. Kris kind of limited his own minutes last night by fouling out.

But, yes, we need a REAL interior defender. Preferably a couple guys who can bang for extended minutes. Rebraca is really trying but he’s outclassed and outsized by some of the monsters in the B1G.

The pieces Fran has at his disposal this year don’t seem to fit together very well. Guards are the key to winning in the tourney yet each one of our guards are one dimensional. It would be great to get to the end of a game without having the need to sub out O for D and vice versa. Maybe Bowen is that guy?

JoshO flopped....and drew the charge. Smart play at home....might not work so well at Michigan.

Against teams with true bigs, Fran has to matchup size and play some mulvey/JoshO. JoshO is more stout, Mulvey has a little bit of shot blocking--maybe could have helped vs Diatabe.

It isn't like Rebracca is a scoring machine and you are losing post buckets when you play JoshO or Mulvey.
The small ball in teams with true centers shoud be Kris at center, because he has perimeter game and can draw out out opposing true centers to 3pt line. Rebracca can go out to 3pt line and no one cares.

Last year, Keegan had zero reputation and he got a terrible whistle from the B1G refs who like to pick on Freshmen/unknowns. This year Kris is the one with zero rep...the fact that Fran refuses to start Kris reinforces the refs veiw that Kris is 2nd string material and they can give ticky tac whistles to him. Since Kris didn't play last year and go through a learning curve, he also is trying to make too much happen at times before Fran sends him back to the bench.

Fran did play Sandfort vs Michigan and Sandfort hunted shots too hard and took extra deep 3pt shots. Still, I think playing him is the smart move for team upside.

JBO back to not being able to get shots off when teams actually put a guy on him. He has the ball in his hands more often at PG in case teams make a mistake and leave him open---not going to happen very often in B1G play.

 

[KcTo]

Actually the game was lost at the FT line, or missing dunks and layups on our end........Rebounding, not so much. It was only a 3 rebound difference.

When Kris fouls out, it's hard to get him more minutes. Keegan appears to have figured that out. Hopefully Kris does really quickly because we need him badly the rest of the way.

Thinking Fran will change anything....you mean like the starting line up? Or his rotation? He's done both.

A. MI missed 6 FT, IOWA missed 7, IOWA needs to makes 80% (18-20) to tie. if your saying, yes, IOWA needs to make 85% of FT to win, but that’s hardly reasonable, if Iowa makes 75%, we still lose. Or 78z like MI, we still lose. So I would reject that thought out of hand.
B. Missed dunks and layups. i didn’t see any wide open dunks or layups. I saw PMac trying to dunk over 7 1 Dickinson defending the rim, that is valiant , but hardly a given. I saw Keegan miss 2 dunks, but he ended up on the floor each time as he was agin trying to dunk over a rim protector. That’s not easy and not a given, and anything less than a dunk attempt gets swatted away. So ‘missing dunks and layups‘ in the grill of 7 1” and landing 6 11” guys is not a given And think I will dismiss that claim as a given,
C. To reiterate, Kris is picking up some fouls defending the post against guys who out weight him, out size him, and is going to pick up fouls. In my view, you don’t put your 2nd best player (by a substantial margin) and expose him to fouls, and then lose his extended production, 13m 8 points. What if is was 26 minutes and 16 points? Or 22 minutes and 14 points? That is also the margin of victory ‘Kris Murray’s missed production owing to being played out of position‘
D. 17-22. How we can not say That giving up 80% from the paint on 22 shots is not the main statistical outlier here and going to contribute directly to the 5 point loss is overlooking the obvious.
E. making 1 change in the starting lineup is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about maximizing your best players time in the court, and vastly improving your defense in the paint. Playing small,lineups, and/or playing small lineups errantly, and then getting abused in the paint, is what we are saying must change.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

A. MI missed 6 FT, IOWA missed 7, IOWA needs to makes 80% (18-20) to tie. if your saying, yes, IOWA needs to make 85% of FT to win, but that’s hardly reasonable, if Iowa makes 75%, we still lose. Or 78z like MI, we still lose. So I would reject that thought out of hand.
B. Missed dunks and layups. i didn’t see any wide open dunks or layups. I saw PMac trying to dunk over 7 1 Dickinson defending the rim, that is valiant , but hardly a given. I saw Keegan miss 2 dunks, but he ended up on the floor each time as he was agin trying to dunk over a rim protector. That’s not easy and not a given, and anything less than a dunk attempt gets swatted away. So ‘missing dunks and layups‘ in the grill of 7 1” and landing 6 11” guys is not a given And think I will dismiss that claim as a given,
C. To reiterate, Kris is picking up some fouls defending the post against guys who out weight him, out size him, and is going to pick up fouls. In my view, you don’t put your 2nd best player (by a substantial margin) and expose him to fouls, and then lose his extended production, 13m 8 points. What if is was 26 minutes and 16 points? Or 22 minutes and 14 points? That is also the margin of victory ‘Kris Murray’s missed production owing to being played out of position‘
D. 17-22. How we can not say That giving up 80% from the paint on 22 shots is not the main statistical outlier here and going to contribute directly to the 5 point loss is overlooking the obvious.
E. making 1 change in the starting lineup is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about maximizing your best players time in the court, and vastly improving your defense in the paint. Playing small,lineups, and/or playing small lineups errantly, and then getting abused in the paint, is what we are saying must change.

Would like to give a couple likes.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

Lol

 

[perryhawk]

A. MI missed 6 FT, IOWA missed 7, IOWA needs to makes 80% (18-20) to tie. if your saying, yes, IOWA needs to make 85% of FT to win, but that’s hardly reasonable, if Iowa makes 75%, we still lose. Or 78z like MI, we still lose. So I would reject that thought out of hand.
B. Missed dunks and layups. i didn’t see any wide open dunks or layups. I saw PMac trying to dunk over 7 1 Dickinson defending the rim, that is valiant , but hardly a given. I saw Keegan miss 2 dunks, but he ended up on the floor each time as he was agin trying to dunk over a rim protector. That’s not easy and not a given, and anything less than a dunk attempt gets swatted away. So ‘missing dunks and layups‘ in the grill of 7 1” and landing 6 11” guys is not a given And think I will dismiss that claim as a given,
C. To reiterate, Kris is picking up some fouls defending the post against guys who out weight him, out size him, and is going to pick up fouls. In my view, you don’t put your 2nd best player (by a substantial margin) and expose him to fouls, and then lose his extended production, 13m 8 points. What if is was 26 minutes and 16 points? Or 22 minutes and 14 points? That is also the margin of victory ‘Kris Murray’s missed production owing to being played out of position‘
D. 17-22. How we can not say That giving up 80% from the paint on 22 shots is not the main statistical outlier here and going to contribute directly to the 5 point loss is overlooking the obvious.
E. making 1 change in the starting lineup is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about maximizing your best players time in the court, and vastly improving your defense in the paint. Playing small,lineups, and/or playing small lineups errantly, and then getting abused in the paint, is what we are saying must change.

A) 6.1 seconds left in the game.....we were down TWO---2 POINTs...if we make 3 of the 7 missed free throws it changes things dramatically. Make ONE---1 of those missed dunks, along with those 3 free throws and we are up 3 points......
B) Those dunk attempts were all shots that could/should be made....just get one of them and it changes the game.
C) Not disagreeing on Kris.....other than he HAS to AVOID FOUL trouble...Keegan has learned.
D) Not saying giving up 80% in the post isn't a big problem...but we were overmatched there. When we went to Michigan a couple years ago...Luka scored 42? and we lost. Let me be clear, not saying that holding them to just 60% in there would be bad, and could have won us the game, but the factors I've mentioned (making UNCONTESTED FREE THROWS-just 3 of 7) or making 1 of 3 dunks..etc...etc


Last but not least YOU SAID "thinking Fran will change anything this season is the definition of insanity"....and I cited 2 changes he made recently. Then you went off the rails citing something different. Just try to dismiss the emotion and think objectively. It helps.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Keegan went 23/7 - but missed 5 FT's out of 9. Missed 14 out of 23 FG's. I would say that is uncharacteristic.

Iowa had 11 turnovers, which is not terrible, but half of them were of the "knucklehead" variety. Very uncharacteristic.

4 out of 18 from 3 is never going to get it done for this team.

Do just a little better in those three areas and the Hawks get a win,

 

[kzoohawk80]

Let me introduce you to Connor McCaffrey.

Not sure if you're serious right now.

 

[the24fan]

Interior D stinks
Our G play is laughable. Worst backcourt in the B1G AINEC.
Sums up the season

 

[perryhawk]

Interior D stinks
Our G play is laughable. Worst backcourt in the B1G AINEC.
Sums up the season

Hold it…. I get it, but we lost at Purdue by 7? We were close with Illinois, we lost a close one to Michigan and our guards are “laughable”? What does that make the future high draft pick guard from Purdue or some other potential pros?

These types of post are the over the top tantrums that ruin these message boards.

 

[KcTo]

A) 6.1 seconds left in the game.....we were down TWO---2 POINTs...if we make 3 of the 7 missed free throws it changes things dramatically. Make ONE---1 of those missed dunks, along with those 3 free throws and we are up 3 points......
B) Those dunk attempts were all shots that could/should be made....just get one of them and it changes the game.
C) Not disagreeing on Kris.....other than he HAS to AVOID FOUL trouble...Keegan has learned.
D) Not saying giving up 80% in the post isn't a big problem...but we were overmatched there. When we went to Michigan a couple years ago...Luka scored 42? and we lost. Let me be clear, not saying that holding them to just 60% in there would be bad, and could have won us the game, but the factors I've mentioned (making UNCONTESTED FREE THROWS-just 3 of 7) or making 1 of 3 dunks..etc...etc


Last but not least YOU SAID "thinking Fran will change anything this season is the definition of insanity"....and I cited 2 changes he made recently. Then you went off the rails citing something different. Just try to dismiss the emotion and think objectively. It helps.

I think we are really 95% in agreement here.
if we make FTs at 75% we are tied, although they have the ball,
if we make those dunks, agreed, but they were over / on a 7 ft rim protector with generous contact, hardly like jumping over a land lubber 6 5” guy. So, I still contend those are not 4 inch gimme putts.

Totally agree and really liking the “ go off the rails rant”.

lastly, Fran has made tiny lineup changes, in terms of playing time, CMac and Sandfort getting JoeT and Kris minutes

Kris now avg 18m in Conf play.
last 4 games 15m in Conf play

thise is just a coaching blunder

 

[KcTo]

Would like to give a couple likes.

One like is fine, I just like to hear from other like minded sensible posters
(and also those of the Oppo persuasion) ha

 

[icwesthawk]

Josh was open or had a much smaller guy on him a couple of times last nite, nobody would get him the ball. Maybe the team knows he's not an offensive threat, IDK. He was also gassed after those 4 minutes, I mean gassed.

 

[KcTo]

Josh was open or had a much smaller guy on him a couple of times last nite, nobody would get him the ball. Maybe the team knows he's not an offensive threat, IDK. He was also gassed after those 4 minutes, I mean gassed.

Agre, they froze him out, I don’t get that, even crispen was calling for the entry for the mismatch, (prob needed connor for the entry )

strategically, having Josh lower his shoulder and power to the rim results in a foul drawn, hes very good at that, and drawing fouls on their bigs is what crisper was also calling for. Iowa did neither (coaching blunder?)

being gassed after 4 minutes is no crime for a guy that plays 1x every e games for2 minutes.

totally ok for two 4 minute runs per half for Ogundele

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Agre, they froze him out, I don’t get that, even crispen was calling for the entry for the mismatch, (prob needed connor for the entry )

strategically, having Josh lower his shoulder and power to the rim results in a foul drawn, hes very good at that, and drawing fouls on their bigs is what crisper was also calling for. Iowa did neither (coaching blunder?)

being gassed after 4 minutes is no crime for a guy that plays 1x every e games for2 minutes.

totally ok for two 4 minute runs per half for Ogundele

I’d be fine with 4-3 minute stretches.
the larger discussion is lost on some here. We gave up 84 points to a team that shot 4-20 from three. That is an amazing stat.

 

[RocknRollface]

A. MI missed 6 FT, IOWA missed 7, IOWA needs to makes 80% (18-20) to tie. if your saying, yes, IOWA needs to make 85% of FT to win, but that’s hardly reasonable, if Iowa makes 75%, we still lose. Or 78z like MI, we still lose. So I would reject that thought out of hand.
B. Missed dunks and layups. i didn’t see any wide open dunks or layups. I saw PMac trying to dunk over 7 1 Dickinson defending the rim, that is valiant , but hardly a given. I saw Keegan miss 2 dunks, but he ended up on the floor each time as he was agin trying to dunk over a rim protector. That’s not easy and not a given, and anything less than a dunk attempt gets swatted away. So ‘missing dunks and layups‘ in the grill of 7 1” and landing 6 11” guys is not a given And think I will dismiss that claim as a given,
C. To reiterate, Kris is picking up some fouls defending the post against guys who out weight him, out size him, and is going to pick up fouls. In my view, you don’t put your 2nd best player (by a substantial margin) and expose him to fouls, and then lose his extended production, 13m 8 points. What if is was 26 minutes and 16 points? Or 22 minutes and 14 points? That is also the margin of victory ‘Kris Murray’s missed production owing to being played out of position‘
D. 17-22. How we can not say That giving up 80% from the paint on 22 shots is not the main statistical outlier here and going to contribute directly to the 5 point loss is overlooking the obvious.
E. making 1 change in the starting lineup is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about maximizing your best players time in the court, and vastly improving your defense in the paint. Playing small,lineups, and/or playing small lineups errantly, and then getting abused in the paint, is what we are saying must change.

Pats dunk was very difficult. He tried to dunk over Dickinson, have a point on that one.

Keegan should have flushed both of his easily.