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174 Rankings

Well he's beaten 4 guys ranked above him so there's potential. I'm still not buying Bo Nickal to 184 until I see it. It's much better for Iowa with him at 84 though
 
Alex has beaten 3-8 but has also lost to several of them as well. Kinda like Brooks in that regard (splitting matches with several AA opponents). I wouldn't limit his ceiling to 4the but hard to predict where he might finish as well.
 
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moug said:
Alex has beaten 3-8 but has also lost to several of them as well. Kinda like Brooks in that regard (splitting matches with several AA opponents). I wouldn't limit his ceiling to 4the but hard to predict where he might finish as well.
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Yep. There's nobody on that list he can't beat. Unfortunately, there's nobody on that list who can't beat him. He could literally finish anywhere from 1 to DNP. Needless to say, we need a "Kenny Courts" performance out of Alex at Nationals. If he gets on a roll, he could be wrestling Saturday night and we're in business for a team title. If he's not sharp, he could very possibly fail to place, and our team title chances would go with him. I think 3-5 is realistic for Alex and would keep us in the hunt.

Makes for a fun tournament!
 
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Granted it's preseason and rankings don't mean anything but didn't Ramos go 0-2 BBQ at nationals with Meyer knocking him out? And didn't Meyer major spoon last year? Wouldn't that be enough to rank him ahead of those two?
 
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Very minor quibble: Both Ramos and Weatherspoon over Alex. Lelund finished higher at the NCAAs last year so I get that theory. But Ramos didn't place and Alex beat him at the NCAAs.

On the other hand, this ranking is more interesting than just regurgitating the placing order from the NCAAs last year.
 
UndercoverHawk said:
Granted it's preseason and rankings don't mean anything but didn't Ramos go 0-2 BBQ at nationals with Meyer knocking him out? And didn't Meyer major spoon last year? Wouldn't that be enough to rank him ahead of those two?
Click to expand...

Rankings can be very hard for both reasons you just cited. Ramos had such a super strong year, it is hard to penalize him too much for one bad performance in the hardest tournament of the year. On the other hand, Weatherspoon improved and peaked at the exact right time. You could move that combination around without any problems and be able to justify it equally. Honestly, I would probably 5t(tied)Ramos,Weatherspoon, Meyer and Brunson. Going into the season, all 4 are about as equal as it gets.
 
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Couldn't have been easy ranking Meyer with his up and down year last year.
I'm sure it will continue to be a pain in the rear from week to week once the season starts as Alex will pull out a gutty win over a top 5 guy one week than lose to an unranked kid the next.
Honestly have no clue where Alex finishes. Like a lot of you said, he could DNP or high AA.
For me, i gotta take a hope for the best and expect the worst when it comes to Alex Meyer. It's the only way I can stay sane.
 
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Omahahawk86 said:
Well he's beaten 4 guys ranked above him so there's potential. I'm still not buying Bo Nickal to 184 until I see it. It's much better for Iowa with him at 84 though
Click to expand...
I don't buy Nickal to 84 either. Team is stronger with him at 74, and my sense is that he can safely do another year at 74. Next year is definitely 184.
 
WWDMHawkeye said:
Yep. There's nobody on that list he can't beat. Unfortunately, there's nobody on that list who can't beat him. He could literally finish anywhere from 1 to DNP. Needless to say, we need a "Kenny Courts" performance out of Alex at Nationals. If he gets on a roll, he could be wrestling Saturday night and we're in business for a team title. If he's not sharp, he could very possibly fail to place, and our team title chances would go with him. I think 3-5 is realistic for Alex and would keep us in the hunt.
Click to expand...

Meyer and Brooks have definitely frustrated fans and coaches (and themselves). Both have shown they're capable of standing higher on the podium, but both have been inconsistent. For this reason I was surprised Meyer was an AA last year, and Brooks went from a possible finalist to 8th place. When someone wrestles for Iowa and shows they have the potential, it is all the more frustrating when they can't peak at nationals.

#HawkeyeExpectationsTooHigh
 
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CP mentioned on FloRadio Live today that he might be a little low on Meyer. He has some very good wins but several head scratching losses too.
 
Pennstate1985 said:
I don't buy Nickal to 84 either. Team is stronger with him at 74, and my sense is that he can safely do another year at 74. Next year is definitely 184.
Click to expand...

Nickal could very well bonus his way through 174. He might not even medal at 184 this year. Rasheed goes whatever opposite weight and he is a fringe AA at best RIGHT NOW.

At last chance qualifier everyone was chiming in how much he weighed in under weight. I want to say like 185. I doubt it's some crazy pull for him to get down to 174.

I'll say he goes 74 this year and then moves up to 84 next year making room for Mark Hall.
 
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AFHawk86 said:
Meyer and Brooks have definitely frustrated fans and coaches (and themselves). Both have shown they're capable of standing higher on the podium, but both have been inconsistent. For this reason I was surprised Meyer was an AA last year, and Brooks went from a possible finalist to 8th place. When someone wrestles for Iowa and shows they have the potential, it is all the more frustrating when they can't peak at nationals.

#HawkeyeExpectationsTooHigh
Click to expand...
Saw this in Moore, Jeva, and Lofthouse also.
 
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Are we certain that the move to 184 for Nickal isn't paving the way for a Hall insertion at 174 if necessary?

Hate to say it, but this lineup would be very hard to beat:

125:Suriano
133:Cortez
141:Gulibon
149:Retherford
157:Nolf
165:Joseph
174:Hall
184:Nickal
197:Cassar/McCutcheon/Rasheed?
285:Nevills
 
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so cal hawkfan said:
I thought I heard that Cael confirmed that Hall was shirting this year.
Click to expand...

I admit, for my own selfish reasons, I hope that is true. However, things change. From the outside looking in, this move sure has a strategic feel that leaves the opportunity open, if the need arises.
 
If bo goes 84 I dont think they can win it without Hall. Cael has redshirted people before,
but the situation was way different.
Hall will wrestle this year if Bo goes 84. Perfect weight for hall and to many points to leave on the table
MSU158 said:
Are we certain that the move to 184 for Nickal isn't paving the way for a Hall insertion at 174 if necessary?

Hate to say it, but this lineup would be very hard to beat:

125:Suriano
133:Cortez
141:Gulibon
149:Retherford
157:Nolf
165:Joseph
174:Hall
184:Nickal
197:Cassar/McCutcheon/Rasheed?
285:Nevills
Click to expand...
 
MSU158 said:
Are we certain that the move to 184 for Nickal isn't paving the way for a Hall insertion at 174 if necessary?

Hate to say it, but this lineup would be very hard to beat:

125:Suriano
133:Cortez
141:Gulibon
149:Retherford
157:Nolf
165:Joseph
174:Hall
184:Nickal
197:Cassar/McCutcheon/Rasheed?
285:Nevills
Click to expand...
Neither Rasheed or Cutch are viable at 97. Rasheed because a 32 pound weight increase from one season to the next just isn't conducive to a successful season (AA). Cutch because he doesn't have the height imo to compete well at 97. We will either use Cassar or Stout if Cassar is unable. Our weakest weight to be sure at this point, but one never knows how the season shakes out

.
 
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I don't know the future for Hall, but recall that Hall was going to gray shirt this year, and now he is enrolled and redshirting. So changes have already occurred. Could Cael pull his shirt in January? Sure can. However, I prefer Bo at 74 for the reasons stated, but trust that Cael knows more than I do by a very large margin.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
Neither Rasheed or Cutch are viable at 97. Rasheed because a 32 pound weight increase from one season to the next just isn't conducive to a successful season (AA). Cutch because he doesn't have the height imo to compete well at 97. We will either use Cassar or Stout if Cassar is unable. Our weakest weight to be sure at this point, but one never knows how the season shakes out
Click to expand...

I have seen enough undersized guys wrestle. If they want to wrestle and are the best guy at the weight, I would be very surprised if they sat on the pine when they could be contributing.
 
MSU158 said:
Are we certain that the move to 184 for Nickal isn't paving the way for a Hall insertion at 174 if necessary?

Hate to say it, but this lineup would be very hard to beat:

125:Suriano
133:Cortez
141:Gulibon
149:Retherford
157:Nolf
165:Joseph
174:Hall
184:Nickal
197:Cassar/McCutcheon/Rasheed?
285:Nevills
Click to expand...

Disagree

125: Suriano: 50/50 chance to AA
133: Cortez: 30/70 chance to AA
141: Gulibon: 10/90 chance to AA
149: Retherford: Champ
157: Nolf: 1st or 2nd
165: Joseph: 50/50 chance to AA
174: Rasheed: 10/90 chance to AA/ Hall 90/10 chance to AA
184: Nickal: 70/30 chance to AA
197: Cassar/McCutcheon: 50/50 chance to AA just because of how week 197 is.
hwt: Nevils: 80/20 chance to AA

Iowa:
125: GMan: Champ
133: Clark: Champ
141: Turk: 10/90 chance to AA
149: 2nd
157: KemDawg: 90/10 chance to AA could be as high as 3rd.
165: The Bull: 80/20 chance to AA
174: Meyer: 70/30 chance to AA could be as high as 3rd
184: Brooks: 60/40 chance to AA could be as high as 4th
197: Holloway: Pass
hwt: Stoll: 90/10 chance to AA could be as high as 3rd

I still like the Hawks vs. psu but I am REALLY worried about Oky. State!!
 
Pennstate1985 said:
I don't know the future for Hall, but recall that Hall was going to gray shirt this year, and now he is enrolled and redshirting. So changes have already occurred. Could Cael pull his shirt in January? Sure can. However, I prefer Bo at 74 for the reasons stated, but trust that Cael knows more than I do by a very large margin.
Click to expand...

I thought Hall and Mansville weren't enrolling until next year? Not true for Hall??
 
WWDMHawkeye said:
Yep. There's nobody on that list he can't beat. Unfortunately, there's nobody on that list who can't beat him. He could literally finish anywhere from 1 to DNP. Needless to say, we need a "Kenny Courts" performance out of Alex at Nationals. If he gets on a roll, he could be wrestling Saturday night and we're in business for a team title. If he's not sharp, he could very possibly fail to place, and our team title chances would go with him. I think 3-5 is realistic for Alex and would keep us in the hunt.

Makes for a fun tournament!
Click to expand...

I really don't see Meyer beating Jordan. Could be wrong but I just don't see it. I really like Epperly also. My ceiling for Meyer is 3rd but he would have to beat Crutchmer and I would give him a 50/50 chance doing that.
 
reddogg26,

The problem is PSU has a very high probability of 90+ points just between Retherford, Nolf, Hall and Nickal. Just one more AA finish between Suriano, Cortez, Gulibon, Joseph or Nevills puts them solidly into the 100's. Hall is damn near guaranteed significant points that leaves Iowa VERY LITTLE margin for error. Remember that Nolf Scored 22 taking 2nd while Clark scored 17 taking 2nd. The bonus points that are likely between Retherford, Nolf and Hall would be huge and although 184 is deep, Nickal is very likely to bonus in his 1st and maybe second match and should be a mid-level AA.
 
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NO WAY should Ramos be in front of Meyer. They wrestled one time and Meyer beat him, knocking him out of NCAA's last year. Other than that I pretty much agree with how he has 174. Hard to argue Meyer getting any higher as right now.
 
reddogg26 said:
Disagree

125: Suriano: 50/50 chance to AA
133: Cortez: 30/70 chance to AA
141: Gulibon: 10/90 chance to AA
149: Retherford: Champ
157: Nolf: 1st or 2nd
165: Joseph: 50/50 chance to AA
174: Rasheed: 10/90 chance to AA/ Hall 90/10 chance to AA
184: Nickal: 70/30 chance to AA
197: Cassar/McCutcheon: 50/50 chance to AA just because of how week 197 is.
hwt: Nevils: 80/20 chance to AA

Iowa:
125: GMan: Champ
133: Clark: Champ
141: Turk: 10/90 chance to AA
149: 2nd
157: KemDawg: 90/10 chance to AA could be as high as 3rd.
165: The Bull: 80/20 chance to AA
174: Meyer: 70/30 chance to AA could be as high as 3rd
184: Brooks: 60/40 chance to AA could be as high as 4th
197: Holloway: Pass
hwt: Stoll: 90/10 chance to AA could be as high as 3rd

I still like the Hawks vs. psu but I am REALLY worried about Oky. State!!
Click to expand...

Nickal will unequivocally AA at 184, come on man... I also think Gulibon has a higher than 10% chance of AA. He's been there before.... Agree with your Iowa assessments if that is in fact the starting X.
 
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reddogg26 said:
I really don't see Meyer beating Jordan. Could be wrong but I just don't see it. I really like Epperly also. My ceiling for Meyer is 3rd but he would have to beat Crutchmer and I would give him a 50/50 chance doing that.
Click to expand...
No doubt, Alex would be the underdog against Jordan, but Bo's far from unbeatable. Alex has pulled upsets against guys I thought he had no business beating in the past. I don't think Bo is head and shoulders above the rest of the pack there. Epperly is tough but also far from beatable for Alex, IMO. If "good Alex" shows up, I think he's fully capable of winning the thing. I don't think it happens, though, and I'd be very pleased for him if he placed 3rd. That said, I'd still say his "ceiling" is 1st. Unlikely but conceivable.
 
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Pennstate1985 said:
Neither Rasheed or Cutch are viable at 97. Rasheed because a 32 pound weight increase from one season to the next just isn't conducive to a successful season (AA). Cutch because he doesn't have the height imo to compete well at 97. We will either use Cassar or Stout if Cassar is unable. Our weakest weight to be sure at this point, but one never knows how the season shakes out

.
Click to expand...

Team title could come down to who scores the most at 197.
 
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PapaBearSLIM said:
Team title could come down to who scores the most at 197.
Click to expand...
97 is a relative weak field in general. Looks like 84 is just a tough of a weight class as 65.
I wonder if Brands has seriously considered letting Wilcke wrestle his natural weight at 84 this year and move Brooks up.
Way I look at it, with that move, you get some points at 84 and 97, or if you keep Brooks at 84, you get some points at 84 and maybe some points at 97.
From room reports, Wilcke has been taking it to Holloway, so there's that.
 
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Alex's style is going to make him vulnerable to losing a match he shouldn't at ncaas. Guys that loose and undisciplined just don't win 5-6 straight at nationals. I'm seeing a 5th-6th place finish which we'll take.
 
[QUOTE="Sandor45, post: 3672855, member: 14664
I wonder if Brands has seriously considered letting Wilcke wrestle his natural weight at 84 this year and move Brooks up.
Way I look at it, with that move, you get some points at 84 and 97, or if you keep Brooks at 84, you get some points at 84 and maybe some points at 97.
From room reports, Wilcke has been taking it to Holloway, so there's that.[/QUOTE]

I will spare you the trouble: he hasn't. Not even sure why points at both weights in that scenario are highly likely.
 
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Mattski said:
Alex's style is going to make him vulnerable to losing a match he shouldn't at ncaas. Guys that loose and undisciplined just don't win 5-6 straight at nationals. I'm seeing a 5th-6th place finish which we'll take.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't necessarily describe Alex as "loose and undisciplined". I'd describe him more as a grinder with limited athleticism but a strong gas tank. I actually think that style enables him to knock off favored opponents, as he's done a number of times in his career. However, his margin for error isn't big. I think it's his slim margin for error due to a lack of exceptional athletic ability, more than a "loose and undisciplined style", that makes a run at Nationals difficult for a guy like Alex. That said, we've seen it before from similar guys -- Daryl Weber comes to mind as a similar wrestler who won a national title his senior year -- so I'll plan on something around 5th and hope for a magical title run.
 
Sandor45 said:
97 is a relative weak field in general. Looks like 84 is just a tough of a weight class as 65.
I wonder if Brands has seriously considered letting Wilcke wrestle his natural weight at 84 this year and move Brooks up.
Way I look at it, with that move, you get some points at 84 and 97, or if you keep Brooks at 84, you get some points at 84 and maybe some points at 97.
From room reports, Wilcke has been taking it to Holloway, so there's that.
Click to expand...

Your room reports are very wrong. Wilcke is much smaller and he has never had the style to really "take it to someone."
 
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