Not saying these were the reasons for the loss.... but what was that foul call that gave Cook his 4th? Looked like possibly an offensive fouls. Bailed them out big time and sent Cook to the bench. The next one they overturned an out of bounds to Iowa and gave it to Illinois. I literally have no clue what they could've seen, it wasn't even close. That's 2 out of the last 3 losses we've gotten jobbed at the end by officiating.
2 calls that hurt
- Thread starter gohawks7470
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Yes, amazing how thin the line between wining and losing can be.
Iowa's feels like a program stuck in 2nd gear. Actually the entire athletics department kind of feels like that, save for wrestling.
Suggesting that the only fair shake was in East Lansing? What has this world come to?
Our kids played their butts off. Tight game between two average teams. Time to move on.
We had our chances outside of those calls but they have to be deflating. That out of bounds call is about as bad as it gets, wasn't even close.
Not all. Referring to the ones I do: football, men's and women's basketball, and wrestling. Used to go to volleyball games sometimes, but not any more.
Coaches get two review requests per game for specific plays—anything regarding an out-of-bounds line, review of two versus three point shot, end-of-clock scenarios, and flagrant foul scenarios. If the review request reverses call, you keep the review. These review requests can be used at any time.
Flagrant foul scenarios are reviewed to see if, for example, refs only caught the retaliation, or to downgrade. No "upgrade" possible. Whenever a foul is upgraded I swear it's because every hard-ish foul looks much worse in slow motion. The game is played at normal speed, so subjective calls should be reviewed in normal speed.
Objective calls such as in or out, 2 or 3, off in time or not—slow it down, frame-by-frame if needed.
Using the Minnesota game as an example, if Fran has a review request in his pocket he can call for one on that Ellingson time out/jump ball call—but only to claim that the Gopher was out of bounds when he tied up Ellingson (which I don't think he was aware of at the time). But let's say Bohannon saw it and runs to tell Fran to use the review, the Gopher was out. That should be reviewable because play has stopped and it affects the call made (can't award possession to a player ruled out of bounds).
If I'm not mistaken, the NBA D-League is experimenting with something like this. At least last time I did some work for them it was being discussed.
4th foul on cook was just a terrible call no excuse for that it was either a offensive foul or no call, cook didn't touch him.
There was quite a few bad calls in the 2nd half but the team didn't deserve to win this game they played awful. I'm still happy with this team they have surpassed my expectations from the beginning of the year.
I think the Minnesota game really got to this young group I think if the refs get that game right we win this game, the team just looks delated. Hopefully they get it back together and play well in the BTT.
There was quite a few bad calls in the 2nd half but the team didn't deserve to win this game they played awful. I'm still happy with this team they have surpassed my expectations from the beginning of the year.
I think the Minnesota game really got to this young group I think if the refs get that game right we win this game, the team just looks delated. Hopefully they get it back together and play well in the BTT.
college officiating is just pure shit most games and crews seem to have an axe to grind with Fran.
I wish they could stuff their pride and give the kids a fair shake but it seems imposible for them to do. assholes.
I wish they could stuff their pride and give the kids a fair shake but it seems imposible for them to do. assholes.
Iowa lost that game in the first half. Sloppy play and too many turnovers. Illinois went 6 minutes without scoring but the Hawks did nothing to take advantage of it. We should have been up 15+ at halftime.
I made a comment in the game thread that Iowa needed to step it up in the second half because Illinois was probably not going to continue to shoot poorly.
The Hawks still have the same 2 problems they have had during most of Fran's tenure:
1. A true point guard who can break down his opponent with the dribble.
2. A team leader.
We have no true point guard on the team and none coming in. This continues to baffle me. How can so many MAC level teams get one, but Fran can't?
As for a leader....Bohannon, Cook, and Baer have potential, but are either reluctant to step up or maybe Fran discourages this. Who knows?
It is frustrating.
I made a comment in the game thread that Iowa needed to step it up in the second half because Illinois was probably not going to continue to shoot poorly.
The Hawks still have the same 2 problems they have had during most of Fran's tenure:
1. A true point guard who can break down his opponent with the dribble.
2. A team leader.
We have no true point guard on the team and none coming in. This continues to baffle me. How can so many MAC level teams get one, but Fran can't?
As for a leader....Bohannon, Cook, and Baer have potential, but are either reluctant to step up or maybe Fran discourages this. Who knows?
It is frustrating.
As bad as they were playing, the entire game really, they were always close or in the lead and I thought once they get it together we should win this game comfortably. Obviously an 8 minute fg drought in the 2nd half didn't help matters (how is that even possible? on your Home court no less...........). They played like crap, and got the result they earned, a loss to a very average at best Illinois team.
I knew we were in trouble the second I saw the 3 we had...the one who called the foul on Cook has deer in the headlight look. Week Trio.
The timeout granted to Illinois was allowed when the ball was in scrum ... no one had possession..but he heard TO. Holy shit...I swear when it pours..
The foul called against JBo when JBo & someone else had an Illinois player in a trap..right in front of Fran..was amazing...same guy who called the foul on Cook...he has no concept when the player on offense initiates the contact.
And no its wasn't the officials who shot 31%...we did. Doesn't mean these 3 were johnny on the spot...watching the replay...I need pills...stomach pills....
The timeout granted to Illinois was allowed when the ball was in scrum ... no one had possession..but he heard TO. Holy shit...I swear when it pours..
The foul called against JBo when JBo & someone else had an Illinois player in a trap..right in front of Fran..was amazing...same guy who called the foul on Cook...he has no concept when the player on offense initiates the contact.
And no its wasn't the officials who shot 31%...we did. Doesn't mean these 3 were johnny on the spot...watching the replay...I need pills...stomach pills....
I get this leader thing...but I guess what I don't get...how do you know who is or should be a 'team leader"? How do you know that JBo or Cook or Baer are or are not...team leaders? Are you talking vocal? Why would you say that maybe Fran would discourage leadership,,,and then say Who knows?...call me confused.
I know this much..8 shot attempts by one of the best shooters we have had in Iowa history is not enough...but then again he satisfied a number of posters' request.
...yesterday JBo seemed to do a lot of dribbling...I'm sure Illinoise defense had something to do with that. Not one of JBo's better games...29 min too much...CWilliams 11 minutes too little..IMO.
RED FACE COACH TOUGHEST TEAM! PLAYERS WILL TURN CORNER.MY OPINION.NEEDED CAPS FOR THIS NO ?
I really don't know who should be the team leader. For all I know, they already have someone who does this in practice. And whether Fran encourages or discourages it....again, nothing but speculation.
I am just going by perception. How often under Fran has there been a player that you can tell has put the team on his back and has willed or carried the team to victory in the past few minutes of a close game? How many Jimmy Chitwoods said "I'll make it" and then proceeded to do so?
The Hawks have lost a disproportionate number of close games under Fran. A missed free throw here, a poor shot selection there, an opponent left open for a game winning 3, an unforced turnover.....
One thing that is common in winning teams...in all sports.....they may have a poor game, but if it is close, they somehow seem to pull out a victory more often than not.
Honestly, I am not bashing this team. They are young. I expected mistakes and a poor record going in. But some things have been a constant throughout Fran's tenure here. Why...I don't know. I expect certain things to get better and they just never seem to.
I think Bohannon is the team leader, but sort of deferring to the sort of de facto leader in Jok. From what I've seen and heard, Bohannon since almost day one on campus has been the guy. I am optimistic that once Jok's career is over Iowa can finally be in the hands of someone who, by all accounts, is a natural leader.
From Gatens to Marble to White/Woody/Gesell to Uthoff to Jok we've had excellent character guys, good guys, hard working guys, but none of these guys I would describe as natural leaders. None of these guys conjures images of Mateen Cleaves or Jacque Vaughn, or even a Tum Tum Nairn. Two things this Iowa program has lacked for many years is a singularly dominant personality responsible for the majority of on-court decision-making. It's why I was so disappointed we lost Ulis to Kentucky. He was everything the program needed to take a big step forward—everything.
So while I don't expect Bohannon to be the next Mateen Cleaves, he does conjure up thoughts of Cleaves. I think next year he will immediately impress us as the obvious leader, and we will be (mostly) happy with the outcomes of his leadership.
That said, Iowa needs more "dogs." More guys playing on the edge. Pemsl has played at times on the edge, and oddly, he sticks out so much that refs immediately react to him despite often his play being the equal (physicality-wise) of multiple guys on the other side. It's as if Iowa is expected to be good, hard-playing kids—but relatively soft.
Anyways, I'm hopeful if for no other reasons than Bohannon's potential as a leader and Pemsl's flashes of competitive "edginess."
u are kind of all over the map...I understand your frustration and the you are looking for A. Better Point Guard B. Team Leader.
Don't have any answers for you...it does bother me Jok only shoots 8 times yesterday....the apparent moving screen by Pemsl or Baer (cant remember which one) on the made 3 pointer by Jok was a killer IMO...that could have been a 7 pt lead at that point..those are the plays that lose games.
you are correct..winning teams somehow pull out victories more often than not..so far this year we are a .500 team (overall)...I guess the debate can be whether we are a better team...IMO I think we are..I think we should have a better overall .. 16-11 (7-7)..Omaha & Illinois losses should have been wins.
I just can't understand how an official 30 feet from the play can come in and overturn an official 5 feet from the play. Pathetic.
Kriener got the other one (first one) standing perfectly still.
Two of the three illegal screens were a complete joke considering how much Illinois was moving and not getting called.
And wrongly you could add.
As mentioned, the foul on Bohannon in front of the Iowa bench and the call on Cook on the sideline. How do these get called?
How much time was left when the out of bounds call was overturned? I just saw the 4th foul on cook for the first time - no way was that a foul! Their bodies never touched and Cook's arm or hand never touched, the only touch between them was the offensive players extended arm against Cooks chest. Probably not an offensive foul, but rather a no call.
I do think an above poster is on to something. Refs aren't used to Hawks being physical so when we are they call fouls. The same physical play from MSU, for example, is no foul
Around 2:24.
They commented on it being something like 24 seconds later they could review it. Also commented on how huge of a reversed call it was.
You are correct, team had no emotion. Lackluster play + lackluster crowd. Team got what they deserve,
Too many rushed shots, no patience when we get leads. Chucking up threes.
Waited to reply. Sad display of team basketball.FWIW, I could understand clearing out for Williams, but Bohannon can't jump, ball was blocked on lower part of the backboard.
First off, it was an ugly game, neither team looked good offensively. Cook looked good with his back to the basket, Pemsl missed 3-4 bunnies that he usually makes, and Jok/Bohannon missing the front end of a 1 & 1 and then both FT's hurt. Groce is from the Tom Crean/ Miles/ Little Richie mold. Be a 6th defender and over coach every second of every possession.
is #3 for Illinois the worst FT shooting guard ever? He looked like Deandre Jordan
The same official overturned two calls from beyond the 3 point line. Being at the game and not getting replay it was hard to tell if it was right or not, but the last one I thought was wrong.
Another play was giving the guy from Illinois a timeout diving on the ground and not having control of the ball. And Cook's fourth foul the official was behind him and saw him go back, but from the other side you could see an extended arm and push off by the Illinois player. That has to be no call or offensive.
The younger ref that runs around with his chest out and the bad haircut is atrocious. Last 30 seconds he called a loose ball foul and then asked the other 2 officials a question, then the scorers table, then the TV guys, and never once signaled what he was calling.
is #3 for Illinois the worst FT shooting guard ever? He looked like Deandre Jordan
The same official overturned two calls from beyond the 3 point line. Being at the game and not getting replay it was hard to tell if it was right or not, but the last one I thought was wrong.
Another play was giving the guy from Illinois a timeout diving on the ground and not having control of the ball. And Cook's fourth foul the official was behind him and saw him go back, but from the other side you could see an extended arm and push off by the Illinois player. That has to be no call or offensive.
The younger ref that runs around with his chest out and the bad haircut is atrocious. Last 30 seconds he called a loose ball foul and then asked the other 2 officials a question, then the scorers table, then the TV guys, and never once signaled what he was calling.
I've never been one for looking back and pointing fingers at the refs. They are human. Mistakes get made. I never want to say a win/loss happened because of the referees ... A game is 40 minutes long. You win the game during those 40 minutes ... A rogue call here or there ... meh ... Win the game outright ... Iowa was flat. Illinois earned the victory.
I agree with this today, too. Iowa played bad, and missed wide open shots. Brady air-balled one, and missed that wide open one at the end. The moving screen on Pemsl, was absolutely a moving screen, and a huge turning point in the game. We go up by 7, instead they made a layup and it's 2.
Iowa's bigs need to clean up the moving screens, because those calls have really hurt us the past few games. Given the hand checking and grabbing that is still usually allowed, I think officials have gotten too quick to call moving screens and it isn't just against the Hawks.
A lot of times it is on the guy with the ball going before the screener is set. It was too hard without a replay at Carver to see if that was the case but often it is.
