With all due respect, these kind of attacks comparing people to WW2 villains is tired. The idea that people in Italy of all places would want to preserve some kind of national culture and identity instead of being overrun by immigrants is not evil.
A far-right politician is poised to become Italy’s first female leader
- Thread starter cigaretteman
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I'm not comparing her to Mussolini. . . She said herself that he did good for the Italian people!!!
I'm not actually all that bothered by her political positions, it seems like standard right wing faire. What does bother me is rhetoric where she seems to like Mussolini and approve of his rule.
Has Italy had anything resembling effective governance since Mussolini?
Scary as it sounds to us - well to some of us at least - maybe fascism looks attractive to Italians in these perilous times.
Fascism is rising in popularity in several European nations. Arguably the US, too.
Why?
It would be interesting to have a serious (not food fight) conversation about fascism. Why is it popular? Does it have some redeeming qualities?
Scary as it sounds to us - well to some of us at least - maybe fascism looks attractive to Italians in these perilous times.
Fascism is rising in popularity in several European nations. Arguably the US, too.
Why?
It would be interesting to have a serious (not food fight) conversation about fascism. Why is it popular? Does it have some redeeming qualities?
Facisim tends to become popular when a significant portion of society feels it is losing control of it's norms...
No. I'm equating members of American Government to members of a foreign government that has nothing to do with us. You think I'm talking about ordinary citizens when I'm bring up the dumb policies of Dem congress people and the commie dictators they love?
Cool. So, nothing Boebert, MTG, Jordan, Johnson, McConnell, Cruz says in regards to more fascism doesn't matter a bit because they aren't the president. Gotcha.
I think the first thing people need to learn is how fascism is really defined. The whole term has been bastardized by the left and Trump haters but when you actually look at the traditional meaning of fascism you could make the case that several liberal Governors (Newsome, Whitmer, etc.) were more fascist during the COVID lockdowns than any politicians in American history. I tend to go with the Merriam-Webster definition which is much more accurate than the Wikipedia definition that those on the left like to use. A fascist can be on the left or the right. I'm a Libertarian so might see it differently but an autocrat is an autocrat.
Definition of FASCISM
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
Well, for the topic at hand, Italy,.. I think many Italians are concerned with the impact that significant immigration is having on their society.
See I think that's a stupid excuse. Pretty much since ancient times you have people worry about people who don't look like them living in their country and it has never once caused any country to lose it's identity. The people who caused countries to lose their identity is the fear mongering politicians who push people to be afraid of others.
People like Hilter, like Franco. They have taken democratic governments of free nations and turned them into despotic dictatorial regimes. All on the basis of some outside group that you are supposed to be afraid of.
Well in her speech she seemed irritated by gender idenity, religious idenity and consumerism as well. See the tweet in the post below.
For reals. Ever since Biden threw that word out, his minions have been busy using and abusing it.
fascism
făsh′ĭz″əm
noun
- A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
- A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
- Oppressive, dictatorial control.
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And thinking it's stupid would be your perogative,.. however, that doesn't make it any less real to those affected.
They where not really a country so to speak, just a collection of tribes sometimes loosely joined together in a confederacy.
Secondly and more importantly they didn't lose their culture because they invited some immigrants in but instead because a bunch of people from outside sent soldiers and disease and conquered them.
Plenty of countries have been openly conquered by outside forces. The Native Americans where conquered from the outside.
True, but nobody is losing their ability to identify as their birth gender, specific religion, or pronouns. What really seems to upset people is that others dare to identify themselves by different norms. The truth is this movement is about defining how others should identify themselves.
I agree. We libertarians - left, right or otherwise - should agree on this. Concentrations of power are the danger.
Unfortunately, many (most) who call themselves "libertarian" in the US these days are only concerned about governmental concentrations of power - and sometimes only federal-level governmental concentrations of power.
It's hard to take libertarians seriously as libertarians, if they ignore concentrations and abuses of power at local, state, church or corporate levels and only bitch about the federal government.
It's a fear in their heads just like it was in the heads of German Nazi's and in the heads of Spanish Francoists.
And instead what we got is democratic backsliding into tyrannical dictatorships, a World War, genocide, and a myriad of other human rights violations.
I reckon the nativists look upon uninvited immigrants as 'outside forces'.
Should everyone on the planet live in Western Europe and the U.S.?
Does a nation have a right to determine who it admits?
Much of the opprobrium aimed at Hungary is because they elect a leadership more interested in keeping the country Hungarian than opening the borders to foreigners.
Now Italy, another of the EU's 'border states' is doing the same.
Denmark is signing an agreement with Rwanda to return refugee seekers akin to Trump's 'remain in Mexico' agreement.
It’s hard for Americans to understand because our national culture is a melting pot. Italians and most of Europe have a much different history and perspective.
The fact that many of these immigrants are Muslims is not insignificant either.
I don't have a problem with sending them back. But the fear mongering and the hateful rhetoric. . . this is going to a very bad place.
And what is worse than all of that is the refusal of these leaders to accept the results of elections that they don't win. To be fair as far as I know this woman has not done that yet. But it has happened with Trump, it's happening right now with Jair Bolsonario.
What did you think of the EU Commission’s president before the election, basically threatening to withhold funds if Italians didn’t vote ‘correctly’.
Von der Leyen also came under criticism from the Polish government, with the deputy justice minister accusing Germany of running the EU.
"The President of the European Commission suggests that if the Italians elect a government that Brussels does not like, they may have funds blocked," Polish Deputy Justice Minister Sebastian Kaleta said on Twitter.
"Further proof that the "rule of law" is pure blackmail to impose EU, or rather German, dictates. Such is "democracy"," he added.
Mussolini invented and designed it and history attributes him historically as such. It's not unreasonable to associate authoritarian rule as fascistic. Perhaps non-minions can find more appropriate descriptors.
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Could not agree more. The old saying "power corrupts" applies to most institutions especially if they lack transparency. I'd add the press and big tech to your list as well.
Agreed. The nation most devastated by percentage of any European nation. The only country with Nazi death camps. Unbelievable? No. Right wing politics will make the already worse people horrible.
Other than MAGAts, who trusts Commie leaders? Trump loves him some Putin and Kim Jong-un....Can't say the same about Biden, though.
Not that you’ll read it.
For US citizens not being able to visit and conduct business in Cuba is absolute insanity. No phuquin' reason for it except for the politics of Florida. We do business with China, with Russia and damn near everyone else.....but not Cuba? Insanity.Not that you’ll read it.
Italy's relationship with the EU isn't a concern of mine. The rise of possible dictatorships in formerly democratic nations is.
