Aaron White career is the best crystal ball: Bye Jok

[Libradawg]

Aaron White single-handedly proved why Jok is the type of player you can most afford to lose. SPOILER: This is another very long post. High-volume shooters like Marble and Jok stunt development with IMMEDIATE benefits when they depart. All this is analysis centered around Aaron White's career. Read no further if not interested, especially if you are fine with Jok. Otherwise, let Aaron White tell us exactly what to expect and why through the details and statistical fallout from every single season:

Lost Gatens after standout Freshman year, added PG Gesell and C Woodbury to starting lineup. SO- Aaron White +23.7 FGA, +115 FTA with 5.8 extra MPG. Actual Production Increase 99 PTS, 1.7 PPG and
.5 RPG. Impressive with two players joining who were ranked so much higher

No key losses, identical starting lineup
JR- Aaron White minus 54 FGA, minus 97 FTA, minus 1.1 MPG Actual Production Increase 0 PPG .5 RPG

Lost Devyn Marble and Melsahn Basabe, Added Jarrod Uthoff and Anthony Clemmons to starting lineup prior to Senior season
SR- Aaron White +83 FGA +77 FTA +3.4 MPG Actual Production Increase 3.6 PPG, .6 RPG

One more stat: 436 FGA by Devyn Marble, next most White with 245 before entering pivotal Senior season.

One more stat: 466 FGA by Peter Jok, next most Jordan Bohannon with 304.

Marble and Jok were good but they not only stunted development of eventually superior players but they effectively ended their team's NCAA chances. The most telling thing here is that two freshman starters didn't prevent White from getting touches and added production, but Marble's senior status? THAT froze everything. Badly. So badly that he was arguably better as a freshman than a junior. The year Marble totally lost control.

It's easy to overlook exactly what Jok cost us in terms of player development - the guy didn't understand why playing with an injured back was a bad idea. TWICE he was willing - likely forced - to sit. Touches, shots, minutes all deprived from Bohannon, Cook, Moss, Pemsl and Williams. Just because their Actual Production was high doesn't mean that Bohannon-Cook were tapped out. I would have loved to see them run it for more than 2 games.

I'm posting this because we're worried about the wrong things. People make the mistake of seeking out Minutes, but it's SHOTS this team needs. His roster spot will give us either Moss or Garza the way Basabe's turned into Uthoff. Extra space is nice but it's useless if you're not involved in the offense. Exhibit: Uhl. But even if Moss or Williams or Wagner progress no further they can at least facilitate. Think Clemmons or Olaseni as seniors - we'll have that figured out before February.

Baer is already miles above the 3rd option on Marble's team. Come to think of it when have we ever had a 3rd like him? Last year? The only thing better than saying you see a lot of Ryan Bowen in him is for someone to vindicate it on the air. Much further than size and stature, Bowen was a crazy-rare player that kept learning unteachable skills. Suddenly here's Baer adding to his vertical. How many walk-ons abandon a 3-pt stroke that was at worst serviceable because it was awkward, only to come back 2 weeks later as if he purchased Adam Haluska's stroke off Craigslist?? Honestly that makes more sense to me than suggesting he developed it that quickly. He's the biggest beneficiary of the Jok departure by miles.

Aaron White isn't the ONLY example but he's the best cautionary tale. Remember, everyone thought Gesell and Woody were Bohannon-Cook. Lack of touches certainly wasn't the reason they never gave us what the latter already has. Uthoff and Jok quickly followed. EXACT same scenario as this team, right down to Baer forced into veteran duty as a sophomore like White. Baer's freshmen are producing in spades and his Marble is gone.

Again, all of these parallels would be impossible to get excited about with Jok. We've made the top 10, we've won 25 games, we've won NCAA games. We've been fine in spite of two extreme volume scorers. Forget the development stuff for now. Back to the other side of Jok. 9 games with an injured back, 6 severely. I don't know if poor basketball IQ spilled over to life but he talked his way into 7 of those games. I hope he's just stupid, because the only other option is he used his seniority to effectively lie to his coach at the expense of not only his teammates but future players who really can contribute through pain.

Nobody knows the ramifications a single win would have had, nobody knows how winnable most of those games were, nobody more aware of what the Kid Crew pulled off those 2 games than FRAN. Nobody shoulders more guilt for having missed the Tournament.

But guess what? It really wouldn't have been that amazing. With these players we'll wonder how TF it ever came to be in doubt. Jok shot because he was great at it. Clearly he regretted staying in school, even if it meant going late in round 2. 2017 exposed his inability to drive the ball. My favorite player for 3 years and this is the post I'm making to send him off.

I felt worse about Romo.

Goodbye Jok.

 

[CanadaHawk]

Aaron White single-handedly proved why Jok is the type of player you can most afford to lose. SPOILER: This is another very long post. High-volume shooters like Marble and Jok stunt development with IMMEDIATE benefits when they depart. All this is analysis centered around Aaron White's career. Read no further if not interested, especially if you are fine with Jok. Otherwise, let Aaron White tell us exactly what to expect and why through the details and statistical fallout from every single season:

Lost Gatens after standout Freshman year, added PG Gesell and C Woodbury to starting lineup. SO- Aaron White +23.7 FGA, +115 FTA with 5.8 extra MPG. Actual Production Increase 99 PTS, 1.7 PPG and
.5 RPG. Impressive with two players joining who were ranked so much higher

No key losses, identical starting lineup
JR- Aaron White minus 54 FGA, minus 97 FTA, minus 1.1 MPG Actual Production Increase 0 PPG .5 RPG

Lost Devyn Marble and Melsahn Basabe, Added Jarrod Uthoff and Anthony Clemmons to starting lineup prior to Senior season
SR- Aaron White +83 FGA +77 FTA +3.4 MPG Actual Production Increase 3.6 PPG, .6 RPG

One more stat: 436 FGA by Devyn Marble, next most White with 245 before entering pivotal Senior season.

One more stat: 466 FGA by Peter Jok, next most Jordan Bohannon with 304.

Marble and Jok were good but they not only stunted development of eventually superior players but they effectively ended their team's NCAA chances. The most telling thing here is that two freshman starters didn't prevent White from getting touches and added production, but Marble's senior status? THAT froze everything. Badly. So badly that he was arguably better as a freshman than a junior. The year Marble totally lost control.

It's easy to overlook exactly what Jok cost us in terms of player development - the guy didn't understand why playing with an injured back was a bad idea. TWICE he was willing - likely forced - to sit. Touches, shots, minutes all deprived from Bohannon, Cook, Moss, Pemsl and Williams. Just because their Actual Production was high doesn't mean that Bohannon-Cook were tapped out. I would have loved to see them run it for more than 2 games.

I'm posting this because we're worried about the wrong things. People make the mistake of seeking out Minutes, but it's SHOTS this team needs. His roster spot will give us either Moss or Garza the way Basabe's turned into Uthoff. Extra space is nice but it's useless if you're not involved in the offense. Exhibit: Uhl. But even if Moss or Williams or Wagner progress no further they can at least facilitate. Think Clemmons or Olaseni as seniors - we'll have that figured out before February.

Baer is already miles above the 3rd option on Marble's team. Come to think of it when have we ever had a 3rd like him? Last year? The only thing better than saying you see a lot of Ryan Bowen in him is for someone to vindicate it on the air. Much further than size and stature, Bowen was a crazy-rare player that kept learning unteachable skills. Suddenly here's Baer adding to his vertical. How many walk-ons abandon a 3-pt stroke that was at worst serviceable because it was awkward, only to come back 2 weeks later as if he purchased Adam Haluska's stroke off Craigslist?? Honestly that makes more sense to me than suggesting he developed it that quickly. He's the biggest beneficiary of the Jok departure by miles.

Aaron White isn't the ONLY example but he's the best cautionary tale. Remember, everyone thought Gesell and Woody were Bohannon-Cook. Lack of touches certainly wasn't the reason they never gave us what the latter already has. Uthoff and Jok quickly followed. EXACT same scenario as this team, right down to Baer forced into veteran duty as a sophomore like White. Baer's freshmen are producing in spades and his Marble is gone.

Again, all of these parallels would be impossible to get excited about with Jok. We've made the top 10, we've won 25 games, we've won NCAA games. We've been fine in spite of two extreme volume scorers. Forget the development stuff for now. Back to the other side of Jok. 9 games with an injured back, 6 severely. I don't know if poor basketball IQ spilled over to life but he talked his way into 7 of those games. I hope he's just stupid, because the only other option is he used his seniority to effectively lie to his coach at the expense of not only his teammates but future players who really can contribute through pain.

Nobody knows the ramifications a single win would have had, nobody knows how winnable most of those games were, nobody more aware of what the Kid Crew pulled off those 2 games than FRAN. Nobody shoulders more guilt for having missed the Tournament.

But guess what? It really wouldn't have been that amazing. With these players we'll wonder how TF it ever came to be in doubt. Jok shot because he was great at it. Clearly he regretted staying in school, even if it meant going late in round 2. 2017 exposed his inability to drive the ball. My favorite player for 3 years and this is the post I'm making to send him off.

I felt worse about Romo.

Goodbye Jok.

Think we could be better next year because we were what, the youngest P5 team in the nation last year.

 

[nu2u]

why Jok is the type of player you can most afford to lose.

Your argument is incoherent, rambling, and riddled with dubious conclusions.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Aaron White single-handedly proved why Jok is the type of player you can most afford to lose. SPOILER: This is another very long post. High-volume shooters like Marble and Jok stunt development with IMMEDIATE benefits when they depart. All this is analysis centered around Aaron White's career. Read no further if not interested, especially if you are fine with Jok. Otherwise, let Aaron White tell us exactly what to expect and why through the details and statistical fallout from every single season:

Lost Gatens after standout Freshman year, added PG Gesell and C Woodbury to starting lineup. SO- Aaron White +23.7 FGA, +115 FTA with 5.8 extra MPG. Actual Production Increase 99 PTS, 1.7 PPG and
.5 RPG. Impressive with two players joining who were ranked so much higher

No key losses, identical starting lineup
JR- Aaron White minus 54 FGA, minus 97 FTA, minus 1.1 MPG Actual Production Increase 0 PPG .5 RPG

Lost Devyn Marble and Melsahn Basabe, Added Jarrod Uthoff and Anthony Clemmons to starting lineup prior to Senior season
SR- Aaron White +83 FGA +77 FTA +3.4 MPG Actual Production Increase 3.6 PPG, .6 RPG

One more stat: 436 FGA by Devyn Marble, next most White with 245 before entering pivotal Senior season.

One more stat: 466 FGA by Peter Jok, next most Jordan Bohannon with 304.

Marble and Jok were good but they not only stunted development of eventually superior players but they effectively ended their team's NCAA chances. The most telling thing here is that two freshman starters didn't prevent White from getting touches and added production, but Marble's senior status? THAT froze everything. Badly. So badly that he was arguably better as a freshman than a junior. The year Marble totally lost control.

It's easy to overlook exactly what Jok cost us in terms of player development - the guy didn't understand why playing with an injured back was a bad idea. TWICE he was willing - likely forced - to sit. Touches, shots, minutes all deprived from Bohannon, Cook, Moss, Pemsl and Williams. Just because their Actual Production was high doesn't mean that Bohannon-Cook were tapped out. I would have loved to see them run it for more than 2 games.

I'm posting this because we're worried about the wrong things. People make the mistake of seeking out Minutes, but it's SHOTS this team needs. His roster spot will give us either Moss or Garza the way Basabe's turned into Uthoff. Extra space is nice but it's useless if you're not involved in the offense. Exhibit: Uhl. But even if Moss or Williams or Wagner progress no further they can at least facilitate. Think Clemmons or Olaseni as seniors - we'll have that figured out before February.

Baer is already miles above the 3rd option on Marble's team. Come to think of it when have we ever had a 3rd like him? Last year? The only thing better than saying you see a lot of Ryan Bowen in him is for someone to vindicate it on the air. Much further than size and stature, Bowen was a crazy-rare player that kept learning unteachable skills. Suddenly here's Baer adding to his vertical. How many walk-ons abandon a 3-pt stroke that was at worst serviceable because it was awkward, only to come back 2 weeks later as if he purchased Adam Haluska's stroke off Craigslist?? Honestly that makes more sense to me than suggesting he developed it that quickly. He's the biggest beneficiary of the Jok departure by miles.

Aaron White isn't the ONLY example but he's the best cautionary tale. Remember, everyone thought Gesell and Woody were Bohannon-Cook. Lack of touches certainly wasn't the reason they never gave us what the latter already has. Uthoff and Jok quickly followed. EXACT same scenario as this team, right down to Baer forced into veteran duty as a sophomore like White. Baer's freshmen are producing in spades and his Marble is gone.

Again, all of these parallels would be impossible to get excited about with Jok. We've made the top 10, we've won 25 games, we've won NCAA games. We've been fine in spite of two extreme volume scorers. Forget the development stuff for now. Back to the other side of Jok. 9 games with an injured back, 6 severely. I don't know if poor basketball IQ spilled over to life but he talked his way into 7 of those games. I hope he's just stupid, because the only other option is he used his seniority to effectively lie to his coach at the expense of not only his teammates but future players who really can contribute through pain.

Nobody knows the ramifications a single win would have had, nobody knows how winnable most of those games were, nobody more aware of what the Kid Crew pulled off those 2 games than FRAN. Nobody shoulders more guilt for having missed the Tournament.

But guess what? It really wouldn't have been that amazing. With these players we'll wonder how TF it ever came to be in doubt. Jok shot because he was great at it. Clearly he regretted staying in school, even if it meant going late in round 2. 2017 exposed his inability to drive the ball. My favorite player for 3 years and this is the post I'm making to send him off.

I felt worse about Romo.

Goodbye Jok.

You lost me after you said we lost Gatens after his outstanding freshman year

 

[oakhawk]

Bad math.

 

[iowalawhawk]

Where to start...

Lost Gatens after standout Freshman year

Huh?

Marble and Jok were good but they not only stunted development of eventually superior players

Who's eventually superior to Jok? How can you say that when they haven't played post-Jok yet?

Marble's senior status? THAT froze everything. Badly. So badly that he was arguably better as a freshman than a junior. The year Marble totally lost control.

Marble's senior year was so bad that his junior year was worse than his freshman year? Is that the point you're making? Or is it just that Marble's junior year where quite literally ALL of his stats (per game, per possession, simple, advanced, whatever) was better than his freshman year?

It's easy to overlook exactly what Jok cost us in terms of player development - the guy didn't understand why playing with an injured back was a bad idea.

Apparently neither did the trainers or coaching staff.

His roster spot will give us either Moss or Garza the way Basabe's turned into Uthoff.

So either Moss or Garza will be that much better than Jok?

Baer is already miles above the 3rd option on Marble's team.

You mean Jarrod Uthoff?

Suddenly here's Baer adding to his vertical.

Link?

He's the biggest beneficiary of the Jok departure by miles.

You mean the departure that just happened and we haven't seen the effects of yet?

Remember, everyone thought Gesell and Woody were Bohannon-Cook.

??

Lack of touches certainly wasn't the reason they never gave us what the latter already has.

Like three NCAA appearances? Oh wait, that was the former.

EXACT same scenario as this team, right down to Baer forced into veteran duty as a sophomore like White.

White barely played more as a soph than he did as a freshman.

I don't know if poor basketball IQ spilled over to life but he talked his way into 7 of those games. I hope he's just stupid, because the only other option is he used his seniority to effectively lie to his coach at the expense of not only his teammates but future players who really can contribute through pain.

Shaking my damned head...

Jok shot because he was great at it.

YES!!! That's exactly it. He shot. Because. He. Was. Great. At. It. Better than anyone else on last year's team.

Clearly he regretted staying in school

Where the hell are you getting that?

2017 exposed his inability to drive the ball.

I don't think anyone ever thought he could drive the ball.

My favorite player for 3 years and this is the post I'm making to send him off.

I'd love to see your opinion of players you don't like then.

 

[DanL53]

Aaron White single-handedly proved why Jok is the type of player you can most afford to lose. SPOILER: This is another very long post. High-volume shooters like Marble and Jok stunt development with IMMEDIATE benefits when they depart. All this is analysis centered around Aaron White's career. Read no further if not interested, especially if you are fine with Jok. Otherwise, let Aaron White tell us exactly what to expect and why through the details and statistical fallout from every single season:

Lost Gatens after standout Freshman year, added PG Gesell and C Woodbury to starting lineup. SO- Aaron White +23.7 FGA, +115 FTA with 5.8 extra MPG. Actual Production Increase 99 PTS, 1.7 PPG and
.5 RPG. Impressive with two players joining who were ranked so much higher

No key losses, identical starting lineup
JR- Aaron White minus 54 FGA, minus 97 FTA, minus 1.1 MPG Actual Production Increase 0 PPG .5 RPG

Lost Devyn Marble and Melsahn Basabe, Added Jarrod Uthoff and Anthony Clemmons to starting lineup prior to Senior season
SR- Aaron White +83 FGA +77 FTA +3.4 MPG Actual Production Increase 3.6 PPG, .6 RPG

One more stat: 436 FGA by Devyn Marble, next most White with 245 before entering pivotal Senior season.

One more stat: 466 FGA by Peter Jok, next most Jordan Bohannon with 304.

Marble and Jok were good but they not only stunted development of eventually superior players but they effectively ended their team's NCAA chances. The most telling thing here is that two freshman starters didn't prevent White from getting touches and added production, but Marble's senior status? THAT froze everything. Badly. So badly that he was arguably better as a freshman than a junior. The year Marble totally lost control.

It's easy to overlook exactly what Jok cost us in terms of player development - the guy didn't understand why playing with an injured back was a bad idea. TWICE he was willing - likely forced - to sit. Touches, shots, minutes all deprived from Bohannon, Cook, Moss, Pemsl and Williams. Just because their Actual Production was high doesn't mean that Bohannon-Cook were tapped out. I would have loved to see them run it for more than 2 games.

I'm posting this because we're worried about the wrong things. People make the mistake of seeking out Minutes, but it's SHOTS this team needs. His roster spot will give us either Moss or Garza the way Basabe's turned into Uthoff. Extra space is nice but it's useless if you're not involved in the offense. Exhibit: Uhl. But even if Moss or Williams or Wagner progress no further they can at least facilitate. Think Clemmons or Olaseni as seniors - we'll have that figured out before February.

Baer is already miles above the 3rd option on Marble's team. Come to think of it when have we ever had a 3rd like him? Last year? The only thing better than saying you see a lot of Ryan Bowen in him is for someone to vindicate it on the air. Much further than size and stature, Bowen was a crazy-rare player that kept learning unteachable skills. Suddenly here's Baer adding to his vertical. How many walk-ons abandon a 3-pt stroke that was at worst serviceable because it was awkward, only to come back 2 weeks later as if he purchased Adam Haluska's stroke off Craigslist?? Honestly that makes more sense to me than suggesting he developed it that quickly. He's the biggest beneficiary of the Jok departure by miles.

Aaron White isn't the ONLY example but he's the best cautionary tale. Remember, everyone thought Gesell and Woody were Bohannon-Cook. Lack of touches certainly wasn't the reason they never gave us what the latter already has. Uthoff and Jok quickly followed. EXACT same scenario as this team, right down to Baer forced into veteran duty as a sophomore like White. Baer's freshmen are producing in spades and his Marble is gone.

Again, all of these parallels would be impossible to get excited about with Jok. We've made the top 10, we've won 25 games, we've won NCAA games. We've been fine in spite of two extreme volume scorers. Forget the development stuff for now. Back to the other side of Jok. 9 games with an injured back, 6 severely. I don't know if poor basketball IQ spilled over to life but he talked his way into 7 of those games. I hope he's just stupid, because the only other option is he used his seniority to effectively lie to his coach at the expense of not only his teammates but future players who really can contribute through pain.

Nobody knows the ramifications a single win would have had, nobody knows how winnable most of those games were, nobody more aware of what the Kid Crew pulled off those 2 games than FRAN. Nobody shoulders more guilt for having missed the Tournament.

But guess what? It really wouldn't have been that amazing. With these players we'll wonder how TF it ever came to be in doubt. Jok shot because he was great at it. Clearly he regretted staying in school, even if it meant going late in round 2. 2017 exposed his inability to drive the ball. My favorite player for 3 years and this is the post I'm making to send him off.

I felt worse about Romo.

Goodbye Jok.

Keep posting your opinions. That's all we've got until 2017/18 is opinions. I'm not even going to dwell on if I agree or disagree, in this post, you worked too hard on that. That's what I wanted to focus on for now.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

I wouldn't know where to begin ripping holes in this.

One) you ramble and there is no semblance of a clear line of thought or logic that ties anything you wrote together two) you apparently observe spurious relationships that I am still at a loss for how you're connecting those dots and three) you conveniently ignore all the games Iowa would have lost this year had the B1G's leading scorer (that would be Jok) hadn't stepped up and scored at will.

Bohannon was great at the end of the season otherwise all of the freshmen and young guys (including Baer) did indeed show signs of volume scoring potential but they were also very erratic and inconsistent the entire season (like Jok was when he was younger). Scoring and getting shots up was not the issue for the Iowa basketball team last season. With that said, there were many times Iowa did indeed need to rely on their senior leader to get points when the young guys were struggling. How you could conclude that translated to Jok stifling their offensive production is beyond me. What you described is a dynamic that occurs on a lot of teams not named Kentucky--upperclassmen develop and step up as leaders by the time they are seniors. This happened with Roy Marble Jr., it happened with Aaron White, it happened with the seniors of 2016, and it happened with Jok this year.

In short, WTF are you talking about?

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Kilroy!!!!!!

 

[DanL53]

Now. Things I disagreed with:

1) The use of short sample sizes to place success and failures of previous teams on the leading scorers. Sure, Marble was a volume scorer, he had to be. Jok? It wasn't so much his shooting or playing while injured that cost us an NCAA invite. I recall we finished 10-8 in the Big Ten. But we were behind the eight ball from the nonconference, and Jok pretty much carried us while the young kids got their learning experience.

2) We fans always get that lovely advantage of 20/20 hindsight. But then we carry it further. Had Jok sat out while wounded, who is to say we'd have won more games? I know we won two without him. But more? Who knows? Players play wounded all the time. Even Jok did at the start of the 2014/15 season which gave Clemmons and Oglesby more time on the court. That was dealing with an ankle problem, a reoccurring problem.

3) I agree that everything is ultimately McCaffery's responsibility. But I don't agree with what seemed a simplified choice to pick a hypothetical result of just a little better as what should have happened last season. Me, from my view it was one of Fran's best single season coaching jobs. We were competitive with kids just out of high school playing a lot of minutes.

4) It is not so much that Jok is gone, as the development of younger players that will add to our fortunes this coming season.

5) I found the emphasis on shots taken to be one dimensional. Jok drew the best exterior defender to him every game. With him gone unless someone steps up, Bohannon is going to get that privilege...and probably will anyway. Our key this year isn't worrying about who takes Jok's shots. Our key is improving defense, rebounding, and having the spacing and movement be such in the offense that our best scorers get the best shots.

 

[mazda1]

I agree team defense and rebounding will determine how well we do next year. For this reason I think the size of Garza and Nunge give them both a chance to see decent minutes.

As far as shots are concerned I am not as concerned about who takes them as I am ensuring we get the looks each person is most comfortable with. If we can have Moss getting to the rim, Pemsl down low one on one, Cook posting up, and decent looks for J Bo from three IMO we will be better off than trying to force Cook, J Bo, and Pemsl's mid-range game or a Moss pull up. All of the latter would be wonderful if they develop those skills, but much like trying to get Jok to beat people off the bounce you can get bad results trying to teach a pig to sing.

We will miss the pure stroke of Jok, but I'm not concerned about our ability to score in spite of additional defensive pressure on the rest of the team.

 

[RocknRollface]

Kilroy!!!!!!

Nah. Its not that bad.

 

[RocknRollface]

Now. Things I disagreed with:

1) The use of short sample sizes to place success and failures of previous teams on the leading scorers. Sure, Marble was a volume scorer, he had to be. Jok? It wasn't so much his shooting or playing while injured that cost us an NCAA invite. I recall we finished 10-8 in the Big Ten. But we were behind the eight ball from the nonconference, and Jok pretty much carried us while the young kids got their learning experience.

2) We fans always get that lovely advantage of 20/20 hindsight. But then we carry it further. Had Jok sat out while wounded, who is to say we'd have won more games? I know we won two without him. But more? Who knows? Players play wounded all the time. Even Jok did at the start of the 2014/15 season which gave Clemmons and Oglesby more time on the court. That was dealing with an ankle problem, a reoccurring problem.

3) I agree that everything is ultimately McCaffery's responsibility. But I don't agree with what seemed a simplified choice to pick a hypothetical result of just a little better as what should have happened last season. Me, from my view it was one of Fran's best single season coaching jobs. We were competitive with kids just out of high school playing a lot of minutes.

4) It is not so much that Jok is gone, as the development of younger players that will add to our fortunes this coming season.

5) I found the emphasis on shots taken to be one dimensional. Jok drew the best exterior defender to him every game. With him gone unless someone steps up, Bohannon is going to get that privilege...and probably will anyway. Our key this year isn't worrying about who takes Jok's shots. Our key is improving defense, rebounding, and having the spacing and movement be such in the offense that our best scorers get the best shots.

5) Bohanon will probably always be defended by the opponents pg next year whether thats their best or worst perimiter defender.

 

[DanL53]

5) Bohanon will probably always be defended by the opponents pg next year whether thats their best or worst perimiter defender.

I hope you are right. But if I'm an opposing coach I want the ball out of his hands, and to stay out of his hands.

 

[StormHawk42]

Kilroy!!!!!!

Capitalization was used and not enough *'s mentioned. Close but I'd say not Kilroy.

 

[David1979]

What a weird title. "Aaron white is the best crystal ball" lol wut?

 

[SSG T]

 

[HawkGem11]

Aaron White single-handedly proved why Jok is the type of player you can most afford to lose. SPOILER: This is another very long post. High-volume shooters like Marble and Jok stunt development with IMMEDIATE benefits when they depart. All this is analysis centered around Aaron White's career. Read no further if not interested, especially if you are fine with Jok. Otherwise, let Aaron White tell us exactly what to expect and why through the details and statistical fallout from every single season:

Lost Gatens after standout Freshman year, added PG Gesell and C Woodbury to starting lineup. SO- Aaron White +23.7 FGA, +115 FTA with 5.8 extra MPG. Actual Production Increase 99 PTS, 1.7 PPG and
.5 RPG. Impressive with two players joining who were ranked so much higher

No key losses, identical starting lineup
JR- Aaron White minus 54 FGA, minus 97 FTA, minus 1.1 MPG Actual Production Increase 0 PPG .5 RPG

Lost Devyn Marble and Melsahn Basabe, Added Jarrod Uthoff and Anthony Clemmons to starting lineup prior to Senior season
SR- Aaron White +83 FGA +77 FTA +3.4 MPG Actual Production Increase 3.6 PPG, .6 RPG

One more stat: 436 FGA by Devyn Marble, next most White with 245 before entering pivotal Senior season.

One more stat: 466 FGA by Peter Jok, next most Jordan Bohannon with 304.

Marble and Jok were good but they not only stunted development of eventually superior players but they effectively ended their team's NCAA chances. The most telling thing here is that two freshman starters didn't prevent White from getting touches and added production, but Marble's senior status? THAT froze everything. Badly. So badly that he was arguably better as a freshman than a junior. The year Marble totally lost control.

It's easy to overlook exactly what Jok cost us in terms of player development - the guy didn't understand why playing with an injured back was a bad idea. TWICE he was willing - likely forced - to sit. Touches, shots, minutes all deprived from Bohannon, Cook, Moss, Pemsl and Williams. Just because their Actual Production was high doesn't mean that Bohannon-Cook were tapped out. I would have loved to see them run it for more than 2 games.

I'm posting this because we're worried about the wrong things. People make the mistake of seeking out Minutes, but it's SHOTS this team needs. His roster spot will give us either Moss or Garza the way Basabe's turned into Uthoff. Extra space is nice but it's useless if you're not involved in the offense. Exhibit: Uhl. But even if Moss or Williams or Wagner progress no further they can at least facilitate. Think Clemmons or Olaseni as seniors - we'll have that figured out before February.

Baer is already miles above the 3rd option on Marble's team. Come to think of it when have we ever had a 3rd like him? Last year? The only thing better than saying you see a lot of Ryan Bowen in him is for someone to vindicate it on the air. Much further than size and stature, Bowen was a crazy-rare player that kept learning unteachable skills. Suddenly here's Baer adding to his vertical. How many walk-ons abandon a 3-pt stroke that was at worst serviceable because it was awkward, only to come back 2 weeks later as if he purchased Adam Haluska's stroke off Craigslist?? Honestly that makes more sense to me than suggesting he developed it that quickly. He's the biggest beneficiary of the Jok departure by miles.

Aaron White isn't the ONLY example but he's the best cautionary tale. Remember, everyone thought Gesell and Woody were Bohannon-Cook. Lack of touches certainly wasn't the reason they never gave us what the latter already has. Uthoff and Jok quickly followed. EXACT same scenario as this team, right down to Baer forced into veteran duty as a sophomore like White. Baer's freshmen are producing in spades and his Marble is gone.

Again, all of these parallels would be impossible to get excited about with Jok. We've made the top 10, we've won 25 games, we've won NCAA games. We've been fine in spite of two extreme volume scorers. Forget the development stuff for now. Back to the other side of Jok. 9 games with an injured back, 6 severely. I don't know if poor basketball IQ spilled over to life but he talked his way into 7 of those games. I hope he's just stupid, because the only other option is he used his seniority to effectively lie to his coach at the expense of not only his teammates but future players who really can contribute through pain.

Nobody knows the ramifications a single win would have had, nobody knows how winnable most of those games were, nobody more aware of what the Kid Crew pulled off those 2 games than FRAN. Nobody shoulders more guilt for having missed the Tournament.

But guess what? It really wouldn't have been that amazing. With these players we'll wonder how TF it ever came to be in doubt. Jok shot because he was great at it. Clearly he regretted staying in school, even if it meant going late in round 2. 2017 exposed his inability to drive the ball. My favorite player for 3 years and this is the post I'm making to send him off.

I felt worse about Romo.

Goodbye Jok.

What a stupid joke of a blabbering post. You have never to zero idea what you are talking about and this might get awarded dumbest post of the year. Ugh what a waste of time

 

[And1Hawk]

Mad props to anyone who could read past the second paragraph. I tapped out early and was glad after I saw how much I had to scroll past.

 

[RocknRollface]

I hope you are right. But if I'm an opposing coach I want the ball out of his hands, and to stay out of his hands.

Then you're creating other unnecessary mismatches and you risk not being able to get matched up fast enough in transition, which is dangerouse against a team that wants to push tempo.

Most bigten pgs are already bigger and quicker so they will do everything they can to take away the 3 by playing tight and take their chances with him putting it on the floor.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

Then you're creating other unnecessary mismatches and you risk not being able to get matched up fast enough in transition, which is dangerouse against a team that wants to push tempo.

Most bigten pgs are already bigger and quicker so they will do everything they can to take away the 3 by playing tight and take their chances with him putting it on the floor.

I'm guessing that the other conference coaches probably already built that pressure into their defensive game plan by the second time around. Yet Bohannon performed much better in the second half of the season and was on fire in the final quarter of the season.

Multiple games of 20+/10+ by any freshman is impressive at point guard. Iowa does not get many kids that are capable of that output as freshmen. Bohannon was already driving much more frequently-having some trouble finishing but did improve as well. Obviously that particular skill needs work but the trend line was up.

 

[RocknRollface]

I'm guessing that the other conference coaches probably already built that pressure into their defensive game plan by the second time around. Yet Bohannon performed much better in the second half of the season and was on fire in the final quarter of the season.

Multiple games of 20+/10+ by any freshman is impressive at point guard. Iowa does not get many kids that are capable of that output as freshmen. Bohannon was already driving much more frequently-having some trouble finishing but did improve as well. Obviously that particular skill needs work but the trend line was up.

Missing the point of the discussion.

Sure, he did well. Took and made a lot of really long shots. Good offense beats good defense. I was simply stating the way in which you defend a guy who shoots first drives second. Theres really not another way to do it besides trapping.

The discussion was whether coaches are going to put their 2 or 3 on the pg. Which wont happen unless hes just going off like crazy and even then unlikely.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

I have to admit that I skipped through most of the OP and thread. I do agree that Iowa will be a better overall team next year without Jok, if we stay healthy, especially at PG. I expect Baer and maybe Nunge as the backup at the 3. I don't consider that a step down from Pete at all. Otherwise, we have the same players in the back court and on the interior, with a year of experience and time to improve their skills. Competition for minutes at the 4 and 5 should be pretty fierce.

 

[DanL53]

Then you're creating other unnecessary mismatches and you risk not being able to get matched up fast enough in transition, which is dangerouse against a team that wants to push tempo.

Most bigten pgs are already bigger and quicker so they will do everything they can to take away the 3 by playing tight and take their chances with him putting it on the floor.

I enjoy these kind of discussions. Wish there was a way to test each of our coaching methods. Me, I'm putting my best perimeter defender on Bohannon. And of course that would be half court defense, transition defense is an entirely different animal.

My goal is to not let that guy get his shot off, by keeping the ball out of his hands as much as possible. And when he has the ball, I want to make him pass it anywhere but to a big. As to creating other mismatches, frankly if Baer is at the three I'm not so sure my point guard wouldn't do a good job harassing that spark plug! I mean, nobody his size matches his energy, maybe a smaller guy could at least confound him with quickness? I'm presuming there is no room to post him up most of the time unless they are pulling bigs out and I'm not chasing them until they can hit shots.

I've got three exterior defenders. In most cases I can afford to switch them up. If I can't, I don't. But I want a guy who when Bohannon does have the ball can defend his little one dribble move to the left or right, back step and shoot.

I'm not letting him beat me. And that goes for his assists as well.

Now I suppose Moss will get hot. Cripes, now what?

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

RnR...

That was clearer, thanks. I too think that will be the game plan. I also think Bohannon is fast enough to get around most, although certainly not all, guys that are bigger than he. Obviously there will be some games where the defense works; but Bohannon will win most of those match ups.

The trick for Iowa is developing another reliable perimeter shooter/scorer. Ellingson is obviously a high percentage shooter (with other limitations of course). The Baer and Moss aren't that far away from being really good scoring options. Both shot close to 40% from three and showed the ability to score inside. If both make significant improvement the Iowa offense should be even better next year.

 

[cleotishaywood]

I'd say Aaron White holds the unofficial Iowa record for career dunks!
Really miss the finishes off fast breaks and the baseline lobs for the flush. He would try to tear down the rim anytime he got the opportunity!
He was a good free throw shooter but could have shot a better percentage from the arc. Hopefully Nunge has some of these qualities in his game. If he can run the floor like White and defend the perimeter like Uthoff, we'll be in business! Matching Uthoff's shooting range though would be hard to match.

 

[Mike Zierath]

Aaron White single-handedly proved why Jok is the type of player you can most afford to lose. SPOILER: This is another very long post. High-volume shooters like Marble and Jok stunt development with IMMEDIATE benefits when they depart. All this is analysis centered around Aaron White's career. Read no further if not interested, especially if you are fine with Jok. Otherwise, let Aaron White tell us exactly what to expect and why through the details and statistical fallout from every single season:

Lost Gatens after standout Freshman year, added PG Gesell and C Woodbury to starting lineup. SO- Aaron White +23.7 FGA, +115 FTA with 5.8 extra MPG. Actual Production Increase 99 PTS, 1.7 PPG and
.5 RPG. Impressive with two players joining who were ranked so much higher

No key losses, identical starting lineup
JR- Aaron White minus 54 FGA, minus 97 FTA, minus 1.1 MPG Actual Production Increase 0 PPG .5 RPG

Lost Devyn Marble and Melsahn Basabe, Added Jarrod Uthoff and Anthony Clemmons to starting lineup prior to Senior season
SR- Aaron White +83 FGA +77 FTA +3.4 MPG Actual Production Increase 3.6 PPG, .6 RPG

One more stat: 436 FGA by Devyn Marble, next most White with 245 before entering pivotal Senior season.

One more stat: 466 FGA by Peter Jok, next most Jordan Bohannon with 304.

Marble and Jok were good but they not only stunted development of eventually superior players but they effectively ended their team's NCAA chances. The most telling thing here is that two freshman starters didn't prevent White from getting touches and added production, but Marble's senior status? THAT froze everything. Badly. So badly that he was arguably better as a freshman than a junior. The year Marble totally lost control.

It's easy to overlook exactly what Jok cost us in terms of player development - the guy didn't understand why playing with an injured back was a bad idea. TWICE he was willing - likely forced - to sit. Touches, shots, minutes all deprived from Bohannon, Cook, Moss, Pemsl and Williams. Just because their Actual Production was high doesn't mean that Bohannon-Cook were tapped out. I would have loved to see them run it for more than 2 games.

I'm posting this because we're worried about the wrong things. People make the mistake of seeking out Minutes, but it's SHOTS this team needs. His roster spot will give us either Moss or Garza the way Basabe's turned into Uthoff. Extra space is nice but it's useless if you're not involved in the offense. Exhibit: Uhl. But even if Moss or Williams or Wagner progress no further they can at least facilitate. Think Clemmons or Olaseni as seniors - we'll have that figured out before February.

Baer is already miles above the 3rd option on Marble's team. Come to think of it when have we ever had a 3rd like him? Last year? The only thing better than saying you see a lot of Ryan Bowen in him is for someone to vindicate it on the air. Much further than size and stature, Bowen was a crazy-rare player that kept learning unteachable skills. Suddenly here's Baer adding to his vertical. How many walk-ons abandon a 3-pt stroke that was at worst serviceable because it was awkward, only to come back 2 weeks later as if he purchased Adam Haluska's stroke off Craigslist?? Honestly that makes more sense to me than suggesting he developed it that quickly. He's the biggest beneficiary of the Jok departure by miles.

Aaron White isn't the ONLY example but he's the best cautionary tale. Remember, everyone thought Gesell and Woody were Bohannon-Cook. Lack of touches certainly wasn't the reason they never gave us what the latter already has. Uthoff and Jok quickly followed. EXACT same scenario as this team, right down to Baer forced into veteran duty as a sophomore like White. Baer's freshmen are producing in spades and his Marble is gone.

Again, all of these parallels would be impossible to get excited about with Jok. We've made the top 10, we've won 25 games, we've won NCAA games. We've been fine in spite of two extreme volume scorers. Forget the development stuff for now. Back to the other side of Jok. 9 games with an injured back, 6 severely. I don't know if poor basketball IQ spilled over to life but he talked his way into 7 of those games. I hope he's just stupid, because the only other option is he used his seniority to effectively lie to his coach at the expense of not only his teammates but future players who really can contribute through pain.

Nobody knows the ramifications a single win would have had, nobody knows how winnable most of those games were, nobody more aware of what the Kid Crew pulled off those 2 games than FRAN. Nobody shoulders more guilt for having missed the Tournament.

But guess what? It really wouldn't have been that amazing. With these players we'll wonder how TF it ever came to be in doubt. Jok shot because he was great at it. Clearly he regretted staying in school, even if it meant going late in round 2. 2017 exposed his inability to drive the ball. My favorite player for 3 years and this is the post I'm making to send him off.

I felt worse about Romo.

Goodbye Jok.

When's the book signing?

Z

 

[HawkGem10]

I have to admit that I skipped through most of the OP and thread. I do agree that Iowa will be a better overall team next year without Jok, if we stay healthy, especially at PG. I expect Baer and maybe Nunge as the backup at the 3. I don't consider that a step down from Pete at all. Otherwise, we have the same players in the back court and on the interior, with a year of experience and time to improve their skills. Competition for minutes at the 4 and 5 should be pretty fierce.

Neither Baer who i love or Nunge as a FR is going to be anywhere near as good as Jok was last year, but that is some nice dream you got going...either one is going to be a step down from Jok.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Neither Baer who i love or Nunge as a FR is going to be anywhere near as good as Jok was last year, but that is some nice dream you got going...either one is going to be a step down from Jok.

Maybe not as good at shooting, but otherwise Baer is a better player. Maybe we won't have anyone who can be a one-man offense, like Pete could be, but with a year of experience for the bigs and the replacement of Jok by Baer, Iowa's defense is definitely going to be better. I don't follow detailed metrics, but I would be very surprised if Baer wasn't better than Jok overall. Who knows what Nunge will bring, or whether he will even be in the rotation next year.

 

[CanadaHawk]

Maybe not as good at shooting, but otherwise Baer is a better player. Maybe we won't have anyone who can be a one-man offense, like Pete could be, but with a year of experience for the bigs and the replacement of Jok by Baer, Iowa's defense is definitely going to be better. I don't follow detailed metrics, but I would be very surprised if Baer wasn't better than Jok overall. Who knows what Nunge will bring, or whether he will even be in the rotation next year.

According to these sports-reference. Com metrics, Baer was the second-best player in the B1G this year. We didn't lack for outside offense this year, that's for sure. But according to the metrics, we'll miss the former walkon more when he graduates.
http://qctimes.com/sports/basketbal...cle_bd51b860-81b3-5c34-a8b9-10b6e75a2118.html

 

[DanL53]

I'd say Aaron White holds the unofficial Iowa record for career dunks!
Really miss the finishes off fast breaks and the baseline lobs for the flush. He would try to tear down the rim anytime he got the opportunity!
He was a good free throw shooter but could have shot a better percentage from the arc. Hopefully Nunge has some of these qualities in his game. If he can run the floor like White and defend the perimeter like Uthoff, we'll be in business! Matching Uthoff's shooting range though would be hard to match.

I always enjoyed watching him off the ball trying to set up for an Alley-oop. Sneaky guy. Many players just cut to the backboard as fast as they can. Aaron would get lost way back by the line and just hang around. If the defender was watching the ball and not him he'd WANDER closer to the rim, his take off from a standing, two foot, jump, made him pretty special.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

I didn't read the post but doesn't most every team in the country get better when they lose All-Americans?

 

[BirdistheWord]

try to summarize: Jok was a bit of a ball hog and we should be ok next year

 

[RocknRollface]

I didn't read the post but doesn't most every team in the country get better when they lose All-Americans?

Iowa isn't losing an all American and they will absolutely be better next year.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

Iowa isn't losing an all American and they will absolutely be better next year.

So being an All American doesn't qualify as being an All American?!

I think we'll be better too but not because we are losing 1 of the best CBB players in the country. Kind of a dumb thing to say imo.

 

[HawkGem11]

try to summarize: Jok was a bit of a ball hog and we should be ok next year

Not even close you fool stop posting becuase you keep showing us how clueless you are

 

[RocknRollface]

So being an All American doesn't qualify as being an All American?!

I think we'll be better too but not because we are losing 1 of the best CBB players in the country. Kind of a dumb thing to say imo.

Which all american team?

You said it, I just the team will be better.

 

[CanadaHawk]

Jok was an honorable mention All-America. The team will improve this year because the 6 Freshmen will be Sophomores. Because of this, if Jok were still on the team, we would still be better. But he would not lead the league in scoring on that mythical team, and be better for it.

 

[kceasthawk]

Jok may have lead the league in scoring, but his impact for Iowa diminished dramatically as the year went on. Mid year he was averaging over 24 pts per game and was second nationally I believe at power five schools. He had some huge games over 30 pts including 42 in one game. As the season went on his scoring fell dramatically, falling more then 5pts per game. Part of this was of course due to his nagging injuries. The bigger part, at least as it effects Iowa going forward, is that the freshmen really stepped up their games. Cook became much more effective down low, especially after recovering from his finger injury. JBo really progressed the last third of the season. Moss also had his moments, and looks like he's poised to make a big jump next season. IMHO the Hawks will not suffer offensively from Jok's departure, and will be better defensively then last season.

 

[ZumaHawk]

I'm thinking the biggest reason his average dropped 5 points is because of the Big10. Face it playing bad teams a shooter of his caliber can go off for 42. Against Big10 competition is much more difficult obviously. Jok was a very good Hawkeye and our new young team will be better moving forward!!!