Abundance Movement is a Neoliberal Rebrand

[Moral]

Who doesn't love abundance? That is the first hint that this movement falls in line with the consumer and expansion functions of neoliberalism. The next hint is that neoliberal mouth piece Ezra Klein is behind it. Turns out it is also billionaire backed by people such as the still alive Koch brother as well as other libertarians.

Stop falling for centristy sounding things. We already have enough unfettered capitalism, and not enough regulations. This is just another attempt to move the Overton Window over to the right.

Neoliberal: an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending
Overton Window: The Overton window is the range of subjects and arguments politically acceptable to the mainstream population at a given time

The Abundance Agenda: Neoliberalism’s Rebrand

The new centrist push to regain control of the Democratic Party, with corporate money

prospect.org

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Neoliberal: an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending

Soooo…a conservative.

 

[Moral]

Soooo…a conservative.

Yes, I like to call them libertarian lite.

 

[TarponSpringsNole]

I’d prefer a healthy dose of socialism. 👍

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

It's all just end game capitalism really....

 

[Ree4]

Who doesn't love abundance? That is the first hint that this movement falls in line with the consumer and expansion functions of neoliberalism. The next hint is that neoliberal mouth piece Ezra Klein is behind it. Turns out it is also billionaire backed by people such as the still alive Koch brother as well as other libertarians.

Stop falling for centristy sounding things. We already have enough unfettered capitalism, and not enough regulations. This is just another attempt to move the Overton Window over to the right.

Neoliberal: an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending
Overton Window: The Overton window is the range of subjects and arguments politically acceptable to the mainstream population at a given time

The Abundance Agenda: Neoliberalism’s Rebrand

The new centrist push to regain control of the Democratic Party, with corporate money

prospect.org

They lost to ****ing Trump twice and didn't learn anything. Tripling down, insanity.

 

[Sharky1203]

Who doesn't love abundance? That is the first hint that this movement falls in line with the consumer and expansion functions of neoliberalism. The next hint is that neoliberal mouth piece Ezra Klein is behind it. Turns out it is also billionaire backed by people such as the still alive Koch brother as well as other libertarians.

Stop falling for centristy sounding things. We already have enough unfettered capitalism, and not enough regulations. This is just another attempt to move the Overton Window over to the right.

Neoliberal: an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending
Overton Window: The Overton window is the range of subjects and arguments politically acceptable to the mainstream population at a given time

The Abundance Agenda: Neoliberalism’s Rebrand

The new centrist push to regain control of the Democratic Party, with corporate money

prospect.org

1980 Democratic Party Platform | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

 

[Colonoscopy]

Who doesn't love abundance? That is the first hint that this movement falls in line with the consumer and expansion functions of neoliberalism. The next hint is that neoliberal mouth piece Ezra Klein is behind it. Turns out it is also billionaire backed by people such as the still alive Koch brother as well as other libertarians.

Stop falling for centristy sounding things. We already have enough unfettered capitalism, and not enough regulations. This is just another attempt to move the Overton Window over to the right.

Neoliberal: an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending
Overton Window: The Overton window is the range of subjects and arguments politically acceptable to the mainstream population at a given time

The Abundance Agenda: Neoliberalism’s Rebrand

The new centrist push to regain control of the Democratic Party, with corporate money

prospect.org

I don't look at things that way. It's not regulations good or bad. It's good regulations good, bad regulations bad.

I don't think we have the proper set of regulations/constraints around capitalism in the US.

I wouldn't get caught up in intent; yeah the regulation meant to do well, yeah that bit of government spending meant to do well... but if it's effectively not working or problematic or could be much better, reevaluate and look for a better solution or configuration.

Societies, economies and their problems change over time.

 

[Moral]

1980 Democratic Party Platform | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

I'm not going to bother reading that. I just want you to know that.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

I am currently reading Klein’s book and don’t recognize anything like the Koch brothers brand of conservatism about it whatsoever. It has many liberal ideas throughout. Now is it progressive? Absolutely not.

The blowback on abundance is very weird. It seems like progressives would rather other sympathetic folks to the democratic cause (like me) have to abide by some weird purity test than come up with ideas that actually make government work for the people and solve real intractable issues.

I volunteer in inner city Chicago and from my vantage point the city has never had a good solution for the problems plaguing the inner city despite billions and billions of dollars spent and fairly progressive leadership post Daley. Maybe we need to ask ourselves if there is a better way.

 

[Moral]

I don't look at things that way. It's not regulations good or bad. It's good regulations good, bad regulations bad.

I don't think we have the proper set of regulations/constraints around capitalism in the US.

I wouldn't get caught up in intent; yeah the regulation meant to do well, yeah that bit of government spending meant to do well... but if it's effectively not working or problematic or could be much better, reevaluate and look for a better solution or configuration.

Societies, economies and their problems change over time.

I'm not black and white on regulations. However, when the abundance movement speaks about deregulating for business growth in 2025 then the context matters. Especially when PFAS just got deregulated for business. When the movement also has anti-regulation libertarians behind it then I feel okay saying I'm pro-regulation, but I do mean pro-worker and citizen health regulations.

Obviously capitalism is a bit too unconstrained at the moment. I really do like a socialist/capitalist blend with protections.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Neoliberal: an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending

That describes me to a degree, although I would say that Klein argues for smart regulation, not no regulation. I think most folks recognize some regulation is good and some really damages society.

You are not being exactly fair to Klein who in the book tears into neoliberal types who buy fancy homes/condos in the city and then block construction of affordable housing using the regulatory process.

 

[Sharky1203]

I'm not going to bother reading that. I just want you to know that.

Figures.

 

[BrunoMars420]

I just don’t understand how people that want more government done want effective and efficient government?

Progressives, let’s say you get Bernie’s agenda implemented. How do you propose on running the federal government with all the new regulatory processes that need to be put in place on top of the regulations you still don’t want to get rid of that is halting actual progress with our government?

 

[seminole97]

I'm not going to bother reading

Bitch, we know it’s not your thing.

 

[WDSMHAWK]

1980 Democratic Party Platform | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

1. That platform is going to be nearly 50 years old the next time we have a Presidential election. A lot has changed in the country and in the world since then.

2. The Democrats got crushed in the 1980 election. Why would we want our platform to be anything related to a historical landslide loss.

 

[Moral]

Figures.

It was a waste of time. I'm not talking about the 1980 Democrats regardless of their positions since the rise of neoliberalism dating back into the 70s.

Bitch, we know it’s not your thing.

I don't think most people read your shit to be fair. As a reminder I have you on ignore.

That describes me to a degree, although I would say that Klein argues for smart regulation, not no regulation. I think most folks recognize some regulation is good and some really damages society.

You are not being exactly fair to Klein who in the book tears into neoliberal types who buy fancy homes/condos in the city and then block construction of affordable housing using the regulatory process.

It's just a rebrand and in his book he will present it in a certain way. He isn't stupid and is a famed opinionist so that's his strong suit. I'm just very much not a neoliberal, we have been playing that game for decades and it lead to the rise of the alt-right and MAGA with the apathy created from being more into business and donor interest instead of working class interests.

I believe you have called yourself a classic liberal before which is actually another form of libertarian lite along with neoliberals and third way establishment type Democrats. I accept you for that. I just feel like the neoliberal philosophy from the right, left, and middle has lead to the lack of representation regular people have.

 

[Nole Lou]

Anyone that's against abundance is either:

1) Engaged in a rent-seeking role that stands to lose out (environmental groups or zoning review boards)
2) Degrowth advocates
3) Anti-capitalist

The arguments against it are frankly pathetic. They boil down to if you are in favor of abundance, you are against tearing down capitalism.

I get that it's painful for people who thought they were *this* close to the socialist workers revolution and ending private property in the early 2020s. I get how they had so much hope for COVID and Floyd riots ending the reign of capitalist pigs.

But it turns out it was a mirage. Anti-growth, anti-capitalist rhetoric is a non-starter with voters. Abundance is the way forward.

 

[Moral]

Anyone that's against abundance is either:

1) Engaged in a rent-seeking role that stands to lose out (environmental groups or zoning review boards)
2) Degrowth advocates
3) Anti-capitalist

The arguments against it are frankly pathetic. They boil down to if you are in favor of abundance, you are against tearing down capitalism.

I get that it's painful for people who thought they were *this* close to the socialist workers revolution and ending private property in the early 2020s. I get how they had so much hope for COVID and Floyd riots ending the reign of capitalist pigs.

But it turns out it was a mirage. Anti-growth, anti-capitalist rhetoric is a non-starter with voters. Abundance is the way forward.

See, libertarians.

"Abundance is the way forward" get a load of that.

 

[Nole Lou]

 

[Ree4]

I just don’t understand how people that want more government done want effective and efficient government?

Progressives, let’s say you get Bernie’s agenda implemented. How do you propose on running the federal government with all the new regulatory processes that need to be put in place on top of the regulations you still don’t want to get rid of that is halting actual progress with our government?

Do you have anything specific in mind? Overturning Citizens United? Passing universal healthcare and savings us ~$2 trillion over 10 years would easily pay for itself but wouldn't be without challenges of course.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

It was a waste of time. I'm not talking about the 1980 Democrats regardless of their positions since the rise of neoliberalism dating back into the 70s.



I don't think most people read your shit to be fair. As a reminder I have you on ignore.



It's just a rebrand and in his book he will present it in a certain way. He isn't stupid and is a famed opinionist so that's his strong suit. I'm just very much not a neoliberal, we have been playing that game for decades and it lead to the rise of the alt-right and MAGA with the apathy created from being more into business and donor interest instead of working class interests.

I believe you have called yourself a classic liberal before which is actually another form of libertarian lite along with neoliberals and third way establishment type Democrats. I accept you for that. I just feel like the neoliberal philosophy from the right, left, and middle has lead to the lack of representation regular people have.

Well said and appreciate your viewpoint. I’m only like 30% through Klein’s book so want to finish it before I opine on his views, but I will say that the case he is making so far is that we need government to actually be able to do stuff and not get blocked by well intentioned policies/regulations that prevent positive projects from happening efficiently. I see nothing wrong with that message. It is not a deregulation message, it is a “smarter regulation” message. I don’t think there is anything wrong with challenging why the current set of regulations (often state and local) don’t work. Everyone should support smart regulations that protect our environment, give a leg up for the disenfranchised, etc. The examples he has given so far show real unintended consequences of how the current regulations, many which originate in the 1970’s, can backfire and harm the very groups they are meant to help.

I will report back after I’m done with the book to give a full perspective on the pros and cons as I see it. I really respect your opinion so I hope you will at least hear me out when I do so.

 

[Sharky1203]

1. That platform is going to be nearly 50 years old the next time we have a Presidential election. A lot has changed in the country and in the world since then.

2. The Democrats got crushed in the 1980 election. Why would we want our platform to be anything related to a historical landslide loss.

The point is how far left the party has swung in 50 years.

 

[Nole Lou]

See, libertarians.

"Abundance is the way forward" get a load of that.

Sure, except all the abundance advocates on the left advocate for a robust and expanded social safety net, expanded medicaid or universal health care, etc. Total libertarians.

The true socialists that want to like make billionaires illegal, or execute landlords or whatever...they lost. It's over.

 

[Sharky1203]

It was a waste of time. I'm not talking about the 1980 Democrats regardless of their positions since the rise of neoliberalism dating back into the 70s.



I don't think most people read your shit to be fair. As a reminder I have you on ignore.



It's just a rebrand and in his book he will present it in a certain way. He isn't stupid and is a famed opinionist so that's his strong suit. I'm just very much not a neoliberal, we have been playing that game for decades and it lead to the rise of the alt-right and MAGA with the apathy created from being more into business and donor interest instead of working class interests.

I believe you have called yourself a classic liberal before which is actually another form of libertarian lite along with neoliberals and third way establishment type Democrats. I accept you for that. I just feel like the neoliberal philosophy from the right, left, and middle has lead to the lack of representation regular people have.

The point is how far left the party has swung in 50 years.

 

[Moral]

Do you have anything specific in mind? Overturning Citizens United? Passing universal healthcare and savings us ~$2 trillion over 10 years would easily pay for itself but wouldn't be without challenges of course.

He probably meant the agenda on its entirety. Which is a bar that has never been reached and would have you explain the intricacies of the change of an entire society and government.

I thought it was another case of sealioning or at least setting the stage for it.

Sealioning refers to the disingenuous action by a commenter of making an ostensible effort to engage in sincere and serious civil debate, usually by asking persistent questions of the other commenter.

smarter regulation

I'm such a damn cynic at this point that phrases like that scare me off. It's really hard to un-cynic nowadays for me.

 

[Ree4]

The point is how far left the party has swung in 50 years.

LOL. Swung so far left that they met Reaganomics on the right.

 

[Moral]

LOL. Swung so far left that they met Reaganomics on the right.

The Democrats are so far left that their crowning achievement in my lifetime is basically Mitt Romney's health insurance plan ala ACA.

 

[Ree4]

He probably meant the agenda on its entirety. Which is a bar that has never been reached and would have you explain the intricacies of the change of an entire society and government.

I thought it was another case of sealioning or at least setting the stage for it.

Sealioning refers to the disingenuous action by a commenter of making an ostensible effort to engage in sincere and serious civil debate, usually by asking persistent questions of the other commenter.




I'm such a damn cynic at this point that phrases like that scare me off. It's really hard to un-cynic nowadays for me.

I mean if he had specifics in mind I would attempt to address some but if he's looking for broad information on implementation I'm pretty sure Bernie spelled that all out on his campaign website and it's available online..

In our current system "Smart regulation" is as smart as the money behind it and the donors behind the politician implementing it. The profit motive has had devastating consequences across all industries over the last 50 years.

 

[Sharky1203]

LOL. Swung so far left that they met Reaganomics on the right.

Trickle down? Far from it.

 

[Ree4]

Trickle down? Far from it.

Explain the difference between neoliberalism and supply-side economics for me.

 

[BrunoMars420]

Do you have anything specific in mind? Overturning Citizens United? Passing universal healthcare and savings us ~$2 trillion over 10 years would easily pay for itself but wouldn't be without challenges of course.

I’ve said a million times I’m for overturning Citizens United. But you didn’t answer my question I originally posed, you just went straight for these talking points that “neoliberals” have been using and tactics they have been using. You say a big number on a big project and hand out a huge amount of money then you have nothing to show for it 5 to 10 to 20 years down the road the. You end up with the same type of inefficient type of government this is railing against.

So again:

Progressives, let’s say you get Bernie’s agenda implemented. How do you propose on running the federal government with all the new regulatory processes that need to be put in place on top of the regulations you still don’t want to get rid of that is halting actual progress with our government?

 

[Sharky1203]

Explain the difference between neoliberalism and supply-side economics for me.

Simple, Conservatives have been heavily in favor of supply-side economics. Neoliberalism is something that the left have pushed for years. Both are essentially the same but based more on capitalism or socialism.

 

[Ree4]

I’ve said a million times I’m for overturning Citizens United. But you didn’t answer my question I originally posed, you just went straight for these talking points that “neoliberals” have been using and tactics they have been using. You say a big number on a big project and hand out a huge amount of money then you have nothing to show for it 5 to 10 to 20 years down the road the. You end up with the same type of inefficient type of government this is railing against.

So again:

Progressives, let’s say you get Bernie’s agenda implemented. How do you propose on running the federal government with all the new regulatory processes that need to be put in place on top of the regulations you still don’t want to get rid of that is halting actual progress with our government?

Actually I was looking for something specific because I'm not going to spend hours responding to your question. With universal healthcare there's no handout, LOL. If you're looking for the answer, I'm sure Bernie and his team has that all written up from his 2020 campaign if you can use google.

 

[Ree4]

Simple, Conservatives have been heavily in favor of supply-side economics. Neoliberalism is something that the left have pushed for years. Both are essentially the same but based more on capitalism or socialism.

Wrong, it is the economic ideology of both parties for the last 40-50 years. One is just a teensy bit more "humane" than the other.

 

[BrunoMars420]

I mean if he had specifics in mind I would attempt to address some but if he's looking for broad information on implementation I'm pretty sure Bernie spelled that all out on his campaign website and it's available online..

In our current system "Smart regulation" is as smart as the money behind it and the donors behind the politician implementing it. The profit motive has had devastating consequences across all industries over the last 50 years.

I’ve read Bernie’s campaign website and his plans but it still doesn’t solve the core issue that is being presented by the Abundance theory and the arguments laid out by Ezra.

You can be general in your specifics as I’m not looking at the bones of each and every policy. To implement universal healthcare, (If I remember correctly, it would be like $40-$45 trillion over a decade.) how would the progressives use our current government to implement it to the masses and run it efficiently?

 

[BrunoMars420]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/02/opinion/democrats-liberalism.html

Here is the problem with the left and progressives idea of government. The good ole everything bagel Liberal.

 

[seminole97]

Anyone that's against abundance is either:

1) Engaged in a rent-seeking role that stands to lose out (environmental groups or zoning review boards)
2) Degrowth advocates
3) Anti-capitalist

The arguments against it are frankly pathetic. They boil down to if you are in favor of abundance, you are against tearing down capitalism.

I get that it's painful for people who thought they were *this* close to the socialist workers revolution and ending private property in the early 2020s. I get how they had so much hope for COVID and Floyd riots ending the reign of capitalist pigs.

But it turns out it was a mirage. Anti-growth, anti-capitalist rhetoric is a non-starter with voters. Abundance is the way forward.

 

[ISUBryce]

I am currently reading Klein’s book and don’t recognize anything like the Koch brothers brand of conservatism about it whatsoever. It has many liberal ideas throughout. Now is it progressive? Absolutely not.

The blowback on abundance is very weird. It seems like progressives would rather other sympathetic folks to the democratic cause (like me) have to abide by some weird purity test than come up with ideas that actually make government work for the people and solve real intractable issues.

I volunteer in inner city Chicago and from my vantage point the city has never had a good solution for the problems plaguing the inner city despite billions and billions of dollars spent and fairly progressive leadership post Daley. Maybe we need to ask ourselves if there is a better way.

Agreed. I don’t understand it at all.

 

[ISUBryce]

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Scream it from the mountaintops.