Alternate Ending to Pitt Game

[markfromj]

Got wondering what the rules were for essentially goaltending at the crossbar (certainly a possibility with a 57 yarder). Maybe well known, but, assume Koehn's kick to make it just barely over crossbar:

1) Boyd leaps, bats it out of bounds: Iowa awarded a safety
2) Boyd leaps, bats it into endzone, and falls on it or otherwise touches it: Iowa awarded safety
3) Boyd leaps, bats it into endzone, Iowa falls on it: Iowa awarded touchdown
4) Boyd leaps, catches it above the cross bar: Legal: Boyd can advance

4) is tough, but not impossible. Wow, would that suck.

 

[Hawkeyes4Life247]

Got wondering what the rules were for essentially goaltending at the crossbar (certainly a possibility with a 57 yarder). Maybe well known, but, assume Koehn's kick to make it just barely over crossbar:

1) Boyd leaps, bats it out of bounds: Iowa awarded a safety
2) Boyd leaps, bats it into endzone, and falls on it or otherwise touches it: Iowa awarded safety
3) Boyd leaps, bats it into endzone, Iowa falls on it: Iowa awarded touchdown
4) Boyd leaps, catches it above the cross bar: Legal: Boyd can advance

4) is tough, but not impossible. Wow, would that suck.

I don't think #1 is a safety because he never would have possession of the ball. Would simply be a blocked FG.

#2 I'm almost certain would be a touchback off a blocked FG.

 

[ABYPFCS]

Correct 1 & 2 would not be safeties.

 

[Hawktagonapus]

No, #1&2 are safeties for penalty in the endzone: illegal batting. #3 is also a penalty, but you'd decline it because you scored a touchdown.
http://smartfootball.com/grab-bag/goaltending-for-football#sthash.xWi2zFnB.dpbs

 

[ABYPFCS]

No, #1&2 are safeties for penalty in the endzone: illegal batting. #3 is also a penalty, but you'd decline it because you scored a touchdown.
http://smartfootball.com/grab-bag/goaltending-for-football#sthash.xWi2zFnB.dpbs

Actually, batting the ball in this instance would not incur a penalty. Same with batting a pass while blocking it, or batting a ball while blocking a punt.

 

[Birky]

I have to admit, I had no idea this could be done.

 

[Hawktagonapus]

Actually, batting the ball in this instance would not incur a penalty. Same with batting a pass while blocking it, or batting a ball while blocking a punt.

Sorry, but you are wrong. It's a penalty. From this years NCAA rulebook:

SECTION 4. Batting and Kicking Batting a Loose Ball—ARTICLE 1 Approved Ruling 9-4-1
I. Team A attempts a field goal from Team B’s 30-yard line. A Team B player in the end zone leaps above the crossbar and bats the ball in flight. The ball goes into the end zone and is recovered by Team A. RULING: Foul for batting the ball in the end zone. The result of the play is a touchdown.
II. Team A attempts a field goal from Team B’s 30-yard line. A Team B player in the end zone leaps above the crossbar and bats the ball in flight. The ball goes into the end zone and is recovered by Team B. RULING: Foul for batting the ball in the end zone. The result of the play is a touchback. Safety if penalty is accepted.
III. Team A attempts a field goal from Team B’s 30-yard line. A Team B player in the end zone leaps above the crossbar and bats the ball in flight. The ball goes into the field of play. RULING: Foul for batting the ball in the end zone. During regulation play, postscrimmage kick enforcement gives a safety by penalty. The ball remains alive, and Team A may elect the result of the play.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR15.pdf

 

[Pepperman]

So could he "catch" it? What if he bats it to himself?

 

[WildTurk]

What is the OP smoking?

 

[Hawktagonapus]

So could he "catch" it? What if he bats it to himself?

Yes, you can catch it. I guess its a judgement call whether the referee decides you were trying to catch the ball or illegally batting it.

VI. Team A attempts a field goal, and B23, in the end zone, goes above the crossbar and catches the ball. RULING: Legal play

 

[denmar81]

so the result is a safety if the blocking team recovers. If up by 3 then giving up 2 at the end of a game would result in a win?

 

[ABYPFCS]

I found this on page 204 and you are correct, if when blocking the kick it was determined that he batted the ball. Jumping up and simply knocking it down, I don't think it would or should get interpreted as batting the ball.

 

[Hawktagonapus]

I found this on page 204 and you are correct, if when blocking the kick it was determined that he batted the ball. Jumping up and simply knocking it down, I don't think it would or should get interpreted as batting the ball.

I think the rule was very clearly written to stop you from jumping up and knocking the ball down as it goes near the posts. It's not considered the same as blocking it at or behind the line of scrimmage.

 

[leiserom]

Rules casebooks(a companion book to the actual rule book) can be interesting to read. We just got our HS BB rulebooks and casebooks last week. A guy who passed earlier year who I knew who was a BB rules guru could quote plays left and right. Even Sid Borgia NBA VP of officiating wouldnt challenge his knowledge. And the guy who died although only a HS official was only an NBA arena observer. He knew the HS rules very well also.

 

[El Simbolo]

So you really can goaltend a field goal? If so, I think you would also run the risk of accidentally tipping a slightly short kick over the goalpost. Especially since you couldn't jump forward toward the kick without stepping out of bounds first

 

[El Simbolo]

I honestly thought this was going to be a thread about how Pittsburgh hypothetically really did miss that last extra point, but then onside kicked and hit winning FG

 

[markfromj]

So could he "catch" it? What if he bats it to himself?

Yes, he can catch it (even over the bar and between the uprights) and indeed advance it.

Batting to himself, though, appears to be prohibited, with the kicking team awarded a safety.

 

[markfromj]

What is the OP smoking?

Sadly, nothing. But I think my OP here has been proven by others to be correct, so why are you asking this?

 

[markfromj]

so the result is a safety if the blocking team recovers. If up by 3 then giving up 2 at the end of a game would result in a win?

Yup. I do believe so.

 

[ABYPFCS]

I think the rule was very clearly written to stop you from jumping up and knocking the ball down as it goes near the posts. It's not considered the same as blocking it at or behind the line of scrimmage.

Very interesting, and if so, I would be willing to bet that few coaches are aware of this, as I watch a lot of football and never seen it called.

Of course, I don't know if I have ever seen a player do it either. With that, not sure why the rule is necessary.

 

[whatsup12579er]

Wow, I learned something. That doesn't happen often on HR!

 

[theIowaHawk]

Can he climb the goalpost to do so?

 

[markfromj]

Can he climb the goalpost to do so?

Highly doubt it plus he would be out of bounds.

 

[DBQ Hawk]

Baltimore Colts receiver RC Owens did block a field goal at the crossbar in an NFL game in about 1960, and after that the NFL made that play illegal. Don't know about college, but I'd bet the rule would be interpreted the same: illegal touching is my guess.

I was actually thinking about that when Koehn lined up to kick it, knowing how good Boyd was.

 

[DBQ Hawk]

Interesting reading on the subject, with a pic of RC Owens blocking that kick in 1962:
http://quirkyresearch.blogspot.com/2009/12/blogging-nfl-rule-book-palpably-unfair.html
http://quirkyresearch.blogspot.com/2009/12/blogging-nfl-rule-book-palpably-unfair.html:

 

[Hawk and Awe]

No, no, no. This is not legal. IF its legal every current coach should be fired for not using a roster spot on a guy that could do this.

I knew it was illegal in the NFL as posted earlier, but not sure on college (other than it would be riddiculous to be legal)

 

[theiacowtipper]

Yup. I do believe so.

This is an interesting take that I hadn't thought of. No reason to not attempt this kind of block when up three.

 

[markfromj]

No, no, no. This is not legal. IF its legal every current coach should be fired for not using a roster spot on a guy that could do this.

Catching it is indeed legal (not batting it). But keep in mind that, to do this, you are sacrificing a potential line-of-scrimmage kick blocker, and instead hoping that the kick is to just barely clear the crossbar, your guy can get up there, and either catch it or that you can afford the safety by batting it. It is a pretty low-odds move.