Are we in Putin's camp?
- Thread starter jonesy5960
- Start date
We are for sure in Putin’s camp.
We are not the good guys in WWIII
We are not the good guys in WWIII
It's always amusing when the less stupid 'conservative' posters try to rationalize Trump's actions by guessing why he's doing something that he's doing. It never seems to occur to them that it shouldn't have to be a guessing game. Things like principles, outlined strategic goals, an understood vision or ethos. You know, something politicians used to run on.
Cultists blindly follow, so I'll give credit to rifler & Lucious for at least trying to make sense of their devotion.
Cultists blindly follow, so I'll give credit to rifler & Lucious for at least trying to make sense of their devotion.
EU sent more money to Russia for oil and gas than they sent to Ukraine last year (and an increase over what they sent in 2023).
It’s a very weird war.
Our right wing has chosen fascism over democracy. To say otherwise is an out and out lie. But then, they won't stop lying until the stop breathing, if you catch my drift.
I did answer your question, and I never suggested that we needed Russia as a bulwark against China, I said that the west needs Russia under it's "sphere of influence",.. In other words we need Russia to not be China's tag team partner.
Why? What happens if Russia and China are tag team partners? Do you think Russia would invade its neighbors if it had a tag team partner?
Sometimes I forget how stupid you are. But you're always nice enough to remind us.
do you think putin prefers having to take shelter under xi’s skirt and hobnob with the likes of iran or collaborate with the civilized world? he’ll play ball and there will be some concessions from him in exchange.
correct me if i’m wrong but it continues in the present as well i believe. why this isn’t discussed nor has bothered nobody here is puzzling
I think Trump fears the consequences of losing the dollar as the reserve currency and what that means for the USA. He also fears the effects of us pushing Russia closer to China.
Putin has claimed he doesn't want to stop using the dollar, but he has been forced to find a new currency because the usa won't allow him to use dollars. Take it for what his word is worth,but he does have a point.
If the brics is successful and is tied to gold, it is possible this could hurt the dollar quite a bit.
Trump also doesn't see Putin as the evil dictator many of you do. He thinks there is room to negotiate with putin and putin will hold up his end of the deal.
On the flip side, Zelensky is demanding more and more weapons and money so they can keep the war going. Z is not necessarily motivated to make a deal because as long as he is at war, he can stay in power. Even if you support Zelensky, it is reasonable to claim you don't have a real democracy if you don't hold elections.
Putin has claimed he doesn't want to stop using the dollar, but he has been forced to find a new currency because the usa won't allow him to use dollars. Take it for what his word is worth,but he does have a point.
If the brics is successful and is tied to gold, it is possible this could hurt the dollar quite a bit.
Trump also doesn't see Putin as the evil dictator many of you do. He thinks there is room to negotiate with putin and putin will hold up his end of the deal.
On the flip side, Zelensky is demanding more and more weapons and money so they can keep the war going. Z is not necessarily motivated to make a deal because as long as he is at war, he can stay in power. Even if you support Zelensky, it is reasonable to claim you don't have a real democracy if you don't hold elections.
So back to the original question. It seems you agree then that we are in Putin's camp and that's a good thing.
i feel like we should be in america’s camp. i give zero shits for putin and i think you know it. interpretations of inching into putin’s camp etc will have to be developed based on details of the actual deal.
I think this is where we differ. You don't see a problem with ditching relationships that have been developed over the course of the last 80 years in deference to a lying despicable despot who's philosophy runs contrary to everything we've ever embraced as a nation. Trump and people like you view all of these things transactionally with no moral compass or consideration of long term damage. The world's alliances don't operate like that. What's going on in Ukraine and with these trade wars has huge future implications for the U.S. and the world going forward. The United States became the most powerful and wealthy nation in history under the current world order. I'm concerned that this order is being completely overturned before our very eyes and too many people see it as no big deal.
Trump may be a lot of things but a deep thinker isn't one of them. He's got to be the easiest President in history to influence. All you have to do is compliment him and he'll give you whatever you want. Also, he's biggest humiliation in life was losing the 2020 election to Biden. So his natural reaction is to demolish anything Biden ever did. He doesn't care about anything other than making Biden look bad. Trump is as terrible a person as he was at selling steaks. Modern society does not like to admit their wrong about anything. But if Trump ultimately sides with Russia, Trump and his cronies will not only be run out of the White House but also the country.
for 3 years we've done it exactly per desires of the current world order as you put it. open american checkbook, closed european checkbook, open ukranian lives checkbook. the results are apparent but many like you think the way forward is to continue this under the pretext that russian armor and population gets decimated. of course there is zero concern for disappearance of the ukranian population because its their choice nor is there concern for american fiscal strengths. do you think this war will be won the way it has been prosecuted for the last 3 years? i can certainly agree there was a moral compass when this endeavor began but you can claim zero moral compass if you want to continue the same campaign after 3 years of lost lives.
also saving european/ukranian lives, getting russia out of the chinese orbit, and keeping our powder dry while isolating china is a fantastic and requisite long-term strategy for american power and wealth. i say this after witnessing the shit show of the last 3 years -- certainly that's possible only with hindsight, so there is no pointing of fingers intended to the previous decision making.
This is nonsense. Nothing we are doing is saving lives. In fact, moves by the administration over the last few days and weeks are directly costing Ukrainian lives and granting more territory to Russia at the cost of those lives. It never had to end this way with completely sacrificing Ukrainian lives and interests, but this administration has shown they are not only abandoning Ukraine but embracing Putin and Russia.
China? We're giving China the green light on Taiwan. Russia is fine with that and they're likely to expand further eastward and south because there is nothing to discourage Putin now.
I'm wondering when Trump is gonna start throwing reporters and Democrat politicians in jail and start acting like a real dictator the left says he is?
Didn't EU country members like Germany laugh at Trump during his speech to the UN when he said they'd become dependent on Russian energy?
yes it's shocking heating your home in many countries costs more than a war in one.
That’s your takeaway?
Not that EU countries sent more money to Russia than Ukraine last year, but some non sequitur about home heating costs?
JFC.
