Are you (finally?) sold on the Greg Davis offense?

[terrehawk]

Stanzi.
Tate.
Banks.
Hartlieb.
Long.

And that is only going back to Hayden.

Stanzi.
Tate.
Banks.
Hartlieb.
Long.

And that is only going back to Hayden.

My post:

"He (Davis) has arguably the best quarterback in the history of Iowa football."

Virtually every single person coevering iowa Hawkeye football has said the same thing. Including Chuck Long.

I realize this is you in every single thread:

But you're a moron

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

He is a much better coach than most people would like to admit, but he was terrible in 2012. He took a moderately successful quarterback in Vandenberg and turned him into a pumpkin. He has done well since then, but that year was a disaster.

There were a number of factors that conspired against the 2012 offense. Vandenberg was a scapegoat to many fans ... but he was far from turned into a pumpkin. Of course, that is not to say that Davis was devoid of blame.

There are a laundry list of issues that undercut the '12 O, here is but a sampling of them:

- Greg Davis still was learning how to make use of the type of personnel he had at Iowa. There likely WAS a bit of transition for him in this regard.

- Language issues pervaded the coaching staff - older people typically take longer to learn new things than younger people. This was especially tough on the players ... because it's the coaching staff who was responsible for TEACHING them the new lingo. Vandenberg suffered because he likely was the ONLY one who was on the same page as Davis. All the other position groups were taught by "Ferentzians" ... who were all new to Davis's lingo.

- Coach Campbell was especially bad at teaching the WRs what Greg wanted him to. This is arguably the biggest reason why Vandenberg's development seemed to go backwards. The WRs were rarely on the same page as the QB. That's obviously a bad thing! Not surprisingly, Campbell was let go after that season and Kennedy was brought in.

- Davis's offensive schemes still needed to get adapted to accommodate what Iowa likes to do in the running game. Thus, the O was still a little disjoint between the passing game and running game. Given that the passing and running games must feed off each-other ... for instance, sometimes you want the D to read their keys and think "pass" ... even though you intend to run on them. Thus, the offensive schemes and blocking must reflect that ... and the passing and running games must be compatible with each-other. In 2012, this was NOT yet the case. Not surprisingly, Brian Ferentz was upgraded to running-game coordinator in order to help facilitate making the passing and running games more compatible.

- There were also the more obvious personnel issues too ... we were starting a fullback at RB.

 

[ichawk24]

Vandenberg was a scapegoat to many fans ... but he was far from turned into a pumpkin.

His ypa dropped from 7.5 to 5.8, despite his completion ptg only dropping from 58.7 to 57.3. He was no longer allowed to make the throws that he was successful with as a junior.

I understand there were many factors, but I stand by my claim that Davis had a terrible year of coaching. Bringing Kennedy in the following year did seem to make a big difference in the operation of the offense.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/james-vandenberg-1.html

 

[theIowaHawk]

My post:

"He (Davis) has arguably the best quarterback in the history of Iowa football."

Virtually every single person coevering iowa Hawkeye football has said the same thing. Including Chuck Long.

I realize this is you in every single thread:

View embedded media

But you're a moron

So he is "arguably" better than all of those quarterbacks, because you are arguing that? Or because the current qb is getting lauded by ex-players, coaches and media like most qbs before him?

Let's try it this way: Do you, terrehawk, believe he is better than every one of those QBs?

 

[terrehawk]

So he is "arguably" better than all of those quarterbacks, because you are arguing that? Or because the current qb is getting lauded by ex-players, coaches and media like most qbs before him?

Let's try it this way: Do you, terrehawk, believe he is better than every one of those QBs?

Jesus Christ you are a dope.

Yes, CJB is arguably as good or better than any QB ever to play at Iowa.

You are pretty thick.

This is theIowaHawk

 

[theIowaHawk]

Yes, CJB is arguably as good or better than any QB ever to play at Iowa.

Ok then.

I'm excited for minimum Heisman runner-up (twice), a Heisman winner, or at least a top-3 pick in the draft (x2).

Now I'm really, really pumped for tomorrow! Thanks terry.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

His ypa dropped from 7.5 to 5.8, despite his completion ptg only dropping from 58.7 to 57.3. He was no longer allowed to make the throws that he was successful with as a junior.

I understand there were many factors, but I stand by my claim that Davis had a terrible year of coaching. Bringing Kennedy in the following year did seem to make a big difference in the operation of the offense.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/james-vandenberg-1.html

Typically going from a JR season to a SR season, you'd expect an increased completion percentage AND an increased yardage per completion. We obviously didn't see that.

My question is this - are you trying to find causal connections between what changed ... and I'm talking about DETAILS here ... versus the outcomes that rightly noted?

As I stated previously, Davis contributed to some of the problems. However, the fault ultimately related to the overall execution of the O. Why did the O execute more poorly in 2012?

- If WRs aren't where you expect them to be ... there are going to be passes that appear to be complete misses. That happened A LOT in 2012. That is on the fact that the QB and WRs weren't on the same page. A big part of that is due to the fact that WRs weren't being taught Davis's offense correctly (from Campbell).

- Vandenberg went from being a pretty confident seeming QB to one that ultimately seemed like he felt both real and phantom pressure in the pocket. Part of that is attributable to the following DETAILED factors ....
* Opposing Ds could probably read the O too easily because the passing and running games weren't yet compatible. At least after the early games of the season when there was more available tape on the O.
* The OL suffered big injuries to Scherff and Donnal ... both in the game against PSU if memory serves. We weren't terribly veteran on that OL either.
* Even Weisman's power running took a turn for the worse after he dinged his ankle in our victory over Michigan State.

The aforementioned factors led opposing Ds to crowd the line of scrimmage and dare Iowa to beat them with the passing game. Given the issues with the QB and WRs not being on the same page ... that wasn't going to happen. The result was a lot more pass rush felt by Vandenberg ... and that led to even poorer performance.

 

[terrehawk]

Ok then.

I'm excited for minimum Heisman runner-up (twice), a Heisman winner, or at least a top-3 pick in the draft (x2).

Now I'm really, really pumped for tomorrow! Thanks terry.

If you don't believe CJ beathard is arguably one of the best quarterbacks to ever play at Iowa then you really have no business even speaking right now

 

[HawkLogic]

The same definitely could be said about his time at Texas. His offenses were 20 times better with an elite QB. Then it gets into a debate about whether those QBs were elite because of his system or if they were studs that would perform extremely well in almost any system.

Vandenberg certainly wasn't elite QB.
Weisman was not an elite RB. That summarizes the 1st couple years.

I think Davis stepped up the offensive recruiting. Getting Wadley, Tevaun Smith, opening a pipeline to Texas. We got more speed on offense. Give Brian Ferentz some credit for getting KF to open some things up. I think the offense is working now. You are always only going to be as good as you recruit. Recruiting seems better.

 

[El Simbolo]

Outside 1 series a game he does a decent job. For some reason though when we are gashing a D by the run he decides to dial up 3 straight pass plays and we go 3 and out.

It seemed like we knew the game wa in hand at that point and decided to practice a passing package

 

[HawkLogic]

He is a much better coach than most people would like to admit, but he was terrible in 2012. He took a moderately successful quarterback in Vandenberg and turned him into a pumpkin. He has done well since then, but that year was a disaster.

NO, vandy was not good. He'd never tried a back shoulder throw in his life until Davis arrived. Vandy's Jr year was not as good as his stats suggested. He feasted on Indiana, but was absolute bust vs all the good defenses. No McNutt, weisman as featured RB, offense sucked. Vandy should have been benched and Rudock would have been upgrade.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Vandenberg certainly wasn't elite QB.
Weisman was not an elite RB. That summarizes the 1st couple years.

I think Davis stepped up the offensive recruiting. Getting Wadley, Tevaun Smith, opening a pipeline to Texas. We got more speed on offense. Give Brian Ferentz some credit for getting KF to open some things up. I think the offense is working now. You are always only going to be as good as you recruit. Recruiting seems better.

It also helps that the coaches in the offensive room now all speak the same language. That is conducive to teaching toward the same objective.

Furthermore, as Kirk has stated several times, the coaching staff previously was still in a bit of a transient state back then. Now the group has reached an equilibrium ... and that likely indicates that they're interacting well together, they're sharing the same vision, and they're understanding each-other better. When things are meshing better ... that is to the benefit of every one.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

NO, vandy was not good. He'd never tried a back shoulder throw in his life until Davis arrived. Vandy's Jr year was not as good as his stats suggested. He feasted on Indiana, but was absolute bust vs all the good defenses. No McNutt, weisman as featured RB, offense sucked. Vandy should have been benched and Rudock would have been upgrade.

I respectfully disagree. The situation that the Iowa O found itself in 2012 was a complete mess. It would have hurt ANY QBs development that year. Giving Rudock reps in '12 would likely have set his development behind too. Just look at what the '07 season did to Christensen's development.

 

[ichawk24]

Vandy's Jr year was not as good as his stats suggested. He feasted on Indiana, but was absolute bust vs all the good defenses.

Like when he went 14 of 21 for 171, 1 TD, 0 INT in winning 24-16 against 11-2 Michigan?

Every QB faces good and bad defenses. Vandenberg was 45th in the country in YPA and 41st in rating.

Then it all went South his senior year.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Like when he went 14 of 21 for 171, 1 TD, 0 INT in winning 24-16 against 11-2 Michigan?

Every QB faces good and bad defenses. Vandenberg was 45th in the country in YPA and 41st in rating.

Then it all went South his senior year.

He also almost led the Hawks to a victory over Ohio State in 2009, when Stanzi was out with injury. Weren't we something like a Trey Stross drop from winning that game? (or a single stop of Terrell Pryor from winning)

 

[ichawk24]

Trey Stross dropped a first half TD in 2009. You can't say that would have given Iowa a victory but it would have helped.

2010 in Kinnick was when we had them 4th and 10 late in the game and Pryor scrambled for the first down on their way to the go-ahead score.

 

[fifteenandoh]

just for the record... Greg Davis and the Texas Longhorns beat Terrelle Pryor and the Ohio State Buckeyes in the 2009 Fiesta Bowl.

 

[Buffhawk]

The whole deal with Greg Davis, was when he came on board, he was new, brought a new look. I would have been surprised if in his first year, he would have rocked Hawkeye nation. Now that he is getting the kids who have what he is looking for, the improvements are definitely noticeable. Does not hurt to have CJ at the helm as well! Good luck Hawks tomorrow as we kick us some Bison.

Bison jerky is pretty good eats!

 

[ScoutRefugee]

For one thing, he quit throwing that quick sideline throw to the WR that got 1 or 2 yards on 1st down. The play you call when your skill position athletes are just flat out better than most of the other team's players. Like he had at Texas. You know, the kind of WR that has never graced a KF offense? We saw a steady diet of that his first year. We don't have the kind of offense that can easily recover from a wasted 1st down.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

Doesn't matter OC is most scrutinized always. I will say we have 7 damn good recruits coming from lone star state next year because of he and Kennedy connections. So he's all good in my eyes. Oh yeah and not to mention we just won school record 12 games last year and I can't remember our last loss at kinnick or in regular season....so everything is cool with me

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

cost of the transition was 2012

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

If you don't believe CJ beathard is arguably one of the best quarterbacks to ever play at Iowa then you really have no business even speaking right now

If you use the term "arguably" you can say a lot of different things.....that's a pretty weak stance in reality. If he has and the team has the season I think they will then I would say he would be 1 or 2 best. Long put up some #'s but I think CJB could go down as a better QB. Long is like Marino BC he can fill the stats sheet, CJB is like Montana....just has that "it" factor.....I'd take Joe Cool over Marino any day

 

[hwk23]

If you use the term "arguably" you can say a lot of different things.....that's a pretty weak stance in reality. If he has and the team has the season I think they will then I would say he would be 1 or 2 best. Long put up some #'s but I think CJB could go down as a better QB. Long is like Marino BC he can fill the stats sheet, CJB is like Montana....just has that "it" factor.....I'd take Joe Cool over Marino any day

I'd say Chuck Long had a lot of "it" factor, oodles. He had a lot of game winning drives... always felt like we had a chance with him at QB. CJ and this backfield are potentially right up there though, imo.

 

[Buffhawk]

Doesn't matter OC is most scrutinized always. I will say we have 7 damn good recruits coming from lone star state next year because of he and Kennedy connections. So he's all good in my eyes. Oh yeah and not to mention we just won school record 12 games last year and I can't remember our last loss at kinnick or in regular season....so everything is cool with me

Not only that, but if we continue to do well, it can only open that Texas pipeline a little more!

 

[24 so far]

Whatever the reason, it's hard to argue with the production. CJ might be the best quarterback Iowa has had in Kirk's tenure too so that certainly helps. Obviously a strong argument could be made that Banks was better but if CJ continues to play as he has this year and matches last year's numbers I think it would be hard to argue that he wasn't the best.

I've been wrong before, which is why I'm not an NFL scout, but CJ seems to have a lot of the tools you'd want to see in the NFL for quarterback as well.

For sure he does.

In regards to Greg Davis, Kirk Ferentz, etc., (not Iowa specific by an means) it's pretty simple. It's the Jimmy's and Joe's, not the X's and O's. Always has been, always will be. Every Coach on the planet gets better as his Jimmy's and Joe's get better.

Right now C.J. is our Main Jimmy and Akrum Wadley is our Main Joe. Those 2 alone would make any Coach look better. Put them on any of Iowa's opponents and our chances of losing go up considerably.

Those who recruit the best will remain the best Coaches. It may not be that simple, but it's damn close.

 

[Hawks_Rock_12]

from 2001 to 2009 Greg Davis won 10+ games every year....
since he left Texas, Texas has stunk... he's why they were good.... and he's why they ain't good now....
he's also a big reason why we won 12 games last season...
that old boy knows how to run an offense.

he's arguably the best in the business.

It's always dumb posters like you who make themselves look stupid lol

 

[hansenhawk]

No

 

[TRHawkeye145]

No

Funny...I was about to say the same thing. Never thought Davis was a good hire. He is OK but there are too many head scratching moments

 

[fourteenandone]

It's always dumb posters like you who make themselves look stupid lol

today is the day for Hawkeye haters to celebrate.... congratulations

 

[Hawks_Rock_12]

today is the day for Hawkeye haters to celebrate.... congratulations

You think I'm happy the Hawks lost ? I just can't stand fans like yourself who talk a bunch of shit !

 

[fourteenandone]

You think I'm happy the Hawks lost ? I just can't stand fans like yourself who talk a bunch of shit !

then that makes you a hypocrite.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

"CJ might be the best quarterback Iowa has had in Kirk's tenure"

not even close.


banks, stanzi, chandler, tate