B12 - little, indebted, and parasitic on current students

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

We know and have discussed at length how Pollard ran up big debts and was a social media troll all these years. (Borrowed $60M for $80M in stadium upgrades, compared to only $30M Iowa borrowed for almost $165M in facility upgrades, and Iowa is in the top five in the B10 for revenues, and 14th in the nation, as per the WSJ).

That flimflam only lasts so long. Sooner or later, reality hits hard, and it did nine days ago when the hype met the Hawkeyes, and a huge national audience saw Iowa State for what they were, aspirational flashes in the pan.

Time to look at the schools joining the B12. It's so much worse than I knew. I thought the debate was over, but the issue is deeper than I thought because these programs are funding up to half of their athletic budgets from mandatory student fees. That practice must stop.


Current students shouldn't be forced to pay (or take out loans to pay) for the scholarships of athletes in unsustainable programs like UCF, Cinci, Houston, BYU, and worse, for six figure salaries of AD administrators and seven figure salaries for coaches. It’s a major scandal that it happens at all.



Cincinnati will come crashing down too once they lose their coach and once they will be forced to cut budgets to repay their over $300,000,000 in athletic department debt. But this is now known on these boards, though probably not on Cyclone Fanatic. Soon the national media will begin to dig a bit and see beneath the hype and into the dollars and sense reality, and I meant that literally. The honest AD's like Goff at Kansas do see reality: this new b12 is a "poor" conference with zero chance of living large off of the big budget schools who have left, or living on borrowed time and $60M in debt (ISU), or $300M in debt (cinci).

According to articles published in the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Cleveland Plain Dealer, current UC students are subsidizing the athletic department over $4,000 per year. While athletic department spending was increased over the last 13 years, needed facility upgrades for academic buildings was slashed, funding on instruction was cut by almost 7%, and spending on research was cut by 26%, while athletic department spending went through the roof. Kinda puts into perspective the price students are being made to pay for their current ranking in FB, and the cost in unbearable debt for all future faculty, students, staff, and families. UC is a time bomb of debt waiting to implode.


UCF

UCF's "growth" has come at the expense of tuition and fees. Athletic departments that live parasitically off of current students, as well as run up debts, which is what small D-1 schools do, and which UCF does, are not sustainable. UCF charges almost $200 in fees for full-time students - $15 per credit hour - in MANDATORY fees to students who are already swimming in student loans anyway. It's a scandal on campus, and this is what Pollard and Clone fanatics tell us is a "big" program that can bring "big" growth in the future, when they've done it by feeding vampirically off of current students and their futures by running up their debts? UCF ran up a $12M deficit last year, 40% of their annual budget, and had to borrow $4M in emergency loans from its UCF foundation to cover expenses. a program which only generates $29M annually, much of which is from mandatory student fees. Almost THIRTEEN MILLION DOLLARS from UCF's "athletic department revenues" are generated from mandatory student fees charged to the 65,000 students. That's almost half their budget. Pathetic and vampiric.


Houston is the same. Here is an article from before Covid - which made things MUCH worse for them - that describes how UH has fed off of existing students to support their AD budget, forcing students to pay mandatory fees on top of tuition, room and board. Despicable.

"As of 2017, Houston had over $117,000,000 in debt for its athletic department"

"UH relies on student fees to support its athletic department, and as of 2017, received $25.7 million in student fees for its budget"

(By the way, Iowa charges students zero dollars in student fees for the athletics department because Iowa's revenues are more than enough to cover nationally-ranked programs like Women's Basketball, Wrestling, Field Hockey (ranked #1), Rowing (consistently top 20), and a football program that's doing pretty well right now.

The new B12 is not just little, it's parasitic on current students, and it's built on debt.


BYU is its own animal, a small program in the middle of nowhere that doesn't fit with any conference. BYU charges radically different fees for Mormon students as non-Mormons, who pay twice as much. Imagine the scandal if Notre Dame or Georgetown or Loyola or Boston College or Villanova charged non-Catholics twice as much? Schools like ND, in reality, rely on their huge endowment. ND's endowment is over $12 Billion. ND meets "100% of demonstrated student need" and is provided regardless of religion, race, gender, or identity. Seems like BYU actively discriminates. Ridiculous. I had no idea. Plus BYU ran up over $20M in debt last year and was seeking donations, but there is no information about whether they are even close to being in the black. Maybe they hope joining a "poor" conference like the new B12 will help?

So let's do some math on a few relevant schools

DEBT
ISU - $60M
UC - $300M
BYU - $20M
Houston - $120M
UCF - $12M

Over half a billion in debt just from these schools, most of which are feeding off of current students to keep the lights on and pay interest on their ballooning debt.

And we are supposed to be impressed?

 

[Gonzo Bloor]

I don't think too many are impressed. It's obvious that if this is the actual Big 12 in five years they won't be a P4 conference.

 

[Hawklad24]

I'm not sure it's fair to compare ISU yet to the situations of their new conference mates.

They recognize debt service in their annual budget. They very well could apply their one time Texas OU settlement (if it happens) towards repayment.

We do know that they ran a ($20 million) deficit last year. Ours was much worse ($45+ million) , which makes sense given the B1G handling of covid and our opponents at year end when we finally found relevancy.

However, Iowa is well positioned to absorb that deficit. B1G money is soon skyrocketing again. Ticket sales strong. Competitively, we've done everything we can to make up for it.

Im not sure how ISU absorbs that loss. Their strategy has been dependent on growth, and now it will be forced to shrink. I'd be interested to see their balance sheet. It's the non renevue sports that will pay for ISUs AD and the BOR overplaying it's hand.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

You’re right. I just had no idea that those already meager athletic department revenues are being pumped up so significantly with mandatory student fees, and that’s on top of the debt they’re running up.

making students pay is just spreading the debt around and calling it revenue. Reminds me of Wall Street circa 2006 and 2007.

NO student on ANY campus should be forced to subsidize in fees and through student loans the budgets of athletic departments. And any school that allows that should not be P4 or compete in playoffs, much less participate in NCAA d-1 athletics at all.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

I'm not sure it's fair to compare ISU yet to the situations of their new conference mates.

They recognize debt service in their annual budget. They very well could apply their one time Texas OU settlement (if it happens) towards repayment.

We do know that they ran a ($20 million) deficit last year. Ours was much worse ($45+ million) , which makes sense given the B1G handling of covid and our opponents at year end when we finally found relevancy.

However, Iowa is well positioned to absorb that deficit. B1G money is soon skyrocketing again. Ticket sales strong. Competitively, we've done everything we can to make up for it.

Im not sure how ISU absorbs that loss. Their strategy has been dependent on growth, and now it will be forced to shrink. I'd be interested to see their balance sheet. It's the non renevue sports that will pay for ISUs AD and the BOR overplaying it's hand.

No. Iowas deficit was overestimated by $35M.

iowa is in very good shape.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Hawkeye Athletics deficit lower than initially anticipated

The University of Iowa athletic department’s deficit from the last fiscal year — originally projected to be $74.8 million — was instead listed at $44.7 million on state Board of Regent documents released on Tuesday. The figure comes after the fiscal 2021 budget, approved last September, assumed...

dailyiowan.com

And the only reason Iowa was in this position is because the Big Ten conference took an admirably cautious stance on Covid because too many students we’re unvaccinated etc., and ended all sports for most of a year, from big regenue sports like BB to wrestling to football.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

I am focusing on the fact that the smaller schools like cinci or Houston or UCF are generating many millions every year in athletic department “revenue” by forcing students to pay fees. That’s not revenue. That’s selling plasma at Biolife and calling it all good.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

We know and have discussed at length how Pollard ran up big debts and was a social media troll all these years. (Borrowed $60M for $80M in stadium upgrades, compared to only $30M Iowa borrowed for almost $165M in facility upgrades, and Iowa is in the top five in the B10 for revenues, and 14th in the nation, as per the WSJ).

That flimflam only lasts so long. Sooner or later, reality hits hard, and it did nine days ago when the hype met the Hawkeyes, and a huge national audience saw Iowa State for what they were, aspirational flashes in the pan.

Time to look at the schools joining the B12. It's so much worse than I knew. I thought the debate was over, but the issue is deeper than I thought because these programs are funding up to half of their athletic budgets from mandatory student fees. That practice must stop.


Current students shouldn't be forced to pay (or take out loans to pay) for the scholarships of athletes in unsustainable programs like UCF, Cinci, Houston, BYU.



Cincinnati will come crashing down too once they lose their coach and once they will be forced to cut budgets to repay their over $300,000,000 in athletic department debt. But this is now known on these boards, though probably not on Cyclone Fanatic. Soon the national media will begin to dig a bit and see beneath the hype and into the dollars and sense reality. The honest AD's like Goff at Kansas do see reality: this new b12 is a "poor" conference with zero chance of living large off of the big budget schools who have left, or living on borrowed time and $60M in debt (ISU), or $300M in debt (cinci).

According to articles published in the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Cleveland Plain Dealer, current UC students are subsidizing the athletic department over $4,000 per year. While athletic department spending was increased over the last 13 years, needed facility upgrades for academic buildings was slashed, funding on instruction was cut by almost 7%, and spending on research was cut by 26%, while athletic department spending went through the roof. Kinda puts into perspective the price students are being made to pay for their current ranking in FB, and the cost in unbearable debt for all future faculty, students, staff, and families. UC is a time bomb of debt waiting to implode.


UCF

UCF's "growth" has come at the expense of tuition and fees. Athletic departments that live parasitically off of current students, as well as run up debts, which is what small D-1 schools do, and which UCF does, are not sustainable. UCF charges almost $200 in fees for full-time students - $15 per credit hour - in MANDATORY fees to students who are already swimming in student loans anyway. It's a scandal on campus, and this is what Pollard and Clone fanatics tell us is a "big" program that can bring "big" growth in the future, when they've done it by feeding vampirically off of current students and their futures by running up their debts? UCF ran up a $12M deficit last year, 40% of their annual budget, and had to borrow $4M in emergency loans from its UCF foundation to cover expenses. a program which only generates $29M annually, much of which is from mandatory student fees. Almost THIRTEEN MILLION DOLLARS from UCF's "athletic department revenues" are generated from mandatory student fees charged to the 65,000 students. That's almost half their budget. Pathetic and vampiric.


Houston is the same. Here is an article from before Covid - which made things MUCH worse for them - that describes how UH has fed off of existing students to support their AD budget, forcing students to pay mandatory fees on top of tuition, room and board. Despicable.

"As of 2017, Houston had over $117,000,000 in debt for its athletic department"

"UH relies on student fees to support its athletic department, and as of 2017, received $25.7 million in student fees for its budget"

(By the way, Iowa charges students zero dollars in student fees for the athletics department because Iowa's revenues are more than enough to cover nationally-ranked programs like Women's Basketball, Wrestling, Field Hockey (ranked #1), Rowing (consistently top 20), and a football program that's doing pretty well right now.

The new B12 is not just little, it's parasitic on current students, and it's built on debt.


BYU is its own animal, a small program in the middle of nowhere that doesn't fit with any conference. BYU charges radically different fees for Mormon students as non-Mormons, who pay twice as much. Imagine the scandal if Notre Dame or Georgetown or Loyola or Boston College or Villanova charged non-Catholics twice as much? Schools like ND, in reality, rely on their huge endowment. ND's endowment is over $12 Billion. ND meets "100% of demonstrated student need" and is provided regardless of religion, race, gender, or identity. Seems like BYU actively discriminates. Ridiculous. I had no idea. Plus BYU ran up over $20M in debt last year and was seeking donations, but there is no information about whether they are even close to being in the black. Maybe they hope joining a "poor" conference like the new B12 will help?

So let's do some math on a few relevant schools

DEBT
ISU - $60M
UC - $300M
BYU - $20M
Houston - $120M
UCF - $12M

Over half a billion in debt just from these schools, most of which are feeding off of current students to keep the lights on and pay interest on their ballooning debt.

And we are supposed to be impressed?

Wow...pretty rough numbers. What the hell is gonna happen at Cincinnati?

If Gordon Gecko bought these four he'd disolve them and sell the assets.

 

[Hawklad24]

No. Iowas deficit was overestimated by $35M.

iowa is in very good shape.

Both are correct

Hawkeye Athletics deficit lower than initially anticipated

The University of Iowa athletic department’s deficit from the last fiscal year — originally projected to be $74.8 million — was instead listed at $44.7 million on state Board of Regent documents released on Tuesday. The figure comes after the fiscal 2021 budget, approved last September, assumed...

dailyiowan.com

And the only reason Iowa was in this position is because the Big Ten conference took an admirably cautious stance on Covid because too many students we’re unvaccinated etc., and ended all sports for most of a year, from big regenue sports like BB to wrestling to football.

Exactly as I said. Why refute my post only to say the exact same thing?

Up to this point. I think it's fair to say ISU had a plan for its debt. A reckless one, yes, but nothing like the Cinci situation.

Cinci on the other hand shows it's simply impossible these days to become a brand. All that debt just to be fringe P5 in a laughing stock of a conference. Ouch.

 

[Hawklad24]

I am focusing on the fact that the smaller schools like cinci or Houston or UCF are generating many millions every year in athletic department “revenue” by forcing students to pay fees. That’s not revenue. That’s selling plasma at Biolife and calling it all good.

Fair enough. Definitely agree with that and clearly we are like 95% on the same page. I just think ISU is on the early side of what Cinci already finds itself in. They have an opportunity perhaps to not make the same mistakes. But that involves using what is left of their Texas and OU money on their liabilities.

If they keep fighting for relevancy, their debt will get ugly very fast

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Both are correct


Exactly as I said. Why refute my post only to say the exact same thing?

Up to this point. I think it's fair to say ISU had a plan for its debt. A reckless one, yes, but nothing like the Cinci situation.

Cinci on the other hand shows it's simply impossible these days to become a brand. All that debt just to be fringe P5 in a laughing stock of a conference. Ouch.

Kristen Wiig Gilly GIF - Kristen Wiig Gilly - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

Damn I can’t fargin figure out how to post a fargin gif. It ain’t media. It ain’t a video. Whatever.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Fair enough. Definitely agree with that and clearly we are like 95% on the same page. I just think ISU is on the early side of what Cinci already finds itself in. They have an opportunity perhaps to not make the same mistakes. But that involves using what is left of their Texas and OU money on their liabilities.

If they keep fighting for relevancy, their debt will get ugly very fast

Iowa State’s obviously in better shape than Cincinnati, but association and revenue sharing with such low ranked schools and debt addled programs - Houston, UCF are in no better shape - is a recipe for death spiral.

This whole economy is running on debt. At some point soon many bubbles will burst and those on shaky ground will collapse. Including institutions. Much of higher education is a debt fueled bubble. Student loan debt approaching 2 trillion.

And we think we’re just talking about football.

In a decade or two we probably will see MANY schools drop their athletic programs altogether.

UChicago did it and they focused on churning out economists who sold us all on debt and corporate tyrrany, so it got them a lot of Nobel winners and built their “prestige”.

I don’t see how the AACs and MACs and even b12s of the world can continue long term

The debt party is over. We just don’t all know it yet.

 

[Ronman]

I happened across a video yesterday of Pollard bragging about what great financial shape ISU and the new conference members were and how despite the increased level of competition, the Clones would soon be "King of the Hill."

 

[mikesright]

I would keep in mind that in some of these states, Florida especially, the list price for school isn’t really what you pay, and can be nearly free despite these student fees since the state heavily subsidizes tuition. The state of Iowa isn’t nearly as generous in that department.

I think at a minimum the state of Iowa should fund the athletic scholarships for the regent institutions so they can maintain or grow the non revenue sports that the university sponsors. In the end, those scholarships fund some of the best and most driven students on our campus and the state benefits when we attract and keep these people. Its no secret that Florida is one of the highest growth states and the education is increasingly a big reason people are moving there.

Lastly, I think while it is a concern financially and long-term that Cincinnati and other institutions have subsidized a loss leader athletic department, in the end, IT WAS TOTALLY WORTH IT, THEY HIT THE JACKPOT, LOL

 

[ichawk24]

I don't think Cincinnati AD is actually has $300M in debt. They lost that much money over the last so many years, and forced the students and other funds to pay for it. That money is gone, no debt remains.

Other than the student loans some kids are still carrying to pay for sitting US Senator Tommy Tuberville's UC football contract.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Debt will be the end of a lot of things, and not just athletic programs.....of course that assumes that anyone or anything will ever be allowed to fail ever again.

 

[Hawklad24]

I don't think Cincinnati AD is actually has $300M in debt. They lost that much money over the last so many years, and forced the students and other funds to pay for it. That money is gone, no debt remains.

Other than the student loans some kids are still carrying to pay for sitting US Senator Tommy Tuberville's UC football contract.

That's correct technically but the point still stands. Based on the article, I'd say the NCAA considers it to be debt on their books, and the university/state of Ohio does not.

In my eyes, it should absolutely be recognized as debt. They have willingly and intentionally misled the public with that information.

 

[UNIowaHawk]

BYU is certainly in trouble if they are seeking donations from their fans to fund their athletics. I know how much my wife (no pic) spends on clothes and other stupid crap now multiply that by two and three wives and their fans won't have much disposable income.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

This is good information, but no need for outrage in my opinion.

I'm a CPA by trade, and someone once told me, in regards to business acquisitions, that "you can't add a bunch of dogs together and make a cat".

The "new" Big 12 is not looking too good.

 

[DodgerHawki]

Iowa State’s obviously in better shape than Cincinnati, but association and revenue sharing with such low ranked schools and debt addled programs - Houston, UCF are in no better shape - is a recipe for death spiral.

This whole economy is running on debt. At some point soon many bubbles will burst and those on shaky ground will collapse. Including institutions. Much of higher education is a debt fueled bubble. Student loan debt approaching 2 trillion.

And we think we’re just talking about football.

In a decade or two we probably will see MANY schools drop their athletic programs altogether.

UChicago did it and they focused on churning out economists who sold us all on debt and corporate tyrrany, so it got them a lot of Nobel winners and built their “prestige”.

I don’t see how the AACs and MACs and even b12s of the world can continue long term

The debt party is over. We just don’t all know it yet.

You may be correct, in whether many schools will continue to have athletic departments, at least with how they are currently constructed. At some point, there has to be little appetite for general student funds to go toward paying for sports. The Big 12 seems to be banking on staying as power conference status and an automatic entrant into an expanded playoff. I don't think that is a slam dunk.

I've given up on predicting the future of leagues/college sports, other than it will likely look very different. How will people consume games? Good internet service is becoming more ubiquitous, but many Iowans are older/have mediocre Internet service and either won't or can't go big-time into streaming only services. Do conferences keep the equal distribution of media revenues? Or will OSU, Michigan, Penn State, etc., push for greater % of revenues as they draw more subscriptions?

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

I happened across a video yesterday of Pollard bragging about what great financial shape ISU and the new conference members were and how despite the increased level of competition, the Clones would soon be "King of the Hill."

Yes yes yes and this here rusty 2007 Dodge Neon is totally gonna grow up to be a Ferrari!

Just wait till I pay off the car loan! Well, I mean, until I shake down some more students for the money.

Believe me! It’ll be amazing!

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

BYU is certainly in trouble if they are seeking donations from their fans to fund their athletics. I know how much my wife (no pic) spends on clothes and other stupid crap now multiply that by two and three wives and their fans won't have much disposable income.

Ouch.

seriously though I was shocked at their two-tiered tuition policy. Never heard of anything like it, and can’t imagine a world class Catholic university, or even a regional Christian college like Liberty U or Wheaton, doing anything similar and not getting lambasted.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

I would keep in mind that in some of these states, Florida especially, the list price for school isn’t really what you pay, and can be nearly free despite these student fees since the state heavily subsidizes tuition. The state of Iowa isn’t nearly as generous in that department.

I think at a minimum the state of Iowa should fund the athletic scholarships for the regent institutions so they can maintain or grow the non revenue sports that the university sponsors. In the end, those scholarships fund some of the best and most driven students on our campus and the state benefits when we attract and keep these people. Its no secret that Florida is one of the highest growth states and the education is increasingly a big reason people are moving there.

Lastly, I think while it is a concern financially and long-term that Cincinnati and other institutions have subsidized a loss leader athletic department, in the end, IT WAS TOTALLY WORTH IT, THEY HIT THE JACKPOT, LOL

Moving to Florida, which leads the country in Covid deaths, where buildings collapse and hurricanes flatten and flood and where thousands of square miles of low lying coastline - including all of metro Miami - will be under the ocean in a few decades?

Miami Is the "Most Vulnerable" Coastal City Worldwide

In the next two decades, sea-level rise, storm surge and winds will chew away at Florida’s $1-trillion economy, a new report warns

www.scientificamerican.com

good luck.

 

[cohawk]

We know and have discussed at length how Pollard ran up big debts and was a social media troll all these years. (Borrowed $60M for $80M in stadium upgrades, compared to only $30M Iowa borrowed for almost $165M in facility upgrades, and Iowa is in the top five in the B10 for revenues, and 14th in the nation, as per the WSJ).

That flimflam only lasts so long. Sooner or later, reality hits hard, and it did nine days ago when the hype met the Hawkeyes, and a huge national audience saw Iowa State for what they were, aspirational flashes in the pan.

Time to look at the schools joining the B12. It's so much worse than I knew. I thought the debate was over, but the issue is deeper than I thought because these programs are funding up to half of their athletic budgets from mandatory student fees. That practice must stop.


Current students shouldn't be forced to pay (or take out loans to pay) for the scholarships of athletes in unsustainable programs like UCF, Cinci, Houston, BYU, and worse, for six figure salaries of AD administrators and seven figure salaries for coaches. It’s a major scandal that it happens at all.



Cincinnati will come crashing down too once they lose their coach and once they will be forced to cut budgets to repay their over $300,000,000 in athletic department debt. But this is now known on these boards, though probably not on Cyclone Fanatic. Soon the national media will begin to dig a bit and see beneath the hype and into the dollars and sense reality, and I meant that literally. The honest AD's like Goff at Kansas do see reality: this new b12 is a "poor" conference with zero chance of living large off of the big budget schools who have left, or living on borrowed time and $60M in debt (ISU), or $300M in debt (cinci).

According to articles published in the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Cleveland Plain Dealer, current UC students are subsidizing the athletic department over $4,000 per year. While athletic department spending was increased over the last 13 years, needed facility upgrades for academic buildings was slashed, funding on instruction was cut by almost 7%, and spending on research was cut by 26%, while athletic department spending went through the roof. Kinda puts into perspective the price students are being made to pay for their current ranking in FB, and the cost in unbearable debt for all future faculty, students, staff, and families. UC is a time bomb of debt waiting to implode.


UCF

UCF's "growth" has come at the expense of tuition and fees. Athletic departments that live parasitically off of current students, as well as run up debts, which is what small D-1 schools do, and which UCF does, are not sustainable. UCF charges almost $200 in fees for full-time students - $15 per credit hour - in MANDATORY fees to students who are already swimming in student loans anyway. It's a scandal on campus, and this is what Pollard and Clone fanatics tell us is a "big" program that can bring "big" growth in the future, when they've done it by feeding vampirically off of current students and their futures by running up their debts? UCF ran up a $12M deficit last year, 40% of their annual budget, and had to borrow $4M in emergency loans from its UCF foundation to cover expenses. a program which only generates $29M annually, much of which is from mandatory student fees. Almost THIRTEEN MILLION DOLLARS from UCF's "athletic department revenues" are generated from mandatory student fees charged to the 65,000 students. That's almost half their budget. Pathetic and vampiric.


Houston is the same. Here is an article from before Covid - which made things MUCH worse for them - that describes how UH has fed off of existing students to support their AD budget, forcing students to pay mandatory fees on top of tuition, room and board. Despicable.

"As of 2017, Houston had over $117,000,000 in debt for its athletic department"

"UH relies on student fees to support its athletic department, and as of 2017, received $25.7 million in student fees for its budget"

(By the way, Iowa charges students zero dollars in student fees for the athletics department because Iowa's revenues are more than enough to cover nationally-ranked programs like Women's Basketball, Wrestling, Field Hockey (ranked #1), Rowing (consistently top 20), and a football program that's doing pretty well right now.

The new B12 is not just little, it's parasitic on current students, and it's built on debt.


BYU is its own animal, a small program in the middle of nowhere that doesn't fit with any conference. BYU charges radically different fees for Mormon students as non-Mormons, who pay twice as much. Imagine the scandal if Notre Dame or Georgetown or Loyola or Boston College or Villanova charged non-Catholics twice as much? Schools like ND, in reality, rely on their huge endowment. ND's endowment is over $12 Billion. ND meets "100% of demonstrated student need" and is provided regardless of religion, race, gender, or identity. Seems like BYU actively discriminates. Ridiculous. I had no idea. Plus BYU ran up over $20M in debt last year and was seeking donations, but there is no information about whether they are even close to being in the black. Maybe they hope joining a "poor" conference like the new B12 will help?

So let's do some math on a few relevant schools

DEBT
ISU - $60M
UC - $300M
BYU - $20M
Houston - $120M
UCF - $12M

Over half a billion in debt just from these schools, most of which are feeding off of current students to keep the lights on and pay interest on their ballooning debt.

And we are supposed to be impressed?

BYU's tuition is affordable whether you are an LDS member or not. They will also never have money issues. The LDS church is second only to the Catholic church in total assets. It's also not in the middle of nowhere. It's part of the SLC metro area which is home to roughly 1.3m people.

I can't speak to the rest but BYU won't be a financial drain. They just aren't that attractive for bowl games as their fans don't drink and party. Meaning they don't spend money.

 

[mikesright]

Moving to Florida, which leads the country in Covid deaths, where buildings collapse and hurricanes flatten and flood and where thousands of square miles of low lying coastline - including all of metro Miami - will be under the ocean in a few decades?

Miami Is the "Most Vulnerable" Coastal City Worldwide

In the next two decades, sea-level rise, storm surge and winds will chew away at Florida’s $1-trillion economy, a new report warns

www.scientificamerican.com

good luck.

Did you eat paint chips as a kid?

 

[Orion52245]

Moving to Florida, which leads the country in Covid deaths, where buildings collapse and hurricanes flatten and flood and where thousands of square miles of low lying coastline - including all of metro Miami - will be under the ocean in a few decades?

Miami Is the "Most Vulnerable" Coastal City Worldwide

In the next two decades, sea-level rise, storm surge and winds will chew away at Florida’s $1-trillion economy, a new report warns

www.scientificamerican.com

good luck.

Moving to Florida, which leads the country in Covid deaths, where buildings collapse and hurricanes flatten and flood and where thousands of square miles of low lying coastline - including all of metro Miami - will be under the ocean in a few decades?

Miami Is the "Most Vulnerable" Coastal City Worldwide

In the next two decades, sea-level rise, storm surge and winds will chew away at Florida’s $1-trillion economy, a new report warns

www.scientificamerican.com

good luck.

Moving to Florida, which leads the country in Covid deaths, where buildings collapse and hurricanes flatten and flood and where thousands of square miles of low lying coastline - including all of metro Miami - will be under the ocean in a few decades?

Miami Is the "Most Vulnerable" Coastal City Worldwide

In the next two decades, sea-level rise, storm surge and winds will chew away at Florida’s $1-trillion economy, a new report warns

www.scientificamerican.com

good luck.

Like most "scientific" articles whose goal is to push an agenda rather than dealing with truth, it almost exclusively employs the word "could" instead of "will". Far more emotion than facts in this article.

 

[BirdistheWord]

Moving to Florida, which leads the country in Covid deaths, where buildings collapse and hurricanes flatten and flood and where thousands of square miles of low lying coastline - including all of metro Miami - will be under the ocean in a few decades?

Miami Is the "Most Vulnerable" Coastal City Worldwide

In the next two decades, sea-level rise, storm surge and winds will chew away at Florida’s $1-trillion economy, a new report warns

www.scientificamerican.com

good luck.

Where are you getting your data, MSNBC? Florida is not even in the Top 10 in deaths per capita. New York and New Jersey sure are.

Cumulative COVID-19 Cases and Deaths

The Kaiser Family Foundation website provides in-depth information on key health policy issues including Medicaid, Medicare, health reform, global health, HIV/AIDS, health insurance, the uninsured …

www.kff.org

As for this climate alarmism, you are extremely gullible.

 

[BirdistheWord]

We know and have discussed at length how Pollard ran up big debts and was a social media troll all these years. (Borrowed $60M for $80M in stadium upgrades, compared to only $30M Iowa borrowed for almost $165M in facility upgrades, and Iowa is in the top five in the B10 for revenues, and 14th in the nation, as per the WSJ).

That flimflam only lasts so long. Sooner or later, reality hits hard, and it did nine days ago when the hype met the Hawkeyes, and a huge national audience saw Iowa State for what they were, aspirational flashes in the pan.

Time to look at the schools joining the B12. It's so much worse than I knew. I thought the debate was over, but the issue is deeper than I thought because these programs are funding up to half of their athletic budgets from mandatory student fees. That practice must stop.


Current students shouldn't be forced to pay (or take out loans to pay) for the scholarships of athletes in unsustainable programs like UCF, Cinci, Houston, BYU, and worse, for six figure salaries of AD administrators and seven figure salaries for coaches. It’s a major scandal that it happens at all.



Cincinnati will come crashing down too once they lose their coach and once they will be forced to cut budgets to repay their over $300,000,000 in athletic department debt. But this is now known on these boards, though probably not on Cyclone Fanatic. Soon the national media will begin to dig a bit and see beneath the hype and into the dollars and sense reality, and I meant that literally. The honest AD's like Goff at Kansas do see reality: this new b12 is a "poor" conference with zero chance of living large off of the big budget schools who have left, or living on borrowed time and $60M in debt (ISU), or $300M in debt (cinci).

According to articles published in the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Cleveland Plain Dealer, current UC students are subsidizing the athletic department over $4,000 per year. While athletic department spending was increased over the last 13 years, needed facility upgrades for academic buildings was slashed, funding on instruction was cut by almost 7%, and spending on research was cut by 26%, while athletic department spending went through the roof. Kinda puts into perspective the price students are being made to pay for their current ranking in FB, and the cost in unbearable debt for all future faculty, students, staff, and families. UC is a time bomb of debt waiting to implode.


UCF

UCF's "growth" has come at the expense of tuition and fees. Athletic departments that live parasitically off of current students, as well as run up debts, which is what small D-1 schools do, and which UCF does, are not sustainable. UCF charges almost $200 in fees for full-time students - $15 per credit hour - in MANDATORY fees to students who are already swimming in student loans anyway. It's a scandal on campus, and this is what Pollard and Clone fanatics tell us is a "big" program that can bring "big" growth in the future, when they've done it by feeding vampirically off of current students and their futures by running up their debts? UCF ran up a $12M deficit last year, 40% of their annual budget, and had to borrow $4M in emergency loans from its UCF foundation to cover expenses. a program which only generates $29M annually, much of which is from mandatory student fees. Almost THIRTEEN MILLION DOLLARS from UCF's "athletic department revenues" are generated from mandatory student fees charged to the 65,000 students. That's almost half their budget. Pathetic and vampiric.


Houston is the same. Here is an article from before Covid - which made things MUCH worse for them - that describes how UH has fed off of existing students to support their AD budget, forcing students to pay mandatory fees on top of tuition, room and board. Despicable.

"As of 2017, Houston had over $117,000,000 in debt for its athletic department"

"UH relies on student fees to support its athletic department, and as of 2017, received $25.7 million in student fees for its budget"

(By the way, Iowa charges students zero dollars in student fees for the athletics department because Iowa's revenues are more than enough to cover nationally-ranked programs like Women's Basketball, Wrestling, Field Hockey (ranked #1), Rowing (consistently top 20), and a football program that's doing pretty well right now.

The new B12 is not just little, it's parasitic on current students, and it's built on debt.


BYU is its own animal, a small program in the middle of nowhere that doesn't fit with any conference. BYU charges radically different fees for Mormon students as non-Mormons, who pay twice as much. Imagine the scandal if Notre Dame or Georgetown or Loyola or Boston College or Villanova charged non-Catholics twice as much? Schools like ND, in reality, rely on their huge endowment. ND's endowment is over $12 Billion. ND meets "100% of demonstrated student need" and is provided regardless of religion, race, gender, or identity. Seems like BYU actively discriminates. Ridiculous. I had no idea. Plus BYU ran up over $20M in debt last year and was seeking donations, but there is no information about whether they are even close to being in the black. Maybe they hope joining a "poor" conference like the new B12 will help?

So let's do some math on a few relevant schools

DEBT
ISU - $60M
UC - $300M
BYU - $20M
Houston - $120M
UCF - $12M

Over half a billion in debt just from these schools, most of which are feeding off of current students to keep the lights on and pay interest on their ballooning debt.

And we are supposed to be impressed?

UCF is hardly a "small D1" school, it is actually the largest in the country with over 70K students. It has an annual operating budget of about $2B.

List of United States public university campuses by enrollment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

BYU's tuition is affordable whether you are an LDS member or not. They will also never have money issues. The LDS church is second only to the Catholic church in total assets. It's also not in the middle of nowhere. It's part of the SLC metro area which is home to roughly 1.3m people.

I can't speak to the rest but BYU won't be a financial drain. They just aren't that attractive for bowl games as their fans don't drink and party. Meaning they don't spend money.

It’s in the middle of nowhere relative to Texas or iowa or Florida or Ohio. And Utah’s population is only 3 million but I’m pretty sure that includes red rocks and cactus and tumbleweed and bighorn sheep.

UCF is hardly a "small D1" school, it is actually the largest in the country with over 70K students. It has an annual operating budget of about $2B.

List of United States public university campuses by enrollment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

obviously I was talking about their football program which only generates $29M, putting it among MAC schools, and almost half their revenues are from their 65k students, a number I cited in the OP. They are among the bottom half nationally in FB revenue, even after forcing their students to fund much of their budget.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Where are you getting your data, MSNBC? Florida is not even in the Top 10 in deaths per capita. New York and New Jersey sure are.

Cumulative COVID-19 Cases and Deaths

The Kaiser Family Foundation website provides in-depth information on key health policy issues including Medicaid, Medicare, health reform, global health, HIV/AIDS, health insurance, the uninsured …

www.kff.org

As for this climate alarmism, you are extremely gullible.

Florida has led the nation in Covid deaths in recent months, per capita and sometimes in actual numbers, even after we’ve had a vaccine widely available for months, one which was not available when the first major outbreak happened in New York City, our most international and densely and highly populated city. Anti Vaxxers are dying. And putting everyone else in danger when anti science politicians force everyone to deal with dangerous anti vaxxers who continue to make Covid the greatest public health disaster in over a century.

This article cites the consensus of climate scientists. Water levels have risen one foot since 1900 and five inches since 1993. See a trend? salt water is corroding porous limestone under buildings. Etc.

As Miami Keeps Building, Rising Seas Deepen Its Social Divide

Ignoring sea level rise and intensifying flooding, Miami has continued to build luxury real estate near the water at a rapid pace. But as developers eye higher ground, communities of color will likely bear the heaviest burden from the changes wrought by climate change.

e360.yale.edu

and as for climatic and oceanographic data - I’m citing science; which is based on facts, math, physics. You can observe the rate of polar ice cap melt and Greenland ice melt etc and you can do math and calculate how much water is melting and will melt as
and then that water goes where?

Miami will be underwater within decades. It’s now inevitable. Ice melt is baked into the system even if we stop all CO2 emissions today.

have you studied physics or do you just ignore it?

global heating is, tragically, actually happening, no matter what the corporate shills on Fox News tell you.

read the actual science. Not the propaganda.

but back to the point - Florida’s growth is limited and will trend in the opposite direction as people are forced to move due to man made hazards from horrible Covid management to natural disasters exacerbated by anthropogenic climate change.

no emotion here other then a sickening feeling that some people prefer magical thinking over facts, science, epidemiology, physics.

but back to the facts and numbers about UCF, UH, Uc, and BYU….

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

More articles about the scandals and debts funding a parasitic cinci athletic department that is literally siphoning money away from
Students and university programs:

In the Red: UC gave athletic department $32.9 million to cover deficit, create “surplus”

In April 2020, the University of Cincinnati's (UC) Athletic Director John Cunningham announced the university would discontinue the men's soccer program.

www.newsrecord.org

And here is a Bloomberg piece from four years ago that gives a national picture. Only the conferences that have the TV revenue for debt service can be sustainable, meaning B10 and SEC.

The B12 btw was the only conference the article profiled as a whole for being in trouble with debt top to bottom.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Schools like cinci and houston and UCF and BYU that rely on student fees or donations to support their small budgets and big deficits and debts are not sustainable. And when they form a conference the whole thing is even less sustainable.

 

[AuroraHawk]

The B12 btw was the only conference the article profiled as a whole for being in trouble with debt top to bottom.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

That article neither “profiles” the Big 12 nor concludes that Big 12 institutions are in “trouble.”

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Moving to Florida, which leads the country in Covid deaths, where buildings collapse and hurricanes flatten and flood and where thousands of square miles of low lying coastline - including all of metro Miami - will be under the ocean in a few decades?

Miami Is the "Most Vulnerable" Coastal City Worldwide

In the next two decades, sea-level rise, storm surge and winds will chew away at Florida’s $1-trillion economy, a new report warns

www.scientificamerican.com

good luck.

Any credibility you may have had--MAY have--just went out the window

 

[GoUIowa]

Iowa State’s obviously in better shape than Cincinnati, but association and revenue sharing with such low ranked schools and debt addled programs - Houston, UCF are in no better shape - is a recipe for death spiral.

This whole economy is running on debt. At some point soon many bubbles will burst and those on shaky ground will collapse. Including institutions. Much of higher education is a debt fueled bubble. Student loan debt approaching 2 trillion.

And we think we’re just talking about football.

In a decade or two we probably will see MANY schools drop their athletic programs altogether.

UChicago did it and they focused on churning out economists who sold us all on debt and corporate tyrrany, so it got them a lot of Nobel winners and built their “prestige”.

I don’t see how the AACs and MACs and even b12s of the world can continue long term

The debt party is over. We just don’t all know it yet.

ISU in a “death spiral”?? I think you’re overstating things a bit. You certainly do have a flair for being dramatic. I’ll give you that.

 

[hawkfeever]

Once they sign a new media deal we shall know their exact worth. That won’t lie.

 

[AuroraHawk]

We know and have discussed at length how Pollard ran up big debts and was a social media troll all these years. (Borrowed $60M for $80M in stadium upgrades, compared to only $30M Iowa borrowed for almost $165M in facility upgrades, and Iowa is in the top five in the B10 for revenues, and 14th in the nation, as per the WSJ).

That flimflam only lasts so long. Sooner or later, reality hits hard, and it did nine days ago when the hype met the Hawkeyes, and a huge national audience saw Iowa State for what they were, aspirational flashes in the pan.

Time to look at the schools joining the B12. It's so much worse than I knew. I thought the debate was over, but the issue is deeper than I thought because these programs are funding up to half of their athletic budgets from mandatory student fees. That practice must stop.


Current students shouldn't be forced to pay (or take out loans to pay) for the scholarships of athletes in unsustainable programs like UCF, Cinci, Houston, BYU, and worse, for six figure salaries of AD administrators and seven figure salaries for coaches. It’s a major scandal that it happens at all.



Cincinnati will come crashing down too once they lose their coach and once they will be forced to cut budgets to repay their over $300,000,000 in athletic department debt. But this is now known on these boards, though probably not on Cyclone Fanatic. Soon the national media will begin to dig a bit and see beneath the hype and into the dollars and sense reality, and I meant that literally. The honest AD's like Goff at Kansas do see reality: this new b12 is a "poor" conference with zero chance of living large off of the big budget schools who have left, or living on borrowed time and $60M in debt (ISU), or $300M in debt (cinci).

According to articles published in the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Cleveland Plain Dealer, current UC students are subsidizing the athletic department over $4,000 per year. While athletic department spending was increased over the last 13 years, needed facility upgrades for academic buildings was slashed, funding on instruction was cut by almost 7%, and spending on research was cut by 26%, while athletic department spending went through the roof. Kinda puts into perspective the price students are being made to pay for their current ranking in FB, and the cost in unbearable debt for all future faculty, students, staff, and families. UC is a time bomb of debt waiting to implode.


UCF

UCF's "growth" has come at the expense of tuition and fees. Athletic departments that live parasitically off of current students, as well as run up debts, which is what small D-1 schools do, and which UCF does, are not sustainable. UCF charges almost $200 in fees for full-time students - $15 per credit hour - in MANDATORY fees to students who are already swimming in student loans anyway. It's a scandal on campus, and this is what Pollard and Clone fanatics tell us is a "big" program that can bring "big" growth in the future, when they've done it by feeding vampirically off of current students and their futures by running up their debts? UCF ran up a $12M deficit last year, 40% of their annual budget, and had to borrow $4M in emergency loans from its UCF foundation to cover expenses. a program which only generates $29M annually, much of which is from mandatory student fees. Almost THIRTEEN MILLION DOLLARS from UCF's "athletic department revenues" are generated from mandatory student fees charged to the 65,000 students. That's almost half their budget. Pathetic and vampiric.


Houston is the same. Here is an article from before Covid - which made things MUCH worse for them - that describes how UH has fed off of existing students to support their AD budget, forcing students to pay mandatory fees on top of tuition, room and board. Despicable.

"As of 2017, Houston had over $117,000,000 in debt for its athletic department"

"UH relies on student fees to support its athletic department, and as of 2017, received $25.7 million in student fees for its budget"

(By the way, Iowa charges students zero dollars in student fees for the athletics department because Iowa's revenues are more than enough to cover nationally-ranked programs like Women's Basketball, Wrestling, Field Hockey (ranked #1), Rowing (consistently top 20), and a football program that's doing pretty well right now.

The new B12 is not just little, it's parasitic on current students, and it's built on debt.


BYU is its own animal, a small program in the middle of nowhere that doesn't fit with any conference. BYU charges radically different fees for Mormon students as non-Mormons, who pay twice as much. Imagine the scandal if Notre Dame or Georgetown or Loyola or Boston College or Villanova charged non-Catholics twice as much? Schools like ND, in reality, rely on their huge endowment. ND's endowment is over $12 Billion. ND meets "100% of demonstrated student need" and is provided regardless of religion, race, gender, or identity. Seems like BYU actively discriminates. Ridiculous. I had no idea. Plus BYU ran up over $20M in debt last year and was seeking donations, but there is no information about whether they are even close to being in the black. Maybe they hope joining a "poor" conference like the new B12 will help?

So let's do some math on a few relevant schools

DEBT
ISU - $60M
UC - $300M
BYU - $20M
Houston - $120M
UCF - $12M

Over half a billion in debt just from these schools, most of which are feeding off of current students to keep the lights on and pay interest on their ballooning debt.

And we are supposed to be impressed?

You continue to misrepresent what the WSJ article is reporting. I’m having a difficult time determining whether you are doing so deliberately or if you simply don’t understand the WSJ reporting. Given your fixation on arguing that the four schools joining the Big 12 are ticking financial time bombs, I can’t help but think that you are being purposefully "spin doctoring" what is being reported.

UCF’s AD does not generate only $29M annually. In 2019, it generated over $69M. I’ve previously linked the USA Today article detailing AD revenues (in anticipation of your "link your sources!" response). Thus, your numbers for UCF AD revenues are off by about 237% (I'll "show my math" - $69M/$29M = 2.379). The WSJ article only shows football revenues; it does not show all athletic department revenues. While one might be tempted to conclude that "hey, it was a simple oversight by the OP," it has been pointed out to the OP on this forum - at least once - that the WSJ article only lists football revenue. When OP previously argued that Iowa's AD generated about the same amount of revenue as Texas A&M's AD and cited the WSJ article in support, I pointed out that he could not be more wrong. Iowa generated $150M in AD revenue in 2019, Texas A&M generated $212M. Simple math ($62M/$150M) tells me that A&M's AD generated about 41% more revenue than Iowa's AD.

Also, when you write that UCF’s $12M deficit was 40% of its budget, you are off by approximately 22%. It is about 17.4% of its budget. ($12M/$69M = .1739 (or 17.4%))

UCF generates approximately $23M of its $69M AD revenue by charging student fees of about $200/semester. That’s not “almost half its budget” as you argue. It is approximately one-third of its budget ($69M/$23M = .3333). While I’d still expect for you argue that it is “parasitic” or “vampiric” or some other perjorative adjective, it doesn’t change the fact that you are grossly incorrect with the numbers you cite which, in turn, detracts from any credibility you may have and makes you appear as being agenda driven rather than factually driven.

As for being “agenda driven,” the UCF article you cite as being a “scandal” at UCF does not come close to supporting your claim. The only UCF student cited in that article was supportive of the practice and believes that it is good for UCF as a whole. You also cite the article for the proposition that UCF charges "nearly" $200/semester. The article states that UCF charges $172/semester in student fees. For someone who likes to portray himself as being "factually driven," it is a curious rounding decision. You could have written that UCF charges "nearly" $175/semester but . . . perhaps you figure adding $28 (approximately 16%) to the actual figure is - perhaps - more shocking to the conscience. ($28/$172 = .162).

 

[kcgolfer]

The Big 12 is exactly like the Titanic. It’s taking on water and will eventually slip beneath the waves. It’s unstoppable because there simply aren’t enough TV sets to sustain it.

 

[radicalhawk]

So let's do some math on a few relevant schools

DEBT
ISU - $60M
UC - $300M
BYU - $20M
Houston - $120M
UCF - $12M

Rutgers - $265M https://www.northjersey.com/story/n...tigation-takeaways-report-big-ten/8324221002/

 

[AuroraHawk]

BYU is its own animal, a small program in the middle of nowhere that doesn't fit with any conference. BYU charges radically different fees for Mormon students as non-Mormons, who pay twice as much. Imagine the scandal if Notre Dame or Georgetown or Loyola or Boston College or Villanova charged non-Catholics twice as much? Schools like ND, in reality, rely on their huge endowment. ND's endowment is over $12 Billion. ND meets "100% of demonstrated student need" and is provided regardless of religion, race, gender, or identity. Seems like BYU actively discriminates. Ridiculous. I had no idea. Plus BYU ran up over $20M in debt last year and was seeking donations, but there is no information about whether they are even close to being in the black. Maybe they hope joining a "poor" conference like the new B12 will help?

You sure do like to use the word "scandal."

How is it a "scandal" when BYU's LDS/non-LDS tuition structure is publicly available and the reasoning for such practice is fully disclosed?

This is straight from their website: https://finserve.byu.edu/students-parents/tuition-fees-deadlines

Tuition and general fees for all academic programs are established annually by Brigham Young University. BYU is a non-profit corporation affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and significant portions of university operating costs are paid with the tithes of Church members. In recognition of this support, Church members are assessed lower tuition fees than those who are not members. This practice is similar in principle to that of state universities charging higher tuition to nonresidents. Students are considered members of the Church if they have been baptized at any time during the semester or term.

That seems pretty open and transparent to me. I'd also note that "full boat" at BYU for a non-LDS member is estimated to be $26,276: https://enrollment.byu.edu/financial-aid/cost-of-attendance "Full boat" at the University of Iowa for an in-state student is estimated to be $26,400: https://admissions.uiowa.edu/finances/estimated-costs-attendance

Thus, a non-LDS student can attend private BYU for about the same cost as an in-state student at the University of Iowa. I'm having a hard time generating much outrage about BYU's tuition structure. Yawn.

 

[SoDakHawk]

Rutgers racked up some debt because they needed to build up their AD and facilities to Big Ten standards in order to compete. Now that they are going to receive full Big Ten money they will reap the rewards.

That debt was an investment in their future and their payment into the big boys club. The difference between Rutgers and Cincy is that Rutgers is going to get the big payoff. Cincy will get peanuts in payoff because they bought their way into the little boys club.