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Ben Carson’s tortured defense of his fetal tissue research

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
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Ben Carson doesn't deny using fetal tissue from aborted fetuses for medical research in the early 1990s. But the way in which the former Johns Hopkins neurosurgeon received and used the tissue is very different from how Planned Parenthood obtains and sells its fetal tissue, he claims.

News of Carson's medical research with fetal tissue came to light Wednesday night when one of his former research colleagues published details of the pair's 1992 research using fetal tissue. The issue is timely, given Republicans — including Carson — have denounced Planned Parenthood after secretly records video showed officials talking about procurement of fetal tissues.

It also threatens to dog Carson's presidential ambitions — especially given his somewhat odd explanation.

Carson on Thursday rejected the comparison between his research and what Planned Parenthood has been accused of doing.

"You have to look at the intent," Carson told The Washington Post's Dave Weigel before he began a campaign swing through New Hampshire. "To willfully ignore evidence that you have for some ideological reason is wrong. If you’re killing babies and taking the tissue, that’s a very different thing than taking a dead specimen and keeping a record of it."

If you had to reread that once or twice, you're not alone. It's a very complex — and politically charged — issue.

Carson appears to be saying that the fetal tissue he used for research didn't come from fetuses aborted specifically for use in medical research. He also appears to accuse Planned Parenthood of doing just that. But that's a charge Planned Parenthood has flatly rejected and isn't proved by the videos.

First, a little background: Fetal tissue is used in experimental medical research to treat diseases. It has been linked to helping patients with Parkinson's disease and paralysis. But selling fetal tissue for profit is illegal in the United States.

Last month, several videos from anti-abortion activists showed Planned Parenthood officials talking casually about using fetal tissue from aborted fetuses for medical research. The videos implied that they were benefiting financially. Planned Parenthood officials apologized for their tone in the videos but maintain to this day they've done nothing wrong.

[How Planned Parenthood actually uses its federal funding]

That didn't stop Republicans in Congress and on the 2016 campaign trail from coming down hard on Planned Parenthood, promising to strip the organization from some $500 million in annual federal funding.

Carson was among those hitting Planned Parenthood hard, lending his considerable medical heft as a renowned neurosurgeon to the debate. He told Fox News's Megyn Kelly that fetal tissue research was basically useless and the same things could be accomplished without it.

"And if you go back over the years, and look at the research that has been done and all the things that it was supposed to deliver, very little of that has been done, and there’s nothing that can’t be done without fetal tissue," Carson said.

On Thursday, though, Carson told Weigel that the use of fetal tissue shouldn't be banned and declined to say whether Planned Parenthood should stop providing fetal tissue for medical research. So one one hand, Carson said the use of fetal tissue doesn't produce results and is interchangeable with less morally fraught materials, and on the other he used it himself and now says it shouldn't be banned.

So perhaps Carson simply evolved on the issue? That's what Carson campaign aide Armstrong Williams said before Carson weighed in.

"It's a different world than 1992 when this research happened," Williams told Weigel. "All you've got to do is read the transcript from Megyn Kelly. Obviously, he's evolved."

But then Carson told Weigel that there really is no conflict between the research he did and his anti-abortion-rights views today.

There was no contradiction between this science and Carson's pro-life views, he said. "My primary responsibility in that research was when I operated on people and obtained the tissue," said Carson, who noted that he has not used fetal tissue samples since then.

Something tells use Carson hasn't issued his last comments on this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-his-research-with-fetal-tissue/?tid=pm_pop_b
 
This is especially fun considering Carson ignores evidence for ideological reasons on a variety of topics.
 
I could justify and explain Carson's position better than he did.

For me to think a comedian is funny, he has to be funnier than I am. Which is a fairly low bar. Yet some aren't. Similarly, for me to think a guy is up to being president, he should be able to explain issues like this better than I can. And he failed.
 
Geez, lay off the guy. How is he supposed to come up with a plausible explanation without consulting his Bible first.
He did not do research on fetal tissue. He went from one surgery to another. He was a surgeon not a researcher. What's toured about this story is the story itself. It's a lie at worst or an attempt to mislead at best. It shows how desperate the left is to make up a story as weak as this
 
He did not do research on fetal tissue. He went from one surgery to another. He was a surgeon not a researcher. What's toured about this story is the story itself. It's a lie at worst or an attempt to mislead at best. It shows how desperate the left is to make up a story as weak as this
Did you read the story? It would indicate you are wrong.

"Yes, Dr. Ben Carson has done research on fetal tissue and published his findings. His name is on the paper so that means he had a substantive role in the research and supports the methods and findings."
https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/ben-carson-did-research-on-17-week-fetal-tissue/
 
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He did not do research on fetal tissue. He went from one surgery to another. He was a surgeon not a researcher. What's toured about this story is the story itself. It's a lie at worst or an attempt to mislead at best. It shows how desperate the left is to make up a story as weak as this
So are you saying the paper that lists Carson as an author is fake? Or are you saying that what they did isn't considered fetal tissue research?
 
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You guys can stop trying to assassinate his character or rip him apart. He isn't going to win anyway.

You need to roll up your sleeves and really dig down deep in the mud to get the worst you can find on any Republican candidate who might win.

By the way, ignore that Hillary had her private server professionally scrubbed clean before she turned it over.
 
He did not do research on fetal tissue. He went from one surgery to another. He was a surgeon not a researcher. What's toured about this story is the story itself. It's a lie at worst or an attempt to mislead at best. It shows how desperate the left is to make up a story as weak as this
You cannot be this ignorant. He fully acknowledged doing research with legally and ethically obtained fetal tissue.
 
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I actually understood his position and statements the first time reading it, unlike the author, and I honestly don't see any of the character or position conflicts the author is trying to point out. Here's how I read it:

In 1992 or thereabouts, Ben Carson believed there were possible great benefits to fetal tissue research, and he did research on fetal tissue from babies that were already dead (maybe not viable/miscarried), not aborted. Through his research and the research of others there has been basically no progress that couldn't have been gained without fetal tissue. He won't go so far as to say they should stop all research, because maybe something can still be learned. It doesn't mean we should be harvesting viable babies with developed body parts for research.

To me, there's nothing unreasonable about that, and it's a stretch to try turning it into a character flaw. The only reason I can see that anyone would is because he has an "R" after his name for the time being, and that's all it takes for some "D's" to dislike him.
 
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I actually understood his position and statements the first time reading it, unlike the author, and I honestly don't see any of the character or position conflicts the author is trying to point out. Here's how I read it:

In 1992 or thereabouts, Ben Carson believed there were possible great benefits to fetal tissue research, and he did research on fetal tissue from babies that were already dead (maybe not viable/miscarried), not aborted. Through his research and the research of others there has been basically no progress that couldn't have been gained without fetal tissue. He won't go so far as to say they should stop all research, because maybe something can still be learned. It doesn't mean we should be harvesting viable babies with developed body parts for research.

To me, there's nothing unreasonable about that, and it's a stretch to try turning it into a character flaw. The only reason I can see that anyone would is because he has an "R" after his name for the time being, and that's all it takes for some "D's" to dislike him.
I can dislike him as a candidate for many reasons, but this certainly is not one of them. He talks like a true scientist. Here's how I have read some of his comments. The tissue is available and can be of potential benefit (he still maintains this position). You may disagree with how it was obtained, but Carson has stated that fetal tissue research is not immoral nor should it be banned.
In my opinion, his stance on this shows how someone can be anti-choice (the 'pro-life' label just seem stupid to me; nobody's 'anti-life') and still appreciate the potential benefits of research on the available tissue (with the caveat that it's obtained ethically and legally). I think this puts him in a more favorable light.
 
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You cannot be this ignorant. He fully acknowledged doing research with legally and ethically obtained fetal tissue.

No, he did not fully acknowledge he took art in the actual research. The story is misleading, and he was on the networks last night discussing this. Geeez, you guys read one article your mind is made up.
 
No, he did not fully acknowledge he took art in the actual research. The story is misleading, and he was on the networks last night discussing this. Geeez, you guys read one article your mind is made up.
Did you read the article that he co-authored? In it, they used tissue from fetuses aborted in the 9th and 17th weeks of gestation. He indicated the study in which he took part had a different intent than what he believes to be the intent of the tissue sold by Planned Parenthood.

I may disagree with some of his views on Planned Parenthood as a whole, but I personally don't believe there's anything wrong with his past research using fetal tissue, nor his current views on abortion itself. I don't find them to be incompatible or hypocritical.
 
No, he did not fully acknowledge he took art in the actual research. The story is misleading, and he was on the networks last night discussing this. Geeez, you guys read one article your mind is made up.
His name is on the research. Are you saying it was forged?
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carson3.jpg

https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/ben-carson-did-research-on-17-week-fetal-tissue/
 
How do you know that the fetal tissue he did research on was from a purposely aborted fetus? (No I did not read any article, so if it said as much my apologies). Why would you not research a fetal death if given the opportunity? (Again, I don't know what kind of research he did).
 
How do you know that the fetal tissue he did research on was from a purposely aborted fetus? (No I did not read any article, so if it said as much my apologies). Why would you not research a fetal death if given the opportunity? (Again, I don't know what kind of research he did).
The article does say so, it was a 17 week fetus. Your second question is the same one Planned Parenthood asks which Carson objects to.
 
Did you read the article that he co-authored? In it, they used tissue from fetuses aborted in the 9th and 17th weeks of gestation. He indicated the study in which he took part had a different intent than what he believes to be the intent of the tissue sold by Planned Parenthood.

I may disagree with some of his views on Planned Parenthood as a whole, but I personally don't believe there's anything wrong with his past research using fetal tissue, nor his current views on abortion itself. I don't find them to be incompatible or hypocritical.

Well, his explanation on the tube last night does not jive with what's in that article. He said he didn't take part in the study. He did supply the tissue samples of anywhere from the fetus stage up to 99 years of age. Said the guy performing the study added him in the paper because he provided him with tissue samples, but Carson said he sis not participate in the study, unless you're going to count providing the tissue. Again, the tissue he provided was not from abortions he performed. At least that's what he was stating last night.
 
Well, his explanation on the tube last night does not jive with what's in that article. He said he didn't take part in the study. He did supply the tissue samples of anywhere from the fetus stage up to 99 years of age. Said the guy performing the study added him in the paper because he provided him with tissue samples, but Carson said he sis not participate in the study, unless you're going to count providing the tissue. Again, the tissue he provided was not from abortions he performed. At least that's what he was stating last night.
But they were from abortions right? No one claimed he personally perform the abortion, just that he used fetal tissue of the same type he condemns PP for gathering.
 
The article does say so, it was a 17 week fetus. Your second question is the same one Planned Parenthood asks which Carson objects to.
I guess if it is there (the material), it is there. To me that is different than saying "go get me a fresh one".
 
I guess if it is there (the material), it is there. To me that is different than saying "go get me a fresh one".
Good, that's what PP is doing too. The abortion is there, they are just preserving the tissue and sending to Carson's friend the same way he did.
 
Well, his explanation on the tube last night does not jive with what's in that article. He said he didn't take part in the study. He did supply the tissue samples of anywhere from the fetus stage up to 99 years of age. Said the guy performing the study added him in the paper because he provided him with tissue samples, but Carson said he sis not participate in the study, unless you're going to count providing the tissue. Again, the tissue he provided was not from abortions he performed. At least that's what he was stating last night.
I never said he performed any abortions, just that he participated in a study in which tissue samples of fetuses aborted at 9 and 17 weeks of gestation were used. I'm going to read the study and maybe find out exactly what took place and what his role was.

Also, I don't think his role in this study is in any way conflicting with his current views on Planned Parenthood. Dr. Carson has said repeatedly he does not find research using fetal tissue legally and ethically obtained to be immoral. His views with Planned Parenthood appear to indicate he does not approve of their manner of providing the tissue to research organizations.
 
This actually sounds worse. In this he admits he did do the abortion and gave the tissue over to the researcher. He is acting just like Planned Parenthood here.

He did not admit he did the abortion. My GOD you people are freaking relentless. He said these are often from Spontaneous abortions or ectopic pregnancies. The host mentioned something about to save a mother's life. Ben Carson never once in this interview said he performed an abortion to get this tissue.
 
He did not admit he did the abortion. My GOD you people are freaking relentless. He said these are often from Spontaneous abortions or ectopic pregnancies. The host mentioned something about to save a mother's life. Ben Carson never once in this interview said he performed an abortion to get this tissue.
Who is claiming Carson performed abortions? Certainly not me. All I'm saying is Dr. Carson played a significant enough role to warrant co-authorship on a study in which tissue from fetuses aborted at 9 and 17 weeks gestation were used. AND, I don't find this to be in conflict with his views about Planned Parenthood or abortion rights.
Period.
Full stop.
Like I said, I'm going to read the full article later and find out the original source of the fetal tissue if I can. Again, not that I think it diminishes his role in the study or his views on abortion rights.
 
Who is claiming Carson performed abortions? Certainly not me.

I replied to naturalmwa. He claimed Ben Carson said it himself in the interview. He needs his ears checked. :)

Also, did you watch the video where he says he did not participate in the study?
 
He did not admit he did the abortion. My GOD you people are freaking relentless. He said these are often from Spontaneous abortions or ectopic pregnancies. The host mentioned something about to save a mother's life. Ben Carson never once in this interview said he performed an abortion to get this tissue.
Yes he did. Watch it again

Carson @ 5:00: My part is to do the operation and supply the tissue.

Eric Bolling @ 5:30: What you've done is after a procedure is done, maybe it was to save a mother's life. You may have been in contact with fetal tissue, but you had no part in the scientific research of the tissue once it's left the operating room.
Carson @ 5:45: Correct.

They guy admits he supplied fetal tissue for research just like he criticizes PP for doing. So in fact he has done abortions. This just keeps getting better.
 
Yes he did. Watch it again

Carson @ 5:00: My part is to do the operation and supply the tissue.

Eric Bolling @ 5:30: What you've done is after a procedure is done, maybe it was to save a mother's life. You may have been in contact with fetal tissue, but you had no part in the scientific research of the tissue once it's left the operating room.
Carson @ 5:45: Correct.

They guy admits he supplied fetal tissue for research just like he criticizes PP for doing. So in fact he has done abortions. This just keeps getting better.


He criticizes PP because they are accused of profiting from it.

And you're telling me that from that back and forth in that interview, that a neurosurgeon performs abortions? Physically performs them?
 
He criticizes PP because they are accused of profiting from it.

And you're telling me that from that back and forth in that interview, that a neurosurgeon performs abortions? Physically performs them?
Apparently so, he went into the operating room, performed some procedure and came out with fetal tissue. You tell me the name of that procedure they are so careful not to identify. Then find the hospital records and tell me that procedure was done for free.
 
Apparently so, he went into the operating room, performed some procedure and came out with fetal tissue. You tell me the name of that procedure they are so careful not to identify. Then find the hospital records and tell me that procedure was done for free.

You are out of your mind. You show me one instance where a neurosurgeon would perform an abortion. Simply out of your mind.
 
You guys can stop trying to assassinate his character or rip him apart. He isn't going to win anyway.

You need to roll up your sleeves and really dig down deep in the mud to get the worst you can find on any Republican candidate who might win.
I'm inclined to agree. Which doesn't mean he should get a free pass when he's wrong, lies or is nutty. But don't make a big deal of it.

That's also the position I've taken on Trump. If he really is a clown, just chuckle, move on, and let his show run down on its own.

OTOH, maybe there's something to be learned here. Those candidates on the verge of falling by the wayside may want to say something that can be interpreted as outrageous. Then pay a few people to be outraged. Then call into prominent shows to defend yourself (while saying a few more outrageous things to salt the mine for the future).
 
I'm inclined to agree. Which doesn't mean he should get a free pass when he's wrong, lies or is nutty. But don't make a big deal of it.

That's also the position I've taken on Trump. If he really is a clown, just chuckle, move on, and let his show run down on its own.

OTOH, maybe there's something to be learned here. Those candidates on the verge of falling by the wayside may want to say something that can be interpreted as outrageous. Then pay a few people to be outraged. Then call into prominent shows to defend yourself (while saying a few more outrageous things to salt the mine for the future).

Perry, who is apparently out of money, could say something that sounds like he would let the South secede if he became president. Fun should ensue, with him at the center of attention.
 
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