Big 10 Scheduling idea - from TheMat

[Chickenman Testa]

I have to say I like this idea a lot - courtesy of Carp (he may be an Iowa fan from other posts of his):

------------ snip

There is a way to fix this, but the Big Ten administrative powers won't do it.

Institute a system similar to English Premier League Soccer where there would be two divisions based on where teams finished the previous year (either matches or the tournament). Every year two teams are relegated (drop down) and two advance. This means that there is round robin among the top seven and among the bottom seven. Every team wrestles two matches out of their division. This insures that the best teams routinely wrestle each other. Attendance at these matches (and perhaps among the lower teams) will be enhanced. If, like Michigan State, the chances for advancement appear slim, there is an incentive to improve or, from the AD's point of view, fire the coach.

-------

I am a big soccer fan and promotion/ relegation battles in the major world leagues are full of intrigue and the stakes are enormous. The stakes for the scenario above wouldn't be nearly so high - no one at the bottom of the 2nd group would be relegated to, oh, say the Missouri Valley Conference, but it's still a cool idea.

What do you guys think?

 

[artradley]

I have to say I like this idea a lot - courtesy of Carp (he may be an Iowa fan from other posts of his):

------------ snip

There is a way to fix this, but the Big Ten administrative powers won't do it.

Institute a system similar to English Premier League Soccer where there would be two divisions based on where teams finished the previous year (either matches or the tournament). Every year two teams are relegated (drop down) and two advance. This means that there is round robin among the top seven and among the bottom seven. Every team wrestles two matches out of their division. This insures that the best teams routinely wrestle each other. Attendance at these matches (and perhaps among the lower teams) will be enhanced. If, like Michigan State, the chances for advancement appear slim, there is an incentive to improve or, from the AD's point of view, fire the coach.

-------

I am a big soccer fan and promotion/ relegation battles in the major world leagues are full of intrigue and the stakes are enormous. The stakes for the scenario above wouldn't be nearly so high - no one at the bottom of the 2nd group would be relegated to, oh, say the Missouri Valley Conference, but it's still a cool idea.

What do you guys think?

Makes sense to me. Which, as they say, likely means it will never happen.

 

[HawCory]

Stupid idea imo. The top guys will meet at B1Gs and Nationals. Sure, we would all like to see Iowa match up with Penn St. and Ohio St., but it isn't the end of the world if they miss each other some years.

 

[1stplacehawk]

I've seen this idea floated around previously. I'd be fine if they did this, but I'm not one of the guys that particularly cares if we wrestle a murderous schedule every year. The B1G schedule (regardless of teams) with Iowa State, Oklahoma State and Midlands is enough for me. I'm fine with the guys getting a few snoozers throughout the year that can be trained through or used to get guys fully healthy.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

I've seen this idea floated around previously. I'd be fine if they did this, but I'm not one of the guys that particularly cares if we wrestle a murderous schedule every year. The B1G schedule (regardless of teams) with Iowa State, Oklahoma State and Midlands is enough for me. I'm fine with the guys getting a few snoozers throughout the year that can be trained through or used to get guys fully healthy.

Iven never understood the thought that less matches makes a guy a more healthy and ready? We talk about being fresh for the end of the year and peaking whic I understand till a certain point, but why does a 7 min match wear down a 20 year old kid more than a 2 hour Iowa practice?

I would think the chance for injury is the same in a practice? Its not like they are showing up and shooting free throws on the days they dont have meets. It's wrestling.

 

[1stplacehawk]

Iven never understood the thought that less matches makes a guy a more healthy and ready? We talk about being fresh for the end of the year and peaking whic I understand till a certain point, but why does a 7 min match wear down a 20 year old kid more than a 2 hour Iowa practice?

I would think the chance for injury is the same in a practice? Its not like they are showing up and shooting free throws on the days they dont have meets. It's wrestling.

The training through was a reference to peaking properly instead of having too many peaks and valleys in a season. Having a few cupcakes allows a guy like Burak that might be a little dinged up to sit and heal against South Dakota State. If we were wrestling Penn State that probably isn't going to happen. Wrestling every match against a ranked opponent takes a toll both physically and mentally

 

[Ihawkd9times]

The training through was a reference to peaking properly instead of having too many peaks and valleys in a season. Having a few cupcakes allows a guy like Burak that might be a little dinged up to sit and heal against South Dakota State. If we were wrestling Penn State that probably isn't going to happen. Wrestling every match against a ranked opponent takes a toll both physically and mentally

Not that I really disagree for say Burak or Clark but I dont think too many matches have been our issue at Nationals. Seems more like too many practices is more wearing them down than a 7 min match. . I could be worng, just really trying to see some different views on this to understand. Then again I dont see any benefit of sitting say Grothus tonight. and I really dont want Burak to sit vs the #1 NAIA guy. It will be a good workout for him.

Do matches mess up peaking? I guess i assumed practice were 90% the issue with peaking, not too many tough matches in Jan or Feb?

And also I feel like we wrestle better at Bigs than NCAA's? Any else think this and wonder why?

 

[1stplacehawk]

Not that I really disagree for say Burak or Clark but I dont think too many matches have been our issue at Nationals. Seems more like too many practices is more wearing them down than a 7 min match. . I could be worng, just really trying to see some different views on this to understand. Then again I dont see any benefit of sitting say Grothus tonight. and I really dont want Burak to sit vs the #1 NAIA guy. It will be a good workout for him.

Do matches mess up peaking? I guess i assumed practice were 90% the issue with peaking, not too many tough matches in Jan or Feb?

And also I feel like we wrestle better at Bigs than NCAA's? Any else think this and wonder why?

I really am indifferent, but can see the benefit of having a few cupcakes and it doesn't bother me near as much as most on this board. The intensity of practices a day or two before matches very depending on the opponent, which can play into a successful peak. It would have been exciting to wrestle PSU and tOSU this year but I don't really see it hurting us in March because we didn't.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Do you think the team is going all out practice like mad men through this meet tonight but likely starting next week the team practices will be cut way done and Brands will gear more towards individual practices throught the NWCA dual and until Bigs?

So should be pretty fresh to smak Mizzou I hope?

 

[artradley]

Stupid idea imo. The top guys will meet at B1Gs and Nationals. Sure, we would all like to see Iowa match up with Penn St. and Ohio St., but it isn't the end of the world if they miss each other some years.

This is exactly the attitude I hate -- that the season is meaningless other than racking up seeding criteria. I love dual meets, and from a casual fan perspective a dual meet is about 100x more exciting than a tournament.

Wrestling folks'obsessions with tournaments and dismissal of dual meets is, imo, damaging to the sport.

 

[DonHawkeye]

Ohio State about lost to Purdue. Other than a couple matchups, like every other B1G team has, what is the big deal with missing them?

What if Minnesota pulled out all the guns this year? What if Jackson was a a good coach and ISU was good like they used to be. Would anyone really put NC State at the top of the list this year coming into the season? Or Mizzu last year?

You can have an idea of who the top teams are going to be but you never know 100%. People had an idea that PSU would be really good but even they had a lot of big question marks coming in.

In some of the years past no one would have giving 2 cents if we missed Mich, tOSU and PSU. They would bitched if we didn't have ISU, OSU, Minn, Wisconsin and yes even Mich State on the schedule.

I remember when I was younger and there was not so much coverage it was kinda intriguing going into nationals when some of the top guys never meet.

 

[crablegs1]

Not that I really disagree for say Burak or Clark but I dont think too many matches have been our issue at Nationals. Seems more like too many practices is more wearing them down than a 7 min match. . I could be worng, just really trying to see some different views on this to understand. Then again I dont see any benefit of sitting say Grothus tonight. and I really dont want Burak to sit vs the #1 NAIA guy. It will be a good workout for him.

Do matches mess up peaking? I guess i assumed practice were 90% the issue with peaking, not too many tough matches in Jan or Feb?

And also I feel like we wrestle better at Bigs than NCAA's? Any else think this and wonder why?

The match itself isn't the difficult/draining part. It is everything leading up to and after a match. There is a lot more to a match then just 7 minutes of wrestling. Most teams will have a drill session before weigh ins and then each wrestler will drill/warm up again after making weight. Probably looking at an hour workout combined right there and then the match.

Plus with a meet you have travel, possibly time changes, making weight, travel back. That is all stressful on the body. Much more stressful than a hard 2 hour practice at normal weight and staying at home.

 

[crablegs1]

This is exactly the attitude I hate -- that the season is meaningless other than racking up seeding criteria. I love dual meets, and from a casual fan perspective a dual meet is about 100x more exciting than a tournament.

Wrestling folks'obsessions with tournaments and dismissal of dual meets is, imo, damaging to the sport.

Couldn't agree more. An Iowa PSU dual would be the most exciting thing of the season. We need more emphasis on duals for the fans.

 

[HawCory]

This is exactly the attitude I hate -- that the season is meaningless other than racking up seeding criteria. I love dual meets, and from a casual fan perspective a dual meet is about 100x more exciting than a tournament.

Wrestling folks'obsessions with tournaments and dismissal of dual meets is, imo, damaging to the sport.

I didn't mean to insinuate that the regular season is meaningless. I'm a huge fan of duals as well and would have loved seeing how we stack up at all 10 weights. I'm just saying that Iowa and Penn St. not scheduling each other once in a while is no reason to turn collegiate wrestling into European soccer.

 

[crablegs1]

I didn't mean to insinuate that the regular season is meaningless. I,m a huge fan of duals as well and would have loved seeing how we stack up at all 10 weights. I'm just saying that Iowa and Penn St. not scheduling each other once in a while is no reason to turn collegiate wrestling into European soccer.

What would be so bad about taking an idea from one of the most successful sports organizations in the world? Especially if it means we get to see the best matchups every year.

 

[PSU Mike]

Just what we need - more low scoring matches...

 

[nextmanin]

I have to say I like this idea a lot - courtesy of Carp (he may be an Iowa fan from other posts of his):

------------ snip

There is a way to fix this, but the Big Ten administrative powers won't do it.

Institute a system similar to English Premier League Soccer where there would be two divisions based on where teams finished the previous year (either matches or the tournament). Every year two teams are relegated (drop down) and two advance. This means that there is round robin among the top seven and among the bottom seven. Every team wrestles two matches out of their division. This insures that the best teams routinely wrestle each other. Attendance at these matches (and perhaps among the lower teams) will be enhanced. If, like Michigan State, the chances for advancement appear slim, there is an incentive to improve or, from the AD's point of view, fire the coach.

-------

I am a big soccer fan and promotion/ relegation battles in the major world leagues are full of intrigue and the stakes are enormous. The stakes for the scenario above wouldn't be nearly so high - no one at the bottom of the 2nd group would be relegated to, oh, say the Missouri Valley Conference, but it's still a cool idea.

What do you guys think?

I love the promotion/relegation idea!

 

[texas twister]

Stupid idea imo. The top guys will meet at B1Gs and Nationals. Sure, we would all like to see Iowa match up with Penn St. and Ohio St., but it isn't the end of the world if they miss each other some years.

Could not disagree any more. So far, this season has been boring with only a couple good events (OSU, Nebby, and Midlands). The rest has been uninspiring. I'm certain the fans at Carver have been dismal for Iowa standards. Just not much to get excited about all season long. No one cares to see Iowa beat the little Clones or the whimping Goofers.

 

[anon_hc7hkvtk15hp5]

Why can't the BIG go to the NCAA and get more competition dates? Look at football, they got 2 more games in this year vs what 5 years ago?

 

[sloehawk]

I didn't mean to insinuate that the regular season is meaningless. I'm a huge fan of duals as well and would have loved seeing how we stack up at all 10 weights. I'm just saying that Iowa and Penn St. not scheduling each other once in a while is no reason to turn collegiate wrestling into European soccer.

Anything that resembles anything from Soccer is a bad idea.

The Brands Brothers have been around Iowa City and/or Dan Gable for about 20 years or better now. One would think their preparation mindset would mirror Dan Gable's as much as possible. Perhaps our wrestlers in these "bad" years just aren't as good as their predecessors. It might be as simple as that, and for me it is. Certainly easier than trying to decipher some other version of over-training, under-training, competition levels, when duals occur and a myriad of other speculative reasons.