At her age, I wonder how many Iowa fans thought that she had peaked a few years ago (or maybe 10 years ago).......and would never get a team this far?
Bluder leads team to Final Four in her 23rd year as coach........
- Thread starter perryhawk
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I always felt it was possible. The one thing about Bluders teams is they always peak late, which is a format I wish the mens did. Bluders teams almost always get better as the season progresses.
Bluder won the big ten conference regular season title in 2008 and 2022. Big tournament titles in 2001, 2019, 22 and 23. Big coach of the year in 01, 08 and 2010.
If you’re trying to compare her to Fran, it’s not going to work.
If you’re trying to compare her to Fran, it’s not going to work.
Well, Fran just needs to recruit his men's version of Caitlin Clark and then they'll be in business.
Congratulations to Lisa Bluder and the women's team for their amazing tournament run!
Congratulations to Lisa Bluder and the women's team for their amazing tournament run!
I don't know that you are one of the posters who's "benefit" I was posting for, and I appreciate your response that actually includes some rational thought and information to back it up.
What I am specifically pointing out however, is that posters who make the argument that Fran has "peaked" and that he is never going to get us to a Sweet 16....that they don't know that. Just as I don't know that he ever will. What I do know, and it is demonstrated by Bluder, is that just because it hasn't been done to this point doesn't mean its beyond the possibility of happening.
Iowa women hadn't been to a Final 4 since 1993. Bluder had NEVER accomplished it prior to yesterday/last night. And yet, her and her program did just that for the first time.
Again, for clarity, I'm not saying Fran will get us there....but for anyone to make the argument otherwise....
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let's not forget: have a jan jansen on the bench. She is incredible with bigs.
How many years would you suggest we wait for fran?
Fran has had 30 years of coaching and 0 Sweet 16s. Fran is a mediocre at best coach.
No offense.....But that is comparing apples (Sweet 16) to oranges (Final 4)
Fran had Graza and Keegan and still couldn't coach a team to the second weekend of the NCAA tourney
it's a fundamental issue with his philosophy
And it took Bluder 25 years of coaching at the D-1 level to reach the Sweet 16. I guess Bluder was a mediocre coach until then too
You're forgetting the NCAA Tournament record..........
There's a reason a certain portion of our fanbase had a nickname for her many years.
It might've been because the expectations were just different at the time, but I never felt like Bluder was ever truly in jeopardy of losing her job at Iowa, especially after that regular season title in 2008.
Women's CBB went through some dark ages for a stretch in the 2000s and 2010s where it was the very few haves.....and ALLLLL the other 300+ D1 teams fighting for the same scraps.
Fortunately, over the last few years, parity has slowly begun to grow in D1 Women's CBB. You look at this year alone.
Yeah, you got current powerhouse South Carolina, but even they are technically still "new money". 3 B10 teams made the Elite 8, which either ties a conference record or is a first for the conference, and honestly there's a path where both OSU and Maryland could join Iowa in the F4.
Miami had one of its best seasons ever for the women. Virginia Tech won their first ACC title and is making their first Elite 8 appearance.
Tennessee was a fringe top 25 team this year. UConn will still be UConn as long as Geno is around, and could return to being a title contender if Beuckers stays healthy next year, but even they have begun to take a step back, as clearly evident by their woodshed beating by Ohio State.
But that takes me all the way back to my point on why Bluder was able to keep her job and be allowed the patience to be able to navigate the murky landscape of women's CBB through the years to ultimately have it pay off in year 23 with Iowa's first Final Four appearance in 30 years.
This. Lisa is maximizing her once in a lifetime talent. Garza and Murray aren't close to Clark in a relative sense, but they were still lifetime talents for Iowa and Fran didn't capitalize on it.
As anticipated a number of posters are convinced that Fran can't get us there....and cite a few different reasons for that position. My position is, we don't know that he can't......just like prior to last year the argument was that Fran couldn't win the Big Ten Tournament.....until he did.
Bottom line, moving on from Fran would be a dumb move which would be full of risk and a slim chance for reward.....having been a fan for many years, the experience tells me that it would not be a smart move. Iowa has been a successful program under Fran's leadership.....as fans we all want more....I want more. I think it is certainly possible that Fran can get us further.
Bottom line, moving on from Fran would be a dumb move which would be full of risk and a slim chance for reward.....having been a fan for many years, the experience tells me that it would not be a smart move. Iowa has been a successful program under Fran's leadership.....as fans we all want more....I want more. I think it is certainly possible that Fran can get us further.
maybe focus on her time at iowa instead of mid majors. I haven't heard much sienna talk.
There is far more parity in mens that womens too.
Fran's teams don't play defense. It's like asking Brian to turn Iowa's offense into a perennial top 50 unit. It's not gonna happen at this point, and no amount of recruiting will change that save for throwing bags of money at the elite of the elite and them graciously deciding to choose Iowa over every other school doing the exact same thing, but more than likely with better track records in multiple categories that these recruits and transfers seem to care about in 2023............................
And that goes without even touching your comment about whether or not Iowa could do better than Fran.
Just sayin.
The post I was responding to was literally including Fran's entire head coaching career
I was one of thos
I was one of those folks and I just did not see her putting a team together to make a run. But along came some very good recruits and of course CC. I also believe her coaching has vastly improved especially in the area of taking care of the ball and defense. Glad I was wrong and really really enjoying the women's team.
If he did have a CC equivalent he would sit him on the bench most of the time his first year and he would still play his boys over that player. JMO
If Fran had an Andre Woolridge - or even a Dean Oliver - to complement Keegan and Luka, I'd say with a high degree of confidence that Iowa would have at least one S16 appearance. Maybe even an Elite Eight.
Iowa's problem is a lot like much of the rest of the B1G - too much emphasis on the front court. Mediocre (at best) guard play has been our conference's Achilles heel. K-State's backcourt (and a lot of smaller schools) have guards that can run circles around the B1G's.
Bottom line, if Fran isn’t willing to adjust his coaching to include playing defense to be in the top 75 of that category then there’s no sense in keeping him here to watch the same happen the first 13 years as will happen as the next 13 years. Add in the 12 years at the other schools and he is good enough to get into the tournament and that’s about it. He might as well be named Jim Dorn with his oulay defense.
Good conversation.....I realize no one can GUARANTEE we get someone better than Fran....but, if you had to make the case for someone with a HIGH LIKELYHOOD that they would have us competing for B10 regular season championships and deep tournament runs.....who would be on that list...that we could get?Fran's teams don't play defense. It's like asking Brian to turn Iowa's offense into a perennial top 50 unit. It's not gonna happen at this point, and no amount of recruiting will change that save for throwing bags of money at the elite of the elite and them graciously deciding to choose Iowa over every other school doing the exact same thing, but more than likely with better track records in multiple categories that these recruits and transfers seem to care about in 2023............................
And that goes without even touching your comment about whether or not Iowa could do better than Fran.
Just sayin.
I have made the comment in other threads that if Iowa were to move on from Fran...THEN GO BIG. Pony up the money and get some PROVEN coach.....I like Devries, but in reality is his resume better than Fran's was prior to arriving at Iowa? IF we were going to change coaches get someone who is proven...can we actually do that?
Because if we are going after the Devries level coach.....then I see no reason whatsoever to make the change now.
Since this is turning out to be a Fran discussion, after watching a good chunk of the Sweet 16 games this past weekend I think it's extremely unlikely unless his teams improve a lot on the defensive end. I don't know if that's philosophy, talent, coaching, or whatever, but every team I watched defended very well for 40 minutes. You just can't count on a stretch like the tourney getting and staying hot from 3 against great defenses every game.
Maryland joining the Big Ten gets an assist for the elevation of the Iowa program (and the Big Ten) in mid-to-late Bluder years. Maryland's arrival forced the Big Ten teams to compete with them, or stay left behind. Maryland went 49-3 their first three years in the league, also winning the Big Ten Tourney each year. I also remember OakHawk (?) posting long ago how the Iowa Athletic Dept. was upping its financial commitment to WBB with the arrival of Maryland.
Excepting Maryland's Final Four/Elite Eight in its first Big Ten season (2015), the Big Ten went 16 NCAA tournaments (2006-2022) without a Final Four team, and 9 NCAA tournaments (2010-2018) without an Elite Eight team. In the last 3 tournaments, the Big Ten has 5 different Elite Eight teams (Michigan, IU, Iowa, OSU, MD), and at least 1 Final Four team. A huge improvement.
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WBB has definitely evolved, but it still only requires one (1) superstar player surrounded by a solid cast to give you a chance at a Final Four.
In MBB, you need more ...Drew Timme and Markquis Nowell got my back on that.
In MBB, you need more ...Drew Timme and Markquis Nowell got my back on that.
I think that's the real separation right now between the men and women's game.
The women's game is so much more open right now, while the men's game is shifting towards this narrative that the top teams NEED hounding in your shorts defense that hinders the opponent from being able to breathe, let alone run an up and down style of offense, and when teams are able to do that, then they're chastised for being "bad at defense" if a game gets to the 80s or 90s..................
I have made the comment in other threads that if Iowa were to move on from Fran...THEN GO BIG. Pony up the money and get some PROVEN coach.....I like Devries, but in reality is his resume better than Fran's was prior to arriving at Iowa? IF we were going to change coaches get someone who is proven...can we actually do that?
Because if we are going after the Devries level coach.....then I see no reason whatsoever to make the change now.
I would like to read your response to that perspective....not looking for an argument, just a rational discussion of WHO we could attract that would be as close to a guarantee as we could get...
Exactly, Fran didn't capitalize on it. In this case, capitalizing on it would have required he bring in a tournwy-caliber PG.
Iowa WBB also has something besides a Caitlin Clark. They have Monica 5th year, McKenna 4th year, Kate 5th year and Gabby 4th year, which includes 3 pretty good outside shooters/guard types.
Agreed and they are very cohesive team on and off the floor. But CC, is the major driving force IMO.
Look at where he has coached before Iowa. Not a hotbed of Sweet 16 programs. I felt we should have though with Garza and Keegan. This was not the same caliber of team. It also took some time to rebuild following Lick.
Kudos to Lisa though. The Big was pretty tough. 3 teams in the final 8 and Indiana won the regular season and wasn’t one of them. They were ranked as high as #2 I think.
I would like to see us go the Bo Ryan route. A coach who has dominated at a lower division. Typically the best coaches will win no matter where they are.
The year is 2032. Fran McCaffrey is 73 years old. He is still the coach of Iowa, and has still not reached the Final Four. And there will still be posts saying "Lisa Bluder took even longer than this to get there, so if we fire him now we will but surely go back to the Todd Lickliter days"
All Fran needs to do is bring in a generational GUARD.
Well that’s kinda what Fran did. That’s what Bruce Pearl did….Kinda what Devries is doing?
If we could get a young coach that we KNOW would have the level of success that Bo R has I’m all in…..who is that?
We should bring in John Calipari, Nick Saban, and Cael Sanderson to coach Iowa's top men's sports...................................................just so we can hear them later complain that even they had no idea how hard it was to win here and for no real tangible reason they could ever identify even if they gave away their entire lifetime earnings to the world's top scientists so they could dedicate decades of research towards simply finding out why......
Except I haven’t seen anyone say that we would end up with another Todd L regime…. I don’t think to many National Coaches of the Year could possibly be that bad….
Going out and getting another coach with a record like Fran had prior to Iowa (was very impressive) would guarantee what for us?
I took a few minutes to scrape together a few numbers to compare Fran and Bluder.
Since Fran has been here 13 years, I'll compare his tenure to Bluder's first 13 years, and also a second group for what she has accomplished in years 14+. Overall, the first 13 years are reasonably close, with Bluder being noticably better in-conference (and a regular season title) being the key difference.
Bluder, first 13 years:
251-157 (61.5%) overall
127-87 (59%) in conference
1 conference title
4 NCAA Wins (10 appearances)
0 Sweet 16
Bluder, Years 14-23:
242-90 (72.9%) overall
120-55 (69%) in conference
1 conference title
13 NCAA Wins (8 appearances, counting Covid cancellation)
2 Sweet 16
1 Elite 8
1 Final Four (still playing)
Fran, 13 years:
258-174 (59.7%) overall
123-116 (51.6%) in conference
0 conference titles
4 NCAA Wins (8 appearances, counting Covid cancellation)
0 Sweet 16
Fran, years 14 and on:
?????
Bluder clearly upped her game in the second part of her tenure.
Your move, Fran.
Since Fran has been here 13 years, I'll compare his tenure to Bluder's first 13 years, and also a second group for what she has accomplished in years 14+. Overall, the first 13 years are reasonably close, with Bluder being noticably better in-conference (and a regular season title) being the key difference.
Bluder, first 13 years:
251-157 (61.5%) overall
127-87 (59%) in conference
1 conference title
4 NCAA Wins (10 appearances)
0 Sweet 16
Bluder, Years 14-23:
242-90 (72.9%) overall
120-55 (69%) in conference
1 conference title
13 NCAA Wins (8 appearances, counting Covid cancellation)
2 Sweet 16
1 Elite 8
1 Final Four (still playing)
Fran, 13 years:
258-174 (59.7%) overall
123-116 (51.6%) in conference
0 conference titles
4 NCAA Wins (8 appearances, counting Covid cancellation)
0 Sweet 16
Fran, years 14 and on:
?????
Bluder clearly upped her game in the second part of her tenure.
Your move, Fran.
