I’m not surprised Green resents Fran. Did FMc get into trouble for berating Green in the tunnel after a game a couple years ago?
Broken Record - Officiating is Terrible
- Thread starter IAHawkGrad2000
- Start date
It's too bad the B1G doesn't have more money, so they could train and PAY full time refs.
Maybe they should ask for donations to pay for better refs. LOL
Maybe they should ask for donations to pay for better refs. LOL
I remember one play where their guy had one foot partially in the lane. He was looking a long time for someone to throw the ball to. I replayed it and it started with something like xx.24 seconds on the clock. When he got rid of it, it was .20 seconds. Pretty blatant, I thought. and on a foul on Perkins or Ulis under the basket helping Kris. They both had their arms straight up. Foul! And I suppose many others you all remember too.
I honestly wonder how many officials they actually have to choose from since we see the same dozen guys all over the place?
Why are there not more options?
Part of it is probably because its not really that great of a gig. A lot of on the road and travel and probably pretty difficult to have a real job the other 7 months of the year.
The three I remember the most:
Perkins getting ran over and then Connor getting called for a reach.
Murray getting called for a foul on the lob pass when the player in front of him fell down.
Perkins (I think) getting called for a foul when the Goopher tripped on his own feet. I thought Fran was getting the T here.
The second half started with a lot of banging being allowed on the Iowa side and touch fouls being called on the other. Fran let them know too. Then Iowa got a call on a Gopher illegal screen, which was a good call, but then it went right back as we saw.
I got a kick out of the couple years where they really tried to call the games the way they were meant to be played (more free flowing). They had meetings about it. I remember it hurt MSU and Wisconsin in like December, and it eventually returned to the same bullsh*t by late January.
Bump for the OSU home game...
I got a kick out of the bumping, grabbing, and holding of Murray. Then he is backing down a defender... Only to to have the defender flop backwards for a charge call.
Or Murray driving and 2 different defenders reaching and getting arm... Only to have the ball hit Murray's leg and go out of bounds. OSU ball.
Or an OSU players pump fake Rebraca at the FT line. Rebraca doesn't jump and the proceeds to back up and have his arms straight up. OSU player dives forward with a non-basketball move to initiate contact and throw the ball in the air. Foul #2 on Rebraca
I got a kick out of the bumping, grabbing, and holding of Murray. Then he is backing down a defender... Only to to have the defender flop backwards for a charge call.
Or Murray driving and 2 different defenders reaching and getting arm... Only to have the ball hit Murray's leg and go out of bounds. OSU ball.
Or an OSU players pump fake Rebraca at the FT line. Rebraca doesn't jump and the proceeds to back up and have his arms straight up. OSU player dives forward with a non-basketball move to initiate contact and throw the ball in the air. Foul #2 on Rebraca
Every single offensive foul in this game has been a flop besides the one Perkins drew and that should have just been a no call.
So fvcking sick of watching flopping.
So fvcking sick of watching flopping.
Rebraca has had 3 fouls called on him, and all 3 were NOT fouls. Somehow each call has been worse than the last. Two egregious flops and a bailout shooting foul where the shooter lunged forward into him.
They should come up with a rule that if the defender falls down they get a technical.
I don’t understand how every time a big guy has a guard mismatched on him. The guard can barely get touched, flop and it’s called a charge. Yet when it’s big guy on big guy you can lower the shoulders and ram your way to the hoop and no foul is ever called or if a foul does get called, its usually in the defender who’s taking the pounding.
Yep, and there's still bad calls and blatantly missed calls. There, however, they tend to err on the side of freedom of movement. In CBB, they err on the side of "As long as the guy isn't bleeding, we'll allow it"
Yep, I've mentioned them doing stuff like that before. But they don't stick with it. They need to. Call 60 fouls a game, shoot 75 fts, have 9 guys found out. It will be ugly, and it will take multiple seasons. Long run, the game will be better. Short term, it would be UGLY.
However, it's not like the B1G, or CBB in general, plays an entertaining style of ball, so making it uglier for a year or two wouldn't hurt the overall product.
DO NOT FORGET PAUL SZELC!!(He's an ignorant scoundrel. I disapprove of his very existence)
They should go to the NBA system where coaches are allowed one challenge per game.
Thats been a good addtion to the pro game.
Yes, and reward whoever falls down despite having been instructed to intentionally focus on flopping.
It will get worse. These officials start at the levels where the parents are lunatics. The number of young officials that want to stick it out is dwindling.
Because no one ever yelled at officials before. Jesus Christ. If they don't have the stones to take yelling from the crowd and coaches they are in the wrong line of work.
Are young men really that weak now? Jesus Christ, who wouldn't be embarrassed to say even tell someone that being yelled at by strangers affected their occupational decisions.
Again, ask yourselves the following questions:
Hasn't the BIG officiating been criticized locally and nationally for decades?
Haven't you seen the same terrible officiating for decades?
Isn't any employer supposed to supervise and train employees to meet minimum standards of occupational competency to adequately perform their job.
Isn't it prima facia evidence of approval if the employees don't improve and the employer takes no action to either better train their employees or find new employees?
Then look at the results. Since Iowa's last sole MBB title in 1970, 53 seasons ago, there is little variation in the regular season champs. Won or shared:
Indiana 13, Michigan 8, Purdue 10, Michigan St. 13, T OSU 8, Illinois 7, Wisconsin 5 (an ingénue, none until 2002) Minnesota 1 in the record book and 2 on the court, Maryland 1 and Iowa 1. Fairly predictable results. That predictability increases when you factor in the top 7 teams sharing the titles with each other.
Even more predictability when you add the top 7 teams in order of finish (e.g., not 1st necessarily but the top 5 are very predictable year to year, for decades. Unlike football where numerous, literally dozens of top-level players are necessary to be competitive as few as 1 or 2 guys can completely turn a basketball program around.
Given what is now billions of dollars invested in the Big Ten media rights, what reason is there to believe that the tremendous predictability in the top five, almost guaranteed order of finish, is not created in part by the same officials predictably doing the same things to the same teams every year?
People get murdered over amounts like $500 every day somewhere in this country. The Big Ten cash flows billions of dollars a year. It would be incredibly easy to get a handful of crooked officials, another handful of predictably stupid officials and get the desired results almost every season.
Hasn't the BIG officiating been criticized locally and nationally for decades?
Haven't you seen the same terrible officiating for decades?
Isn't any employer supposed to supervise and train employees to meet minimum standards of occupational competency to adequately perform their job.
Isn't it prima facia evidence of approval if the employees don't improve and the employer takes no action to either better train their employees or find new employees?
Then look at the results. Since Iowa's last sole MBB title in 1970, 53 seasons ago, there is little variation in the regular season champs. Won or shared:
Indiana 13, Michigan 8, Purdue 10, Michigan St. 13, T OSU 8, Illinois 7, Wisconsin 5 (an ingénue, none until 2002) Minnesota 1 in the record book and 2 on the court, Maryland 1 and Iowa 1. Fairly predictable results. That predictability increases when you factor in the top 7 teams sharing the titles with each other.
Even more predictability when you add the top 7 teams in order of finish (e.g., not 1st necessarily but the top 5 are very predictable year to year, for decades. Unlike football where numerous, literally dozens of top-level players are necessary to be competitive as few as 1 or 2 guys can completely turn a basketball program around.
Given what is now billions of dollars invested in the Big Ten media rights, what reason is there to believe that the tremendous predictability in the top five, almost guaranteed order of finish, is not created in part by the same officials predictably doing the same things to the same teams every year?
People get murdered over amounts like $500 every day somewhere in this country. The Big Ten cash flows billions of dollars a year. It would be incredibly easy to get a handful of crooked officials, another handful of predictably stupid officials and get the desired results almost every season.
Speaking of Terrible Officiating, I think I saw Courtney Green officiating a game in Texas or out West. Keep him there. Remember the Indiana game of a year ago.
SIAposted, but some of you may remember the play late in the last OSU game where Murry beat his man, was driving down the left side of the lane, his defender reached around from behind and the side to grab if not bump him, a second defender helped and bumped Kris from the left, and the guy under the basket got his body into Kris. When the ball bounced off Kris's leg the only call was out of bounds to OSU, Kris was beyond incredulous. that one play says it all as to how the refs keep letting teams bang him around.
Another reason he needs to stuff every shot at the rim if he physically can because he is going to get contacted
Another reason he needs to stuff every shot at the rim if he physically can because he is going to get contacted
Send all officials to an officiating class which will include film reviews of basketball most likely before shot clocks and 3 point line. You'll see officials calling these things:
1. Over the back. This includes, especially, the common act of coming in from behind and swatting at the ball when a rebounder has good poistion and about to grab the rebound....resulting in the ball flying out of bounds and the guy that swatted the ball (the over the back fouler) immediately jumps in officials face pointing his direction ...and then official obliges and awards the ball that direction. Makes no sense guy about to grab a rebound is not swatting the ball out of bounds for God sake!
2. You won't find anyone Flopping back then, because it was a contact sport at times and the big guys underneath pushed and backed into each other (not ramming) and unless a guy hacked them on the shot, there was no foul called and defenders rarely were seen on the floor on their backs. Likewise common sense was the barometer for an official call charging....usually it was blantant head down ramming into someone...not a matter of whether they fell down or not. Then of course with flopper on the floor, requires the entire team to rush to his rescue and help them up.
3. Allowing defenders their space...yes they had rights once - their verticality and chest to chest is good defense.
4. Moving picks not called near enough.
5. Palming the ball - yep since Jordan this has been accepted dribbling and should not be.
This is official unrelated, but please can it be stopped on FT shots whether a guy misses or makes it having to slap every teammates hand before shooting the next one. Also I'm pretty sure nce upon a time you were not allowed to be distracting to the foul shooter once they are ready to shoot...like waving hands and pointing and yelling stuff just as they are about to shoot.
1. Over the back. This includes, especially, the common act of coming in from behind and swatting at the ball when a rebounder has good poistion and about to grab the rebound....resulting in the ball flying out of bounds and the guy that swatted the ball (the over the back fouler) immediately jumps in officials face pointing his direction ...and then official obliges and awards the ball that direction. Makes no sense guy about to grab a rebound is not swatting the ball out of bounds for God sake!
2. You won't find anyone Flopping back then, because it was a contact sport at times and the big guys underneath pushed and backed into each other (not ramming) and unless a guy hacked them on the shot, there was no foul called and defenders rarely were seen on the floor on their backs. Likewise common sense was the barometer for an official call charging....usually it was blantant head down ramming into someone...not a matter of whether they fell down or not. Then of course with flopper on the floor, requires the entire team to rush to his rescue and help them up.
3. Allowing defenders their space...yes they had rights once - their verticality and chest to chest is good defense.
4. Moving picks not called near enough.
5. Palming the ball - yep since Jordan this has been accepted dribbling and should not be.
This is official unrelated, but please can it be stopped on FT shots whether a guy misses or makes it having to slap every teammates hand before shooting the next one. Also I'm pretty sure nce upon a time you were not allowed to be distracting to the foul shooter once they are ready to shoot...like waving hands and pointing and yelling stuff just as they are about to shoot.
#5 actually started with Magic Johnson.
To add to your last paragraph, the players were not allowed to even question an official's call. Nowadays, there is always that incredulous look before the arms being extended as to "wtf, ref?".
So tired of the no calls when it comes to either a charge or a flop.
Either the offender charged the defender or the defender flopped. It wasn't nothing!
Or the no call on the perimeter shooter who falls down after a defender flies at them or past them. Its a FLOP, so call it! That or the defender fouled the shooter. Again, its one or the other.
Either the offender charged the defender or the defender flopped. It wasn't nothing!
Or the no call on the perimeter shooter who falls down after a defender flies at them or past them. Its a FLOP, so call it! That or the defender fouled the shooter. Again, its one or the other.
Do remember the t shirts with herky hanging bain? That takes some doing to be hated for decades but as you mentioned it was a concerted effort by a few refs. Have no idea other than maybe some tapes and written complaints to the big 10 to turn that kind of open joke of officiating. And the pudgy ref mentioned above is the worst official this year by a ways. He deserves some kind of worst official recognition after the season.
Flops have become ridiculous over the last couple months and watching TJD from Indiana yesterday every screen he did was moving and a foul but wasn't called once. And agree that the Minnesota player jumping into fp was a joke. Pane had 4 fouls and watched him commit 3 fouls on 1 defensive possession and no calls. It was a joke. 2nd half was some seriously terrible officiating. Hopefully we see some decent reffing today.
Another HUGE pet peeve of mine about officiating.
Watching a dunker use his hand to grab and hold/move a defender's arm so his dunk doesn't get swatted but they call the foul on the defender.
Reese just did that to Griesel in the MD@NEB game, and Griesel whistled for the foul.
Watching a dunker use his hand to grab and hold/move a defender's arm so his dunk doesn't get swatted but they call the foul on the defender.
Reese just did that to Griesel in the MD@NEB game, and Griesel whistled for the foul.
Great Post!
Your opening sentence there was an example last night when Courtney Green (CG) did not call Northwestern for failure to get the ball past midcourt in 10 seconds. Northwestern took the ball down the court and made a lay up. Then, Fran went ballistic and received a double technical from CG and he was tossed from the game. The play It resulted in a two point lay up, by the best FT shooter in the Big Ten making the 4 FT for the double technical, plus Northwestern got the ball. I don't remember but if they scored in that possession after the FT's but if they did the total point swing was 6 points for sure and either 8 or 9 point swing depending if they made a shot on that possession. After a TV break the Steve Bardo and the man calling the game showed that Northwestern should have been called for exceeding 10 seconds getting the ball past midcourt. They said Fran had a reason for going ballistic, because the replay showed Northwestern exceeded 10 seconds. They explained the 10 seconds continues until the player who was in the front court receiving the ball touch the ball, not when the ball in the air crosses the midcourt stripe. It should be a TV review, just like at the end of a game, did the shooter release the ball on a shot that went in.
Courtney Green should never be allowed to officiate a Big Ten game. He screwed Iowa a year ago at Indiana when he called a foul on Iowa with a fraction of a second left in a tie game when the officials basically swallowed their whistles for the last minute or so until good old incompetent Courtney Green called a foul on a play where there was less contact than had been going on for the closing minute and nothing called. I was at Breslin in January where CG officiated and listening to an MSU adult fan behind me get on CG the entire game. Saying the MSU fan did not Courtney is an understatement.
On your last paragraph, I saw a TV game this past week where the Purdue squad of girls on the end line were shaking their PomPoms with their arms raised while an opposing player was shooting a Free Throw, that was bush league.
Is that CG’s call to make? If was at mid court he would not have a shot clock in his line of sight. I thought the trail official was responsible for that call.
The point is it should be a reviewable call as when a shot is made at the end if the call they go to TV replay and run it in slow motion or stop action frame by frame to tell whether the ball left his had before the time had expired. Fran would not have had to go ballistic and thus no technical, the uncontested lay up would have been erased and no 6 to possible 9 point swing. could have altered the outcome of the game. A long shot but could have. The half court issue is probably less frequent than end of game shot release calls. Would have minimal affect on length of game and it would certainly make officials let the play go on and only reversed if replay showed whether the play was was called correctly or not.
I see people are getting things off their chest about officiating so I will too. Two more calls they miss on a regular basis is tapping the ball or catching the ball after a made basket……and the cross over by moving the ball two different directions.
Courtney Green is corrupt. He routinely makes those kinds of calls that have enormous impact on the games he officiates. Year in and year out.
Like I said above, you don't need every official to be crooked or predictably stupid. You just need a few. That's why Courtney Green keeps his job.
It's especially hard to take when the calls are designed to deflect criticism of a legitimately dishonest bit of officiating (there is a clock, it shows the "blown" call). There's a dead ball to review the monitor or look at the official clock but no-Courtney Green throws a T from twenty feet away that kills Iowa's momentum, such as it was, and you've got Iowa no where near second place. Oddly enough, that coincides with the Big Ten not wanting Iowa in second place, but there are some teams tied with Iowa.
You can imagine the officiating NW will get here on out, however. The Big Ten doesn't want them in second place either.
Like I said above, you don't need every official to be crooked or predictably stupid. You just need a few. That's why Courtney Green keeps his job.
It's especially hard to take when the calls are designed to deflect criticism of a legitimately dishonest bit of officiating (there is a clock, it shows the "blown" call). There's a dead ball to review the monitor or look at the official clock but no-Courtney Green throws a T from twenty feet away that kills Iowa's momentum, such as it was, and you've got Iowa no where near second place. Oddly enough, that coincides with the Big Ten not wanting Iowa in second place, but there are some teams tied with Iowa.
You can imagine the officiating NW will get here on out, however. The Big Ten doesn't want them in second place either.
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