But....but......we don't need voter ID laws.........

[Lone Clone]

Maybe we only need them in these 141 counties that have more registered "voters" than live people in them.

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/08/2...ave-more-registered-voters-than-people-alive/

 

[Vroom_C14]

If we have to have an ID to drive, buy cigarettes, alcohol and write a check. Why do we not have to have an ID to do one of the most important things in this country?

 

[BABiscuit]

Seems like a voter registration problem not a voter ID problem.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Seems like a voter registration problem not a voter ID problem.

Do you have to provide an ID when you register?

 

[fredjr82]

If we have to have an ID to drive, buy cigarettes, alcohol and write a check. Why do we not have to have an ID to do one of the most important things in this country?

Do you also agree that everyone should have to buy health insurance like car insurance, home owners insurance, etc? If not you're a hypocrite to take that stance.

 

[TJ8869]

Seems like a voter registration problem not a voter ID problem.

It's both. If there are people registered illegally in that county then requiring ID at the polls will prevent them from voting illegally.

 

[ANYCHawk]

If we have to have an ID to drive, buy cigarettes, alcohol and write a check. Why do we not have to have an ID to do one of the most important things in this country?

Privileges versus rights how does it work?

 

[BABiscuit]

It's both. If there are people registered illegally in that county then requiring ID at the polls will prevent them from voting illegally.

I guess that depends. Do voter ID laws require an ID with a matching address? If not, how will that prevent somebody that is listed on the roll from voting?

 

[BABiscuit]

Do you have to provide an ID when you register?

I don't know the rules in all 50 states. In Iowa, it looks like you would have to for same day voter registration unless you can get a registered voter to vouch for you. For early registration, it looks like the form requires ID numbers, but I don't think you physically have to take an ID.

I don't think the issue in most of these areas are from people registering to vote when they aren't eligible. More than likely the counties aren't purging those that have left or died.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Privileges versus rights how does it work?

It's a privilege to have the right to vote.

 

[ANYCHawk]

It's a privilege to have the right to vote.

 

[naturalmwa]

Other countries solve this pretty easily with some fun purple ink they put on their fingers. How about we go low tech and solve this issue? Could it be that solving this issue isn't the real issue?

Electoral stain typically contains a pigment for instant recognition, and silver nitrate which stains the skin on exposure to ultraviolet light, leaving a mark that is impossible to wash off and is only removed as external skin cells are replaced. Industry standard electoral inks contain 10%, 14% or 18% silver nitrate solution, depending on the length of time the mark is required to be visible. Although normally water-based, electoral stains occasionally contain a solvent such as alcohol to allow for faster drying, especially when used with dipping bottles, which may also contain a biocide to ensure bacteria aren't transferred from voter to voter.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Do you also agree that everyone should have to buy health insurance like car insurance, home owners insurance, etc? If not you're a hypocrite to take that stance.

Do those require an ID to purchase?

 

[Vroom_C14]

Explain how that was a miss - Is it not a privilege to live in the US legally?

 

[naturalmwa]

Explain how that was a miss - Is it not a privilege to live in the US legally?

For reals?!?!?!

 

[ANYCHawk]

Explain how that was a miss - Is it not a privilege to live in the US legally?

I'm not getting into a stupid philosophical discussion about being lucky to be born somewhere. That was not the point of this thread nor your initial response. It's spelled out the constitution that there is a right to vote there is no right listed in that thing that you can drive an automobile or to buy cigarettes.

 

[Vroom_C14]

I'm not getting into a stupid philosophical discussion about being lucky to be born somewhere. That was not the point of this thread nor your initial response. It's spelled out the constitution that there is a right to vote there is no right listed in that thing that you can drive an automobile or to buy cigarettes.

And what does that Right to vote stem from? Nothing philosophical about it, either you are legally a citizen of the USA and have the Right to vote, or not.

My point is that it is required to have ID to do simple day-to-day stuff, but not to do something that is vital in this country - legally vote.

I am up for discussion on right\wrong of my responses - but if it's going to turn into a name slinging then I will move on. Thanks.

 

[Foxclone]

Do you also agree that everyone should have to buy health insurance like car insurance, home owners insurance, etc? If not you're a hypocrite to take that stance.

No apples to oranges. You are talking private business vs Gov business. And since you brought up health insurance, you do have to provide id for Obama care. Why is that?

 

[ANYCHawk]

My point is that it is required to have ID to do simple day-to-day stuff, but not to do something that is vital in this country - legally vote.
.

And again I refer you back to my original response. The things you listed are privileges. They are not rights. I hate that we have to give a simple civics/history lesson, but rights don't come from anything. They are given just for the fact you are alive ("the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle them")

 

[Vroom_C14]

And again I refer you back to my original response. The things you listed are privileges. They are not rights. I hate that we have to give a simple civics/history lesson, but rights don't come from anything. They are given just for the fact you are alive ("the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle them")

I understand rights are given when you are born - and some of those rights are given based on your citizenship. It appears the constitution differs with you on the "rights given" as the constitution specifies the right to vote for citizens (with your inference of being born here).

I'll just agree to disagree.

 

[ANYCHawk]

I understand rights are given when you are born - and some of those rights are given based on your citizenship. It appears the constitution differs with you on the "rights given" as the constitution specifies the right to vote for citizens (with your inference of being born here).

I'll just agree to disagree.

So you think driving is a right?

 

[Lone Clone]

Guys and gals, this isn't all that complicated.

Yes, it's probably a voter registration problem. But it opens the door wide for voter fraud. If you can't see that....well, if you can't see that, let me explain.

Let's say I want to vote twice. I go to my precinct and cast my vote (some people don't think I should have to go to any specific precinct, but that's another subject). Then, having discovered that Joe Blow in another precinct has died or moved to Omaha, I go to his precinct, say I'm Joe Blow, and vote again. If I had to show an ID, that wouldn't be possible unless I actually had a fake ID, which is highly unlikely.

I have told this story before, but I'll tell it again......a few years ago, when I was still working, I was one of several employees who attended a "meet and greet" type affair in Decorah. We had these things in outlying communities fairly frequently. Gave us a chance to meet readers, answer questions about the paper, get suggestions and criticisms, that kind of thing.

In this case, it was shortly after an election and we had carried a post-election story about voter turnout. The supervisor of elections complained -- in a very nice way -- that the statistics made them look worse than they really were because there were thousands -- her word -- of people listed as registered voters who no longer lived there. Mostly these were students and faculty from Luther who had registered while living there, and remained on the rolls even though they had long since departed.

This wasn't an attempt at fraud, of course. But it created a tremendous potential for fraud -- one that could have simply and effectively been eliminated by requiring ID at the polls.

Voter ID aside, the registration lists need to be monitored and cleansed regularly. Unfortunately, when somebody tries to do that, they get accused of trying to deprive people of their franchise. And in fairness, that sometimes happens. But again, requiring ID would address that problem without disenfranchising anyone.

The crucial factor, as both common sense and the courts say, is that the ID must be easy to obtain and free.

 

[fredjr82]

No apples to oranges. You are talking private business vs Gov business. And since you brought up health insurance, you do have to provide id for Obama care. Why is that?

Yes you do which with Obama's statements about health care being a right, you shouldn't have to provide identification just like you shouldn't have to provide one to vote.

What do you tell these people when they go to vote? Sorry?

 

[thewop]

I have never seen a good argument against Voter ID. ID's are not expensive, and if that's really an issue, then by all means let's make opportunity to obtain them for free ample. I do not believe a reasonable argument exists, and in this thread I still haven't seen one.

Why, would anyone be against it? Frankly, I don't even understand why this is a partisan issue. Everyone should be for doing everything we can to ensure an honest election.

 

[BABiscuit]

I have never seen a good argument against Voter ID. ID's are not expensive, and if that's really an issue, then by all means let's make opportunity to obtain them for free ample. I do not believe a reasonable argument exists, and in this thread I still haven't seen one.

Why, would anyone be against it? Frankly, I don't even understand why this is a partisan issue. Everyone should be for doing everything we can to ensure an honest election.

If the right agreed to provide free govt ID's to anybody needing one and did not restrict the IDs so that they were only valid for voting and agreed to provide transportation to and from the ID location and also agreed to pay for any other papers needed to obtain the ID (such as reprints of social security cards) and also set-up a traveling IDmobile that went around to different areas multiple times offering free IDs to residents, then I could get on board with voter ID.

 

[fredjr82]

I have never seen a good argument against Voter ID. ID's are not expensive, and if that's really an issue, then by all means let's make opportunity to obtain them for free ample. I do not believe a reasonable argument exists, and in this thread I still haven't seen one.

Why, would anyone be against it? Frankly, I don't even understand why this is a partisan issue. Everyone should be for doing everything we can to ensure an honest election.

Who's going to make sure those that don't have the ability to obtain one, gets one? Are those people that don't have the ability to get one not allowed to vote until they do? Are you willing to take away a person's right because, for whatever reason, they can't get an ID? Answer that question because I see that as a huge deal.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Anyone who is against voter IDs would be better served to go out and help people without IDs obtain one. That would solve that problem. That being said, LC's posts seems to point out a bigger problem, that of people no longer residing in certain areas who are still registered in those areas. Seems like it would be easy to vote in more that one area.

 

[cigaretteman]

My view on this topic is that it's one that's been over politicized by both sides. While I don't truly believe voter fraud is as much of a problem as purported by those on the right, I also think that the difficulty of obtaining an ID is overstated by those on the left. It's just another one of those issues that both sides have staked out their positions on and will not be swayed away from them.

 

[fredjr82]

Anyone who is against voter IDs would be better served to go out and help people without IDs obtain one

Why would those against it have to perform that task? Our way works today (a few people don't think so) so the burden (in my opinion) falls squarely on those that want everyone to have a voter ID in order to vote. Make sure everyone has one so its fair for everyone. Of course voter ID isn't really about corrupt elections, its so the people that vote Democrat have an obstacle in their way in order to cast their vote.

 

[hawkguy77]

Yes you do which with Obama's statements about health care being a right, you shouldn't have to provide identification just like you shouldn't have to provide one to vote.

What do you tell these people when they go to vote? Sorry?

I would inform them of the steps needed to obtain an ID and tell them to return when they have proof of who they are and that they are in fact eligible to vote.

 

[theiacowtipper]

If the right agreed to provide free govt ID's to anybody needing one and did not restrict the IDs so that they were only valid for voting and agreed to provide transportation to and from the ID location and also agreed to pay for any other papers needed to obtain the ID (such as reprints of social security cards) and also set-up a traveling IDmobile that went around to different areas multiple times offering free IDs to residents, then I could get on board with voter ID.

Some states that require voter ID provide one free of charge. I believe Texas comes to mind. If the states provides the ID free of any cost, and that includes a charge to look up or obtain the necessary documents, then I don't have a problem with it.

In return, how about the right agree to remove artificial barriers to voting that they have constructed. How about true extended voting hours? The offices are open anyway, let voters come in up to 30 days before the election to vote in person. Throw in some evening or weekend hours. Many states do it and it can't be that expensive. How about additional polling places? Allow people to vote at banks and post offices. They are used to handling relatively high stakes transactions. How about universally returning suffrage to convicted felons who have completed their sentence and made restitution?
The right seems to be focused on limiting the number of voters in the name of voter ID. Fine, let's ensure only eligible voters vote, and only once. In return, let's make it easier for citizens with the right to vote, to cast that ballot.

 

[hawkitd]

Yes you do which with Obama's statements about health care being a right, you shouldn't have to provide identification just like you shouldn't have to provide one to vote.

What do you tell these people when they go to vote? Sorry?

Consider the source of the information

 

[hawkeye54545]

Yes you do which with Obama's statements about health care being a right, you shouldn't have to provide identification just like you shouldn't have to provide one to vote.

What do you tell these people when they go to vote? Sorry?

It's a simple fix. Put a booth up at Walmart or the welfare office where these people can get their ID.

 

[thewop]

If the right agreed to provide free govt ID's to anybody needing one and did not restrict the IDs so that they were only valid for voting and agreed to provide transportation to and from the ID location and also agreed to pay for any other papers needed to obtain the ID (such as reprints of social security cards) and also set-up a traveling IDmobile that went around to different areas multiple times offering free IDs to residents, then I could get on board with voter ID.

I like many of your ideas. Free ID's are a no brainer to me. Generally it's about $4-6 to get just an ID (not a driver's license) at the DMV, this should be waived given some qualifications. Also, there are plenty of groups volunteering to get people to the polls, I think this is already a non-issue (nor related to ID's). Regarding all the other documentation required, here's my thought. I would support lessening of the required documentation. I let my drivers license expire once, and trying to prove my existence again was ridiculous. However, if people can't keep their lives together enough to be able to provide enough documentation to get an ID, do we want them deciding the future of the country? I don't. I love the idea of the IDmobile. We, as taxpayers, should be happy to fund programs to make getting ID's easier and less costly.

To me, we just need to find a way to make it happen. Remove the questions.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

If you can register to vote you can get a free voter ID while you are there. Not complicated. I know several living people who don't vote, wouldn't be hard to go vote in their place and vote several times if I was up to it and willing to do something illegal. And it would be very difficult if not impossible to catch me or even notice.

 

[stillh8unlv]

As stated before, getting a voter ID should be simple - so simple that these morons that it's supposedly going to make it so difficult to vote, can do it.

After all isn't that's what's best for the country - masses of uninformed dipshits electing the next leader of the free world?

 

[thewop]

Who's going to make sure those that don't have the ability to obtain one, gets one? Are those people that don't have the ability to get one not allowed to vote until they do? Are you willing to take away a person's right because, for whatever reason, they can't get an ID? Answer that question because I see that as a huge deal.

See my response to BABiscuit, however, one thought on this chart is: What % of these people vote currently? How many people is that actually? I would guess that of all these groups, they are already less likely to vote than the average (So if 30% of African Americans vote overall, then it's likely that only 15% of the 25% who don't have ID's would vote). So while I absolutely believe we should find a way for everyone to have an ID (99% of people are capable of getting one on their own, even if they don't already have one), I doubt the actual impact on an election is even close to what this chart suggests.

 

[fredjr82]

Consider the source of the information

Feel free to find more accurate statistics that will give you peace of mind.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Who's going to make sure those that don't have the ability to obtain one, gets one? Are those people that don't have the ability to get one not allowed to vote until they do? Are you willing to take away a person's right because, for whatever reason, they can't get an ID? Answer that question because I see that as a huge deal.

Who

So you think driving is a right?

Do you think we should not have driver licenses?

 

[cigaretteman]

As stated before, getting a voter ID should be simple - so simple that these morons that it's supposedly going to make it so difficult to vote, can do it.

After all isn't that's what's best for the country - masses of uninformed dipshits electing the next leader of the free world?

Doesn't that pretty much describe every U.S. election though?