By my count, 14-31 in games of 5 points, less or OT.

[hawk-i bob]

We are!?!?!?

http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/iowa-m-baskbl-sched.html

Looks like 1-2 to me. We lost by six to Notre Dame and I know we aren't dumb enough to count Exhibition games. I don't get why we forget about the FSU game.

the florida st game doesn't fit.....it would be interesting to see what Lute's win % was in the same time as Fran's 1st 180 games. that is wins and losses in that 5 pt range.

I remember we lost 3 straight in the B1G late in the season to lose out on the Big Ten championship...I believe all of them were by less than 5. Was that 1982?

 

[DanL53]

That's fine but making a statistical statement is quantifiable. When you pick and choose the years to compare for one coach (Fran) but take the whole picture for the others, that is just not a comparable statement.

How about we leave out last year for Fran? In that case, Fran is only 30-42 in the BIG as head coach. See how I painted a different picture?

Comparative analysis involves using the same period of time or duration of time to compare two or more different things? If you want the use the entire career at Iowa of one coach, you need to do the same for the others.

Have you ever done an employee evaluation? Let me ask. Would you do one on Fran based on all five years? How about five years from now, would you do it on all ten years?

 

[DanL53]

the florida st game doesn't fit.....it would be interesting to see what Lute's win % was in the same time as Fran's 1st 180 games. that is wins and losses in that 5 pt range.

I remember we lost 3 straight in the B1G late in the season to lose out on the Big Ten championship...I believe all of them were by less than 5. Was that 1982?

Yes, I believe it was.

 

[starbrown]

the florida st game doesn't fit.....it would be interesting to see what Lute's win % was in the same time as Fran's 1st 180 games. that is wins and losses in that 5 pt range.

I remember we lost 3 straight in the B1G late in the season to lose out on the Big Ten championship...I believe all of them were by less than 5. Was that 1982?

This begs the question, what's more important, how a coach starts or how he finishes?

Right now people should feel good about Frans rebuilding project. But some people really show their bball knowledge when they suggest Lute and Fran are equals. It's like the guy comparing Roy Williams to Fran in a different thread LOL.

IMO this year should end with an NCAA invite. So far it looks promising.

 

[DanL53]

This begs the question, what's more important, how a coach starts or how he finishes?

Right now people should feel good about Frans rebuilding project. But some people really show their bball knowledge when they suggest Lute and Fran are equals. It's like the guy comparing Roy Williams to Fran in a different thread LOL.

IMO this year should end with an NCAA invite. So far it looks promising.

Good stuff coming from a guy who thinks Uthoff, Woody and Gesell were higher ranked by ESPN than Cook, C. McCaffery and Joe Wieskamp. Oh and, my statement was that in the last three years McCaffery's Big Ten mark has been comparable to Dr. Tom and Lute Olson, which is entirely true. That by no means is a suggestion that Lute and Fran are equals.

 

[starbrown]

Are you saying future recruits are ranked higher than Woody/Gesell/Uthoff were across the board?

Proof? Link? Oh, I forgot. I just have to take your word when you announce subjective opinions as facts. Hubris anyone?

Hey, if you want to make a prediction, that's fine. But people are predicting Iowa will take a step backwards next year. Kinda throws a monkey wrench into your theory that next year's team will have more talent.

 

[DanL53]

I didn't poo poo them. I said they were odd looking. Here they are:

UTHOFF 92

WOODBURY 95

GESELL 92

cook 86

connor mccaffery 87

weiskamp 90

patrick (couldn't find a rating for him, help a brother out someone)

Yep, they were odd looking. ESPN you say? You took the evaluation scores!? Now I get it. I'd help you out here and give you some information but that's gonna cost you some effort to post respectfully and maybe later I'll come back and help you out, if I remember.

As to Patrick? Trust me, top 100 recruit. And I'm not talking evaluation scores.

I am definitely saving this stuff incase starbrown tries to weasel out of it. Let's all remember, Uthoff and Gesell and Woody were rated higher by ESPN than Cook, C.McCaffery and Joe Wieskamp. We can trust the highly self-edumacated Jethro Bodine...I mean, starbrown, for that information!

 

[PhantomFlyer]

He tends to only use quantifiable facts when they support his argument. This is the over the top aspect of his posting that I have referenced.

It's his modus operandi. He has selective memory. You can even quote him and he'll deny he ever made the comment. Agree with him and he loves you, disagree with him and he'll eventually put you on ignore.

I wish I would have copy and pasted his summer evaluation of the freshman class. Goodness, you would have thought Iowa had a Chris Webber fab five class coming in. Oh, he'll deny it now but he was so over the top. BTW, I like this freshman class, but like I said during those exchanges, the hype needed to be toned down so they weren't up against unreasonable expectations. They will be good players but it's going to take time for them to adjust to the college game.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

That's fine but making a statistical statement is quantifiable. When you pick and choose the years to compare for one coach (Fran) but take the whole picture for the others, that is just not a comparable statement.

How about we leave out last year for Fran? In that case, Fran is only 30-42 in the BIG as head coach. See how I painted a different picture?

Comparative analysis involves using the same period of time or duration of time to compare two or more different things? If you want the use the entire career at Iowa of one coach, you need to do the same for the others.

What he's doing drives me nuts. Baseball fans do it all the time. "Oh, throw out his poor Apr and he was a .300 hitter". You can't do that. Dan loves to cherry pick his stats.

The other reason the comparison fails is we have unbalanced schedules now, and you didn't back when Lute was coaching. You played every Big Ten team twice. The other thing is you've added 4 teams to the conference, only one has had any basketball history of winning. PSU, Neb, and Rutgers have mostly been bottom dwellers. You had probably 2 crappy programs when Lute was at Iowa - Northwestern and Wis.

Dan tried to do the same thing with the games decided by 5 pts or less. He wants to throw out years that don't help fit his narrative. Then he tries to take small sample sizes (4-5 games in a year) and use those individual season records to show a "trend" that improvement has been made in this area. Any statistician would shake their head in disbelief at how he's using these numbers to make his case.

 

[Vbeachawk]

Yes Dan, the exhibition loss was still a loss, even tho it didn't count, which I included on purpose. When was the last time an Iowa team lost an exhibition game.

To me the sad part about this record is that when plays are drawn up by Fran after time outs, more often than not, Iowa scores........Fran is very good at getting his guys to be successful coming out of time outs.....much more so than any other coach I can recall over the years. Yet, Fran still doesn't want to call to's at critical times.

 

[HawkLogic]

I guess Fran has better record than Minnesota in close games.

I'm happy with what Fran has achieved coming into this season. This season looks to be a little frustrating/little bit short of hopes.

I am concerned about next year and

 

[HawkeyeDenny]

It's really simple...we need a true point guard who can penetrate, shoot from the outside better and hit clutch free throws down the stretch...Fran hasn't had one yet, but partly his fault for not getting one...what average to above average HD kid doesn't think he can beat out Gesell or Clemons at the point...??

 

[hawk-i bob]

It's really simple...we need a true point guard who can penetrate, shoot from the outside better and hit clutch free throws down the stretch...Fran hasn't had one yet, but partly his fault for not getting one...what average to above average HD kid doesn't think he can beat out Gesell or Clemons at the point...??[/QUOTE]

average to above average...wow thats' a nice objective comment...let me see that would put our two at below average to really below average?
So I'll answer your ??
Marquette's Duane Wilson & Haanif Cheatham ...you really don't want to compare the stats.
Florida States' Rathan-Mayes ...5 assist 5 turnovers..

want me to keep going?

Nope neither Gesell or Clemmons are as talented as some of the points they play against. That doesn't mean they can't play...and have done just that...OH maybe those other guys just had an off night and Gesell / Clemmons just got lucky?

Yep the Iowa team & coach blew the ISU game.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Winning in close games is more about 1:1 matchups (yes, luck factors in as well). Typically late game scenarios entail one guy beating his guy off the bounce and getting to the rim or kicking out to an open shooter. We don't have, and haven't had, that one guy since Dean Oliver. Watch UW-Milwaukee's PG and tell me he wouldn't look good on this squad or insert the name of almost any MV, Horizon, etc., team.

It is not that hard to recruit a PG who would be an upgrade. I don't care if the PG can't throw it in the ocean from 3. Find somebody who is quick, can defend, and has the ability to be shifty in the lane.

 

[hawk-i bob]

Winning in close games is more about 1:1 matchups (yes, luck factors in as well), but it typically entails one guy beating his guy off the bounce an getting to the rim or kicking out to an open shooter. We don't have. and haven't had, that one guy since maybe Dean Oliver. Watch UW-Milwaukee's PG and tell me he wouldn't look good on this squad or insert the name of almost any MV, Horizon, etc., team. It is not that hard to recruit a PG who would be an upgrade.

so that means Marquette's point guards are what? or Florida St's? can they be compared to MVC or Horizon? I'm missing something...the same Iowa guards you are referring kick the crap out of BigEast/ACC point guards and then they don't even standup to MVC or Horizon league points?

..its not that hard to figure out our guys cant win..even when they do. It doesn't work one way...

 

[srams21]

Winning in close games is more about 1:1 matchups (yes, luck factors in as well). Typically late game scenarios entail one guy beating his guy off the bounce and getting to the rim or kicking out to an open shooter. We don't have, and haven't had, that one guy since Dean Oliver. Watch UW-Milwaukee's PG and tell me he wouldn't look good on this squad or insert the name of almost any MV, Horizon, etc., team.

It is not that hard to recruit a PG who would be an upgrade. I don't care if the PG can't throw it in the ocean from 3. Find somebody who is quick, can defend, and has the ability to be shifty in the lane.

That's going a bit overboard. Gesell runs the offense just fine. His problem is that he isn't a scorer or shooter. He is shooting just 39% from the field this year. He is fairly quick and shifty but has trouble finishing at times and makes poor decisions in the clutch. Your assessment that we need a quick, shifty, poor shooting point guard isn't what I would want. We had one like that last year ... Trey Dickerson.

 

[DanL53]

Like Ohio State's great guards last year?

I'm not going to try to claim that Gesell is perfect. But the young man will leave Iowa having been a four year starter on a team that so far under his watch is 74-40. Mike does many things well and among them he apparently helps win ball games. And if we are going to complain about McCaffery and his perceived inability to land a point guard? Why then are we complaining about the rare one who wanted to be a Hawkeye despite this Ogre that Fran McCaffery must be?

Suggestion, if anyone can find the time (And please, to some...first learn how to read player evaluations from scouting services so you understand what those funny little numbers mean before you spout off and make a fool of yourself.) So again, for folks with the time and who have already done their rudimentary homework, there is a good documentary called "Nash". The Title subject is Steve Nash, two time NBA Most Valuable Player.

The flick covers some issues often brought up on boards like this one.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Fair points. Marquette is a very young team that will improve. We tried to give the FSU game away at the end, but a W is a W and yes, we won with Gesell and Clemmons.

I just hoped for more after investing 4 years in Gesell and Clemmons. We should be better in late game situations, not status quo or worse and we should not be facing a leadership void. We are not blessed with an abundance of slasher / driver types, which puts more emphasis on PG when we need to get spot up shooters open. Just my two cents.