Capitalism; Why is it thought of so highly?
- Thread starter JRHawk2003
- Start date
Democratic socialism. Hell, a guy even got Tucker Carlson to agree with its tenets.
I found this enlightening.
We don't have capitalism.
We have capitalism, except for the companies that figured out how to offload some of their overhead as socialism.
We have capitalism, except we decided to stop taxing the victors of that system. That allowed them to collect excess profits and push the tax burden onto the middle class.
And with those profits, and Citizen's United, we allowed the lightly taxed wealthy to accumulate assets that they and their families can never spend in their lifetimes, and have a greater say in the government, which locks out any realistic chance of reform.
We have capitalism, except for the companies that figured out how to offload some of their overhead as socialism.
We have capitalism, except we decided to stop taxing the victors of that system. That allowed them to collect excess profits and push the tax burden onto the middle class.
And with those profits, and Citizen's United, we allowed the lightly taxed wealthy to accumulate assets that they and their families can never spend in their lifetimes, and have a greater say in the government, which locks out any realistic chance of reform.
I had the misfortune of living in a Russian city for a couple of months in the late 90's during the months of November and December. Russia was about 7 years out from the collapse of the USSR. The temps while we were well below zero every day. The heat only worked a few hours a day. You could never count on having electricity and the hot water was luke warm. It got so cold the rugs would freeze to the floor. Everyone had candles handy for when the electricity went out at night. We met and hung around with another American family, an Air Force officer who was a surgeon. We went to a "children't home" an orphanage and he said the medical equipment was what he saw in books and museums from the 40's and 50's.
Moral of the story, if you think Marxism is better than capitalism, you need to move to a communist country and then get back to me.
Moral of the story, if you think Marxism is better than capitalism, you need to move to a communist country and then get back to me.
I agree we do not have true capitalism. The wealthy pay off the politicians and true market competition does not exist.
We're basically defaulted into Capitalism. Replay the last 300 years 1000x over and 999 we land on Capitalism.
Because we have really big brains and the ability to abstract.
The rules of Capitalism though, are pretty malleable and where the actual action is.
Because we have really big brains and the ability to abstract.
The rules of Capitalism though, are pretty malleable and where the actual action is.
Much of Capitalism is built around exploitation.
Uh no ... Hitler's NAZI Party was officially known as the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party. He was a socialist.
Nazi Party: Definition, Philosophies & Hitler - HISTORY
The Nazi Party was a political organization that ruled Germany through murderous, totalitarian means from 1933 to 1945 under the dictatorship of Adolf Hitler.
www.history.com
I did not know Bob Barr was born in Iowa City.
In 2012, I voted for Romney as I thought Obama was weak on China. I actually was the first in my family to vote for Obama, when he ran for US Senate in 2004 but thought he viewed the world as the faculty lounge at the University of Chicago and thought everything could be rationally discussed with other smart well meaning people. I view the world as a dark alley.
I did vote for Gary Johnson in 2016. After Trump insulted former POW's, I could not support him and thought Hillary was MIA on China and the issues facing the working class. Hillary was trying to win with identity politics, like Obama did. She was not after my vote.
In 2020, I voted for Biden and am glad I did.
LOL this has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen.Uh no ... Hitler's NAZI Party was officially known as the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party. He was a socialist.
Nazi Party: Definition, Philosophies & Hitler - HISTORY
The Nazi Party was a political organization that ruled Germany through murderous, totalitarian means from 1933 to 1945 under the dictatorship of Adolf Hitler.
From your own article:
Most problems could be solved, he explained, if communists and Jews were driven from the nation. His fiery speeches swelled the ranks of the Nazi Party, especially among young, economically disadvantaged Germans.
Hitler's ideology was based on race, not economic class. He may have used propaganda that appealed to workers to gain their support, but discarded it completely when he achieved power.
The Nazis didn’t create the term “National socialism” themselves; both the left-leaning Czech National Socialist Party and right-leaning Austrian National socialism movement predated the Nazi party in Germany. The term was added to the party’s title in 1920—turning the German Worker’s Party into the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. This, along with their manifesto, was done to appeal to the working classes.
Were the Nazis Socialists?
What’s the difference between National Socialists and every other kind of socialist?
www.britannica.com
Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month.
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Monopolistic capitalism is the only thing I have any real concern about. The Rockefeller and those like them in the late 1800s and early 1900s, basically squashed any and all competition and exploit workers.
I see it as common sense safeguards are needed, monopoly laws, some level of workers rights among other safety nets for citizens as key to clean up the darker side of what unfettered capitalism can bring.
But anyone who says we should go away from the tenants of capitalism are being too short sighted. There is no better alternative.
I see it as common sense safeguards are needed, monopoly laws, some level of workers rights among other safety nets for citizens as key to clean up the darker side of what unfettered capitalism can bring.
But anyone who says we should go away from the tenants of capitalism are being too short sighted. There is no better alternative.
We're getting close to that again unfortunately.
None of this matters to him - he's of the party where what they feel is more important than facts.LOL this has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen.
From your own article:
Most problems could be solved, he explained, if communists and Jews were driven from the nation. His fiery speeches swelled the ranks of the Nazi Party, especially among young, economically disadvantaged Germans.
Hitler's ideology was based on race, not economic class. He may have used propaganda that appealed to workers to gain their support, but discarded it completely when he achieved power.
The Nazis didn’t create the term “National socialism” themselves; both the left-leaning Czech National Socialist Party and right-leaning Austrian National socialism movement predated the Nazi party in Germany. The term was added to the party’s title in 1920—turning the German Worker’s Party into the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. This, along with their manifesto, was done to appeal to the working classes.
Were the Nazis Socialists?
What’s the difference between National Socialists and every other kind of socialist?www.britannica.com
Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month.
No Democrat is advocating the state seizing the means of production. Not one. Stop with the bogeyman nonsense. The society has a level of prosperity that allows for things like healthcare and taking care of the young and elderly. Don't act like that is some scary concept.
You cant just measure life in income. If you look at quality of life index or human development development index, we are not even in the top ten.
LOL. It's been debated since the end of WWII. For every source you site that he was not a socialist I can find a source that says he was. He no doubt seized control of the party through that ideal. I think we can agree on one thing ... he was a madman.LOL this has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen.
From your own article:
Most problems could be solved, he explained, if communists and Jews were driven from the nation. His fiery speeches swelled the ranks of the Nazi Party, especially among young, economically disadvantaged Germans.
Hitler's ideology was based on race, not economic class. He may have used propaganda that appealed to workers to gain their support, but discarded it completely when he achieved power.
The Nazis didn’t create the term “National socialism” themselves; both the left-leaning Czech National Socialist Party and right-leaning Austrian National socialism movement predated the Nazi party in Germany. The term was added to the party’s title in 1920—turning the German Worker’s Party into the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. This, along with their manifesto, was done to appeal to the working classes.
Were the Nazis Socialists?
What’s the difference between National Socialists and every other kind of socialist?www.britannica.com
Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month.
It is truly interesting how many people simply cannot extricate themselves from the silly, like 3rd-grade-thinking, either/or binary "understanding" of things. I alluded to it earlier in this thread, and the usual suspects just keep belaboring the same mindless arguments based on some weird notion that it's either capitalism or socialism, capitalism or marxism, capitalism or communism, America or Russia, America or Venezuela, America or Cuba, etc. Despite that our own history demonstrates better versions/iterations of capitalism (that mix in some of the other isms).
Maybe they're just trolls, trolling. But, damn, it really is something, this endless loop that seems to be completely uninterruptible.
What also is weird is how little people understand about the worldwide effects of the dominance of our current form of capitalism, how exploitative it is, and how capitalism doesn't just provide the structure to "create" wealth, it "creates" poverty, too, and always needs an exploitable poor in order to make the wealth "creatable".
Maybe they're just trolls, trolling. But, damn, it really is something, this endless loop that seems to be completely uninterruptible.
What also is weird is how little people understand about the worldwide effects of the dominance of our current form of capitalism, how exploitative it is, and how capitalism doesn't just provide the structure to "create" wealth, it "creates" poverty, too, and always needs an exploitable poor in order to make the wealth "creatable".
It hasn't been debated. The only people pushing it are right wing morons. Nice of you to self-identify.
Uh ... yes it has been debated. Ever been to Germany and talked to any Germans? I used to work with many of them and after a beer or two they will open up about WWII and Hitler. One of my co-workers from Mannheim, Germany lived out west of the Rhine River ... out past the vineyards. He opened up one night about his father in the the German military and Hitler's rise to power. Pretty fascinating hearing it first hand from someone who lived through it.
Might want to pick this book up ... not saying you have to believe it but it is an interesting read. You can't deny the Hitler quotes ...
Amazon product ASIN 1942612176
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Debated by whom? Yes he seized power through propaganda of appealing to workers but just used it as a method of exploitation. Socialism is about advancing the interests and power of the working class. The Nazi regime smashed the unions and lowered wages.
The nazis were vehement opponents of socialists, only adding ‘socialist’ to their party name to steal voters from the left. As soon as they assumed power, they illegalized advocating socialism, killed the socialists who had joined the party, and rounded up socialist citizens and sent them to the newly constructed concentration camps.
If you take the trouble to actually read Mein Kampf (as I have), in his own words - Hitler created his ‘National Socialism’ as a rightwing opposition to Marxist socialism.
We can agree he was a madman.
And the People's Republic of China is a republic. They are Republicans. DERP.Uh no ... Hitler's NAZI Party was officially known as the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party. He was a socialist.
Nazi Party: Definition, Philosophies & Hitler - HISTORY
The Nazi Party was a political organization that ruled Germany through murderous, totalitarian means from 1933 to 1945 under the dictatorship of Adolf Hitler.
Sorry, I didn't realize that when you said "it's been debated" you were talking about amongst you and your imaginary friends.
Godwin's Law.
Good Grief. It is hard to tell if its trolling.
I can't believe I have to type this, but I do; Universal Healthcare, accessible & high quality public education are not a communist or nazi plot. No one is proposing the government take over for Ford, GM, Wal-Mart, Kroger, Hy-Vee, Casey's.....or ANY OTHER BUSINESS.
Good Grief. It is hard to tell if its trolling.
I can't believe I have to type this, but I do; Universal Healthcare, accessible & high quality public education are not a communist or nazi plot. No one is proposing the government take over for Ford, GM, Wal-Mart, Kroger, Hy-Vee, Casey's.....or ANY OTHER BUSINESS.
Socialism works perfectly with small populations in which everyone has a vested interest in everyone else (i.e. hunter gatherers).
Psst, real socialism has never really been tried on the state level
I'm not denying Hitler morphed in to what you described above ... he seized power as a socialist though. As I stated in the original post, he was a socialist and his speeches bear that out. Glad we helped knock him off alongside the Brits and many others.
He was about as socialist as Trump was, claiming to care about working people while doing nothing to help them - just using them to further his own agenda and keep himself in power.
Berend Pauli was his name. I'm sure he has passed away by now. Would you like me to pin his place on Google Maps?
If it makes you feel better. It won't change the fact that your anecdote changes nothing and that no historians agree with your point.
Wasting your time. He sees the label, can’t see past it.
Like someone, JR maybe, earlier in the thread speaking to how frequently wealth and power finds ways socialize their costs while privatizing profits, effectively using “socialism” to “capitalize” — and, of course, this power LOVES that they can so easily scare people into believing anything remotely challenging “capitalism” is a fast-track to Venezuela or some such bullshit.
I mean, shit, just think of developers of exurban crap. Walmarts and the cul de sac depressing-ass cookie-cutter neighborhoods that eventually sprout up nearby. Want to know why this is profitable for Walmart and housing developers?
1. the land is cheap
2. costs of setting up business are externalized to taxpayers — from the urban core outward, like a damn siphon — from the egress roads and stoplights and other infrastructure, all this paid for by taxpayers — socialized costs
3. meanwhile, this investment outward is not only on the dime of the urban core, but at the expense of it. Investment outward paid for by the disinvestment inward, in simple terms
And people wonder what white flight is and why it is problematic or why exurban development is problematic. Wonder why this extraction and re-concentration of wealth leads to myriad problems for the neighborhoods and communities left in the wake. SMH.
And then, as the problems develop and then snowball, it becomes super-easy to (re)develop the “cultural” narratives so easily attached to the poor — and, as we well know, especially easily and readily attached to poor minority communities. All this, naturally, to the effect of increasing the value of this formerly cheap exurban land and further decrease the value of the land (urban core) left behind.
Then, and we’re starting to see this more and more now, once the urban core land becomes desirable again, it’s ripe for the picking by those who exploitatively gained from the “tricked up” wealth created at the expense of — and on the dime of — those in the urban core.
This is a nice model for those who either arguably like sociopaths don’t give a shit about the greater good in any way, shape or form, or simply can’t grasp how all this stuff works and relates. But then these are the same people who complain the most about crime and violence and broken homes and bad school systems. But the rub? They either don’t really care or they just can’t see how this stuff works.
But whatever. We, as a society, deserve our fate.
This thread is fascinating.
Where does Capitalism fall short and why?
F@ck you, Marxism is the worst.
Wut?
Hitler and the Nazi's were socialist.
Where does Capitalism fall short and why?
F@ck you, Marxism is the worst.
Wut?
Hitler and the Nazi's were socialist.
Don't take my word for it, here are some direct quotes from his speeches. Are you going to deny the holocaust next?
7 Quotes That Prove Adolf Hitler Was A Proud Socialist
#1. “I have learned a great deal from Marxism” … “as I do not hesitate to admit” Hitler may have publicly denounced Marxism, because of his war against the hated Soviet Union, but privately he always admitted that he was at heart a left-winger. He once said to Otto Wagener...
thelibertarianrepublic.com
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