Carl wins International Coach of the Year Award
- Thread starter Mr Roarke
- Start date
I don't see any error in the title. Did Carl NOT win the award? Hmmm.
I didn't click the link to read the article, 'cause I really don't care much 'bout Carl.
Very deserving of the award, although I think I would have chosen Pat Popolizio.
Agreed, I think you would have to give it to Cael this year too, but Popolizio would be a strong 2nd in my mind.
Dresser was a fairly close 2nd ...
1. Cael Sanderson (Penn State) 78 (6)
2. Kevin Dresser (Virginia Tech) 61 (3)
3. Pat Popolizio (N.C. State) 30
4. John Smith (Oklahoma State) 28
5. Tom Ryan (Ohio State) 22
6. Nick Mitchell (Grand View) 15 (1)
7. Rob Koll (Cornell) 6
8. Eric Keller (Wartburg) 5
9. Steve Costanzo (St. Cloud State) 4
10. Brian Smith (Missouri) 1
I forgot about Dresser...he would have been a solid 2nd choice too...VT did have a stronger NCAA than NC St...so that makes sense to me. I revise my opinion!! Popolizio down to 3rd, Dresser in 2nd.
Smith definitely deserves some KUDOS. He managed to take his team to a clear 2nd place finish while having two strong potential point scorers go down to season ending injuries. Although Klimara fell flat on his face, Heil, Collica, Smith, Rogers, Boyd and Weigel all showed substantial improvement throughout the season.
I'd like to see a formula where the recruiting rankings calculated into the end of season results in determining Coach of the Year.
Or maybe have a separate award for Recruiter of the Year.
Or maybe have a separate award for Recruiter of the Year.
The Recruiter of the Year is usually honored on a Saturday night in March when he and his team get to pose with the national championship trophy.
Reminds me of this great story Kevin Dresser told to a reporter from the Cedar Rapids Gazette when Gable retired:
“My senior year in (high school) Gable and his wife visited my home (in Humboldt) while recruiting me to the U of I. They stayed overnight and they slept in my bed ... and then I signed at the U of I the next morning at my breakfast table before school. None of the above was a recruiting violation back in 1981. Most of it would be today!”
Reminds me of the good old days when the Recruiter of the Year worked in Iowa City.
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Seems like a great topic for the Penn State Board.
He was just a two timer in high school, you can't win championships by recruiting guys like that.
I would of picked John Smith for finishing second at Nationals for bring his replacement team there.
Gotta give credit to Cael, his team was the team to beat all year and they backed it up all year long. If I'm voting it looks like this.
1. Cael Sanderson - 5th Championship in 6 years....yada yada yada
2. Nick Mitchell - 5th Championship in a row!
3. Pat Popolizio - for making a program out of NC State
4. Tom Ryan - lost both Stiebers and pulled the redshirts at the right time. Well done
5. Kevin Dresser - If he wasn't such a freaking "orange" I might consider placing him higher, but nah
1. Cael Sanderson - 5th Championship in 6 years....yada yada yada
2. Nick Mitchell - 5th Championship in a row!
3. Pat Popolizio - for making a program out of NC State
4. Tom Ryan - lost both Stiebers and pulled the redshirts at the right time. Well done
5. Kevin Dresser - If he wasn't such a freaking "orange" I might consider placing him higher, but nah
2016 NCAA Lineups (# of state titles)
PSU (23 individual state titles)
Iowa (22 individual state titles)
PSU (23 individual state titles)
Iowa (22 individual state titles)
It's interesting that Dan Gable won 17 straight Big Ten Championships and 12 national titles before he was even named Big Ten coach of the year.
You need to go to work for the Ted Cruz campaign on their Fun With Facts Committee. Diceman, this sure looks smells like a HurricaneWrestling post.
Was probably the extra vote he got from PSU joining the conference that year that got him over the hump
I'm working on individual points per state title as we speak. Got plenty of time since I'm a front runner I jumped ship on the Cruz campaign loooooong ago....
What exactly is your point here?
If you're implying recruiting parity, than you can gtfo
Actually, I was wrong since Grothus & Nevills failed to qualify. So, the totals are PSU-20 titles, Iowa-21 titles.
Yes, that is a very Cruz-like twisting of the facts.
Here is another way to look at it:
I will give you that Zain should have had 3 titles, so I will group him in the category of 3+ titles.
PSU had 6 guys there (with Zain included) that won 3+ titles. They scored 112.5 points for an average of 18.75 points.
Nico-21
Gulibon-3
Zain-28.5
Nolf-22
Nickal-18
McIntosh-20
Iowa had 3 guys there with 3+ titles (all were 4-timers). They scored 55.5 points for an average of 18.5 points.
Gilman-21.5
Clark-17
Sorenson-17
Fun with facts...
Yes, that is a very Cruz-like twisting of the facts.
Here is another way to look at it:
I will give you that Zain should have had 3 titles, so I will group him in the category of 3+ titles.
PSU had 6 guys there (with Zain included) that won 3+ titles. They scored 112.5 points for an average of 18.75 points.
Nico-21
Gulibon-3
Zain-28.5
Nolf-22
Nickal-18
McIntosh-20
Iowa had 3 guys there with 3+ titles (all were 4-timers). They scored 55.5 points for an average of 18.5 points.
Gilman-21.5
Clark-17
Sorenson-17
Fun with facts...
Yea...because he had to sit out a year due to transfer issues
Although state championships are a great thing, WHERE they happened is undeniably more important. Gilman, Clark and Sorenson have proven to be great but I doubt even the most ardent Hawkeye fans would expect them to have been 4Xers if they wrestled in PA or CA(which is where 5 of the 6 PSU guys you listed are from).
Yes, exactly.
And of course diceman knows this, and it is very hurricanesque... he makes a career on themat forums with selective stats and information like that.
Iowa has 3 million population and 3 classes of state champions.
PA has ~ 13 million, with just 2 classes.
CA has ~40 million , with only 1 class.
Counting #s of state championships and ignoring where they happened is silly.
And of course diceman knows this, and it is very hurricanesque... he makes a career on themat forums with selective stats and information like that.
Iowa has 3 million population and 3 classes of state champions.
PA has ~ 13 million, with just 2 classes.
CA has ~40 million , with only 1 class.
Counting #s of state championships and ignoring where they happened is silly.
If you are going to look down your nose at my stats and call it silly, at least use a RELEVANT statistic:
2014/15 participation stats
Iowa 6,424 wrestlers
PA 9,860 wrestlers
CA 26,374 wrestlers
This is really the only relevant statistic - comparing populations does nothing. Obviously, the entire population of the state of IA or PA is not eligible to compete in high school athletics. Secondly, there is a difference in sport selection/competition in states. A kid going to HS in Iowa has a different landscape of high school athletics than a kid in PA or CA. For instance, there are almost 10,000 kids who swim for their HS teams in PA, a little over 1,000 in IA; over 6,000 that play varsity lacrosse in PA, 0 in IA; over 20,000 soccer players in PA, 6,000 in IA; etc.
BTW, it IS silly to use # of HS championships without regards to the state they were won in. I just thought it was interesting that the majority of the points scored by Iowa and PSU came from their wrestlers that had won 3 or more HS championships (if you include Zain as 3). And the next highest point scorers were Burak - who is probably a 2x champ and 3x finalist if he didn't miss his junior year in HS due to injury; and Conaway - who was a point away from being a 2x champ and 3x medalist.
The "woe is me" Iowa is such a small state argument is weak. There are plenty of wrestlers in the state, and plenty of good ones because of the amount of college opportunities that are available in IA (which increases the likelihood of them getting good coaching and training).
How do they break PA into the 2 divisions? Are they by schools size? Does the smaller one have more schools? Iowa does a great job trying to make each division equally hard on an individual level. Just wondering how PA does it.
These numbers are probably pretty fair to go by.
Iowa 6,424 wrestlers
PA 9,860 wrestlers
CA 26,374 wrestlers
I think the true level of difficulty is probably somewhere between those numbers and the population.
These numbers are probably pretty fair to go by.
Iowa 6,424 wrestlers
PA 9,860 wrestlers
CA 26,374 wrestlers
I think the true level of difficulty is probably somewhere between those numbers and the population.
Small schools only in AA in PA - the cutoff is somewhere around 300 for male HS enrollment. It is split roughly down the middle so there are an equal number of schools in AAA and AA. The largest HS male enrollments can be over 1500, so it makes for quite a disparity in the the amount of wrestlers in each class.
At the very top, the wrestlers in each classification are very good. A match between the AAA and AA champs (which they use to do) would go to AAA in most years, but would be very competitive.
The difference between the two classifications comes in the depth. A kid with an AAA medal is almost always a hammer that can compete anywhere. Some weights in AA, the kids that are placing at the bottom of the stands not so much. And qualifying for the state tournament is a BIG difference. If you are any good, you are making it to states in AA. And sometimes if you are only a little better than average. In AAA every year there are medalists and hammers being left home in March. Probably only the NW region (where the power resides in AA because there are many more small schools and no big population centers) is it an easier path to Hershey in general. Of course there are exceptions, but the other regions can be a death struggle in the last qualification matches.
At the very top, the wrestlers in each classification are very good. A match between the AAA and AA champs (which they use to do) would go to AAA in most years, but would be very competitive.
The difference between the two classifications comes in the depth. A kid with an AAA medal is almost always a hammer that can compete anywhere. Some weights in AA, the kids that are placing at the bottom of the stands not so much. And qualifying for the state tournament is a BIG difference. If you are any good, you are making it to states in AA. And sometimes if you are only a little better than average. In AAA every year there are medalists and hammers being left home in March. Probably only the NW region (where the power resides in AA because there are many more small schools and no big population centers) is it an easier path to Hershey in general. Of course there are exceptions, but the other regions can be a death struggle in the last qualification matches.
Actually, the SW region in AA is unreal when it comes to level of competition: ALL of Pittsburgh and the WPIAL, district 5 with schools like Bedford and Chestnut Ridge, and district 6, which is basically the largest district in the state in terms of land expanse and number of teams, all of Altoona, Johnstown, State College, and the rural towns with traditional powerhouse teams like Tyrone, West Branch, etc...
lol...you guys are funny. But then Ed ended up going on to a small school in New Jersey you might have heard of called Blair Academy and ends up being #1 at his weight class.
<Penn State fan beats his chest>: This Zain Retherford is just going to be a monster in college!!! PA's second string can beat U.S. All Star teams.
Iowa Guy: Key to Cael's success is recruiting and have a very talented pool to choose from.
PSU Guy: What are you talking about...Cael is the best at developing!! Zain barely knew how to put his wrestling shoes on and then Cael did a bunch of cool stuff and made him a great wrestler in four months.
I mean really, wait until Mark Hall gets on the program. He might be successful and beat some senior level guys or something.
