Clemson coach complains Big12 is overrated and manipulating NET rankings

[Mountain Man Hawk]

He specifically mentions ISU as a team that is overrated based on beating up a bunch of terrible teams in the non-conference.

The gist of the article is that a bunch of Big12 teams played non-conference schedules full of below 300 ranked teams and beat them badly which boosted their NET ratings and then once they get to conference play they don’t drop because they are playing other teams that also have inflated NET ratings.

For the record I think ISU is a good team and the Big12 is a good conference, just posting the article for discussion.

I also remember a season in the past when many Iowa fans felt like we were unfairly punished in computer rankings because the non-conference schedule had a bunch of very low-ranked teams. But maybe that was before the NET and the algorithms were different then?

Clemson coach Brad Brownell frustrated Big 12 was able to 'manipulate' NET rankings

Clemson basketball coach Brad Brownell is frustrated with the way the Big 12 has been able to manipulate the NET rankings.

www.on3.com

 

[Mohawkeye]

Big 12 looks pretty tough to me. If anyone is overrated I'd guess it would be the Big, outside of Purdue and Illinois there aren't any top 30 teams.

 

[cmhawks99]

Big 12 looks pretty tough to me. If anyone is overrated I'd guess it would be the Big, outside of Purdue and Illinois there aren't any top 30 teams.

I’m not convinced Illinois is that good?

 

[ObeseMuffins]

IDK, the two Big 12 teams we played. We got absolutely bullied.

 

[relishingwinning18]

Big 12 looks pretty tough to me. If anyone is overrated I'd guess it would be the Big, outside of Purdue and Illinois there aren't any top 30 teams.

Uh, the term "overrated" has a key word in it "rated". Therefore, how can the Big 10 be "overrated" if there aren't any teams rated that high?

 

[Mohawkeye]

Uh, the term "overrated" has a key word in it "rated". Therefore, how can the Big 10 be "overrated" if there aren't any teams rated that high?

We’re talking about as a conference, not individual teams.

Conferences at Bracketologists

bracketologists.com

 

[relishingwinning18]

We’re talking about as a conference, not individual teams.

Conferences at Bracketologists

bracketologists.com

So we have the 2nd highest average NET, but are predicted to get in less teams than the Big 12, SEC, or Mountain West, and the same as the ACC and Big East. Again, I don't see how anyone thinks the Big Ten is good to be "overrating" them, including most fans of the Big Ten.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

I’m not convinced Illinois is that good?

I’m not convinced Purdue’s that good either.

 

[SI_NYC]

He specifically mentions ISU as a team that is overrated based on beating up a bunch of terrible teams in the non-conference.

The gist of the article is that a bunch of Big12 teams played non-conference schedules full of below 300 ranked teams and beat them badly which boosted their NET ratings and then once they get to conference play they don’t drop because they are playing other teams that also have inflated NET ratings.

For the record I think ISU is a good team and the Big12 is a good conference, just posting the article for discussion.

I also remember a season in the past when many Iowa fans felt like we were unfairly punished in computer rankings because the non-conference schedule had a bunch of very low-ranked teams. But maybe that was before the NET and the algorithms were different then?

Clemson coach Brad Brownell frustrated Big 12 was able to 'manipulate' NET rankings

Clemson basketball coach Brad Brownell is frustrated with the way the Big 12 has been able to manipulate the NET rankings.

www.on3.com

I harbor some reservations regarding his viewpoint. After tuning into a portion of the ISU Houston game, it became evident to me that both teams were performing at a remarkably elevated level compared to what I typically observe in the Big Ten. Their prowess on the court truly reflected a higher caliber of play.

I just threw up in my mouth a bit writing that.

 

[noStemsnoSTICKS]

There's no greater burden than expectations.

We'll see what happens in March.

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

ESPN has picked up the story...

Bubble Watch: Is the Big 12 really manipulating the NET rankings? (ESPN+)

 

[cmhawks99]

I’m not convinced Purdue’s that good either.

Yeah, honestly, I agree, I almost added them except they have only lost three games and when they’re shooting well they are pretty hard to handle with Edney inside… I just don’t think the big 10 is very good at all!

 

[LukaDuka]

So we have the 2nd highest average NET, but are predicted to get in less teams than the Big 12, SEC, or Mountain West, and the same as the ACC and Big East. Again, I don't see how anyone thinks the Big Ten is good to be "overrating" them, including most fans of the Big Ten.

I live in Mountain West country and have watched a lot of their games. They have a good group of teams this year, but I'd be surprised if the committee gives a non P5 conference 6 bids into the NCAA's. My guess is 4 bids at most. Hoping they leave out Nevada & Stevie Alfraud.

BTW Boise State has Larry Eustacey on staff. They showed him on screen with his hair greased back & wearing a pony tail. Not a good look. Maybe he's back on the sauce?

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

I live in Mountain West country and have watched a lot of their games. They have a good group of teams this year, but I'd be surprised if the committee gives a non P5 conference 6 bids into the NCAA's. My guess is 4 bids at most. Hoping they leave out Nevada & Stevie Alfraud.

BTW Boise State has Larry Eustacey on staff. They showed him on screen with his hair greased back & wearing a pony tail. Not a good look. Maybe he's back on the sauce?

Mountain West is a damn solid conference.

They deserve 7 teams imo.

UNLV might be the best team in the conference.

They just had those players out for half the season.

 

[LukaDuka]

Mountain West is a damn solid conference.

They deserve 7 teams imo.

UNLV might be the best team in the conference.

They just had those players out for half the season.

Maybe so, but historically the committee's have favored the P5 conferences. We will see selection Sunday.

And UNLV's overall record of 17-10 isn't helping their cause.

 

[HawkBall23]

As someone who tries to watch as much/many of the postseason conference tourneys as possible, the Mountain West is usually one of the better ones each year.

 

[LukaDuka]

As someone who tries to watch as much/many of the postseason conference tourneys as possible, the Mountain West is usually one of the better ones each year.

well they did make it to the natty championship game last year.... so yeah. But San Diego State seems to win most of the conference tournaments over the past 10 years.

 

[HawkBall23]

well they did make it to the natty championship game last year.... so yeah. But San Diego State seems to win most of the conference tournaments over the past 10 years.

Guess I didn't realize that SDSU had such a dominant lock on it, although I should have.

Just seems like there's always a handful of good games every MWCT.


Either that, or I'm just a whore for any and all postseason conference tourney action. (at least until Iowa loses in the BTT, anyways)

 

[cmhawks99]

Guess I didn't realize that SDSU had such a dominant lock on it, although I should have.

Just seems like there's always a handful of good games every MWCT.


Either that, or I'm just a whore for any and all postseason conference tourney action. (at least until Iowa loses in the BTT, anyways)

MWC is a solid conference all the way around, football and basketball both.

 

[LukaDuka]

MWC is a solid conference all the way around, football and basketball both.

Solid yes, but not a P5 conference. Take a look at the top 5 teams and their non conference schedule. Some real patsies. Yes, they do play and beat some P5 teams, but overall some pretty weak scheduling in basketball. And the bottom of the conference isn't close to as good as P5 conference bottom dwellers. Just saying (without looking it up) the strength of schedule doesn't seem as strong. The top 4-6 teams probably deserve bids to NCAA this year, but historically it hasn't happened. More like only 2 bids at best in the past. I believe they'll get 4 teams in this year.

 

[cmhawks99]

4 for sure and I wouldn’t begrudge your overarching point. But SDSU has been a pretty strong team for 20ish years. And CSU, New Mexico, UNLV, Nevada some, have some good history…

 

[goodbyebobby]

I live in Mountain West country and have watched a lot of their games. They have a good group of teams this year, but I'd be surprised if the committee gives a non P5 conference 6 bids into the NCAA's. My guess is 4 bids at most. Hoping they leave out Nevada & Stevie Alfraud.

BTW Boise State has Larry Eustacey on staff. They showed him on screen with his hair greased back & wearing a pony tail. Not a good look. Maybe he's back on the sauce?

Sounds like crazy Larry found herb.

 

[blubberhawk]

Big 12 looks pretty tough to me. If anyone is overrated I'd guess it would be the Big, outside of Purdue and Illinois there aren't any top 30 teams.

How can you be overated when you are not overated? Nobody says the BIG is best or close to best.

 

[fezzador]

How can you be overated when you are not overated? Nobody says the BIG is best or close to best.

Anyone who did their homework before November would not have been high on the B1G. Purdue is a Top 15 team masquerading as a Top 5 team. Iowa, Northwestern and Nebraska are mediocre teams taking advantage of a soft conference schedule. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the B1G is not represented in the second weekend.

 

[Cydkar]

He specifically mentions ISU as a team that is overrated based on beating up a bunch of terrible teams in the non-conference.

The gist of the article is that a bunch of Big12 teams played non-conference schedules full of below 300 ranked teams and beat them badly which boosted their NET ratings and then once they get to conference play they don’t drop because they are playing other teams that also have inflated NET ratings.

For the record I think ISU is a good team and the Big12 is a good conference, just posting the article for discussion.

I also remember a season in the past when many Iowa fans felt like we were unfairly punished in computer rankings because the non-conference schedule had a bunch of very low-ranked teams. But maybe that was before the NET and the algorithms were different then?

Clemson coach Brad Brownell frustrated Big 12 was able to 'manipulate' NET rankings

Clemson basketball coach Brad Brownell is frustrated with the way the Big 12 has been able to manipulate the NET rankings.

www.on3.com

Clemson basketball fell to Notre Dame 69-62 Saturday night at the Purcell Pavilion.

 

[ISUBryceC]

I actually looked up the SoR (strength of record) ratings, which is a rating designed to just rate the quality of the wins against your schedule for all of the Big 12 teams. So it doesn't care about beating bad teams by a lot, and it more closely aligns with tourney seeding.

Average rating for Big 12 teams went from ~46 to ~44, it got better. ISU was actually higher rated in that metric. Sometimes things are just good.

 

[BioHawk]

Uh, the term "overrated" has a key word in it "rated". Therefore, how can the Big 10 be "overrated" if there aren't any teams rated that high?

It's yet to be seen this year but the last several seasons the Big 10 has consistently gotten 8-9 teams in the tournament to only have one team make the second weekend. But is that overrated? Or just a conference that has a bunch of the top 32-64 teams in it?

 

[fezzador]

It's yet to be seen this year but the last several seasons the Big 10 has consistently gotten 8-9 teams in the tournament to only have one team make the second weekend. But is that overrated? Or just a conference that has a bunch of the top 32-64 teams in it?

The B1G is well, "B1G"-heavy. Outside of the NBA, I don't see any other league plugging 6'4 to 6'6 swingmen at the point while 5'11 to 6'2 jackrabbits dance circles around them. Lackluster backcourt play has plagued the conference for several years running; this is often at the expense of small-conference schools whose players wouldn't have gotten anything other than a PWO offer from most conference members.

 

[Iafootballfan]

Iowa State's AD publicly confirmed on KXNO they scheduled this way on purpose, it's no secret that Big 12 schools had intent to position themselves this way and they were smart to do so if your goal is the best seed possible in March.

That said - it is a shame that the computers (NET) are changing the way AD"s are willing to schedule, teams are no longer wiling to play "lose-lose" situations that could damage their resume in March. Just look at why the Big 4 Classic with Drake and UNI is now in the past - Iowa/ISU don't gain anything from beating them but take a Q2 or Q3 loss if they lose.

 

[Cydkar]

Iowa State's AD publicly confirmed on KXNO they scheduled this way on purpose, it's no secret that Big 12 schools had intent to position themselves this way and they were smart to do so if your goal is the best seed possible in March.

That said - it is a shame that the computers (NET) are changing the way AD"s are willing to schedule, teams are no longer wiling to play "lose-lose" situations that could damage their resume in March. Just look at why the Big 4 Classic with Drake and UNI is now in the past - Iowa/ISU don't gain anything from beating them but take a Q2 or Q3 loss if they lose.

It sucks. I don't know how to fix it but hope they can do something to bring about better non-con games.

 

[Underscore2]

The out of conf SOS of lots of Big Twelve teams is in the 300s. They aren't fooling anyone, really. That metric stands out and should result in lower seeding all things equal.

 

[Georgia_Hawk]

The key takeaway here is that it is embarrassing that the BIG is not one of the top 2 conferences in basketball given the money and resources available.

 

[herkhatescy]

He specifically mentions ISU as a team that is overrated based on beating up a bunch of terrible teams in the non-conference.

The gist of the article is that a bunch of Big12 teams played non-conference schedules full of below 300 ranked teams and beat them badly which boosted their NET ratings and then once they get to conference play they don’t drop because they are playing other teams that also have inflated NET ratings.

For the record I think ISU is a good team and the Big12 is a good conference, just posting the article for discussion.

I also remember a season in the past when many Iowa fans felt like we were unfairly punished in computer rankings because the non-conference schedule had a bunch of very low-ranked teams. But maybe that was before the NET and the algorithms were different then?

Clemson coach Brad Brownell frustrated Big 12 was able to 'manipulate' NET rankings

Clemson basketball coach Brad Brownell is frustrated with the way the Big 12 has been able to manipulate the NET rankings.

www.on3.com

They'll be out early in the NCAA tournament.

 

[BirdistheWord]

I feel like it is a down year for the B1G (Captain Obvious) largely due to very few high caliber teams. Except for Michigan there also aren’t what I would call BAD teams. I don’t ever remember this much parody. A lot of NIT and barely in the NCAA Tourney teams.